I don't know what to say

[peacebaby]

Just feel like I need to talk. Been in this relationship 11 years now and I don't completely understand why I stay. Like most, these days I have the urge to post only when I feel really bad. In so many ways life is going well for us, even though our broke-ness is terrifying. We've just survived all kinds of terrible news and serious injuries, we've gotten closer, she's way mostly like a real grown person most of the time. More than ever. But there are still huge pockets of crazy aggression. 

Whereas I feel really negative about life a lot of the time. As I always have. She makes it so much worse, life, and yet she makes it better. There is just so much ugliness and injustice everywhere I can't tune it out. I feel like I hate the world most of the time, that I wish I were dead, that it was just over, because half of me doesn't believe it will ever get better. Part of it is her, that she is my love and why the hell does this love have to be such a messed up one? We've both tried so hard and made so much progress, but we still often have a difficult time communicating around emotional issues without blaming each other. Our relationship should be the beautiful thing at the core of my life, the thing that gives me strength, but it's just not.

We are both so in love and faithful, but when she gets angry, it's just as bad as it ever was, though it's much less frequent. My reactions have changed a lot, but it doesn't seem to matter once she's triggered. We're really good at separating before things get bad, but sometimes, like today, we were unable to separate in time. We were arguing about our favorite pass-time, cuddling, if you can believe it, and we both got defensive. Then she picked up the cd alarm clock and hit me over the head with it and we ended up in an ugly tussle. She pulled scissors on me, threatened to kill me, and I held her down and slapped her while screaming at her to stop. Then I managed to leave the apartment, wondering aloud to her why I don't call the cops. I walked down the stairs in  my building saying, Feel free to call the cops about my domestic abuse situation. No one did. This is New York City, after all.

It's an hour or so later and we're in separate rooms, though she's still in her crazy woman place. I used to just defend myself, but I've found that fighting back makes me feel much better. Less of a victim. We've both had recent injuries--hers required major surgery, mind just some stitches but it was just a few days ago--and yet she still can't stop herself from attacking me when she's really upset.

As soon as she does anything that upsets me, I immmediately think about how to break up with her. It's kind of BPD-ish, I think, to turn her quickly into an enemy to get away from. Yet part of me thinks I should get away, that there's no way this will work out if we don't have time apart. And that I just want to leave her, period, and see how I feel just by myself again. Yet she is such a special person and being with her feels so good so much of the time. When we hold hands it's like the first time, every time.

I know I'm messed up. No question there. These days it's she who reminds me of the ways to handle emotions. We both try to validate instead of responding. I've got some PTSD and I live with the person who gave it to me.

I know the physical violence is a very bad thing. But to me, it's more acceptable than being cheated on or lied to. I don't want to leave but I know in theory that I should

I do have one very clear concept that I have shared with her. I'm a year and a half from fifty, and when I hit 50, if she is not in control of her aggression with me, we will no longer be living together.

And if I come into money before then, we will live separately for a while. Would love to see what our relationship was like if we didn't take each other so badly for granted.

It's so hard to admit, but I feel like a victim of life most of the time. Feeling like a victim is the worst thing a person can feel--stops all possibility for change. I know I'm not a victim, a huge part of me is more of a hero, but it's hard to find sometimes.

I have to write in my diary more.

Thanks for reading.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[jedicloak]

Wow! That is powerful stuff you've shared. Honestly, there isn't much to say to you. Together you have established a pattern of "acceptable" behavior between the two of you... . and you have written your justification for allowing it to continue. So, the chance that this is going to change today, tomorrow or when you're 50 years old is like 0%. Things change because there is a catalyst for change - something is different than it has been. You can be the catalyst for change by learning about boundaries and enacting them and doing something different in your r/s if you want to. You could attend Alanon, or Coda or 12 step meetings or read a book on boundaries (I recommend "Boundaries in Marriage", but ultimately friend, it is your choice as to whether things improve or continue on the way they have been. Please take care of you - you're not a victim, even though you feel like one. Folks on the outside looking in can see that way clearer than you can because you are way too close to the situation to have an objective view.

[eeyore]

peacebaby, 

Sounds like some tough days as of late.  I pray for you to find the answers to internal questions that will give you comfort. 

[iluminati]

I've known you for years on this site, and am very familiar with your story.  I do hope you dan find a place of safety.  I don't want your face on a T-shirt at some LGBT rally about domestic violence, and I don't want to learn your real name courtesy of Chuck Scarborugh.

Still, I have to ask what are you getting out of the domestic violence?  I am not saying that you like it as much as it meets some sort of psychological need for you, especially since you can really bring yourself to leave,and you make it seem like it's not that bad.  Once you figure that out, you will have the first steps towards being in a better place, and getting that need met through healthier means.

[garthaz]

I have a good friend that has a clinically diagnosed crazy wife and daughter. What I have found is that his thought patterns have been negatively effected. Although he is not crazy, a lot of times he makes no sense.

I think that happens to us.

My uBPDw only gets violent if I forget about boundaries. You have to leave, stop talking or ignore her as soon as you see the first sign that she is starting to melt down. I know it is hard and unfair that we cannot verbally defend ourselves or convince them that they are wrong. Once you realize that they are sick and are unable to think rationally, then you have to be able to take steps to stop the melt downs.

One way that works for me is to think of it this way. Lets say you have a mentally challenged child. This child keeps telling you that 1 + 1 = 3. Would you argue or punish the child for insisting on the wrong answer? Of course not. This child is not capable of solving that problem. No matter what you do or say, they are going to think 1+1=3. You have to give up on reality. You also do not have to agree or reward. You just acknowledge that they are doing math and move on.

What you are doing is insisting on reality with your wife. You think that she can see reality, when she cannot. You get involved in these conversations and arguments because you think she should know that the correct answer is 3. She gets upset because she thinks that you are calling her stupid. This escalates into other arguments such as ":)o you also think that 0+0=1?

There, now one argument has turned into 2. You know that she is wrong, but the mistake is thinking you can convicec her of the truth. Stop the argument at the very beginning. If you get sucked in, stop it as soon as possible.

[united for now]

I feel for you peacebaby

Changes seem to be missing in creating a safe environment for either of you.

I also wonder what you are getting out of the physical fights. It may be difficult and painful to uncover, but there "is" a payoff for you. Fighting may shift you from feeling like a victim and provide you with a sense of control in at least this one area.

Have you been working and exploring this in T?

[eeyore]

   you have been on my mind.  I was hoping you might drop in and give an update.

[peacebaby]

thanks for responding guys. Illuminati--good to hear from you, and sorry, there's enough abuse in the lesbian community that you will not know if that's me on the t-shirt or not. 

i've realized my stepmother had NPD and when i was a teenager she was totally insane to me when i lived with her and my dad the non who drank himself into a sad heart attack. i remember feeling a little proud when she'd go crazy on me, or hit me, because it made me feel like i was so important to her she'd lose it on me.

i used to feel that way with my partner, and proud that i could take it and still love her and accept her. but over the years i realized that was bulls***. i don't get any pleasure out of her hitting me. i do get pleasure out of hitting her back though--so many years of validating and leaving the house and still no change in the behavior. she still feels awful after, but she still takes it out on me. she'd hit me with something and i'd leave the house and it would be so triggering re my relationship with my stepmother--i'd walk the streets feeling punished and hopeless. hitting back is a giving up thing, a thing i said i'd never do, but it makes me feel strong, good to know that she isn't actually stronger than i am, that i can hurt her back and win. as a very nonviolent person, it's bizarre.

when she is totally insane already is the time i can tell her my feelings without fear that she will lose it--she's already lost it. i guess that's the main advantage--i can be angry with her when she's already angry. 

i am focusing on not feeling like a victim in any part of my life. feeling positive and not focusing on the negative. thinking about my options and the future. i do look forward to living apart from her for a while and making the choice to live with her again or not. i have the choice now but i choose to stay because most of it is good and we're broke. if i really wanted to leave her, i would. 

[united for now]

Awareness is the beginning of healing.

Thank you for your raw honesty... . that must have been hard to face 

[peacebaby]

Awareness is the beginning of healing.

Thank you for your raw honesty... . that must have been hard to face 

thanks ufn. i've been aware of this stuff for ages. my desire to 'save' my father and his wife is part of why i'm still with carmel. and i've known that for years as well.  it's not hard to face. just hard to change. but there are changes, and i'm very aware of what's going on. it's just the healthier she gets the healthier i expect her to be, and that's always been an issue. i need to accept where she is and remember she's still got some BPD.

[cult]

   Peacebaby     


I remember you so well from my early days on this board. I have been with my partner for 10 years now and let's just say things are very different than they were when I first showed up here crowing about how perfect my r/s was.

I am so sorry to hear of the eternal problems in your r/s. I remember a while ago reading that your partner had made tremendous strides in her recovery, and feeling so happy for you. Is your partner still in therapy/taking meds? Has there been a recent change that would have caused her to become more dysregulated (either through her being less vigilant in managing her illness, or in her needing new treatments)?

Domestic violence is no joke and for me that would be a deal breaker, but I understand that the good can outweigh everything else. Believe me I know. I am living such a situation minus the DV.

My partner and I are in a difficult place right now as well, and our future is murky although since the calendar turned to June, things have been a lot better between us. However it's all relative. I would not say at all that we are in a "good" place.

I don't think my partner has BPD but she has lots of other things. This year she turned 40, recovered traumatic memories of a rape she suffered 20 years ago, lost 100 pounds (and rekindled an eating disorder, only this time she is anorexic instead of compulsively eating) and entered into a midlife crisis. She and I have been having a rough go of it since 2009 when she got laid off. She still has not gone back to work and still hasn't recovered from the loss. She has basically been feeling sorry for herself and growing more resentful of me. There have been little explosions since 2010 but this was the year of the Big Bang. Probably the most frightening and hurtful thing that has happened is that she informed me that she is questioning her sexuality. That seems to have died down after I shared with her that I, too, have feelings of attraction to men that I simply choose not to act on.

As of now we are living together still and as mentioned above, things are improving. But we're a long way away from being able to set shared goals and plans. My partner is questioning every decision she has made since the age of 19. She's distancing and trying to assert her individuality - healthy, yes, but it leaves me very lonely as I have built my life around her and the r/s.

I am trying to work on myself, individuate and learn to get my validation from myself and not from her. That's a big one for me.

[Mono No Aware]

Whereas I feel really negative about life a lot of the time. As I always have. She makes it so much worse, life, and yet she makes it better. There is just so much ugliness and injustice everywhere I can't tune it out. I feel like I hate the world most of the time, that I wish I were dead, that it was just over, because half of me doesn't believe it will ever get better. Part of it is her, that she is my love and why the hell does this love have to be such a messed up one? We've both tried so hard and made so much progress, but we still often have a difficult time communicating around emotional issues without blaming each other. Our relationship should be the beautiful thing at the core of my life, the thing that gives me strength, but it's just not.

Peacebaby you are really hurting. You need healing, not more hurting. Please consider putting up a new boundary and denying both you and her the false reward of the violence. Your name is PEACE, baby!

Together you have established a pattern of "acceptable" behavior between the two of you... . and you have written your justification for allowing it to continue. So, the chance that this is going to change today, tomorrow or when you're 50 years old is like 0%.

+1

Things change because there is a catalyst for change - something is different than it has been. You can be the catalyst for change by learning about boundaries and enacting them and doing something different in your r/s if you want to.

+10

You could attend Alanon, or Coda or 12 step meetings or read a book on boundaries (I recommend "Boundaries in Marriage", but ultimately friend, it is your choice as to whether things improve or continue on the way they have been.

+100

Please take care of you - you're not a victim, even though you feel like one. Folks on the outside looking in can see that way clearer than you can because you are way too close to the situation to have an objective view.

+1000

[briefcase]

Hi Peacebaby, sorry to hear about your latest struggles.  Considering all that's going on, its understandable that you feel depressed - but you are in a scary emotional place right now.      Please take good care of yourself.

I would imagine that fighting back can feel good, maybe even a bit empowering if you feel victimized.  In the end, its not a path that leads to good things, or the kind of relationship you want.  I know you know all this.  What's your plan moving forward?

[eeyore]

Did I understand, you that you stay because you feel you are helping save Carmel?  And are you living in separate residences now or are you contemplating living in separate residences?

I've always thought that you were a person who worked at the challenges in your life in a very positive way.  And I have found surrounding myself with people who are positive to be helpful at dealing with the negatives I couldn't diminish.  I was glad to see you mentioned something similar. 

I hope you are doing ok. 

[peacebaby]

Thanks all. I'm actually in an okay place mostly 'cause I've gotten better at remembering that my relationship is only one part of my life, and one I can't control.

In response to various people:

My partner took DBT 3 years ago and has since made tremendous strides. She has almost no symptoms of mental illness now--just the rage disorder or whatever it is, aimed at me and her family who she's seldom in contact with. She has friends, can hold down a job, can deal with her progressing entertainment career without imploding. Things were going really well, though with an explosion every couple months that usually included violence but didn't always because we were using lotsa skills together and very proud of ourselves.

Then around 6 months ago she had to have major surgery, lost her job, and was stuck in bed/the apartment for months. She handled that very well--amazingly so. She was able to go back to behaviors from her earlier life around taking care of herself, having an exercise regimen, etc. I of course lost all my alone time and haven't had any significant time alone since December. And needless to say we are beyond broke.

So she was back on her feet applying for jobs, things were moving in a real positive way for both of us. Then she twisted her ankle in a hole in the street and fractured most of her foot. So there we were, everything coming together, and now here we are, with her stuck in bed again, and me still fucw22wing taking care of her all the time. WAY too many years of taking care of her. And so now she's really down on everything, thinks life is against her, and nastier than usual. Because it's all again come down to me getting her something from the kitchen every few minutes and there are tons of issues around that.

Oh and during this period she lost her insurance and stopped taking her meds, and she was doing FINE until the recent accident. We had a wonderful weekend this past weekend (good feelings and times and me helping her gladly) and then... . The crazy things almost always happen first thing in the morning when we're both still vulnerable and confused. Yesterday she started ___g at me about getting her coffee before I went to work because she's incapable for some reason of sitting in the kitchen, and she sprang on me almost immediately--the person who can't take a dish to or from the kitchen attacked me in the front hall, hopping on 1 foot, and put her hands around my neck screaming at me to get her coffee. I said that wasn't the way to do it and she needed to chill out, after I pried her fingers from around my neck and ran across the apartment away from her. She followed me, screaming like the crazy person, hopping on one foot, swinging her crutch. I kept blocking her and telling her to stop and calm down and managed to get away from her (though my wrist is killing me and I seem to have a bump on my head I don't remember getting). And then she threatened to break certain things unless I made her coffee and took it into the bedroom. I ran out of the apartment to the sound of breaking glass and her screaming. I made the choice to not hurt her foot more while stopping her from breaking things that have been in my family for years. Not a good choice to ever have to make and I hate that I've gotten myself into a situation where literally nothing I own is safe--she's broken my laptop twice and my cell phone twice and... .

Yes, she is so crazy that she will attack me and totally forget/ignore the damage she is doing to her injury. I however was very aware of that and avoided doing anything to send her more off balance. I got out of there and walked to the train station, thinking all the things I wanted to say to her that I hadn't. When I got to work she'd posted craziness on facebook which she's never done before, and we have many mutual friends many of whom are my coworkers (and relatives who could tell my mother) so I took down as much as I was able, changed my password to lock her out, and went to a party after work. Today I unfriended her. Probably won't last long.

She posted on facebook that she thinks she has intermittent rage disorder, and she well might. Sad thing is it's treated by all the meds she's already tried. 

This is the big realization I had and shared with her last night and she agreed--the raging part of her is probably not going to get any better. It's an actual issue in her brain and she has not responded to the treatments with no more violence. The DBT made her much much better, but she's incapable of controlling all of it.

She finally agrees with me that if there's any way to save this relationship we need to live apart for a while. I am so thrilled that we've talked about this and she agrees. If we're not living together, taking each other for granted, we could easily build on the good parts of what we have as a couple. And if she started raging I could just go home where it's calm and safe. And we'd get to see if that cats missed each other or not--they have that kind of relationship. And we'd know if we really wanted to be together for the rest of our lives.

Anyway, we're broke. I slept in the living room last night and hopefully will tonight though probably by then we'll be getting along. The main good excuse for not moving out is I have tons of possessions that I couldn't keep or afford to store if I had to move in with a room mate which is all I can afford. If She moved out, it would work better, but I'd still need help on the rent--I've got a lease for almost another full year and I like this apartment. And of course we both still want to be together against our better judgement--neither of us will get better if we stay in this apartment. Fact is, if we did want to do this now, I could borrow money from my mother's savings, but she kind of likes to keep her money for herself. If I really had to leave, I'd borrow it from her.

Her unemployment finally kicked in so things aren't as dire, and we'll continue.

Thank you for thinking about me but you don't have to worry.

[sjm7411]

I was getting anxiety just reading your last post.  You need to get out of there somehow.  This isn't healthy or safe for you - or her.  You said "If I really had to leave, I could borrow money"... . I think you really have to leave.  I'm pretty new here, so this is just my two cents... . I actually feel a real concern for you.  She could pull a knife on you during one of these rages and that would be it.   

[peacebaby]

I was getting anxiety just reading your last post.  You need to get out of there somehow.  This isn't healthy or safe for you - or her.  You said "If I really had to leave, I could borrow money"... . I think you really have to leave.  I'm pretty new here, so this is just my two cents... . I actually feel a real concern for you.  She could pull a knife on you during one of these rages and that would be it.   

Indeed that is the correct advice to give someone who's experiencing domestic violence.

[cult]

Peacebaby-

Thanks for the update. I am glad to hear that you have formulated a plan to shake up your situation. Similar things are going on for me. My partner of 10 years just turned 40 and has decided to move across the country without me and see other people... . we are calling it a breakup, but there's also the sense that this might be a mid-life crisis/phase that she is going through... . and we might find our way back to each other when it is all said and done... . I know that she is NEVER going to return from her new city, we lived there together for one year, she loved it, I hated it, so she came home to please me. Now she's got herself a job out there, again. I got a job out there too and was all ready to pack up and go with her to get our r/s back on track, but that was when she told me that even if I did move out too, she was planning to live by herself and date men. That's obviously not a situation I am willing to accept. Part of me is still devastated but another part of me is coming to believe that whatever way this goes, forever apart or back together in time, this is necessary for both of our sakes. Our r/s has been a train wreck for a long, long time and neither of us is our authentic selves. If we do reconcile in the future, it will either have to be long distance or I will have to relocate for her. If we are meant to be then it will all work out. And if we are not meant to be, it will also all work out. So hard to accept after 10 years and all of the promises made, but it is what it is and I am working hard to clean up "my side of the street" so that my next r/s, whether with her or someone new, will be healthy and life long. It's hard to start over at 44 but people do it all the time, right?

You will also be OK, Peacebaby, and if you and Carmel are meant to be then you will be.

[peacebaby]

Thanks Cult.   

Did you say both that your partner has recently discovered a past rape and is preparing to date men? This is a bizarrely natural reaction and has nothing to do with you, I imagine. My partner went through TONS of sexual abuse when she was a kid, and I was with her when she worked through it and believe me, being with someone working through these issues is no walk in the park. This stuff takes years to deal with, and chances are most relationships will be some kind of acting out. Ugh.

Yeah, Carmel and I will be together if we're supposed to. If I ever get out of here, it will be a long time until I live with her again, if ever.

And honestly I think my main reason for staying other than the LUV is laziness. It's easier for me to stay here in this than to do everything I need to do to separate. I got ISSUES and sh!t. And yeah, I'm almost 50, and that's a reason too.

[peacebaby]

Did I understand, you that you stay because you feel you are helping save Carmel?  

Just wanted to say, for the record, no. I don't think being with me is helping her at all these days. I used to think it was, and maybe it was in the past. But it would be better for us to be apart, for her as much as for me. I remember a decade ago I was shocked when she used the phrase "Shut up" and I laugh thinking about it now--she's said such horrible things over time and I've come to say them too. There are no boundaries on what we say to each other.  And yet and yet we're reading the high conflict couple together, and having lots of good conversations about our relationship. You just can't get out of these kinds of cycles while you're both resenting each other half the time and arguing about the smallest things.   Space is needed.