Is is wrong to be a woman and have more than one person you've slept with?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm not really new, just haven't been here in some time and am again feeling lost and don't know where to turn.

My H is what I believe high-functioning uBPD/narcissistic.

The main crux of our issues are as follows:

My husband will not forgive me. I honestly haven't asked because he has told me more times than I can count that he is incapable of forgiveness. We have kids and have been married 25 years and he is just so angry.

I love him dearly and love our family but I just don't know what to do. I have an older son but two younger girls so I just don't know if its better to keep the family together or remove them from the turmoil (they do not understand).

It stems from the fact that I slept with my previous boyfriend before I even knew my husband. I did not lie about it. He knew. He knew when we started dating well before we got married. It was a mistake for which I have asked and believe I have received forgiveness. Just not from my husband.

It consumes him no matter what else is going on. Any mistake I make is somehow because I am not a good person and am a terrible decision maker. Early in our marriage it was an occasional issue but in the last 5-6 years it has been an almost daily issue. I had all my fun before I met him (according to him).  I can't seem to do or show him that he's the most important person to me. Honestly, he's become so horrible that if it weren't for my struggle of what's best for the kids, I would have been out of here.  I love him but I don't really .oke him very much anymore,

He gets really nasty. He tells me that we're not really married, i am married to someone else.  I can't tell him I love him since I said that to someone else. He did these things too but since he's a man, it doesn't count. There are words, and times of year, I can't say because it makes him so angry. It's been so long, I don't understand why it's always present.

I wish he would have told me these things before we got married so I wouldn't have brought three unsuspecting kids into the world. They didn't deserve a broken family and they don't deserve the turmoil. I'm also scared because financially I can't support my kids and I think he would fight me at every corner and I feel immense guilt at the thought of putting them through that.

He has basically cut me off from my family.  He never said I couldn't see them, no, way more clever.  He would just get really angry about little things that he considered insults and so at the time I would stay away thinking it would blow over.  Time passed and the insults grew and grew in his mind.  I had young kids and I guess I was just weak as I wasn't up for the battle.  I think deep down he knew my family, especially my brother, knew he was controlling and that's why the insults I didn't really understand were blown so out of proportion.

On the narcissistic side, which to me is less bothersome, he takes credit for EVERYTHING.  If he can't deny someone else credit, he diminishes it as so irrelevant (even when it's clearly not).  He can't stand anyone else getting attention.  He complains if I'm quiet around his family (they will perceive that we're having trouble in our marriage, which is so tremendously humiliating to him) and if I talk, he hangs at my every word as if I'm going to say something embarrassing.

He tells me I have no friends, which is untrue.  I don't have a lot of close friends because I am too afraid to let anyone in on what is really going on.  He tells me I can't be around his friends because I embarrass him.  Some knew about my boyfriend thirty years ago and he feels demeaned that anyone would know his wife slept with someone else.  The fact that they all know he slept with many others and they are all married to people who slept with others, makes no difference.  I am the only scourge. 

He has to be the most interesting, first one to do anything.  If anyone mentions an interest that he's shared, he accuses them of copying him.  His sister in law only slept with his brother, even though it was before they were married (we only follow some of the rules).  She can do no wrong.  She's very sheltered and he "shows" her things (I don't mean sexually) and he seems to get some kind of twisted pleasure that he's enlightened her so much.  He's very gregarious and likes to be the center of attention.  God forbid anyone else get any and he either flips or sulks.

One time, I got frustrated with one of his friends wives who is very controlling and I am constantly hearing stories about how other people tell her off.  I said a very gentle but firm statement to her and now I can't do anything with them because he's too humiliated.  Nevermind that she's totally bossy and I wasn't insulting to her, just told her no thanks  I wasn't going to do what she wanted this time.

Writing this I can only think I want to get away.  I am only still here because I have younger kids and I want what's best for them.

If I left, or let him leave (I don't mean literally, but rather let him make the decision), I think he would torture us financially and emotionally.  I think he might abandon the kids, which may be isn't a horrible thing, but they didn't ask to go from a nice, comfortable life to total chaos.

I don't know what to do. Is there any hope?

[UnknownBPD]

I'm not really new, just haven't been here in some time and am again feeling lost and don't know where to turn.

My H is what I believe high-functioning uBPD/narcissistic.

The main crux of our issues are as follows:

My husband will not forgive me. I honestly haven't asked because he has told me more times than I can count that he is incapable of forgiveness. We have kids and have been married 25 years and he is just so angry.

I love him dearly and love our family but I just don't know what to do. I have an older son but two younger girls so I just don't know if its better to keep the family together or remove them from the turmoil (they do not understand).

It stems from the fact that I slept with my previous boyfriend before I even knew my husband. I did not lie about it. He knew. He knew when we started dating well before we got married. It was a mistake for which I have asked and believe I have received forgiveness. Just not from my husband.

It consumes him no matter what else is going on. Any mistake I make is somehow because I am not a good person and am a terrible decision maker. Early in our marriage it was an occasional issue but in the last 5-6 years it has been an almost daily issue. I had all my fun before I met him (according to him).  I can't seem to do or show him that he's the most important person to me. Honestly, he's become so horrible that if it weren't for my struggle of what's best for the kids, I would have been out of here.  I love him but I don't really .oke him very much anymore,

He gets really nasty. He tells me that we're not really married, i am married to someone else.  I can't tell him I love him since I said that to someone else. He did these things too but since he's a man, it doesn't count. There are words, and times of year, I can't say because it makes him so angry. It's been so long, I don't understand why it's always present.

I wish he would have told me these things before we got married so I wouldn't have brought three unsuspecting kids into the world. They didn't deserve a broken family and they don't deserve the turmoil. I'm also scared because financially I can't support my kids and I think he would fight me at every corner and I feel immense guilt at the thought of putting them through that.

He has basically cut me off from my family.  He never said I couldn't see them, no, way more clever.  He would just get really angry about little things that he considered insults and so at the time I would stay away thinking it would blow over.  Time passed and the insults grew and grew in his mind.  I had young kids and I guess I was just weak as I wasn't up for the battle.  I think deep down he knew my family, especially my brother, knew he was controlling and that's why the insults I didn't really understand were blown so out of proportion.

On the narcissistic side, which to me is less bothersome, he takes credit for EVERYTHING.  If he can't deny someone else credit, he diminishes it as so irrelevant (even when it's clearly not).  He can't stand anyone else getting attention.  He complains if I'm quiet around his family (they will perceive that we're having trouble in our marriage, which is so tremendously humiliating to him) and if I talk, he hangs at my every word as if I'm going to say something embarrassing.

He tells me I have no friends, which is untrue.  I don't have a lot of close friends because I am too afraid to let anyone in on what is really going on.  He tells me I can't be around his friends because I embarrass him.  Some knew about my boyfriend thirty years ago and he feels demeaned that anyone would know his wife slept with someone else.  The fact that they all know he slept with many others and they are all married to people who slept with others, makes no difference.  I am the only scourge. 

He has to be the most interesting, first one to do anything.  If anyone mentions an interest that he's shared, he accuses them of copying him.  His sister in law only slept with his brother, even though it was before they were married (we only follow some of the rules).  She can do no wrong.  She's very sheltered and he "shows" her things (I don't mean sexually) and he seems to get some kind of twisted pleasure that he's enlightened her so much.  He's very gregarious and likes to be the center of attention.  God forbid anyone else get any and he either flips or sulks.

One time, I got frustrated with one of his friends wives who is very controlling and I am constantly hearing stories about how other people tell her off.  I said a very gentle but firm statement to her and now I can't do anything with them because he's too humiliated.  Nevermind that she's totally bossy and I wasn't insulting to her, just told her no thanks  I wasn't going to do what she wanted this time.

Writing this I can only think I want to get away.  I am only still here because I have younger kids and I want what's best for them.

If I left, or let him leave (I don't mean literally, but rather let him make the decision), I think he would torture us financially and emotionally.  I think he might abandon the kids, which may be isn't a horrible thing, but they didn't ask to go from a nice, comfortable life to total chaos.

I don't know what to do. Is there any hope?

[SadWifeofBPD]

I think your H is my H's twin.

H never forgives.  His dad was the same.

Also,  my H constantly brings up something that I told him about my life before I met him.  If I had known that he was like that I never would have told him.  

I don't know if there is any hope.  My sister, a T, says that there isn't any hope that my H will get better because of how stubborn he is.

He can't stand anyone else getting attention. 

Yes!  My H can't even stand that I get attention on Mothers Day.  When at a restaurant and the hostess greeted me with a rose, H had to turn the issue into something about HIM.

[UnknownBPD]

Thanks sadwife.  I'm just at a loss.  I don't know how after all this time this is how bad it's gotten.

Does your H mull over things and then totally re characterize something that happened hours, days, week, months, years ago?  Like, huh, you didn't say anything then  and now it's a problem.

He's even told me that sometimes he has a dream that upsets him (me with someone else or some ridiculous thing) and then he wakes up and believes it happened and is now in a bad mood over it. Like yelling, saying horrible things.  How exactly am I supposed to deal with crazy thoughts that become true?

And all of this is my problem.  I am broken down and wish I could get out. 

[UnknownBPD]

I feel totally confused and am really looking for some rational feedback.

As I've mentioned the crux of our problem stems from the fact that I slept with my previous boyfriend.  We dated for two years and only slept together in the last few months.

My husband knew this, dated me and then married me.  Now 25 years later this is too much to bear.

Okay, clearly I know this was a mistake, but I feel it is a mistake many people have made.  I am not excusing it, but does that mean that no one is to be married and loved if they were ever with someone else?

I mean, I love him and he was with other people (how many, I don't know.  Me only one other).

Is is just wrong to be a woman and have more than one person you've slept with?

Does anyone have a husband who loves them even though they were with someone else?  Any husbands that have a wife that slept with someone else but still love your wife?

Or, are all promiscuous women supposed to never be married.

I thought this was all ridiculous, but maybe that's my problem.  Maybe no man should be with a woman who slept with someone else.

I am totally at a loss.  I don't have anyone I can ask.  

Please tell me if I'm the one who's wrong about thinking I still deserve to be loved.

I just need to know.

[musicfan42]

I'm going to jump into problem-solving mode here-

You say that you don't have the financial means to leave your husband. Could you do further education and training so that you could apply for some kind of job position? Maybe ask your husband to finance your studies? (just get him in a good mood, suck up to him for a while-all that SET, validation stuff etc will come in handy for that). Possible suggestions could be legal secretary, beautician, hairdresser etc... . it doesn't necessarily have to be a degree etc although that would obviously be preferential. You could open a new bank account that your hubby doesn't know about-try to stash some money away if at all possible. And obviously, once you finish your training, just bide your time til you can go.

Could you get the older son to help you out financially?

There are domestic violence charities that may be able to give you some ideas on how to leave etc-try and see if there's one nearby your local area.

Also, could your family help you financially? I know that you're not in contact with them now but maybe you could contact them and ask for financial help to get further education and training?

Just some ideas for you to think of.

[pullingmyhairout]

Of course you still deserve to be loved. My boyfriend and I joke around with each other about previous relationships! Neither one of us is threatened by them. That is just silly. He likes to say that he has learned something from every relationship he has been in. Some things good, somethings not so good, but all of it has helped make him the person he is.

To expect that no one comes with previous sexual history? That is crazy! At first I thought you meant you had slept with a previous boyfriend while in your current marriage. But to be bothered by someone your partner had a relationship with BEFORE they even knew you? That is the height of insecurity.

You just keep telling yourself that you DESERVE love. You do! You did nothing wrong!

[slimmiller]

It stems from the fact that I slept with my previous boyfriend before I even knew my husband. I did not lie about it. He knew. He knew when we started dating well before we got married. It was a mistake for which I have asked and believe I have received forgiveness. Just not from my husband.

My exBPD wife used the EXACT same excuse for her infidelity and our consequent split and divorce. She KNEW all the details of previous partners (which I regretted telling her later as it was none of her business) She begged to marry me AFTER she knew. She didnt like the fact but it didnt matter then because our relationship was so strong that the past didnt matter to her. Fast forward a few years and she slowly made it a problem by saying she cant deal with it anymore and eventually she ended it by cheating on me.

I begged her to go to counseling and lets work it out. Even split with 'boundaries' meaning no dating others etc to work things out. She never once tried it. She never wanted to solve it instead using it to hate on me for what ever reason.

It is NOT your fault even if he has you believing it to be. They slowly put us into the FOG and make us feel guilty and because we love them, we take a lot of the blame because we are not proud of our past. But its still not your fault. You asked for forgivness and that should be enough. There are few things in life more cruel then not forgiving someone in a case like this. Especailly since he is no better. None of us are.


I do not have any great insight or wisdom to give you other then you cant blame yourself.

Has he gone to counseling or is he willing to?

[slimmiller]

I feel totally confused and am really looking for some rational feedback.

As I've mentioned the crux of our problem stems from the fact that I slept with my previous boyfriend.  We dated for two years and only slept together in the last few months.

My husband knew this, dated me and then married me.  Now 25 years later this is too much to bear.Okay, clearly I know this was a mistake, but I feel it is a mistake many people have made.  I am not excusing it, but does that mean that no one is to be married and loved if they were ever with someone else?

I mean, I love him and he was with other people (how many, I don't know.  Me only one other).

Is is just wrong to be a woman and have more than one person you've slept with?

Does anyone have a husband who loves them even though they were with someone else?  Any husbands that have a wife that slept with someone else but still love your wife?

Or, are all promiscuous women supposed to never be married.

I thought this was all ridiculous, but maybe that's my problem.  Maybe no man should be with a woman who slept with someone else.

I am totally at a loss.  I don't have anyone I can ask. 

Please tell me if I'm the one who's wrong about thinking I still deserve to be loved.

I just need to know.

This is NOT the reason he is painting you black!  Theres a problem elsewhere in HIS life and he sees it as a problem in you instead (Mirroring)

(See my response to your other post)

Remember its not THE problem. He just instead 'chose' to make it a problem

[cult]

I feel totally confused and am really looking for some rational feedback.

As I've mentioned the crux of our problem stems from the fact that I slept with my previous boyfriend.  We dated for two years and only slept together in the last few months.

My husband knew this, dated me and then married me.  Now 25 years later this is too much to bear.

Okay, clearly I know this was a mistake, but I feel it is a mistake many people have made.  I am not excusing it, but does that mean that no one is to be married and loved if they were ever with someone else?

I mean, I love him and he was with other people (how many, I don't know.  Me only one other).

Is is just wrong to be a woman and have more than one person you've slept with?

Does anyone have a husband who loves them even though they were with someone else?  Any husbands that have a wife that slept with someone else but still love your wife?

Or, are all promiscuous women supposed to never be married.

I thought this was all ridiculous, but maybe that's my problem.  Maybe no man should be with a woman who slept with someone else.

I am totally at a loss.  I don't have anyone I can ask. 

Please tell me if I'm the one who's wrong about thinking I still deserve to be loved.

I just need to know.

I know how crazymaking it is to live with someone who is mentally ill. You were NOT wrong to have had a previous love, and in my opinion no reasonable person would think so. Your H is totally out of line here!

Just my humble opinion!

[raindancer]

Wow - your husband would want me burned at the stake, JS... . anyway, tayq

One other partner is not even the P in promiscuous. And, your previous life before H was not a mistake - it's the life you lived at the time, no more, no less, no mistake and you don't have to justify it now.

YES, you deserve to be loved.

NO, he should not be holding this against you.

I agree - sounds like he has some other issues that he's not addressing and is putting this on you for some reason... .

[KellyO]

Well, your husband would stone me to death then... . no, it is not wrong. It is totally your own business what you did with your ladyparts before you met him. And if it was so big issue for him, why did not he marry Virgin Mary then? But I know how you feel, my ex-bf was angry about me having sexlife before him... . I'm over 40 and I have been married! Disordered people seem to have strange issues when it comes this part of human life.

I'm  more conserned that he is using this one thing against you because he has noticed it works. He can hurt you with it. I believe if it would not be this thing, then it would be another. This is just something I have learned when living with my ex-bf. Something was always wrong. If I could fix whatever was wrong, he complained even about that.

I'm so sorry for you. You really haven't done anything wrong. It is him, not you. Remember that. You absolutely deserve love, and most important thing is that  you deserve your OWN love. Don't judge yourself because you have lived.

[SadWifeofBPD]

Your husband has successfully made you question your normal behavior.  That's BPD behavior.  He's got a normal, healthy wife questioning her own normal behavior (that he ALSO did!) 

The hypocrisy is also silly.  Heck, what would he do if you started saying that he's a XXXX because he slept with other women and now YOU can't get past that?  (that might be funny to try. )

Even if you hadn't slept with this prior BF, your H would have been angry that you told that BF that you loved him.  Right?  It's not the sex. 

Your H was able to "get past" all of this at the time he married you. 

I don't know if getting your H into a couple's therapy session to have this addressed.  I have found that some of the irrational things that H would claim when it was just the two of us, but in front of a therapist, H wouldn't say such stupid things. 

For example, If my H had been saying to me that it was ok for him to have slept with others before marriage, but not ok for me to have done so, H would not have been able to say that in front of a T.  Once in front of a T, H would be more rational.  This said (to me) that they often know that they're being irrational, but when no witnesses are around, they feel free to be that way. 

[SadWifeofBPD]

Does your H mull over things and then totally re characterize something that happened hours, days, week, months, years ago?  Like, huh, you didn't say anything then  and now it's a problem.

Yes!   OMG.  Yes, yes, yes!

He's even told me that sometimes he has a dream that upsets him (me with someone else or some ridiculous thing) and then he wakes up and believes it happened and is now in a bad mood over it. Like yelling, saying horrible things.  How exactly am I supposed to deal with crazy thoughts that become true?

Yes!  H will have a nightmare that involved me and he'll wake up mad at me!   

He also accused me of saying that his dad beat his mom (I never said that ever! His dad never hit his mom!).   He kept accusing me of saying that and even told his family that I said that.  I later realized that he probably DREAMED that I said that and believes it.   He also insisted that I said that his dad died from alcoholism.  His dad rarely EVER drank!  I would never have said that his dad was an alcoholic!  Yet, H told his family that I said that and insists that I did.  I think he had a dream where I said that. 

Very frustrating, and another reason why his family hates me.

[waverider]

To be honest this is his stuff

It is emotional abuse

Is the example he is setting for your kids really the best for them?

Kids get over break ups, they can be permanently damaged by dysfunctional parent role models

You need to start taking practical steps so that you have the option to stay or go, and you need to believe this

Then you will be in a position to present enforceable boundaries

He will not stop this entrenched dysfunctional and controlling behavior of his own accord, or by any reassurances you can give him.

You are entitled to respect

[waverider]

Does his family hate you or is that just his version?

Keep in mind he will twist what they supposedly said just as much a he will twist what you supposedly said

Direct communication with his family will bypass this two way BPD filter it probably goes through at the moment

[waverider]

This is just some massive insecurity issue he's got happening. This topic is just the hook he is hanging his hat on, and using it as a vehicle to project his insecurity onto you, so that you are now the one with 'guilt", and he is the victim.

Is there any religious or cultural background to his way of thinking?

[SadWifeofBPD]

Does his family hate you or is that just his version?

Keep in mind he will twist what they supposedly said just as much a he will twist what you supposedly said

Direct communication with his family will bypass this two way BPD filter it probably goes through at the moment

I first thought that he was just claiming that they hate me, because I have always been very pleasant around them (I've been a good guest in their home, helping with meals, helping with clean up, etc).  Plus, I (wrongly) assumed that they would have remembered how difficult H was as a child/teen/young adult and would have assumed that he was most of the problem.

However, I have actually seen emails from them and their words are absolutely shocking.  They do believe what he says.  It was shocking to read these letters.  One letter was especially painful because it was from his sister.  This sister and her H actually had to "throw H out" of their home one time because he wouldn't stop raging at them over a ridiculous reason (I witnessed this, he was angry at them because they had declined another relative's BBQ invite).  Another time she witnessed my H raging at our kids, and she had to come get me to get H to stop raging.  Then she hugged me and complimented my ability to calm my H down and she told me that H is a lot like their (raging) father.   So, of course I would have thought that she would have been more hesitant to believe his stories.  However, her letter to him was shockingly supportive to him, while very dismissive to me (and I've always been very polite and friendly to her.)

[Murbay]

It's a very interesting point. I think everybody has pretty much answered and said, it is not wrong and you haven't done anything that you should be concerned about. This is not your issue to deal with and it should not be held against you.

I think several people have already said, it seems to be an issue among those with disorders though but I can't understand why? I had no idea my ex had BPD until I started therapy towards the end of the marriage but these issues did present themselves.

My ex had an obession with my previous exgf, in the beginning we talked about our previous relationships and I had no issues with hers and it appeared she had no issues with mine at the start. She then went through a phase of finding them on facebook, befriending them and then trying to provoke arguments before asking me to step in and defend her. These were people from my past and although one or two were still good friends of mine, we have all moved on in our lives.

It didn't make sense in the beginning because I looked at it logically and I wouldn't go around contacting her exes and doing the same thing. However, when you add the illness into the equation, she was trying to eliminate anybody she considered would be a threat, despite the fact there was never a threat there in the first place. After reading what your H has said to you, I'm wondering if he is having an issue with that because he is perceiving abandonment.

From a BPD point of view, sex is used to fill a void. If he is thinking he is being rational, then he might perceive that you would run back to that person because you had an intimate moment with someone else besides him. As part of issues leading up to my divorce, my ex was convinced I was running back to my exgf because she is now single. She isn't single, she just changed her facebook profile pic, which is how I know my ex was spying on her. I spent almost 10 years with exgf and we have 2 children, but again that is the past and my exBPDw could never see past that.

What you did was not wrong and you should not be held accountable for his perception on something that happened over 25 years ago.

[SadWifeofBPD]

From a BPD point of view, sex is used to fill a void. If he is thinking he is being rational, then he might perceive that you would run back to that person because you had an intimate moment with someone else besides him. As part of issues leading up to my divorce, my ex was convinced I was running back to my exgf because she is now single. She isn't single, she just changed her facebook profile pic, which is how I know my ex was spying on her. I spent almost 10 years with exgf and we have 2 children, but again that is the past and my exBPDw could never see past that.

What you did was not wrong and you should not be held accountable for his perception on something that happened over 25 years ago.

There must be some abandonment fear that is going on or fear of comparison. 

I do remember when H and I were seriously dating.  He and I had shared basic info about previous BFs and GFs (length of relationships, why they ended, etc).  H often mentioned the sexual aspects of these relationships, while I had not with one exception.  ONE TIME, I made a seemingly harmless sexual comment about a previous long-term BF (and it wasn't flattering about the exBF at ALL), and H became VERY jealous.  (This surprised me because what I had said was critical of the exBF!)    From then on, I never said any thing like that (sexually), even tho he regularly talked about what went on between him and former GFs (positions, frequency, likes, dislikes, etc).  I always thought it was odd that he didn't see the very obvious hypocrisy, nor did it seem to cross his mind that I wouldn't want to hear these details. 


I don't know if this woman's H would be open to this, but I would suggest that they go to a T, bring up the subject and the problem, and see how the T would address it.  I think that with a 3rd party present, the H isn't going to want to appear to be a big ole hypocrite.  But, if he does, the T may confront about that.  When we had a Couple's T, that T would confront H about a number of things.

[GreenMango]

Hi unknownBPD

Take a look at the decision making guide here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.0

It can be emotionally exhausting to be undecided.  And having a plan to cone to a decision can give a sense of control on the things you can control.  Things get really hard when we let a person with a mental illness lead.

On side note checking into those solutions others have mentioned is a good idea.  It doesn't mean you make a decision today - its the fact finding stage to better inform your decision later.  DV shelter for an escape plan, lawyer for some info on what to expect realistically, counseling to get to a stronger place, and maybe some of the workshops - boundaries, communication, and typical BPD behavior.

These will all help.

Do you have a counselor just for you?  The support could be wonderful.

[SadWifeofBPD]

He will not stop this entrenched dysfunctional and controlling behavior of his own accord, or by any reassurances you can give him.

I agree.  And, I don't think therapy can "cure" this type of BPD, at least not in a timely fashion. 

JMO, but pwBPD who truly believe that they're the victims have so much invested into perpetuating this belief, and its what they use to justify their rages, so the LAST thing they want to do is "work on their issues" in therapy because that would mean that they've been "bad" all these years.

[waverider]

He will not stop this entrenched dysfunctional and controlling behavior of his own accord, or by any reassurances you can give him.

I agree.  And, I don't think therapy can "cure" this type of BPD, at least not in a timely fashion. 

JMO, but pwBPD who truly believe that they're the victims have so much invested into perpetuating this belief, and its what they use to justify their rages, so the LAST thing they want to do is "work on their issues" in therapy because that would mean that they've been "bad" all these years.

It is their comfort blanket, when my partner finally came to acceptance of the diag, facing the responsibility for lifes dramas without a quick fix pill was such a shock it led to a repetitive cycle of ODs and relapse into alcoholism.

[waverider]

Does his family hate you or is that just his version?

Keep in mind he will twist what they supposedly said just as much a he will twist what you supposedly said

Direct communication with his family will bypass this two way BPD filter it probably goes through at the moment

I first thought that he was just claiming that they hate me, because I have always been very pleasant around them (I've been a good guest in their home, helping with meals, helping with clean up, etc).  Plus, I (wrongly) assumed that they would have remembered how difficult H was as a child/teen/young adult and would have assumed that he was most of the problem.

However, I have actually seen emails from them and their words are absolutely shocking.  They do believe what he says.  It was shocking to read these letters.  One letter was especially painful because it was from his sister.  This sister and her H actually had to "throw H out" of their home one time because he wouldn't stop raging at them over a ridiculous reason (I witnessed this, he was angry at them because they had declined another relative's BBQ invite).  Another time she witnessed my H raging at our kids, and she had to come get me to get H to stop raging.  Then she hugged me and complimented my ability to calm my H down and she told me that H is a lot like their (raging) father.   So, of course I would have thought that she would have been more hesitant to believe his stories.  However, her letter to him was shockingly supportive to him, while very dismissive to me (and I've always been very polite and friendly to her.)

It is possible there are PD characteristics within the family and their is cycling black and white thinking within the family background. It is often safer to assume you will get little back up from the in laws in a crisis, unless they have demonstrated otherwise.

[SadWifeofBPD]

Does his family hate you or is that just his version?

Keep in mind he will twist what they supposedly said just as much a he will twist what you supposedly said

Direct communication with his family will bypass this two way BPD filter it probably goes through at the moment

I first thought that he was just claiming that they hate me, because I have always been very pleasant around them (I've been a good guest in their home, helping with meals, helping with clean up, etc).  Plus, I (wrongly) assumed that they would have remembered how difficult H was as a child/teen/young adult and would have assumed that he was most of the problem.

However, I have actually seen emails from them and their words are absolutely shocking.  They do believe what he says.  It was shocking to read these letters.  One letter was especially painful because it was from his sister.  This sister and her H actually had to "throw H out" of their home one time because he wouldn't stop raging at them over a ridiculous reason (I witnessed this, he was angry at them because they had declined another relative's BBQ invite).  Another time she witnessed my H raging at our kids, and she had to come get me to get H to stop raging.  Then she hugged me and complimented my ability to calm my H down and she told me that H is a lot like their (raging) father.   So, of course I would have thought that she would have been more hesitant to believe his stories.  However, her letter to him was shockingly supportive to him, while very dismissive to me (and I've always been very polite and friendly to her.)

It is possible there are PD characteristics within the family and their is cycling black and white thinking within the family background. It is often safer to assume you will get little back up from the in laws in a crisis, unless they have demonstrated otherwise.

Yes, there is a cycling black and white thinking that has long existed in this family.  I have been painted black because:

1) H wrongly accused me of having an affair about 7 years ago, and he told them that I had cheated on him, but once he realized he was wrong, he never adequately corrected that with his family.  

2) H told his family that I said that their father beat their mom (which I NEVER said... . his dad was NOT the type to hit a woman ever).

3) H told his family that I said that their dad died from alcoholism (which I never did - his dad was NOT a drinker).

4) H did become an alcoholic (both of his grandfathers were alcoholics) and H blamed me for his addiction and his family believes that.  So, their "drumbeat" has been, "you need to get away from your wife since she's the reason that you drink".

5) H has been VERY critical of his family over the years (saying that they're stupid, idiots, have no common sense, etc)... . but to get them on his side in recent years, he told them that I said all of those things.  I admit that I would agree with H when he said these things because they really are true in many ways, but I was not the origin of those remarks.  

[UnknownBPD]

 Thanks for the replies.

I go between he's totally out of line and maybe he has a point.  He certainly uses it when he gets mad.  He can link everything I do, from taking out the trash to dealing with the kids or paying bills, to the "fact" that I was a whore before we met.

He cannot deal with anyone who even knew my ex.  We were in college.  It was nearly 30 years ago.  I have been distracted with normal life, kids, etc. and I just feel like all the little things that I just let go and let him get his way because it wasn't worth a fight have just snowballed into my current situation.

I don't know if its him or me.  He's very convincing.  He tells me that I got everything I wanted.  A family.  All he wanted was a virgin.  He can never have what he wanted.  He doesn't know if he can live with it.  What about all the points along the way?  Why after we got married?  We dated for years before we got married.  Why after a kid?  After 3 kids?  Why now?

He says he could leave me now and still find someone who had slept with the same number of people but because they are older it would be okay.  He would rather get rid of me and our kids, which he says he doesn't care about, and go with someone else whose slept with someone else.

He acts like he cares about them.  Tells them he loves them and then flips a switch.

He has words that set him off.  Clearly, virgin.  In a movie, tv show, book, ordering a cocktail.  But there are other words that he has started freaking out over.  It's like what the H just happened?  Having a normal conversation and then he flips.  I've learned some new words... . why now?

He is genius about making everything about my past.  And it sounds horrendous.  I'm not proud, but it was really only one guy for a short time at the end of a long relationship.

I'm just figuring out what to do.  I can't support my kids.  I know he will fight giving me anything.  Just to be difficult.  If I get anything he will feel like I've taken him for a ride.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback.  I am just struggling to understand normal.  I don't know if I'd recognize it anymore.

[UnknownBPD]

Thanks for all the replies.

He will NEVER go to a T.  Has always said it was bunk.  I think I understand why.

He doesn't think he is a hypocrite because women are supposed to "save" themselves for their H ( or at least him).  Men are just supposed to provide.  He does his part, I don't (can't and he knew it) do mine.

It was a slow progression.  I didn't really see all the little pieces until now it is every part of my life.  I did this because I'm a slut, I did that because I'm a slut.

He constantly tells me he can do things but I can't. It's not tit for tat.  He gets really mad if I even suggest sexual equality.  It didn't start this way.  I don't know if its a midlife crisis super sized or if he's got a chemical imbalance or he just know he can control me with it (make me feel worthless and like I better stick it out cuz no one would ever put up with the likes of me) or he really truly believes this.

I do know he doesn't think he's wrong.  If you even suggest that maybe he's off, he gets angry.

One time recently we were chatting with a friend about some little thing.  I was distracted by one of the kids and then turned and answered a question not realizing I had contradicted him.  He laid into me but very clever.  Turns out I was right and he couldn't dispute it and he threw my purse against the wall and everything fell out.  Not, I'm sorry, you were right.  Nope. 

Anyway no therapy for him.  I may see someone but know I have to be ready to leave when I do and I'm just not sure I'm there yet.

[Murbay]

Unknown, there is no better time to start to make those changes than in the present moment.

I understand where you are at in terms of wanting to be ready to leave before you seek out help because there was a time I felt the same way. I learned through the experience that the best time to seek out help is right now because it is the start of a process to help you.

By seeking out help, it could actually save the relationship because you will be in a much better place, emotionally and mentally and that prompt your H to seek out help himself if he is worried about you leaving him. On the other hand, if things continue down the road they are doing, by being in a better place within yourself, it will give you the strength and the boundaries to be able to move forward.

My T was very aware of the situation since he had actually started out as my exBPDw T. Although he knew leaving the relationship was what I needed to preserve myself, he never pushed on the matter. Instead he asked me to make those choices and for the several months where I decided I wanted to work through things and try and make the marriage work, he provided me the tools in which to protect myself.

There is no better time than right now to make those changes but you need to do what you feel is best for you right now.

[SadWifeofBPD]

How old are your children?

He says he could leave me now and still find someone who had slept with the same number of people but because they are older it would be okay.  He would rather get rid of me and our kids, which he says he doesn't care about, and go with someone else whose slept with someone else.

Ok, that's just crazy and surely you know that.  He doesn't really know what he wants.  If he actually were with an "older woman" with a "past", he wouldn't feel good about that either.  He'd soon start obsessing about the men in her past as well. 

I think it's common for pwBPD to think that they will like or not like various things that they've never experienced before.  That's part of their immaturity.

[GreenMango]

Its a tricky and heart wrenching situation for you.  Sometimes the paranoia and distorted thinking can get really bad - if you read around you'll notice some stories where it started to get worse.

Here's something to consider.  Post on undecided for the choosing a path - post on staying for the functional advice on the communication methods and how to manage the relationship.

One thing I would post on staying is how to handle this particular conversation regarding the one previous partner and the whole virgin/sex thing.  I'm guessing you need to take this conversation off the table at some point permanently if its become a way to emotionally torment you.  It's become a circular one not really geared towards solutions - its more of a way for him to vent out his emotions out instead of dealing with his insecurities and fears.  Theres a way to do this that helps to enforce boundaries and minimizing the conflict.  Ask the stayers for sure.

Have you read the workshop on SET, circular arguments, etc?

Ps this isn't about you, you didn't do anything wrong having a relationship or sex before him.  It's that you had someone in your life before him - that's the threat as ridiculous as it sounds.  That is what its about for him is my guess.  But it easy to have clarity on things he can't seem to see - but then again you aren't blinded by irrational thoughts and emotions.

[waverider]

You are going to need some kind of boundary about the topic even being raised. It is obviously just going round and round going nowhere.It is just causing pain. This is his issue, if he wants to get it out of his system he needs to go seek therapy. Dumping it on you has got to the point that it is just emotional abuse pure and simple and needs to be stamped out