Who's to blame? Her or the disease?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Wow, I can deal with the aggression and the neglect. That's normal to me. But I spoke to my mother recently over the phone, which I haven't done in

maybe five years - and she said the following:

"I'm so proud of you for keeping with university even after all you've had to deal with."

WHAT

So of course that throws me for a loop and all of a sudden there's this forgiving side of me which comes out of nowhere and suddenly it's thinking "Oh wow I have my mom back! Maybe we can be mother/daughter again!"

I am so used to feeling bitter, scared, angry. And all of a sudden I just feel like "MOM! YOU'RE BACK!"

I was shaking from the emotion. It felt like all of a sudden the clouds opened and there was sunshine.

I talked to my therapist and she said it was a younger part of me, maybe from the time when my mother abandoned me, that was still longing for her to return. She suggested that the fact that I have such a willingness to connect with her still means that I haven't actually accepted the pain she's inflicted on me.

And I think she might be right. I talk a lot about her disorder now, about how her disorder makes her do this and makes her do that. It basically transfers the responsibility of the hurt to the disorder and I avoid having to deal with the fact that my mother abused me. The real person. My real mother. There were reasons that were out of her control sometimes, but the end result was that I was abused by my own mother and sorely neglected.

How do you accept that you were hurt by your mother, if your mother couldn't help it because she was sick? Who's to blame? Who am I angry at?

[skelly_bean]

Wow, I can deal with the aggression and the neglect. That's normal to me. But I spoke to my mother recently over the phone, which I haven't done in

maybe five years - and she said the following:

"I'm so proud of you for keeping with university even after all you've had to deal with."

WHAT

So of course that throws me for a loop and all of a sudden there's this forgiving side of me which comes out of nowhere and suddenly it's thinking "Oh wow I have my mom back! Maybe we can be mother/daughter again!"

I am so used to feeling bitter, scared, angry. And all of a sudden I just feel like "MOM! YOU'RE BACK!"

I was shaking from the emotion. It felt like all of a sudden the clouds opened and there was sunshine.

I talked to my therapist and she said it was a younger part of me, maybe from the time when my mother abandoned me, that was still longing for her to return. She suggested that the fact that I have such a willingness to connect with her still means that I haven't actually accepted the pain she's inflicted on me.

And I think she might be right. I talk a lot about her disorder now, about how her disorder makes her do this and makes her do that. It basically transfers the responsibility of the hurt to the disorder and I avoid having to deal with the fact that my mother abused me. The real person. My real mother. There were reasons that were out of her control sometimes, but the end result was that I was abused by my own mother and sorely neglected.

How do you accept that you were hurt by your mother, if your mother couldn't help it because she was sick? Who's to blame? Who am I angry at?

[Drained Daughter]

Hi Skelly Bean, 

Sorry for the long post, but I've gone back and forth on this issue a lot.  I think overall, I feel like this is a question without a satisfying answer.  I think it is impossible to tell how much of our BPDs behavior is completely out of their own control due to their impairment and how much is their own refusal to exercise whatever self control they do have.  I definitely think there is a mix because when I work my ass of to set a very firm boundary I do see some improvement in my mom's interaction with me (so to some extent she has some control, sometimes).

However, I now try not to focus on this question too much anymore, because it makes my head hurt and triggers a lot guilt.  Instead, I'm working on shifting my focus to trying to make sure that I figure out what I want, need and what I can tolerate in my interactions with her.  In other words, trying to treat my relationship with my mother more like my relationships with other people.  When she is bad to me, letting her know and protecting myself though both expressing my anger (rather than hiding it) and through taking the time and space I need and overall not feeling bound to fulfill her needs.  I realize that as a result of her disorder, I can't rely on her to treat me well or to protect me from herself.

I agree with you that sometimes the most disorienting thing is when they are being nice to you.  Sadly, I now see this more as the up-side of their black and white thinking and am losing my illusions that this means I have my "real mom back"  because the reality is that my real mom is inherently emotionally unstable and will swing back and forth between idolizing me (more than I deserve) and demonizing me (also more than I deserve).  So I try to be glad for the good times--but not expect them to last or be hurt when she has an inevitable mood swing.

When we are children I think we try to deal with the BPD parent on whom we are depending by our own form of splitting.  When she is nice, that's our real mom.  When she is an evil abusive bhit, that is not really her.  For me learning about the disease has taught me that the real mom is always both.  It is my job to accept this fact, not fantasize that it will change and decide what this means for my willingness to stay in a relationship with her (this can also change day to day and week to week and include periods of low/no contact).

Again, to me, it goes back to that maxim, her problems existed long before I came onto the scene; if I didn't cause her problem, then I can't fix her problem.  If she could have changed who she was, she would have done that long ago to prevent the damage that her disease has done to her.

Her pattern of behavior has shown me who she is.  The question for me is what can I/can't I live with.  Rather than expecting that she will make a grand recovery.

I wish you the best with this!   

[GreenMango]

That's a good question. 

People are responsible for their behavior.  The disorder does impair taking responsibility.

This doesn't mean you can't be upset by it though.  Maybe its more about how to handle it from here so its doesn't impact you as much.

I know I needed to start to look at my boundaries?  We have a lot of workshops on things like this.  Book recommendations too.  Have you had a chance to check them out?

[Cordelia]

This is such a hard issue... .  I think because it's rooted in a hope of the BPD's recovery.  If their behavior is their fault, you can be angry at them... .  but they also have the power to change.  If it's not their fault, then you can love and forgive them and even stay in a relationship with them if you're willing to accept being treated this way forever. 

I think the truth is that, as hard as I wrestled with this issue myself for such a long time - it really doesn't matter.  If there is a burning hot cast iron skillet on the stove, does it matter what made it hot?  Electric heat or gas?  The relevant fact is it's hot, and it will burn you if you don't handle it with appropriate precautions. 

Figuring out who was to blame was for me a way of denying the reality of who my mom is and trying to avoid responsibility for protecting myself.  It didn't do me any good.  At this point I still don't know who's more to blame, the disorder or my mom's choices, and I like to come down more on the side of "it's a disease, she can't help it," so I can think better of her.  But I'm no longer expecting her or anyone else to protect me, and I fully expect her to lash out and be cruel when it's convenient for her to do so, because that's who she is and how she's always acted for as long as I've known her, and i have no reason to expect that to change. 

If possible use this moment to reconnect with the part of yourself that still wants your mom to come back and be the mom you always wanted.  The irrational part that doesn't care how unrealistic it is or how damaging it would be to stay in this situation, she just wants her mom and doesn't care about anything else.  That part of yourself isn't bad or wrong even though it leads you into damaging decisions.  It's just young and desperate for love.  Give it the love and reassurance it needs so much and promise to take good care of it from now on, with the benefit of your adult wisdom and wider perspective.    

[skelly_bean]

Drained Daughter,

When she is nice, that's our real mom.  When she is an evil abusive bhit, that is not really her.  For me learning about the disease has taught me that the real mom is always both.  It is my job to accept this fact, not fantasize that it will change and decide what this means for my willingness to stay in a relationship with her

yes yes and yes. This is exactly it. I can't reconcile that both parts of her are HER. I've never even questioned my belief that my real mother is the good one and the other part is just something else altogether that I don't want inside of her.

I will talk about this with my therapist. This is a great reframing of the situation. Thank you!

GreenMango,

I know I needed to start to look at my boundaries?  We have a lot of workshops on things like this.  Book recommendations too.  Have you had a chance to check them out?

Good idea. I will have a read. I haven't started working on boundaries yet. My boundaries are basically that I don't want to have contact with her because it's too hard to. I would like to feel like I have sturdy boundaries that defend me other than NC.


if possible use this moment to reconnect with the part of yourself that still wants your mom to come back and be the mom you always wanted.  The irrational part that doesn't care how unrealistic it is or how damaging it would be to stay in this situation, she just wants her mom and doesn't care about anything else.  That part of yourself isn't bad or wrong even though it leads you into damaging decisions.  It's just young and desperate for love.  Give it the love and reassurance it needs so much and promise to take good care of it from now on, with the benefit of your adult wisdom and wider perspective.

Yes, I wonder if I'll always have that naive side to me. It is both frustrating, and also nice - because I don't feel bitter when that inner child is ready to accept her mom back. I will try to mother myself a bit more during this rough period. Thanks for reminding me to do that.

[GreenMango]

I get the feeling that it one part acceptance of what is, one part grief to mourn what was and wasn't and one part boundaries. 

Not easy at all - and a different way to approach things.

Be kind to yourself.

[simplesimon]

Wow... .  this is like saying "nature vs. nuture"

skelly_bean I have to say that it's awesome that you discussing things with your BPDm I envy that a little.

[Drained Daughter]

Thanks for starting this excellent thread.  I think it is a fascinating issue and a question that most of us come to at some point. 

It brings up so many of our interrelated issues in dealing with a BPD family member: anger, guilt, desire for change, a desire to reclaim and acknowledge the good times, a desire for a more peaceful existence, and grief. 

I think for me turning this question over and over without being able to come to a resolution on how much to blame/pity her actually served as a great springboard for me to start focusing on my own behavior.  This includes for me mucking through the grief and mourning (which are so hard to face) for the relationship I couldn't have with my mom and that I maybe never really had.

I've really enjoyed hearing everyones thoughts on this.

[Claire]

This is a huge question and something I struggle with a lot as well. I have enjoyed reading what all of you have said here.

I've been thinking about your last question, skelly_bean.

How do you accept that you were hurt by your mother, if your mother couldn't help it because she was sick? Who's to blame? Who am I angry at?

I've done quite a bit of reading/working through 12 step stuff, so I'm thinking blame rests with the higher power... . ?  Just a half-baked thought. Any one else gone down this route and was it helpful?

[nomom4me]

Knowing that certain behaviors are typical of a person with BPD makes it less difficult for me to understand why my mom acts the way she does, but she is responsible for her actions.  My family has experienced lots of loss, we lots allot of relatives very suddenly when I was a kid.  I've been in and out of therapy most of my life, my mom never sticks with therapy and makes fun of it - she has made fun of me for having "mental problems".  I'm sensitive, she's the one with a disorder.  I can't feel sympathy for someone who is so nasty about seeking therapy.  My mom claims to have memory problems, they show up conveniently when she is asked to be accountable for something she said/did and of course she does not get medical help for her "memory problems".  When she tries to pull a waif act about her memory I flat out tell her that as a person who spends much of my time and money on medical problems I cannot give her a pass for a untreated medical problem.

I made limitations on email contact and she has reacted by leaving me out of family events.  My ideal situation would be her in treatment, as she lies more often than she tells the truth I would be more comfortable with a situation where I could join or phone in to a therapy session once a month (or less) but she would need to be in treatment weekly and actually stick with it for a number of months for that scenario to be more than a dream.  As she makes fun of me for going to therapy, I don't see that happening.  She hates boundaries, and everyone in her life who goes to therapy is told to set boundaries with her - so boundaries and therapy have become dirty words in her head.

[Cordelia]

How do you accept that you were hurt by your mother, if your mother couldn't help it because she was sick? Who's to blame? Who am I angry at?

I've done quite a bit of reading/working through 12 step stuff, so I'm thinking blame rests with the higher power... . ?  Just a half-baked thought. Any one else gone down this route and was it helpful?

I've been thinking about this too.  For me the higher power route just led me to replace generalized anger with specific anger, which I'm not sure was helpful.  I was trying to avoid being angry directly at my mom, but then I just became angry at everything! 

What's led me to greater acceptance was actually getting away from the whole who is to blame question and just focusing on the fact that it DID happen, whether I or anyone else wanted it to or not.  Lots of things in life happen despite the fact that no one specifically caused them or wanted things to happen that way.  Weather, mechanical breakdowns, happenstantial meetings... .   Sometimes these things are a great blessing, sometimes they're a tragedy, much of the time they don't matter much one way or another.  But life is to a larger degree than we think pretty much outside of our or any other individual's conscious control.  Focusing on who caused it leads to questions of blame and control (is it my fault?  did I screw up?  was it HER fault?  what exactly did she do wrong?) which just aren't very helpful.  No one is perfect, and we often don't understand another person's situation well enough to really judge their behavior fairly and accurately.  To me, acceptance isn't "well she hurt me but she can't help it... . " it's more like "I was seriously hurt by this person, therefore I am going to X" (address the past with them, avoid them in the future, whatever).  And even more helpfully, "because I was so badly hurt by this type of behavior, today I tend to Y" (avoid people who engage in that type of behavior, actually seek out that behavior in order to try to handle it better this time, or because it's comfortable and what I know, whatever your situation is).  Taking the FACT that the injury happened and it had an effect on you as a starting point is IMO more helpful than focusing on who's responsible for causing the injury, because it gets out of the past and into the present.  Who is to blame can be a way to avoid what is happening right now by replacing it with a focus on the past, who did what to whom and why.  But the past really doesn't matter in and of itself, it only matters to the extent that it is still having an effect on you and how you feel today.  So put the focus on THAT - how you feel about what happened to you.  Because that is something that is happening now, and something that you CAN control to some extent.  You can change bitterness to acceptance and seeking revenge on "the enemy" to seeking peace for yourself, with enough patience, time, and love.  Being an avenging angel, choosing between the martyrdom of forgiving what really isn't forgivable and the heavy burden of being the enforcer of justice, isn't a healthy role.  No matter which you choose it's bound to be unfair - either you're being unfair to yourself, sweeping your pain and your experience and personal history under the rug and saying it doesn't matter, or you're being unfair to the other person, acting like you are a higher power yourself, with infinite knowledge and insight and the ability to stand over them and say you screwed up and hurt me and there is no excuse for what you did.  Better to just be a human being, acknowledge that you're hurt and angry but you don't know the whole situation and why it occurred, and accept that your pain is real and continues to have an effect on you and your relationship with your abuser to this day. 

This also takes the sting out of protecting myself in the relationship with my mom to me.  I didn't ask to be so deeply hurt that I couldn't stand to even have a phone conversation with my mother or be able to send her a mother's day card once a year, but hey, that's what happened.  I'm not going to accept blame for being a bad daughter, any more than I blame my mother for being a bad mother.  We were just both caught up in a bad situation and extremely hurtful things were said and done that can't be undone at this point.  Sometimes relationships die, just like everything else in life, and that's sad but what's lost is replaced with new loves and hopes and plans and life fills itself up again.  None of this is anyone's fault or anyone's choice, it's just the nature of life. 

I don't know maybe this does get back to higher power... .  

[Drained Daughter]

Love your post Cordelia,

I didn't ask to be so deeply hurt that I couldn't stand to even have a phone conversation with my mother or be able to send her a mother's day card once a year, but hey, that's what happened.  I'm not going to accept blame for being a bad daughter, any more than I blame my mother for being a bad mother.  We were just both caught up in a bad situation and extremely hurtful things were said and done that can't be undone at this point. 

This reminds me of a phrase I've started using with my mother a lot when I'm setting a boundary with one of her insane demands.  I say something like, "look we are both just doing the best we can.  I know I'm not giving you every thing you want, but this is the best I can do right now.  I don't have any more to offer.  And I know the things that you have done were the best that you could do."

It has been pretty effective with her right now.  And frankly, I think it is true.

[skelly_bean]

Taking the FACT that the injury happened and it had an effect on you as a starting point is IMO more helpful than focusing on who's responsible for causing the injury, because it gets out of the past and into the present.  Who is to blame can be a way to avoid what is happening right now by replacing it with a focus on the past, who did what to whom and why.  But the past really doesn't matter in and of itself, it only matters to the extent that it is still having an effect on you and how you feel today.  So put the focus on THAT - how you feel about what happened to you.

Cordelia, I agree totally. I feel like having a borderline parent/relative forces you to accept a more radical emotional approach to the world. You're right that it doesn't help to place blame in past actions, but it does help to deal with the present results of past actions.

I'm learning right now that there are no 'perfectly right' actions. I hesitate about taking action with her other than NC because I want to make the exactly right choice. That's why I think about the past so much. Given all of the sum of my experience with her, what is the RIGHT way to act with regards to her?

I love this: "I'm not going to accept blame for being a bad daughter, any more than I blame my mother for being a bad mother.  We were just both caught up in a bad situation and extremely hurtful things were said and done that can't be undone at this point."

This is exactly it.