Co-Dependant Question

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I don't know anything much about co-dependancy. I've never considered myself co-dependant before. I don't seem to check off on the criteria in regards to the way I have spent most of my life. However, if I apply it to my actions with my pwBPD I see some similarities. Is it possible to be co- dependant or not co-dependant depending on the partner you are in a relationship with?

[almost789]

I don't know anything much about co-dependancy. I've never considered myself co-dependant before. I don't seem to check off on the criteria in regards to the way I have spent most of my life. However, if I apply it to my actions with my pwBPD I see some similarities. Is it possible to be co- dependant or not co-dependant depending on the partner you are in a relationship with?

[Maryiscontrary]

Yes.

If the situation demands you subsidizing a situation for which you are chronically in fear or discomfort (many types), then this is codependency.

[almost789]

Yeah, I had been applying the co dependancy criteria's to basically my life experiences and thinking, no Im not co dependant. And I've not been. But, when I apply them to my pwBPD I AM and in a very extreme way. He has been my number one priority. Yes, I have put him before me.  I think it can depend on the partner your with. I looked up co dependent relationship and I found this:

Of or relating to a relationship in which one person is psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on someone who is addicted to a drug or self-destructive behavior, such as chronic gambling.

I've been floundering around with my life on hold awaiting him to "come around" so I can help him. How fricken long am I going to wait? I have to get on with my life, Im obsessed with HIS.

And here is the craziest part, I already have a man who loves me! and treats me well. But, it's not the "high' type of love I had with my pwBPD. I can't seem to get my focus back on my regular life. I don't get it.

[Maryiscontrary]

Boy, we can all empathize here. Do you have trauma associated with this, or just extreme irritation?

[almost789]

what do you mean? sorry, trauma? I have trauma associated with my relationship with him I think. I have a history of alcoholism mother so yeah, they say your co dependant with that usually. what I don't get is i never noticed any issues prior to him.

[almost789]

What i want to know is why I keep chasing after a man who is not available to me? He was available, then he cut that off abruptly and is clearly not available at any level worthy of my time and I can't let go. It doesn't make sense.

[MaybeSo]

I never had a r/s that brought my cd tendencies roaring to the surface, but they were there.

I had confused boundaries. For examPle, I am the go to person for years and years for any friends or family in need of an ear to process difficult material. I spent thousands of hours listening and supporting, nothing wrong with that but... . It wasn't very balanced. For years I provided a sounding board to folks who couldn't reciprocate when I needed help. I might have put 100 hours into their crises, if I had an issue I'd get maybe 10 minutes before they had places to go and things to do. This is an indication of poor boundaries and a lack of balance that I participated in for years and years. I hadn't met the coup de grace yet... . (my ex) but I was already not taking very good care of  myself emotionally.

Another example; is to walk into a room and if someone seemed unhappy I'd immediately think

it was something I did and I'd get incredibly anxious.

I let other peoples moods freak me out, again poor emotional boundaries... . I felt I had to fix

another persons bad mood... . Or fear it, or be in a bad mood, too. Very blurred emotional

boundaries... . no concept that a person can have a mood totally and utterly seperate from me and

I didn't necessarily cause it, don't have to fix it, nor do I have to join in with it. I thought being

emotionally enmeshed made me a nice person. I was anxious a lot!

I was never with a person quite like my BPD ex before, so no real crazy making stuff or volatility

in my relationships before. But, I did notice that I found relationships a bit draining and like I

had to loose myself in a relationship. And I did feel like I always lost a part of myself in

relationship... . but no huge drama trauma.

Those are symptoms of poor boundaries eg., codependence.

This is how I was raised to understand love.

I didn't know it was a bit off or unhealthy.

Then I met the coup de grace... . my ex. His crap mixed with my crap and omg we were off to the

races.

I had a lot of codependent traits, leanings, beliefs... .

And they came roaring to the surface in almost cartoonish glory with my Ex and all his antics.

So, it was quite a learning experience!

Who knew?

[almost789]

Thats interesting I can relate with some of it, especially the being the listening ear for everyone, the go to for for that, but not asking for help myself, because most times Id rather help myself... . . I spent years taking care of my kids and now they grown and Im thinking Im searching for that person to "take care of" A wounded soul to help. I am a rescuer. I used to voluteer for abused and neglected children, until I met my pwBPD and my psychological world flipped upside down. But, how to fix? And whats wrong with helping people anyway? Until I got involved with BPD it was ok to help people. Everyone says "deal with YOU" What does that mean? I don't want to be selfish, and only think of me. What is the balance? What do you do to fix it. How did you all "deal with your issues" what fixes it? I really just want to be able to let go of him. I can't seem to do it, it hurts. He keeps me stringing along but never looking like he REALLY wants help. It's almost exactly like that peom the rope bridge, like "don't let go!... . but im not going to do anything to help myself" I've rescued alot of people, but it seems this one I can't! I hate that BPD wins.

[almost789]

This is the fable and someone else had posted it here: The Bridge and the Rope: A Fable about (not?) being Responsible


It is a moonlit night and alone in his thoughts he starts crossing a bridge. The man sees out of the corner of his eye a stranger dressed much like himself coming towards him. He thinks the man approaching is putting his hand out to greet him. However, the stranger has the end of a rope in his hand with the other end entwined around him.

The stranger asks the man to hold the end of the rope. Whilst perplexed the man complies.

The stranger asks the man to hold on tight with two hands and then promptly jumps off the bridge toward the swift running deep river below. "Hold on" the stranger cries. The free-falling body hurtled the distance of the rope's length, and from the bridge the man abruptly felt the pull. He held tight despite being almost pulled over the side of the bridge.

Peering down at the stranger who was close to oblivion, the man yelled, "What are you trying to do?"

"Just hold tight," said the other.

The man tried to haul the stranger in but he could not. He could not get enough leverage. His strength was almost perfectly counterbalanced by the other man's weight.

"Why did you do this?" the man called out. "Remember," said the other, "if you let go, I will be lost." "But I cannot pull you up," the man cried. "I am your responsibility," said the other. "Well, I did not ask for it," the man said. "If you let go, I am lost," repeated the other.

The man looked around for help, tried to invent solutions but could not think of any that would work. He waited for someone to come and help pull the stranger up, but no one came. Fearing that his arms could not hold out much longer, he tied the rope around his waist.

"Why did you do this?" he asked again. ":)on't you see what you have done? What possible purpose could you have had in mind?" "Just remember," said the other, "my life is in your hands."

Time passed and a decision needed to be made. The man could not hold on much longer.

A thought occurred to him. If the stranger hauled himself up and he kept the end steady and pulled a bit, together they could get the stranger back to safety. But the other wasn't interested.

"You mean you won't help? But I told you I cannot pull you up myself, and I don't think I can hang on much longer either." "You must try," the other shouted back in tears. "If you fail, I die." The point of decision arrived. The man said to the other, "Listen to me. I will not accept the position of choice for your life, only for my own; the position of choice for your own life, I hereby give back to you."

"What do you mean?" the other asked, afraid. "I mean, simply, it's up to you. You decide which way this ends. I will help you if you help yourself."

"You cannot mean what you say," the other shrieked. "You would not be so selfish. I am your responsibility. What could be so important that you would let someone die? Do not do this to me."

He waited a moment. There was no change i the tension of the rope. "I accept your choice," the man said, at last, and freed his hands.

[Take2]

Yeah, I had been applying the co dependancy criteria's to basically my life experiences and thinking, no Im not co dependant. And I've not been. But, when I apply them to my pwBPD I AM and in a very extreme way. He has been my number one priority. Yes, I have put him before me.  I think it can depend on the partner your with. I looked up co dependent relationship and I found this:

Of or relating to a relationship in which one person is psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on someone who is addicted to a drug or self-destructive behavior, such as chronic gambling.

I've been floundering around with my life on hold awaiting him to "come around" so I can help him. How fricken long am I going to wait? I have to get on with my life, Im obsessed with HIS.

And here is the craziest part, I already have a man who loves me! and treats me well. But, it's not the "high' type of love I had with my pwBPD. I can't seem to get my focus back on my regular life. I don't get it.

Summer, I can totally relate to everything you are writing on this thread.  I truly have no idea why I have stuck around for the abusive treatment that I've received with my pwBPD.  My therapist tells me it's not love.  That it's addiction. I agree with her but I know it's also love.  But why I don't treat myself with the same level of concern and the same level of respect that I give him makes no sense to me.  I've never been abused or neglected.  I had a wonderful childhood with a supportive family.  My parents fought alot.  My mom was mentally ill - but none of that was obvious to me growing up.  That mentally ill part didn't become obvious at all until I was into my 20s.  I too have someone else who loves me and treats me far better.  I can't seem to see what I'm typing - not sure why this site gives me so much trouble in writing messages.  Sorry... .

[almost789]

Really take2? So, what is this? It's like they hook into something about us and it's nearly impossible to let go. It IS like an addiction. I feel like I love him. I mean who could do all this stuff they do and we still feel love for them? I'm extremely physically attracted to him as well and that doesn't help. It is not like he is the best looking guy in the world or anything but, I am drawn to him like magnet. So you have someone else who loves you and treats you better? I do. He's good looking, affectionate, nice, patient, understanding, funny, he is my best friend. But, I don't have the attraction with him like I do with my pwBPD.

[Take2]

Yes Summer - I do have someone who treats me far far better.  Someone who is good looking, successful.  Someone I have no interest in.  I don't know what hooked me into my exBPDbf - but I can't break the intense magnetic attraction I have for him.  Even when he is at his most evil with what he says to me, there are times I can break free from the addiction briefly, but then when he comes back and is normal again - my brain lets me take him back in.  I just look at him and am blown away by him.  What is that?

It's abuse.  I most definitely never expected myself to behave like a classically abused female who won't walk away from her abuser.

My life long best friends who I've known for 30 + years - ask where have I gone?  where is the woman they've always known and loved?  the one who would never deal with this?  they tell me that I've become obsessed with this man and let him rule my life. 

Why?  I don't know.  I've read theories about chemical reactions women (and men to a lesser extent) have when involved with this type of situation - where physical intimacy causes one to release oxytocin, the hormone you get when breastfeeding, and it causes intense bonding.  And then when it's gone, you crave it back.  But that doesn't really take into account the fact that other women are able to stand up for themselves and say NO to abusive treatment.  I have been trying for a long time now to figure out why I am so codependent.  Why I have such intense abandonment issues when I have so much.  It makes no sense to me. 

Therapy helps a tiny bit.  Reading and talking on here - helps more.  Truly connecting with others who understand and are experiencing the same thing - helps the most... .    

[nolisan]

You may qualify for ACA )Adult Children of Alcoholics (and dysfunctional families). I know I do. And they say you can't be an AC without being codependent and visa versa.

Check out these traits:

The Laundry List – 14 Traits of an Adult Child of an Alcoholic

   We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.

   We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.

   We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.

   We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.

   We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.

   We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.

   We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.

   We became addicted to excitement.

   We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."

   We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).

   We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.

   We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.

   Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.

   Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.


It was (almost) funny ... . toward the end of my BPD r/s I asked the ex if she thought I was codependent (she went to both ACA and CoDA). She said emphatically "NO". Hmmm I was paying her mortgage because she couldn't hold a job (rescuing). She wasn't stupid.

[MaybeSo]

The theme of an addiction is worth following through.

I believe the intense pull I had to my ex at one time was a florid, active addiction.

Yes, some get over the addiction but I would propose they had to go through a process called withdrawal. You get off and stay off the drug for a long enough period that you break the addiction cycle. Good news: it works. Bad news: it's painful to go through withdrawal, the craving for a hit can lead to relapse.

If addiction at it's core is an avoidance of self... . what does that say about this kind of an addiction?

There are some good threads right now like the one on rescuing v. supporting  on PI right that dovetail well with this thread, and also, a good thread on the Leaving board About Emotional Immaturity that starts out with a great blurb about Indivduation from Bowens Family Systems theory. The checklist about individuation is a fantastic eye opener.

[almost789]

Nolisan, I can identify with alot of these things. But a few of them I don't, complete opposite. Now, my mother was alcoholic, but I spent about a 50/50 split between her and two happy healthy grandparents. Maybe that's why I don't identify with ALL of this stuff because I had two different up bringings. I don't fear authority in any way whatsoever. My grandparents were not disciplinarians nor was my mother was not mean either, she let me run wild, and she was very kind caring, showed me lots of love and boosts my self esteem. She WAS neglectful because of her own pain. She WAS in and out of my life at the drop of a hat and frequently even though presesnt was not there, or was more dependant on me for her emotional issues, not mine. I hate rules, I can't be told what to do. Except at work because I have to, but if that gets to be too much as in working under a micro manager I just find another job. I also don't typically have weak boundaries. I don't with anyone but my pwBPD. He too, is not mean or abusive, but he is not there emotionally! Or he flails in and out, being very much there, then completely gone. Just like my mother! Weird. I used to think freuds stuff was a bunch of baloney, but now Im starting to think maybe not. My husband on the other hand is healty, happy treats me good and is almost a carbon copy of my grandfather. Even down to the shows they watch and they both are golf freaks! I didn't marry an alcoholic. My real dad was out of the picture and I never knew him and I didn't think that effected me so much, I never longed for him cause I never knew him. So, maybe this duality in my upbringing with the "good" grandparents and the "bad" alcoholic mother has something to do with why I crave this man when I still have a good husband. But, what to do? How to let go? I wanted to save my mother, I wanted her to get better my whole life, but she never did and to this day still drinks but she's calmed way down.


I am addicted Maybeso, yfes, I need to break that. I dont want to accept he can't get better. ... . or wont.