Using Jealousy as a weapon

[mcc503764]

Hi everyone -

Just wanted to pose a question for the board... . did your xBPD use jealousy as a weapon to hurt you?

Is there something wrong with me that I am so sucepptable to this?  I have identified my own self esteem issues and am actively working on them, but when my x throws blatent attacks against me using jealousy, it cuts me to the core!

I know that she uses that to hurt me... . to get a reaction out of me.  Why is she so mean?  I mean doesnt common consideration ever come into play here?

And yes, I know the answers to these questions, I know the reasons why, but I am just venting I guess.

Her talks about her "dating life," her "man benders?"  How she "bit a guys tounge" when kissing him... . why in the hell would she even think that it would be ok to tell me about these things?  That's not respect, that tells me what she thinks of me... .

Was she lying?  who knows... . it just REALLY cut me pretty deep.

Thoughts

MCC

[Lucky Jim]

Hey MCC5, In my view, those w/BPD are experts at manipulation and jealousy is only one of many weapons in their arsenal.  My guess is that it's just an attempt to get a reaction out of you.  Best thing for you to do is not to take the bait, though I understand that can sometimes be hard.  Hang in there, LuckyJim

[spaceace]

This really caught my eye... . My wife had said when we first met, her biggest thing was cheating... . that would never be tolerated. YET... . throughout our marriage, I heard stories of her past, and I really didn't need to know them. AND, I would constantly hear about guys hitting on her? Really? What good does it do to tell me these things? Her response was, she just wanted me to be aware and she thought it was important that she was totally honest with me. But, it never felt that way... . It always felt like, when things were wonky between us, she would hit me with another "some guy" story... . It always made me feel uncomfortable... .

[lounap23]

I am not an expert or anything and I am very new to this board. With that said my eXuBPD, who is a very beautiful woman, would always tell me things to get a rise out of me.  She works in an upscale retail store in a very touristy part of town.  So she would always talk about how this guy gave her her number or that guy bought her lunch or how some guys invited her to go out to the clubs with them while they were in town. Lots of stupid stuff. Anyway, in a round about way I am saying yes they try to get you jealous. My wife never was angry or looking to fight with me about it but she was looking for me to say well you are beautiful and be careful and all of that kind of stuff.  It's certainly a weapon in their repertoire.

[mcc503764]

I kind of figured that it was common, but I am interested to hear of others experiences as well.  We've recycled so many times now that it's irrelevant at this point.

It just blows my mind I guess.  She will tell me these things and then in the same sentence tell me "if you're dating someone, I don't want to know about it?"

I guess my rational mind tells me, if she gets jealous, doesn't that tell her something? 

Out of respect for her, I didn't rub her nose in any of my personal stories, because she didn't need to know about any of them because it didn't concern her!  She tried to justify it by using the "total honesty" excuse, but shouldn't common sense tell you differently in regards to this one?

It's funny how they can do it to others, but when you do it to them, it's wrong!  Jesus

MCC

[bpdspell]

did your xBPD use jealousy as a weapon to hurt you?... .

Is there something wrong with me that I am so sucepptable to this?

MCC

Um. Why are you giving her an opportunity to play child games of attention seeking with you? Why are you putting yourself in a position to even listen to that crap-ola? Let the other guys have her and give yourself back the gift of your sanity.

As for your jealousy the tactic is called triangulation (read definition). It's when they're at the center of being coveted by two competing energies. They will triangulate with the kids, the dog or a can of Pepsi. Doesn't matter. It strokes their egos and makes them feel valuable, wanted, desired, and fake powerful. It's also insidious abuse because it chips away at our already eroded self-worth.

Do yourself a favor and take yourself out the triangle. A stool with two legs always falls.

There's nothing wrong with you. But allowing your ex to rub her life into your face is something you can prevent. You aren't powerless here. My ex played those stupid games and when I didn't know any better I played right along because I wasn't ready to fully let go. I still had desperate hope. I fell for the emotional bear trap of triangulation (read definition) and honestly it's their way of punishing you and measuring your threshold of disrespect. It's like "how bad do you want me" and " are you willing to sacrifice your self worth to have me?" kind of mind control. It's also their way of saying "Screw you... . look how replaceable! you are!". But it's an continual emotional slap on both cheeks if we don't learn how to walk away for good.

I've got to hand it to them. They know how to beer tap your low self-esteem and have a drink. Ever see a cat play with a dead mouse? Just disrespectful.

[seeking balance]

pwBPD use maladaptive coping tools to help ease THEIR emotional issues - jealousy is one of those tools.

Does it HURT you?  Yes

Why do they do it?  There are many different answers depending upon what is triggered in the pwBPD.  Possibly they perceive you have hurt them, thus want to hurt you back.  Possibly not about you at all, they just need to feel better about themselves and that extra attention does the trick.

At any rate, keep in mind that we can only control our feelings.  If we are hurt by an action of another and they know it, the best thing we can do to protect ourselves is BOUNDARIES. 

Peace,

SB

[mcc503764]

I appreciate the responses.  I have laid firm boundaries.  I told her that I was sick of the treatment.  I was sick of the games, lies, and manipulations. 

I told her how her actions and behaviors were not respectful of me and my feelings.  I told her that I was not her fallback guy.  I told her how her actions didnt demonstrate any value to me as a person.

This was about 2 weeks ago, I havent talked to her since.

Sure it hurts and still resonates in my mind, why else would I post on this board?  .  But I at times need reaffirmation that I made the right choice!

I am working on myself, regaining the esteem and worth that was sucked out of me during that r/s.  As we all know, it takes time and everyone has to go through their own personal healing process.

I think she was kind of dumbfounded when I told her these things.  It felt good / freeing because this is the first time in 4 years that I have done that!  That was my first step to retreiving my emotional balls from her purse!

What always baffled me was the fact that she is a therapist?  I never understood how she could possibly function in her prof life and have such a trainwreck iof a personal life?  I feel for her clients, that's for sure!

Thanks everyone!

MCC

[winston72]

Oh, man, this string has been really helpful to me.  Thank you.

The last bit of our relationship ended over an event when my gf went for drinks and dinner with a man from a place where she works. She told me about it in advance, but in a way that felt uncofmortable to me, then she called me after the dinner... . it was only supposed to be drinks, and described the evening.  I asked her if it was a "date" and she answered, "I don't know."  :)rive a nail into my heart.  Things had been difficult between us and I had pulled back a bit, so I could see this was a response from her to make me jealous and hurt me.  And, she succeeded.  She had cheated on me before so it brought flashbacks of the earlier events.  I explained all of this to her and my pain and outrage that she could even risk triggering these feelings in me.  She told me she was "just being totally honest with me."  It is the same phrasing as posted above by MCC503764.  So, I told her I appreciated her honesty, but not her actions.  But, because she was telling me about it, she was therefore not responsible for the behavior.

Anyway, my initial reactions were to tell myself that I should not be jealous... . that I should just let it go.  That odd first response of minimizing my feelings, when really I want to be vulnerable and spontaneous in the comfort of knowing that she would not put me in a spot where I could be hurt in such a way.  The prospect of betrayal after a history of betrayal was/is horrible, absolutely horrible.  

It was the final straw for us.  

[VeryFree]

Mine did not. She was alway jealous herself about a lot of things, but never used it to get a reaction... . I think.

Probably not the most useful weapon in our r/s, because I'm not the jealous type. Always had something like: I'm interested in your past, but will not care about the rights or wrongs.

Same thing when good things happen to other people: nice for them, but not really projecting it on my own situation.

[seeking balance]

I am working on myself, regaining the esteem and worth that was sucked out of me during that r/s.  As we all know, it takes time and everyone has to go through their own personal healing process.

I think she was kind of dumbfounded when I told her these things.  It felt good / freeing because this is the first time in 4 years that I have done that!  That was my first step to retreiving my emotional balls from her purse!

good for you to take control of your own emotional well-being.  Setting the boundaries is the easy part, enforcing them when in FOG is really the difficult part.  The longer you are away, you will start to feel the sadness and depression, perhaps remember to refer back to this post if you are tempted to go back when in a more vulnerable emotional state.

What always baffled me was the fact that she is a therapist?  I never understood how she could possibly function in her prof life and have such a trainwreck iof a personal life?  I feel for her clients, that's for sure!

The more you read on the disorder, you will come across this as more common than you think.  Just because she cannot "practice" what she discusses, she likely knows the right course of action.  Because she has a great ability to mirror, her patients likely get a sense of belonging and security that is very important to therapy.  She likely could be a good therapist in practice, just not in living her own life.

Sounds crazy, I know - but very much a reality.

Keep focused on you as it sounds like you are doing.

Peace,

SB

[winston72]

My post crossed yours, MC.  My calling it off over her "I don't know" when I asked her if it was a date was a shock to her.  She thought I was over-reacting and was being stupid.  It was less of an offence by her than her previous cheating, so it was a surprise for her.  But, it was my discovery of a boundary, of some respect for my own feelings... . a surprise to me, frankly.  As I type this, I see that she minimized my feelings in the same fashion that I minimized them.  Or, better said, she probably minimized my feelings because I did... .

Anyway, the discovery of some self respect was and is a good thing for me... . obviously!

[mcc503764]

I just wanted to thank everyone who has added to this thread! 

I just also could never get over how she could emotionally paint me into corners with her actions, lies, manipulations.  Push me to the point to where I would have NO other choice then to react (ie break-up the r/s, set boundaries, etc,) and then actually have the audicaty to play the "victim" from my reaction for the situation that SHE created in the first place? 

It's so completely circular, it makes my head spin even typing this!

Every recycle, same thing.  Lure me in, play with my emotions, once hooked slowly pull away... . resorting to using "self-care" or "all I have to offer if friendship" as her catch all excuse.

2 years since the divorce, countless recycles later, same patterns, same behaviors. 

It's true, when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, you'll stop being sick and tired!

One day at a time!

thanks everyone!

MCC

[tomjon78]

Ohh yes... . it was used as a number one weapon in my relationship with my ex.

I almost feel stupid to let myself listen to all of his. I many times asked her to stop, but she always found a way to use this. Constantly talking about exes:

-how they hurt her

-how good they were to her (contradiction I know)

-told me about their sex life

-went to talk to them when we were out having drinks and left me at the table... . occured 2 times.

etc. etc... .

I won´t even go further because the list is to long. The strangest part is how they manage to do this and I found it very hard to find boundaries.

Somehow she didn´t see this... . she admitted that she wen´t to far talking about this and then somehow just didn´t stop.

That´s the strange part about BPD... . they just don´t see it... . if they do, their brain somehow manages to twist it in their favour and you/spouses of BPD get to suffer.

It sucks and it really, really hurts.

[mcc503764]

Yes it hurts, but I think I have finally come to acceptance that this is NOT MY problem. 

The lies she told me were too much.  I guess I wanted to believe her because I do care for her, but it just really got to the point to where she was insulting my intellegence with her bs!

I guess the silver lining from all of this is:

- I've developed a strong sense of myself

- I've learned about the importance of setting boundaries

- I've learned what I will NOT tolerate in my next r/s

- I've learned that I canot control another person, and no matter how hard I try and "make it better," it is the sole responsibility of the other individual to have responsibility / accountability for their actions

- There is a difference between "helping" and "rescuing." 

- And the biggest one... . IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT ME FOR WHO I AM... . MOVE ALONG!

Thanks!

MCC

[seeking balance]

- I've developed a strong sense of myself

- I've learned about the importance of setting boundaries

- I've learned what I will NOT tolerate in my next r/s

- I've learned that I canot control another person, and no matter how hard I try and "make it better," it is the sole responsibility of the other individual to have responsibility / accountability for their actions

- There is a difference between "helping" and "rescuing." 

- And the biggest one... . IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT ME FOR WHO I AM... . MOVE ALONG!

Can I get an "amen" brother... .

Seriously, good stuff in this!

[mcc503764]

   

[Trick1004]

This was one of my ex girlfriends favorite weapons. She worked at a bar and was constantly telling me how much she would get hit on and when other men were around would always need to be the center of attention. Like I was lucky to have her, cause she could be with any of these losers hanging out at the bar every night.

I almost broke up with her several times because of it, but then out would come her other great tool, CIRCULAR REASONING and point it back at me!

"You're just being jealous."

"I would never do anything."

"I'm with you and I love you."

and my personal favorite;

"This is the way I am, if you love me you will trust me."

I told her once, "Well if you love me, you would quit doing stuff like that." That response unleashed probably the biggest rage incident during my relationship with her!

Glad to be done with it.

[stop2think]

mcc503764,

I might be an exception here, where a non used jealousy (may be) at times to get a PDs attention or reaction - probably this made me feel like he really loved me and has feelings for me. This was more during the devaluation or the time when i felt he was changing or withdrawing slowly.

He would usually react (anger) to me going out with friends, or partying or when someone is around me. I dint want to make him 'jealous' really but to get his reaction mostly.

I might be wrong, but it seems like this trait is more prevelant in females (PDs). Possibly use this as a weapon for the same reason that i did.

Possibly this was on of the reasons i felt like i was a BPD too. Not sure if this a codependency issue.

[danley]

While together my ex never did anything to make me jealous. However, he would frequently get jealous over things with me. He'd get jealous if guys he thought liked me would talk to me. He'd get jealous if I'd go out without him. He'd get jealous when I'd talk to people at work who he didn't like. And when I say talk, it could be something as small as me just saying HI. But the bigger problem was his paranoia about it all.

After we broke up a few months ago I believe my ex got jealous that I was going to celebrate my bday with some friends(one of whom has liked me for years but the feelings not mutual). My ex was mad but couldn't say anything due to us being broken up. Soon after this my ex started acting secretive and scurrying off to the side to text someone. I didn't say anything. A few weeks later he voluntarily announces how he invited his daughters mom to his vacation with his kids. He waited for a reaction but I didn't say anything. Then seconds later he says she couldn't make it anyway. WHY the heck would you bring that up only to tell me she's not going? A few days later he tells me he might be interested in someone. I was annoyed but told him if that's what he wants than I wish him happiness. I questioned his contradictory statements of not wanting to be in a relationship but yet he's engaging with someone new. He exploded and said he KNEW I'd be mad if he told me he was talking to someone else. His explosion made me feel like he was testing me and purposely trying to get a reaction from me. I also believe that he was holding a grudge against me since speaking of my bday celebration with friends. BUT that's just MY theory.

Don't get me started on the triangulation (read definition) that came after. In a nutshell he voluntarily announced out of nowhere that he told this new person about me and our history. I'm pretty sure he told her that I was ALL OVER HIM. In short he said she was worried about him talking to me and the fact we work closely together. Another time he called me to talk about things between us and without my knowledge he chose to continue speaking even tho he was suppose to meet the new person. Then he blamed me that she was angry at him for being an hour late to meet her. He said I put him in another compromising position. When he said ANOTHER, I assume he meant our relationship in general. I told him it wasn't my fault and told him I was gonna hang up so he could go meet her.

Yes I believe they use jealousy as a weapon. But anyone, BPD or not, is capable of using jealousy as a weapon. I think when people feel neglected by someone they may do things to get their attention.

[Numbers]

Bingo topic. I was thinking about this while driving to work today.

I can honestly say that out of all rages, petty arguments, entitlement, vindications and instabilities, this jealousy-making mechanic was by far most damaging to me. It eroded my self respect and destroyed trust. In hindsight, I can now recognize so many occasions where other men were rubbed right into my face. Sometimes these were small, innocent statements, sometimes it was drawing parallels to exes, friends or just random people, and then sometimes it was outright flirting, preferably if I was around. Texting, secrecy, social networks - I've seen it all too.

Unfortunately, trying to discuss these issues was a mistake in itself. I believe that for her it was just proof that her button pushing works. It is a cruel game, but ultimately this is a line that I will not be crossing again.

As to why she/they do it, I think it is both things mentioned here. Keeping you on defensive and keeping her in circulation. Worst thing is that I believe this behavior *is* intentional. I can accept that push-pull between us is an unconscious product of her internal issues, but triangulation (read definition) is a deliberate act that requires decision and some premeditation. I guess many people here are at odds with this particular issue when told to radically accept, forgive and let go. I do not think I can truly forgive such malicious acts on my integrity and I will let this fuel the separation until it becomes irrelevant.

[crystalclear]

While together my ex never did anything to make me jealous. However, he would frequently get jealous over things with me. He'd get jealous if guys he thought liked me would talk to me. He'd get jealous if I'd go out without him. He'd get jealous when I'd talk to people at work who he didn't like. And when I say talk, it could be something as small as me just saying HI. But the bigger problem was his paranoia about it all.

Ditto!

I think its his insecurities that showed up. He was jealous if i travelled to other countries on work (even though he travelled a bit). I would always encourage him to travel, meet his friends, go partying with friends as he was living alone and was not very socially active. But he did not like if i did the same especially if guys are around. When in person with him i could not freely receive a call or text any guy. He complained i gave more importance to my friends and social life than him or talking to him. If i cheked my phone when were out together - he got pissed off and cross at me.

[Simona]

Well I do believe they use it... .

Last night I took the bait and broke the NC with my unBPD ex husband. Right after I left him, he added all his previous girlfriends back to his facebook and writing sweet comments to them and sharing and liking stuff publicly (something he used to hate) and I just had a full blown rage at him.

I know I shouldn't have done it, but that ended up with "I love you, I hate you, I miss you, I don't care about you, the moment I will see you I will make you hospitalized, the moment I will see you I will hug you tight, I will have sex with your best friend and kick her out of my home, I will never hurt anyone you loved, I hate the moment I know you, I wish you would never leave me, I still smell your clothes, there is a girl who is hitting on me from work" well you got the message I suppose.

I wish I could say this is not effecting me, but it does. Right now I am at work and my eyes are all red, I cried many times and still trying to hold on to keep a semi professional look. Hiding behind the big sunglasses (the perks of working at a beach) and breathing deeply to get over this crappy feeling.

I think they all need validation, my ex admitted he added all those girls just to "tease" me and get a reaction from me, and ofcourse he managed to get what he wanted.

[danley]

While together my ex never did anything to make me jealous. However, he would frequently get jealous over things with me. He'd get jealous if guys he thought liked me would talk to me. He'd get jealous if I'd go out without him. He'd get jealous when I'd talk to people at work who he didn't like. And when I say talk, it could be something as small as me just saying HI. But the bigger problem was his paranoia about it all.

Ditto!

I think its his insecurities that showed up. He was jealous if i travelled to other countries on work (even though he travelled a bit). I would always encourage him to travel, meet his friends, go partying with friends as he was living alone and was not very socially active. But he did not like if i did the same especially if guys are around. When in person with him i could not freely receive a call or text any guy. He complained i gave more importance to my friends and social life than him or talking to him. If i cheked my phone when were out together - he got pissed off and cross at me.

Yes. I told would encourage him to hang out with his friends and to travel. I always enjoyed hearing about his outings and felt it was important. He was very insecure. Sometimes something unknown would trigger him and I'd have to reassure him. But when the tables were ever turned he wouldn't do the same for me. I just had to remind myself that he probably dealt with neglect in his past and tried my best to let him know he could trust me.