fluid time and role playing

[Depression = 72% of members]

thought just occurred to me about some confusion and conflicts i've been thinking about. in particular the roles both nons and pwBPD play. about the relationship, before, during and after.

lots of confusion--is this person a genuine caring being or are they the antichrist? dig deep and you see that both are true. but how can this be?

am i a victim or a persecutor? again, both. how's this possible?

furious/feeling good :: detached/enmeshed :: manipulator/manipulatee ?

the common thread i find is time. it depends on the time. all of the above are simply two sides of the same coin, opposites perhaps, but still bound together.

i read on these boards advice given to nons saying "no, you are *not* a victim, look at the part you played". it doesn't sit well with me... . but i know it's also true. why can't i make sense of it? Timing. depends on the time

we vacillate between seeing the evil in a pwBPD's actions then stumble when thinking about part of the r/s that we *know* inside wasn't fake. even if some of it wasn't real, not all was fake. how to make sense of this? time

a quote from a good book "there are no paradoxes in nature. if you think you've found a paradox then you're incorrect. there's only the truth and the lie. if you can't tell the difference then you need to check your premises". <--that's paraphrasing btw

checking my premises i think that time is the missing element. the third dimension that was missing from my understanding. everything is so confusing because everything was so true, and everything was a lie. and there's no conflict here because both are the truth, it just depended on the time.

there were times when you felt good and things weren't good. there were times that were horrible and you unnecessarily facilitated it. sure. but there were also times that were good that really were good. and there were times that were bad that were the definition of evil itself, and you saw the truth here also. putting the pieces together it's important to look at all four possibilities, 2 fake and 2 truth. seeing our parts in the two false times (good & bad) and also seeing our beauty in the two true times will help formulate the total picture

[goldylamont]

thought just occurred to me about some confusion and conflicts i've been thinking about. in particular the roles both nons and pwBPD play. about the relationship, before, during and after.

lots of confusion--is this person a genuine caring being or are they the antichrist? dig deep and you see that both are true. but how can this be?

am i a victim or a persecutor? again, both. how's this possible?

furious/feeling good :: detached/enmeshed :: manipulator/manipulatee ?

the common thread i find is time. it depends on the time. all of the above are simply two sides of the same coin, opposites perhaps, but still bound together.

i read on these boards advice given to nons saying "no, you are *not* a victim, look at the part you played". it doesn't sit well with me... . but i know it's also true. why can't i make sense of it? Timing. depends on the time

we vacillate between seeing the evil in a pwBPD's actions then stumble when thinking about part of the r/s that we *know* inside wasn't fake. even if some of it wasn't real, not all was fake. how to make sense of this? time

a quote from a good book "there are no paradoxes in nature. if you think you've found a paradox then you're incorrect. there's only the truth and the lie. if you can't tell the difference then you need to check your premises". <--that's paraphrasing btw

checking my premises i think that time is the missing element. the third dimension that was missing from my understanding. everything is so confusing because everything was so true, and everything was a lie. and there's no conflict here because both are the truth, it just depended on the time.

there were times when you felt good and things weren't good. there were times that were horrible and you unnecessarily facilitated it. sure. but there were also times that were good that really were good. and there were times that were bad that were the definition of evil itself, and you saw the truth here also. putting the pieces together it's important to look at all four possibilities, 2 fake and 2 truth. seeing our parts in the two false times (good & bad) and also seeing our beauty in the two true times will help formulate the total picture

[laelle]

Hey Goldylamont,

I must admit you have challenged my own brain cells here.    I get that the reason it is so hard to comprehend because truth and lies have trouble existing together, and yet we know that they did in this relationship.  I dont follow the rest, but im eager to learn.


 Laelle

[winston72]

Hey, Goldylamont... . really helpful post.  Among other things, it highlights that my personality played a big role in the dance between us.  It also puts a hedge on my desire to think about the relationship in a black/white paradigm.  As we are no longer together, there is a tendency to turn all of it to black... . so much easier to put it behind me that way.  But, of course, that allows me to sidestep my part in the story.  And I also have cycles where I paint it all white with nostalgia and longing for the warm and loving times.  As you say, they are both true as they are components of a complex human being and a complex relationship between two human beings.

[goldylamont]

yes i think what i'm trying to say is that all of it was true at one point of the relationship or another. and i can see four possibilities for any event that happened. four, because it's 2x2=4. 2 people X (good/bad). i'm still figuring it out myself, and i feel in a way perhaps healing as it's bring more understanding. consider this:

The Truth:

1) Normal R/S: Good times you had together that were genuine for both partners. You both felt good because it was genuinely good

2) Hater Phase: Bad times. Your perception was right and knew things were bad

The False:

3) Normal R/S: You behaved bad, or acted out. You made mistakes because of your own issues not having to do with BPD at all.

4) Idealization: You felt good, but on a false premises. This wasn't the same as #1 above

I think most of the r/s would fall into one of these four categories. For myself i feel like most of what i experience were 1 and 2, with some 3 and 4 peppered in there