why the lies?

[Ishenuts]

I don't really spend a lot of time trying to figure out "why" they lie. I'm sure it is for any and all reasons already mentioned. There's no cure for it.When you first realize it about a SO it is so devastating.

At this point I don't dwell on the lies my uNPBexH told TO me. What I do worry about are the lies he tells ABOUT me: to our children, therapists, lawyers, judges, parental coordinators, etc. He is a very convincing liar. I'm still not sure if he believs his lies? Am I a more convincing "thruther"? I feel like I have to always try to find evidence of his lies, eg emails, old letters, old calendars, etc., because his lies can adversely affect decisions made by others regarding my future.

For instance, in a one hour session with a therapist we consulted (who may see our children), he told the following lies:

1. I (me) don't love our children, they are just my meal ticket

2  I decided to keep them in daycare after I retired because I didn't want want to deal with them

3. Our son only has "issues" when he is with me

4. The monetary "cap" for extracurricular activities (to protect me financially) in our divorce decree says that it's a "minimum" I have to pay so I should pay 1/2 of everything

5. The therapist we consulted during our divorce (regarding the same child issue we were consulting this therapist for) said something entirely different than what she actually said

6. I knew that if I didn't agree to having children he wouldn't have married me

7. I never consulted with my ob/gyn as to whether I could/should carry children in 2001

The Truths"

1, Too ridiculous to even attempt to defend

2. We mutually decided that they were happy there, they were learning there, the socialization was wonderful... . many friends AND in our small town there was nothing available for me to me and the children to do.

3. Not according to our son and corroboration from our daughter.

4. The decree say my financial obligation ="wifes cap" is $$$. No mention of a minimum. Showed the actual wording to the therapist. She didn't comment. I assume she saw the lie. Not my problem that he doesn't know the meaning of a "cap"!

5. What exH doesn't realize is that the therapist we consulted during the divorce is now my T. The therapist we saw the other day is a colleague of my T. She asked if we would mind if she consults with her colleague? We said "Go ahead" So she'll hear the truth

6. OH? So when he said in 2001 that we'd try surrogacy ONE TIME and if it wasn't successful we'd just be childless, was a lie?

7. In 2001, I was almost 47 years old, went through menopause, history of breast cancer in my family and I consulted with my OB/gyn about possibly carrying a child myself. My doctor said, "Are you sure this guy loves you, wanting you to do this? No way - too dangerous" What exH doesn't know is that I have the original email I sent to him immediately following the doctor visit! 

See what I mean? How do I defend the lies without evidence? Their minds are very scary, and the fact that people may believe them... . even scarier!

[rj47]

You don't think the stories are so chronic and over the top that the other people in your lives don't recognize it?

Trained therapists/counselors generally see the signs. A suicide evaluator once spent two hours with my BPDw in an emergency room several years ago. I was in a small waiting room and could hear the wife ranting through the walls. When the psychologist came to see me she handed me a post it note with the name of a book on BPD saying she was prohibited from offering advice but that it was an important read. When we finally left, my wife told me the psychologist encouraged her to divorce me, that she could take everything, and, take sole custody of our 16yr old daughter and 20yr old son. The evaluator must have been a lawyer as well... . though a poor one. At that point I would have been happy living in a cardboard box to stop the chaos. It would have been a big box as my kids would have joined me.

I then started keeping an audio record of our interchanges simply to protect myself and counter the false narratives she was telling others. I have many hours of her critically ripping on every person she ever knew. She was physically violent, would often scratch, stab, punch and kick me; then say she was calling the police to report me for DV. I needed something to counter her stories if the police ever showed. I could never hurt her by playing them for anyone. I can barely listen to them myself without having severe anxiety.

I guess my fascination of the "why" is trying to understand how a rational intellect can be completely suppressed. She could control the episodic outbursts and gross lies when our kids or others were around which suggested that in fact, she could reign in the "demon" if she chose to. But where it concerned me... . I was not worth the effort. It was an important turning point.

[Ahhhh431]

My ex would constantly tell me about other men who would try to flirt with her or be after her.

I suspect this is common. I heard it for many years while paying out a small fortune to enhance her looks. Over time she developed the idea that all women were jealous (and therefore hated her) and all men wanted her. The thing with other women became downright paranoia. When I accidently discovered an online romance with an old HS friend I was mortified at the intensity of her pursuit of the guy. A year later she was still angrily insisting that it was him that wanted her in spite of dozens of e-mails she had sent him, and a handful of non-committal responses from him. Each time I insisted that she spend time with him she would rage on about what a loser he was; or that I never saw any of the racy letters he had sent; or that she did it out of boredom; and, of course that it was entirely my fault. Suggesting that she had degraded herself (and me) terribly would trigger instant rage and sometimes physical violence.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence from their words and deeds, they deny any culpability for their own behavior. A total disconnect.

Wow this sounds so similar to things I encountered. I would catch my ex talking to other guys and it was of course always them pursuing her (when in fact she was always overly flirtatious and text them first as well). When I confronted her about whether she kissed a guy who liked her (of course she isn't attracted to him just felt bad for him ) her reply would always be "ewww gross" followed by degrading comments such as "he won't leave me alone" "he is like a cockroach and just shows up whenever" I wonder why they rage when confronted of degrade the other person? Is it to save face?

[Gisteve18]

My soon to be ex-wife texted me 'I got invited to a screening of a movie with some friends' and didnt come home until 4 in the morning. I found out the next day she went out with another guy to see a movie we were supposed to see together. I told her that really hurt and it crossed so many boundaries, and her response was, 'People lie, get over it and stop being so sensitive.' I was so engulfed in the chaos that I actually believed her for a few hours, and started to think I was too sensitive. Needless to say, I moved out and am seeing things from a much better perspective.

I went back to get a few more of my things a couple of days ago, and she called the police on me, and fabricated a story that I broke in, was verbally abusing her and threatening her. All while I was looking at her do it - changed her voice to sound more scared and everything. The police came and I even opened the door for them, as she locked herself in the bathroom to make it look like she was running away from me. The put me in handcuffs out of pre-caution and questioned both of us, but thank God they were able to see through the lies, as I am very calm and even tempered, and don't even know how to be verbally abusive or threatening.

[rj47]

I was so engulfed in the chaos that I actually believed her for a few hours, and started to think I was too sensitive. Needless to say, I moved out and am seeing things from a much better perspective.

I hope you're able to move on and re-engage with others in a healthy and fulfilling manner. You might consider arranging to have others there if you have to return as she might ratchet up the destructive behavior in a manner that you end up not only handcuffed, but in the back of a squad car.

My BPDw would grasp her throat violently and scratch her face, neck and arms shouting "your going to jail wife beater". Mostly, she picked up the phone and pretended to call. I would go to the front lawn and sit down waiting for the police to show. I started recording every episode on my phone thereafter, in the vent the police showed. I also credit my kids with advising her that they would inform the police that she was violently abusive toward me for many years. Of course, that mean't that I had turned them against her.

The stream of " constructive criticism", "training" and creative narratives they direct at us can be mentally debilitating. Like you, I began to doubt my ability to properly rationalize through the bad behavior. Inevitably my brain would reset and I would have that What the heck moment realizing... . "I'm more messed up than her for even considering her dementia riddled reasoning!"

[maxen]

The lies of omission were the worst, but the why to that is easy.  Because he felt he could look me in the eye and say he never lied to me.

my wife came home one evening in june, said the marriage wasn't working for her, there was somebody else, and walked out the door and drove over to the other party's house and moved in. she's been there since. this took one hour.

when she said the words "there's somebody else," i snapped "i don't want to know who it is, i don't want to know how long you've been doing whatever, and i don't want to know how you lied about your spare time activities." she pouted and answered, "i didn't lie." well she was revealing infidelity and infidelity is a lie. but what she meant was that she had shaved her sentences for the previous month (or so) so that she could claim she didn't lie. so she said e.g. "i'm going to [a place]", not "i'm going to [a place] with X for the purpose of developing the relationship i'm leaving you for," as it turned out. so technically not a lie! but at the moment of blowing my life up (i'm 56 and looked forward to being in our marriage 'til death did us part) and tearing down her own security (she's 48), at a moment such as that, she was concerned to assert that she didn't lie. when 6 weeks later i saw her and faced her with her deceit, she shrugged. when i saw her again and raised it again 6 weeks after that, she puckered and said "i didn't handle that well." empathy, like.

there have been a few other equally cheap moments since she left, and i'm so ashamed that it will help me get over the shock.

[living in the past]

 to clover 528 ,just read your post and replys, this is my 2nd reply on this site, and i have 4 post,you sound like you are going to be ok. the comment about one day at a time is crucial in life ,and today is that day,best wishes.

[peas]

I caught my exuBPDbf in little lies. There were other stories he told that I didn't believe but didn't bother confirming.

Some of his BS:

-- that he followed me on Twitter. He didn't actually begin to follow me until weeks after declaring he followed me. I know because when someone follows you you get an email notice. I didn't tell him I knew he was lying. I also didn't care whether he followed me on Twitter or not.

-- he said he couldn't drive to my city (we had an LDR) at the last minute because he got his car inspected and it was going to cost $500 that he didn't have to bring it up to inspection. This was a lie in that he did not take it to get inspected. His car certainly needed work done, but the trip to the mechanic and price quote were bogus. I just knew. It was too convenient a story for him to get out of driving to see me on a weekend (he hates driving alone any distance over 20 miles).

Then there's the two BPD foundational lies: I love you and I hate you.

[Perfidy]

I remember... .My son told me he MIGHT come over to grill at my place. It didn't sound as though he was going to so I figured he wasn't. So he showed up and we cooked dinner on the grill. The ex had asked me before he showed up if anybody was planning on coming over that evening. I told her I didn't think so. I also told her that my son had mentioned that he might show up but also he wasn't positive so I didn't believe that he would. So when my son showed up I was a liar. She went into a rage. Started punching me. Made a complete disaster out of something as critically important as a relaxing evening with company. This is as close to lying to her that I ever got.

So when I would confront her after she would very clearly lie to me her excuse was... .Well you lie to me. Then she would bring the incident mentioned above up. Using that incident to create the insanity that was us. She made so big of a fuss about that night I knew it was a smokescreen to justify her crazy making. She just needed an excuse for herself because she knew that she was a half bubble off.

[Octoberfest]

Recycle attempts/contact on both you and him is a way to relinquish the shame and blame of a failed r/s – it’s done in healthy r/s too.

This pertains a lot to a situation I am going through right now, with the first person to come along since my BPDex.  I am having overwhelming feelings like I need to reach out, that I could 'make her see' after she very abruptly and seemingly out of nowhere ended things a week and a half ago.  I think it has A LOT to do with feelings of inadequacy/shame on my part, and a lot less to do with her being some awesome girl I am missing out on.  After all, when we were "together", there were certainly things that bugged me and that I saw were going to present challenges in a relationship.  Why would those things suddenly not be there now? They are.  But my feeling of being discarded and not valued by this girl closely matches the same feeling I got from my BPDex, albeit on a much smaller scale.  Still just as strong of a bad taste in my mouth though.

[damage control]

My ex lied all the time - first of all to the ex before me - to her and about her, he also lied/embellished stories to make them more interesting (I would hear the same story with a different outcome in later months), lied about pretty much everything.

I have come to realise that when in a R/S, he covets other women so that he has a 'secret': and this is closely related to his lies - he does it so that he has a feeling of power/control over the other person - he NEEDS subterfuge/lies in order to feel alive. He does not rage or lose his temper, he is very much a WAIF (I don't know how many of his claims of victimisation are lies but, for example, he is currently claiming to have lost his sex drive and suffering from impotency - funny thing? He is still sleeping over at the new woman's house as I write this) ... .he gets off on the lies. He even once referred to his behaviour (regarding somebody else) as being his 'usual, sneaky self' ... he finds it a point of pride, a point of pleasure (MOST IMPORTANT) and a source of drama ... .if the lie goes unnoticed - he has gotten away with it, and gets a power-trip because he now has (perceived) power over the person lied to - if he is called out on a lie - he gets some drama - win/win.

[Changingman]

For me the saying

' No one becomes corrupt overnight '

Lies are natural, little white lies, etc  when do they become pathological... .?

When you are covering up your very self. This leads to everything becoming a lie.

[ScotisGone74]

I get why the heck they tell the majority of their lies-  They have to start a new life over with each person they are with-and of course they have to be the all good, but soo pitiful victim, they have no other choice but to lie about that.   

Its the little, pointless lies that I don't get.  I geuss these are just the daily drama checks to see if they can get a reaction from someone out of... .or they are just using these to practice for the big lies , sheesh.

[Changingman]

Sheesh! Just the strangest thing I've ever been involved with. Wow, another world. Crazy