I set a limit (I think)

[wdone]

my bf sent me a text today, saying "it's toxic." that i'm "delusional," and ended it with "last warning."

i was able to say that i "hear that he feels it's toxic," that it worries me that he thinks i'm delusional, and said i was confused, and "what was the first warning?... . "  i also said "I am not willing to receive any more texts or calls like this, tonight" and that "i need a break for the night from the dark pattern", and that "these texts have been going on for 6 years, and i am tired." I also said "i love you a lot, and i am willing to respond to texts that are kind and grounded."

is that good on my part? i felt really good about myself after i sent them, but now am a little worried that i didn't validate him enough, or that he may feel abandoned. 

what do you think?

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[wdone]

i have to add that we have never been closer as we have been the last few month or so (on my birthday and then the 5 or 6 days after he threatened suicide, and then when i got back from my trip)

... . i did notice him opening up more, acknowledging his illness more, being more willing to get help, outwardly expressing his love for me to me, and in front of his friends!, stating out-loud that we had been together for almost 6 years, laughing at his awareness of his "mental illness" as he said... .

it's the most bizarre thing: the more intimate and open and loving he is, the more in reality he is,  the more i think he is changing and NOW, he's present, etc, but what it really means is that he is about to disappear, "break it off," threaten me with "last warnings" out of the blue., that he leaves reality.

i did also text back a question tonight to him, which may not have been a good idea but i am so sick of this. I asked him if he had made the appt with the Dr.

i am really sad. i am so tired. 

[Rockylove]

is that good on my part? i felt really good about myself after i sent them, but now am a little worried that i didn't validate him enough, or that he may feel abandoned. 

what do you think?

I know how exhausting this can be... . I think I can safely say we've all been there!  I don't know what the whole text message was about, but saying that you didn't want to continue texting unless it was more positive was a good boundary to set.  I've told my bf that I'd be shutting off the phone because his wild texts in the middle of the night were disturbing the family (I could have silenced the phone, but I often will forget that I've done that)

Setting a boundary can feel awkward at first.  I felt that I was being selfish just expressing what I wanted because I had never set firm boundaries before~~not just in this relationship, but all of my relationships.  The truth is that I'd keep taking the crap until I was so emotionally drained that I'd explode in anger.  Totally ineffective~~especially when dealing with BPD.  I'm working at setting boundaries when I'm in a good frame of mind and that's helping. 

I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't feel something, but it sounds like you're having a bit of guilt associated with your boundary.  He will feel however he feels and you've no control over that.  You didn't say anything that I would associate with abandoning him, but even if he does that's ok.  You may feel that you weren't validating enough~~I often feel that way because it doesn't come naturally to me (I was brought up by the most invalidating mother in a very invalidating atmosphere) but I keep working at that too. 

It's all a heck of a lot of work     but I know that it will ultimately help me relate better to everyone in my life... . not just my bf.

[allibaba]

it's the most bizarre thing: the more intimate and open and loving he is, the more in reality he is,  the more i think he is changing and NOW, he's present, etc, but what it really means is that he is about to disappear, "break it off," threaten me with "last warnings" out of the blue., that he leaves reality.

I think that they call this PUSH/ PULL.  They get close and then pull away.  It seems like you are making great progress with your relationship.  Don't get discouraged by little hiccups (I know that they don't seem little but in our house as soon as we get close my husband starts the divorce threats)... . he really doesn't mean it... . I am confident of that.  Just continue to love him. 

As for threatening suicide... . that is a tough one.  To any NORMAL relationship a suicide threat is 'sirens going off... . defcon 1.'  I know that my husband will occasionally (as in rarely) refer to suicide in a really ambiguous way - just to get attention.  We have had enough discussions in his good moments that I know that this is not an option for him no matter how bad he feels... . so I know its an empty (half threat) just designed to see how I will react. 

REALLY REALLY good job on the boundary with the texts!  I wouldn't have asked about seeing the therapist because my uBPDh would have perceived that as invalidating but everyone is different and it sounds like yours is pretty open. 

PS If I had a dollar for every time I got a 'last warning'  well... . I might actually be able to buy a car with that money.  LOL

[123Phoebe]

Hi wdone,

Setting limits is imperative, so good for you for recognizing what yours are and starting to implement them.

Worrying about validating him enough is a sign of needing to detach a bit more, before it gets to that stage.  Detachment does not mean abandoning him, even though I understand it feels like it does.  It's detaching from his stuff with full awareness that his stuff isn't your stuff.  Riding his wave of up & down emotions will exhaust you.  If you want to do something for him, be emotionally steady, sturdy (yet not rigid), firm on your limits and boundaries, while securing your own self love and care.  His feelings ARE his reality-- the good the bad and the ugly.  Not just the feeling good vibes.

Unless you're willing to leave the relationship [if he doesn't make an apt with the Dr], it might be a good idea to keep those thoughts and questions to yourself.  He might hear, "You're ~cRazY~ and you better see a Dr or I'm outta here!"  I would imagine it would feel pretty bad and invalidating to hear that.

my bf sent me a text today, saying "it's toxic." that i'm "delusional," and ended it with "last warning."

^^How does it feel when he says similar things to you?^^

[wdone]

Hi wdone,

Setting limits is imperative, so good for you for recognizing what yours are and starting to implement them.

Worrying about validating him enough is a sign of needing to detach a bit more, before it gets to that stage.  Detachment does not mean abandoning him, even though I understand it feels like it does.  It's detaching from his stuff with full awareness that his stuff isn't your stuff.  Riding his wave of up & down emotions will exhaust you.  If you want to do something for him, be emotionally steady, sturdy (yet not rigid), firm on your limits and boundaries, while securing your own self love and care.  His feelings ARE his reality-- the good the bad and the ugly.  Not just the feeling good vibes.

Unless you're willing to leave the relationship [if he doesn't make an apt with the Dr], it might be a good idea to keep those thoughts and questions to yourself.  He might hear, "You're ~cRazY~ and you better see a Dr or I'm outta here!"  I would imagine it would feel pretty bad and invalidating to hear that.

my bf sent me a text today, saying "it's toxic." that i'm "delusional," and ended it with "last warning."

^^How does it feel when he says similar things to you?^^

thanks!

i appreciate your post.

i am trying to see how my asking if he has seen a Dr. is similar to him telling me it's "toxic," i'm "delusional," and "last warning"? i can't seem to see the similarity ?

[wdone]

is that good on my part? i felt really good about myself after i sent them, but now am a little worried that i didn't validate him enough, or that he may feel abandoned. 

what do you think?

I know how exhausting this can be... . I think I can safely say we've all been there!  I don't know what the whole text message was about, but saying that you didn't want to continue texting unless it was more positive was a good boundary to set.  I've told my bf that I'd be shutting off the phone because his wild texts in the middle of the night were disturbing the family (I could have silenced the phone, but I often will forget that I've done that)

Setting a boundary can feel awkward at first.  I felt that I was being selfish just expressing what I wanted because I had never set firm boundaries before~~not just in this relationship, but all of my relationships.  The truth is that I'd keep taking the crap until I was so emotionally drained that I'd explode in anger.  Totally ineffective~~especially when dealing with BPD.  I'm working at setting boundaries when I'm in a good frame of mind and that's helping. 

I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't feel something, but it sounds like you're having a bit of guilt associated with your boundary.  He will feel however he feels and you've no control over that.  You didn't say anything that I would associate with abandoning him, but even if he does that's ok.  You may feel that you weren't validating enough~~I often feel that way because it doesn't come naturally to me (I was brought up by the most invalidating mother in a very invalidating atmosphere) but I keep working at that too. 

It's all a heck of a lot of work     but I know that it will ultimately help me relate better to everyone in my life... . not just my bf.

thanks. thanks for relating, and saying that i should not feel guilt. it's helpful.

that was the first text message out of the blue, with the "last warning"

the only other thing he said was he's never coming back, and it's toxic... .

then "last warning."

is there a warning in there? ugh.

and, he had just been talking about moving back in to the house.

[123Phoebe]

i did also text back a question tonight to him, which may not have been a good idea but i am so sick of this. I asked him if he had made the appt with the Dr.

i am really sad. i am so tired. 

i am trying to see how my asking if he has seen a Dr. is similar to him telling me it's "toxic," i'm "delusional," and "last warning"? i can't seem to see the similarity ?

In a way, does it seem like you're both telling each other to get help?  That's what it looks like to me.  And in a way, you're both right!  Only the focus is outward, on the other person, rather than on yourselves as individuals in need of new coping methods and a bridge to better relationship dynamics.

We cannot change other people or make them get help, especially if they don't recognize themselves as needing it.  Some days they might, some days they might not.  The decision to seek help is ultimately up to the person who believes they need it, because they want it and are open to it, for themselves.  Nobody else.

What will happen to you if he doesn't seek appropriate treatment?  Anything?  Nothing?

Why did you ask him if he's made an appointment with the Dr?  Why do you think it may not have been a good idea?

Understanding why we do the things we do is a huge ingredient in the recipe towards healing... .  

[patientandclear]

If I remember right, Wdone's bf has recently raised the question of what kind of help he could get & has said he thinks he needs to see a doctor.  When not dysregulated, it sounds like he acknowledges something is wrong & sometimes he wants help.

It seems like when that's been part of recent discussions, it's a little weird not ever to make reference to it unless the pwBPD brings it up. I wonder if from their perspective THAT could be frustrating.

[123Phoebe]

If I remember right, Wdone's bf has recently raised the question of what kind of help he could get & has said he thinks he needs to see a doctor.  When not dysregulated, it sounds like he acknowledges something is wrong & sometimes he wants help.

It seems like when that's been part of recent discussions, it's a little weird not ever to make reference to it unless the pwBPD brings it up. I wonder if from their perspective THAT could be frustrating.

Hmm, I think I understand what you're saying P&C-- that the pwBPD would feel invalidated and frustrated if their deepest recognitions of needing help went unnoticed? 

There's a time and place for everything-- dysregulation not being one of those times.  And there's only so much someone can do for another adult person seeking help without enabling, controlling, invalidating etc... . wreaking codependency.  Unless we're the parent, therapist or legal guardian, our hands are pretty tied.

Wdone, do you think your boyfriend is fully aware of your desires for him to seek help for himself?  If so, and he chooses not to go forward with appropriate therapy, what will you do?

You've said numerous times that you're sad and tired.  If nothing changes within him, what does your future look like?  What kinds of changes can you make, for yourself, to feel happy and energized? 

[Chosen]

My H likes to "warn" me a lot too.

Now whenever he uses those words it's a huge clue he's dysregulated, and I will tell him that "threatening me does not work".

Yesterday I have set a boundary too, I think.  It doesn't feel good I have to admit, because he makes it seem like I'm a cruel and selfish person, but I *know* in my heart that it's better that way.

Hopefully with the space, your bf will have some time to calm down, and you too.  Take care.

[patientandclear]

There's a time and place for everything-- dysregulation not being one of those times.

Roger that.

[wdone]

i did also text back a question tonight to him, which may not have been a good idea but i am so sick of this. I asked him if he had made the appt with the Dr.

i am really sad. i am so tired. 

i am trying to see how my asking if he has seen a Dr. is similar to him telling me it's "toxic," i'm "delusional," and "last warning"? i can't seem to see the similarity ?

In a way, does it seem like you're both telling each other to get help?  That's what it looks like to me.  And in a way, you're both right!  Only the focus is outward, on the other person, rather than on yourselves as individuals in need of new coping methods and a bridge to better relationship dynamics.

We cannot change other people or make them get help, especially if they don't recognize themselves as needing it.  Some days they might, some days they might not.  The decision to seek help is ultimately up to the person who believes they need it, because they want it and are open to it, for themselves.  Nobody else.

What will happen to you if he doesn't seek appropriate treatment?  Anything?  Nothing?

Why did you ask him if he's made an appointment with the Dr?  Why do you think it may not have been a good idea?

Understanding why we do the things we do is a huge ingredient in the recipe towards healing... .  

thanks,

I don't think i am delusional, or toxic... . so... . i can be and am more then willing to be open to getting help, and i am in therapy, on this board, have a sponsor, etc. 

when he is dysregulated, i don't think i should buy into his stuff, or take much of what he says to heart.  it is usually not based in reality, (as we all know)... . i've worked hard to get to the point of taking things he says to heart much less and being detached with love. 

i am really trying to learn new methods of talking to him/relating to him.  i am (hopefully) applying what i have learned on here, in books, and through my support group for partners of mentally ill people.  what i have learned and through experience, is that--when he is talking suicide, it is serious. i have learned that much of the focus IS on him, and needs to be-he is the one with the mental illness.  they talked a lot in the class about what we need to be aware of and how many times, we need to carry the load, be strong... .

i asked him if he had made an appt with the Dr. to check in with him about it. we had had a serious talk about it a week or so ago, and he had said he really needs help and agreed/promised to call for support.  it does affect me and my life is he didn't/doesn't get the help. 

i thought it may not have been a good idea as he has BPD/issues, and i need to be careful about triggering him. i wanted to say it in a way where he would not get paranoid/triggered. 

if he did not get help, and killed himself, it would affect me. i would be devastated.  if i had not asked, i would not feel good about it.  i would like my partner(any partner) to be taking care of himself, just as i take care of myself.

[wdone]

My H likes to "warn" me a lot too.

Now whenever he uses those words it's a huge clue he's dysregulated, and I will tell him that "threatening me does not work".

Yesterday I have set a boundary too, I think.  It doesn't feel good I have to admit, because he makes it seem like I'm a cruel and selfish person, but I *know* in my heart that it's better that way.

Hopefully with the space, your bf will have some time to calm down, and you too.  Take care.

thank you... . how does he warn you? is it similar? do you buy into it? does he get mad when you tell him it doesn't work? i'm not sure how my bf would react to that--i'd like to try it, it's a good idea--i just worry that he may feel invalidated (or like he has no control/power) which is a running theme. he need to feel in control.

what kind of boundary did you set?

[wdone]

There's a time and place for everything-- dysregulation not being one of those times.

Roger that.

Yes--agree! 

[Chosen]

Having read about extinction bursts, I realise my H tries to push every button available, and some more.  I tell him that threatening me doesn't work, and he just repeats himself.  It was true that in the past I had a lot of fear.  These few days I have frustration and upsets, but very little fear, and I think that's an improvement.

For example, there would often be cases in which he wants me to apologise for something he perceives as an attack on him, or just something that he claims makes him feel bad.  But it's not a fault on my part, and even validation doesn't work as he wants me to "own up to" something I did not do and accept it and apologise for it to make him feel better.  Of course I cannot do that (as this will mean I actually have done that), and he would say, "Here's your last warning.  You better apologise now."  or "This is your last chance."  and he says a lot "I've had enough of you."  I used to buy into it, but no more.  Because I didn't do something, I will not admit to it even if it means he will leave, right?  Relationships don't work that way.  I just repeatedly tell him "threatening me doesn't work.  It doesn't mean I have done it." 

The boundary I have set is this: my dad had a surgery yesterday.  H called and claimed he wanted to talk to dad but instead kept on scolding me blaming me (listing the stuff I “do wrong”).  I asked him more than once whether he would like to first talk to dad, he kept on belittling me.  In the end I said that, “You have called to talk to dad but all you did was accuse me.  I’m hanging up.”  And I did.  Via text, he still asked to talk to dad, and in the past I would, but I now realise that his actions need to have consequences.  I just texted back, “You said you want to talk to him but you chose to use the phone call to hurl verbal abuse at me instead.  It was your choice.  Now you will not get to talk to him.”  Because really, I did my best- even when he was dysregulated I still allowed him to talk to my dad, only that he was too angry or whatever to stop his abuse.  Not even to pause it until after he talked to dad.  So he doesn’t get to talk to him, that’s it.

[wdone]

Having read about extinction bursts, I realise my H tries to push every button available, and some more.  I tell him that threatening me doesn't work, and he just repeats himself.  It was true that in the past I had a lot of fear.  These few days I have frustration and upsets, but very little fear, and I think that's an improvement.

For example, there would often be cases in which he wants me to apologise for something he perceives as an attack on him, or just something that he claims makes him feel bad.  But it's not a fault on my part, and even validation doesn't work as he wants me to "own up to" something I did not do and accept it and apologise for it to make him feel better.  Of course I cannot do that (as this will mean I actually have done that), and he would say, "Here's your last warning.  You better apologise now."  or "This is your last chance."  and he says a lot "I've had enough of you."  I used to buy into it, but no more.  Because I didn't do something, I will not admit to it even if it means he will leave, right?  Relationships don't work that way.  I just repeatedly tell him "threatening me doesn't work.  It doesn't mean I have done it." 

The boundary I have set is this: my dad had a surgery yesterday.  H called and claimed he wanted to talk to dad but instead kept on scolding me blaming me (listing the stuff I “do wrong”).  I asked him more than once whether he would like to first talk to dad, he kept on belittling me.  In the end I said that, “You have called to talk to dad but all you did was accuse me.  I’m hanging up.”  And I did.  Via text, he still asked to talk to dad, and in the past I would, but I now realise that his actions need to have consequences.  I just texted back, “You said you want to talk to him but you chose to use the phone call to hurl verbal abuse at me instead.  It was your choice.  Now you will not get to talk to him.”  Because really, I did my best- even when he was dysregulated I still allowed him to talk to my dad, only that he was too angry or whatever to stop his abuse.  Not even to pause it until after he talked to dad.  So he doesn’t get to talk to him, that’s it.

wow, thank you. you do sound like you are able to set strong limits, and that you are not in fear.  i have been acting out of fear -- fear that he will leave, fear that he will rage, fear that i will "make it worse," and that he will dysrrgulate and get worse... . thank you for your strength and example... .

my bf tries to push all my buttons as well. i need to read more about extinction bursts. 

i wonder if saying "you threatening me doesn't work anymore" could apply to when my bf says "i'm never coming back." or " i don't want to be with you anymore."

i mean, i can see it IS a threat as he never really leaves, and when he is sane, he comes back and we can talk about it, laugh about it, etc but when he is dysregulated and he says it, and he thinks he REALLY means it--would that be invalidating to him? i may be having a big paradigm shift right now.  thank you for helping me see things in a different way!

[Chosen]

wdone, I have learnt a lot from this site, even though it's been less than a year since I joined.  I used to be the fearful creature which would shrink when H says anything, or if I suspect he's going to dysregulate.  Funnily, to other people I'm a really independent, confident person... . I guess this is how handling a pwBPD changes us.

My take is, if your bf says "I'm never coming back", you can never know if he will follow through.  But he's the person in charge of his actions, and you shouldn't compromise or apologise or do anything for the sole purpose of preventing him from doing it.  If I were in your position, I'd probably say, "The choice is up to you.  You can choose where to go, although if it were me I wouldn't leave."  Then if he leaves, he leaves.  If he stays, then let it be.  I suppose this is a way to let him know tht whatever he's threatening about (leaving, saying he wants out) does not have anything to do with the matter on hand (although no use telling him that).  pwBPDs do a lot of things without thinking about consequences.  They dramatise their responses so they can scare us into action.  It's just letting them taste what responsibility is- if he says he will leave, you will not stop him.  If he comes back, it's because he wants to, not because you begged him into it.

When he mentions a certain action (leaving, filing for divorce), I take it at face value.  He wants to do hit.   I don't care what his intentions are- to threaten, or to do the action.  If he's not threatening me but really wants to divorce, he would move out, contact lawyers right?  Then who am I to stop him?

[Chosen]

Oh, and just to add- I am worried he will leave too, and I don't want that to happen, but we acting out of this fear doesn't help the relationship, and although they will make it sound like it's because we did hit that they stayed, it really wasn't.  It was because they chose to stay. 

If they really want to leave, no matter what you do, they still would.  It's not something we have total control of.  I think realising this has released me from some of that fear.