Do they have any moral values?

[benny2]

I have a great deal of moral values and it seems my bfwBPD has none. He thinks because we are no longer living together and yet see each other nearly everyday, that its ok for his ex wife to stay with him for a couple days while she returns for some of her things. I asked him how he would feel if I had my ex stay with me and of course he said, it would bother him but he would not interfere. Hindsight, he does not want me to interfere, but I find this unacceptable. She did not make it this weekend like planned, so its lingering in the near future. He promised me he would not let her stay there, but I could tell he was disappointed that she did not show up this weekend. I feel this is probably going to happen behind my back. Things have been going really well the last couple weeks and I hate to rock the boat, but this is really bothering me. What is it that he cannot let go of her? And what makes him think he can have us both. She is living many miles away now and he still keeps constant contact with her and lets her stay there when she comes. What woman is going to put up with this? He claims he has no feelings for her, but I have learned not to listen to his words, watch his actions, and to me by letting her stay there, that's telling me there is more. Why does he feel the need to have more than one. Is it just that he cannot let go of either one of us? I thought it would be over once she left, but I know she will continue to stay in his life as long as he allows it. I'm not sure how to go about this without causing a fight. I have told him, its her or me and he gives no response. He only tells me it over between them. I have a feeling his definition of over is completely different than mine.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Mono No Aware]

Moral values are constants that define good and bad. We rely on them in a changing world to guide us down a path we believe is correct.

The BPD, when shifting from regular to dysregulated state, changes their entire perception of reality. Their entire belief system of good and bad, right and wrong, hero and villian, it all turns around and topsy-turvy. Their emotional rollercoaster takes over and shuts down logic. The constants change for them.

Go back to the Lessons. Read up on Acceptance.

[united for now]

He justifies what he does because he doesn't respect boundaries, not because he has no values... .

And I am more concerned about your motivations than his. If you don't want to share him then that is "your" boundary and needs to be defended and enforced. That is on you... .

Trying to get a duck to bark only frustrates you and pisses off the duck.

[benny2]

I realize that is my boundary and I have made it perfectly clear to him. What I fear now is that he will do this behind my back. I guess for now I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see otherwise. He has promised me he will not let her stay with him, and there's going to be no more between them. He claims it to be only a friendship. We will see. His promises in the past were always broken.

[united for now]

And what "actions" or consequences will you follow if/when you find out he didn't respect your wishes?

Is this the hill you want to die on?

Since this is an issue that has the potential to keep repeating, what are your plans to cope?

[leftbehind]

The BPD, when shifting from regular to dysregulated state, changes their entire perception of reality. Their entire belief system of good and bad, right and wrong, hero and villian, it all turns around and topsy-turvy. Their emotional rollercoaster takes over and shuts down logic. The constants change for them.

This explains so much, Mono No Aware.  I realize this is why I can't be with my ex.  He has no moral center, and will lie when it's convenient.  He's also an opportunist. 

Sending you love, Benny2

[Grey Kitty]

UFN has some good questions. I've got another one... .

Is it OK with you that he is in regular contact with his ex-wife?

[Chosen]

Remember, he is letting his ex stay over and keeping in contact with her mainly because it makes him feel better, not necessarily because he thinks it's right.  pwBPDs have morals, but whether they will stay within that moral boundary is another issue.  And as mentioned, they like to push boundaries... .

[blurry]

 I think its more a case of dealing with someone who has zero empathy, the tough part is accepting that its not their fault, its the personality disorder. Its like they have a license to cheat and its a matter of whether or not we want to live every day of our lives like that... .

[blurry]

 My pwBPD does some stuff that's so bizarre and seemingly has no remorse. "Get over it" is a common response I get from her. To me that's something I would say to someone I told a bad joke to, not something id say to someone I just insulted with some of the most hurtful remarks imaginable. Assuming I loved the person.

[benny2]

Chosen, if this makes him feel better, then he must still have feelings for her. He swears up and down there's nothing, but like I said, his words mean nothing, its his actions that speak.

Grey Kitty, No, I am not ok with his contact between him and his ex. It caused a lot of problems while I was living there. She was only living 2 doors down at the time and I caught him sneaking over there at 4:30 in the morning when he said he was going into work early. She does not want us together and even though she is over a thousand miles away now, she is not going to give up. He try's to do things behind my back. Goes into the bathroom to text and I know and his son in law also told me that she will be staying with him when she comes no doubt. Well I'll find out and then I'm done.

[benny2]

I do understand they have no empathy, however, I do not think that's gives them the right to cheat. They know the difference between right and wrong, and I feel the lies and the cheating is something they can control if they really want to.

[united for now]

I do understand they have no empathy, however, I do not think that's gives them the right to cheat. They know the difference between right and wrong, and I feel the lies and the cheating is something they can control if they really want to.

And none of this can be changed by you.

So, what are you going to do knowing you can't change  what he does?

[waverider]

I feel the lies and the cheating is something they can control if they really want to.

And what can you do to make him want too?

A pwBPD lack of consistent morals and ethics are not going to be enouigh incentive.

The problem is that a pwBPD has lack of consistent anything. Morals and ethics can be switched on and off according to impulse and whatever fits with the urge of the moment, just like any other feelings they have. Feelings can be deep, but often here today, gone tomorrow

[benny2]

I know I can't change him. I am hoping he will want to change himself. He does get very angry at times with himself for the things he does. I really do think he wants to change, but I know it is going to be a long road. I represent change to him and he knows if he wants to be with me, he will have to. He knows he cannot manipulate me, I know when he's lying or up to something. I know this man way to well. I represent the good side of him, the other women he has been with satisfy the bad. Its his choice.

[waverider]

Try to ensure that "hope" is an accessory to your plans not an essential part of them, otherwise its seems to lead inevitably into resentment.

I am working on this part at the moment and it is really HARD. It just seems to keep inserting that pause or hold in your life that leaves you hanging on someone else to get their act together, and we know how futile that can be.

[MaybeSo]

Careful.

I use to feel I represented the good side of my ex and the "other woman(en)" represented or encouraged or satisfy his bad side, too. Until it flipped, and I got a turn as all bad and the "other woman(en)" were Viewed as all good and were viewed as rescuing him from big bad me.

These are projections. We love the positive projections; but what goes up must come down.

Splitting and Black/white thinking is ubiquitous to this disorder. He splits off bad, unowned parts of himself through others.  He idealizes, which is also grandiose and fantasy based, just as are the negative projections, its all grandiose. You are not immune to this. The disorder doesn't care how smart or moral you are.

It's also worthwhile to be curious about why someone so morally inferior has captured your

attention to this degree.  You have choices, too.

My ex has morals and values. They don't always exactly match mine, And they can be more fluid as he is a moody, mercurial person, but they are his beliefs and values and his choices.

He is who he is.

We all choose.

[united for now]

Maybeso speaks the truth.

He isn't two different people.

He is a cheater.

He is a liar.

He is a player.

Staying with him means accepting the bad parts of him too.

Cause if you can't accept him as he is then you shouldn't be staying with him.

Otherwise he will continue to cause you pain.

Radical acceptance means letting go of the fairytale and accepting  reality as it is... .

[leftbehind]

my ex's morals are based on what feels good to him in the moment, what feels true in the moment.  and since his feelings are constantly changing, so are his morals.  it's taken me until this morning to realize this.  it's still shocking.

having morals means doing the right thing regardless of your feelings.  he's incapable of this, so in reality he has no morals.  once he splits you black, he will cheat on you, (what he did to his ex wife) conspire with the landlord to throw you out of your apartment so he can have it all to himself (what he did to the ex before me), and use you to help him in developing his business and then snake you out of two of your work gigs (what he did to me). 

morals based on how you feel in any given moment are not morals.

[waverider]

Lack of self disciple is a big thing, though it is often hidden by obsessively following through on impulses and strong feelings. This leads to delusion about self discipline.

As long as they have the urge to do something, they will apply all effort to it. An example would be say taking up running, it will become the most important thing in the world they will get up at dawn and run, regardless of what else needs to be done. They call it self disciple, but it is selfishness in reality. Self discipline is making yourself do things you dont want to do because you know it is the right thing. For example in this case not going for the run you have the impulse to do, but instead prepare the kids for school. Putting someone elses needs before your impulse.

Getting up at dawn and running is only self discipline if you really dont want to do it, not if you are purely following and obsession

Generosity is similar, giving when they want to, and what will gain them praise, approval, etc. Often high profile generosity. Not what would be most useful and helpful when required.

Morals again are the same, strong morals to suit their current cause.

Everything is directed towards meeting current needs and impulses.

Once you learn this it is easier to accept it as part of the disorder instead of feeling like you are swept away in the feel good mode only to be let down when it turns out to be shallow or fleeting.

I believe it comes from a lack of deep inner sense of self and hence consistency. They are who their moods are of the moment