We had a difficult Father's Day...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

D8 would act out, we'd discipline her, which in return meant she spent most of the day screaming and crying... . She'd say she didn't love us, we didn't love her, daddy (my SO) in particular doesn't love her, the dog doesn't love her, she wants to go back to uBPDm's house, she wants her mommy, she never wants to see us again, we are so mean to her, we hate her, daddy never missed her... . etc. etc. This went on for HOURS. Poor SO, this was not the Father's Day he imagined.

What is up with this behavior? Is this normal child boundary pushing? Is this Alienation from BPDmom at work? Is this just the result of a long week together?

[Thunderstruck]

D8 would act out, we'd discipline her, which in return meant she spent most of the day screaming and crying... . She'd say she didn't love us, we didn't love her, daddy (my SO) in particular doesn't love her, the dog doesn't love her, she wants to go back to uBPDm's house, she wants her mommy, she never wants to see us again, we are so mean to her, we hate her, daddy never missed her... . etc. etc. This went on for HOURS. Poor SO, this was not the Father's Day he imagined.

What is up with this behavior? Is this normal child boundary pushing? Is this Alienation from BPDmom at work? Is this just the result of a long week together?

[mamachelle]

Hi Thunderstruck,

I'm really sorry you were dealing with this on Father's Day. Just make sure not to take it personally... . thought it doesn't sound like you are.

I think it can be a result of PAS and also  from Mom and just plain old emotional dysregulation due to anxiety over all the recent stuff going on in your lives. (kidnapping accusations, mom's emotional dysreg, transition out of school to camp) Very common with my 3 SS and I believe there is a genetic component as well.

I've found this book to be invaluable. I would pick it up to learn better ways to respond and also to anticipate as well as to help her to learn how to regulate this type of behavior. It is very zen and very effective as it uses DBT skills for parenting.

Parenting a Child Who Has Intense Emotions: Dialectical Behavioral Therapy Skills to Help Your Child Regulate Emotional Outbursts and Aggressive Behaviors - Pat Harvey, ACSW, LCSW-C, and Jeanine Penzo, LICSW


mamachelle

[DreamGirl]

The immediate days leading up to transition are really hard on the little ones. (Did she go back to mom's the following day?)

How was she acting out?

How did she sleep the night before?

[Thunderstruck]

The immediate days leading up to transition are really hard on the little ones. (Did she go back to mom's the following day?)

How was she acting out?

How did she sleep the night before?

Yes, she did go back to mom's the next day.

She has these emotional meltdowns. Basically it's a lot of crying and screaming and blaming (it's because of something YOU did, YOU were so mean to me!) and then the 'I don't love you (to SO)' and ':)addy doesn't love me' and 'You hate me, you're happy seeing me miserable'.

We're not the only triggers. She's had these meltdowns at after care and has been kicked out of one because of it.

Yesterday she had one at summer camp so I talked to her about it. She basically blame shifted ('the kids kicked me, the counselors were mean to me, I hate it there I never want to go back'. She wouldn't discuss her own behavior.

It's just frustrating, to get so little time with her and try to teach better habits. And it's a challenge for SO to get her a therapist because uBPDbm is trying everything in her power to see to it that we only have D8 on the weekends (and never consistently).

[DreamGirl]

For an 8 year old to blame shift, that's kinda typical.  

I have a ten year old where nothing is ever her fault. Lots of factors why she rocks the I'm-always-innocent tactic. She's the youngest and her mom (and dad!) baby her, she's really sensitive (making shame a hard emotion to process), she shares a room with her sister who is prone to blame shifting herself, she's 10 and is still developing her cognitive skills ... .

These meltdowns are a little bit of a red flag. How often do they occur? (You're week to week right now right?) Every day?

I might journal the meltdowns and what the events are leading up to it.  We had one member here whose SD had meltdowns every transition day - at both homes.

Studies do show that this can be a very, very stressful time for the kids in divorced situations. From what you've shared, your kiddos' mama probably contributes to the stress the kid's experience with some of her own poor coping skills (i.e. overly emotional, asking a lot of questions about the weekend, etc). So while tantrums/meltdowns aren't completely conducive to having a parent who is mentally ill... . mom is probably compounding the problem, not helping it.

If she's having meltdowns everyday, it could be a sign of something deeper going on and it is probably a good idea to get a therapist involved. The journal can help pinpoint perhaps what might be causing the emotional dysregulation.

~DreamGirl

[Thunderstruck]

The meltdowns are pretty often, maybe every other day. They usually happen when a) her blood sugar drops, around meal times b) she is being coaxed into a new situation outside of her comfort zone or c) when being disciplined. She's been good for us this week (no meltdowns when she's with SO and I) but not so much at camp.

Thank you for the "normal" contrast. It's hard for me to determine, it's been a loong time since I was an 8 year old and pre-D8 (which hasn't been very long) I didn't spend much time around kids.  

I worry a lot about D8. I worry that bad behavior isn't being corrected at her mom's, and I worry that SO and I don't have enough time with her to help. Example: I tried to talk to her about calming down during meltdowns (the counselors asked if there was anything they could do).

Thunderstruck: "When you have meltdowns we put you in time out. Camp puts you in time out. What did your teacher at school do?"

D8: "I didn't have meltdowns at school." I don't think this is true, I've seen teacher comments about her being difficult.

Thunderstruck: "What does mommy do?"

D8: "Slaps me in the face."

[mamachelle]

Hi Thunderstruck,

I think it's really hard for parents with BPD to parent a child with those intense emotions. It's hard enough for those who are relatively mentally healthy parents.

If you can pick up that Parenting a Child with Intense emotions book for you and your SO it should help give you some better ways to deal with this.

I would recommend therapy as DG suggests. If you get it recommended by the pediatrician it may be better than coming from you or SO directly.

2 out of 3 of my Step Sons suffer emotional dysreg. All 3 of my SS are in individual therapy.

Do what you can at your house to provide stability for her. You can't control what is going on at Mom's and she may really really be giving Mom a hard time as well. My SS10 was bad for us when he was that age but he was worse with Mom. BioBPDmom in my case was not able or interested in learning better ways to parent and often either hid in her room or would react raging. She too has slapped her sons in the face and then felt intense remorse. Very confusing.

The more work we did at our house, the better it got all around as SS10 learned better coping skills.

Keep us posted. This stuff is hard.

 mamachelle

[Catsmother]

Maybe you could ask her what she would like you to do when she is having a meltdown. I'm sure she won't pick the slap in the face option. You and she could work out some strategies as to what to do during and after a meltdown.

I asked SS9 what he would like to have happen when he gets in trouble, the options being - sent to his room which is what his uBPD mother does, or having a discussion about it. He chose the discussion option. He used to have meltdowns with us when he was 2/3 but I learnt to recognise the precursor "vacuum" that he would enter, and ditract him. He continued the meltdowns but only with his mother, no where else.