Experienced my first extintion burst...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Ok I have been enabling my BPDw by doing basically everythign for her. I'd list it all but just picture someone who only takes there own bath and feed them selves and I do almost everything else.

It all started when she pulled out a glass from the cupboard and set it next to the fridge. Then turns to me and says more me a drink. I said but you are right there just open the door next to you.  That passes without conflict but she is quieter. I make dinner and put it on the table. She says bring it to me. I said I'd rather eat on the table. Well thats it I have crossed the line in to meanville and rude city beacuse I am called all the names I can't repeat. How can I be so nice 1 day and so cruel the next.  OMG! 20 mins of ripping me a new one for asking her to pour her own drink and eat at the table.  And when I didn't apologize and take it all back it was "on". I kept my cool. Never rasied my voice never accused. Tried to validate every feeling she spewed out. And that was feeding the raging beast but I kept calm and didn't back down.  

Thats the first time I stood up and didn't cave to just get her to stop ragging. I felt good about myself and how I handled it. Then I went to the store to put gas in her car and I thought... . "If i just went through that storm for s simple "pour your own glass" I'm going to be in a mental ward . This can't happen when I want to stand my ground on something so simple. I wil kill me mentally and drain me physically. It can't be healthy. No wonder I have high blood pressure and take heat med at age 30.  I used to be healthy.  Someon eplease tell me it gets better?

[Cipher13]

Ok I have been enabling my BPDw by doing basically everythign for her. I'd list it all but just picture someone who only takes there own bath and feed them selves and I do almost everything else.

It all started when she pulled out a glass from the cupboard and set it next to the fridge. Then turns to me and says more me a drink. I said but you are right there just open the door next to you.  That passes without conflict but she is quieter. I make dinner and put it on the table. She says bring it to me. I said I'd rather eat on the table. Well thats it I have crossed the line in to meanville and rude city beacuse I am called all the names I can't repeat. How can I be so nice 1 day and so cruel the next.  OMG! 20 mins of ripping me a new one for asking her to pour her own drink and eat at the table.  And when I didn't apologize and take it all back it was "on". I kept my cool. Never rasied my voice never accused. Tried to validate every feeling she spewed out. And that was feeding the raging beast but I kept calm and didn't back down.  

Thats the first time I stood up and didn't cave to just get her to stop ragging. I felt good about myself and how I handled it. Then I went to the store to put gas in her car and I thought... . "If i just went through that storm for s simple "pour your own glass" I'm going to be in a mental ward . This can't happen when I want to stand my ground on something so simple. I wil kill me mentally and drain me physically. It can't be healthy. No wonder I have high blood pressure and take heat med at age 30.  I used to be healthy.  Someon eplease tell me it gets better?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rockylove]

Thats the first time I stood up and didn't cave to just get her to stop ragging. I felt good about myself and how I handled it. Then I went to the store to put gas in her car... .

yay!     standing up and not being a doormat is a wonderful thing!  and then you went to the store to put gas in her car?  I almost had to giggle.  It really does get better.  Setting boundaries is difficult and she may rebel at first (similar to how a child who had no boundaries will react to them) and you may experience a bit more pain before seeing the pleasure.   

[waverider]

The trick is not to try to draw lines over everything at once. Pick one or two important issues that really chew you up. Stick to them repeatedly with actions you can take.

The first extinction bursts are the worse, but the empowerment of weathering them is immense. It really does not matter how big or small the issue is, because to them every issue is big if you draw a line in the sand, its the challenge they react to the substance is irrelevent. Just like the example you demonstrated. The point about making the boundary around a serious issue is that it gives YOU more backbone in sticking to it. Once you cave on a boundary it sets you back a long way

[Cipher13]

I had the opportunity to choose something small. But yes of course its huge. Infact its still carrying over this morning. I didn't iron her pants well enough. Now since I'm up early and need to iron my own clothes for work I don't see this as a problem until I get the text that says I didn't do it right.  Still raging from last night and admitted she is stil angry with me and I still don't get it.

So if I supposedly don't understand her feelings and don't care about them yet I make the effort to agknowledge that I do. Not good enough I guess.  And yes I ended up putting gas in her car afterwords. I chose 1 battle and that was enough for 1 day. 

Ok so help me with this one: I just accomplished this mini milestone for myself. This is a "change". So her comment is "Apperently you still don't see how every little thing is tied directly to the crap that you casued."

I replied: "Yes. I do see it"  I do understand what she means by that. Thanks to this site and all the helpful people.

Her comeback: "But you won't do anything to change it" That right there is an impossible statement to respond to because no matter what I say I will fail. What can I possible change that will be goos enough? And when I do change its time for another "rage" becasue something has changed... . AHHHHH!

[zaqsert]

Good job standing up for your boundary!

Some of the next tools that can help you are... .

Keep in mind that there is nothing that you can do to soothe her.  She needs to figure out how to soothe herself.  This means you don't really have any control over when she will stop raging, no matter what you do.  I know this can be really frustrating, but when you get to accepting this it will make it easier to let go.  For me, I recognized this logically long before it sank in emotionally, so this can take time.

Validate what you believe to be valid.  It may just be validating her feelings, since no one can argue with feelings.  Be careful not to validate anything that is flat out false.

As you do this, be sure not to JADE (justify, argue, defend, or explain).  When she said "Apparently you still don't see... . " and you replied with "Yes. I do see it", well, you argued against her point of view.  It is way too easy to get baited into JADEing.  Being aware of it is an important first step.

Of course, as you validate it is also important that you not turn yourself into a human punching bag.  So if you're comfortable validating for a little bit, go for it.  But if the raging continues, you may enforce a boundary of not staying around if you are being raged at.

If you do leave during a rage, do your best to follow a few important steps.  The lessons here outline them nicely, but I'll go from memory for the moment.  Make it about you, not her ("I want to listen to your feelings but I can't handle this right now", rather than "you've gone mad!" or "you're being so nasty right now".  Reminder her that you love her, even though she will probably say something snarky in return.  Tell her that you're going out/next room/somewhere and that you will come back in 20 minutes / 1 hour / whatever it may be.  Then be sure to follow through with returning when you said you would.  And you can tell her that you want to pick up the conversation again when things are calm (note "things" are calm, not when "she" is calm).  At some level she probably knows what she is doing.  Pointing it out to her is very likely going to make things worse.

Hang in there.  It does get better!

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, it does get better. The good thing about enforcing boundaries is that you pick them as ways to protect yourself. And they do protect yourself every time you use them

Verbal abuse is another good boundary to set, especially if you are getting it in response to enforcing other boundaries.

As a start, we have a workshop here on how to take a time out, i.e. get away from the raging, or before things escalate quite to that level:

How to take a time out

[waverider]

Remember you are making changes so you feel better. You are not changing to obtain her approval. That is what got you into the mess in the first place.

Every change you make will simply be just another example of you making a big issue out of nothing to her. It is the process of neediness that is crying out to be pampered. individual issues are not the problem they are symptoms.

You are learning not to be a doormat, not trying to change your color to suit whatever suits her best at that moment. She wants a doormat, you dont want to be, hence you will not please her. Eventually she will have to learn to live without one, but that takes time.

[Cipher13]

I know I can not and will not be able to change her aproval. Man this isn't easy at all. If I had known about this sooner I could be further along.  Had a very good weekend with out issues. I wanted to set a could more boundaries regarding verbal abuse but they didn't come up. Of course when its going well the last thing on my mind is to stir things up.

Now counseling is come up again. She wants to knwo what I am talking about. The truth is her and what its doing to me. Problem is I can't tell her that. She thinks I'm going there to improvem myself so she can see that I am more trust worthy. Problem is she wants to see a result and I can't really give her one that is as instant as she wants. Besides how to you regain trust? How can you show someone you can be trusted in just a couple days? Doesn't the person who isn't trusting the other person need to eventually have some form of faith and trust to build off of?  There isn't a 12 step program for this.

I'm going for me. She thinks its for her and I'm the one that needs to change. I do need to change in a way I guess. But as I learn and follow the guidlines I am getting from this site and counseling they contrdict what she wants. In other words I am learning to not be a doormat and she is expecting a better/more confomring doormat.

[Grey Kitty]

Welcome to the ex-doormat club, Cipher13 

Going to therapy because it will help you is what you want to do and should do.

Not letting her control your therapy is another boundary.

You can tell her you are doing it for yourself, to better live the way you want to live, and that is all she needs to know about it.

I do agree that telling her that it is because of the damage she is doing to you would only make things worse.

[waverider]

You are right in that trying to appease her will hinder any progress you make. At the same time there is no real desire to trigger unnecessary conflict.

So often saying less is best. Trying to hide what T is about will just become another hole you cant dig yourself out of. A pwBPD if often incapable of complete trust no matter what you do, so you have to accept that and let those issues wash by. Best just keep things on a simple basis of you are doing what you are doing because it helps you feel more balanced and at the end of the day reduces your all over stress levels which helps manage your life and relationship better.

At the end of the day T is not about her. She is part of the environment in which you live. It is about how you can manage YOUR life and YOUR part in the RS so that life is better. Once you can get a complete grasp of that then you will feel less negative towards her and T will be more effective. I know that is hard, we all struggle to let go of the occasional bitterness.

[Cipher13]

waverider,

A pwBPD if often incapable of complete trust no matter what you do, so you have to accept that and let those issues wash by.

Is this true?  I am probably never going to get enough trust back in my life to feel I can be sane and have a life? I don't want ot go to therapy for the rest of my life. That is exactly what that would do. I'm exhausted. I'm tired of trying to find battles to pick and whcih ones I should leave alone. Its as exhausting as the arguments and rages.

Perhaps I could use a littel more advice on validation. I know there are times its called for and other times its not. Example; "I just feel like you don't love me when you aren't with me. And that you are glad when I'm not around and that you wish I wasn't around."  How do I respnd to that.

[waverider]

waverider,

A pwBPD if often incapable of complete trust no matter what you do, so you have to accept that and let those issues wash by.

Is this true?  I am probably never going to get enough trust back in my life to feel I can be sane and have a life? I don't want ot go to therapy for the rest of my life. That is exactly what that would do. I'm exhausted. I'm tired of trying to find battles to pick and whcih ones I should leave alone. Its as exhausting as the arguments and rages.

Perhaps I could use a little more advice on validation. I know there are times its called for and other times its not. Example; "I just feel like you don't love me when you aren't with me. And that you are glad when I'm not around and that you wish I wasn't around."  How do I respnd to that.

Insecurity is at the core of BPD, it creates a paranoia. In times of duress a pwBPD will resort to the feeling that everyone hates them, that they are going to be abandoned, that they are not good enough and so they will suspect you, and blame you for all kinds of imaginary things. So that trust is always conditional on their frame of mind, and they will turn on you. It is necessary to understand this is part of the disorder so that you don't take it at face value.

Perhaps I could use a littel more advice on validation. I know there are times its called for and other times its not. Example; "I just feel like you don't love me when you aren't with me. And that you are glad when I'm not around and that you wish I wasn't around."  How do I respnd to that.

This is what I do, everyone is different but this is what I do when I get this exact question

I just feel like you don't love me when you aren't with me. >>Acknowledge you hear this is how she feels, and reassure her how you feel when you aren't with her (Dont be tempted to say "thats not true" that is actually invalidating her feeling, and can start further argument)

And that you are glad when I'm not around and that you wish I wasn't around

>>Completely ignore this bit, as it is bait and a projection tool to soothe her issues. Responding to this will send you into JADE mode. She needs to learn to self soothe

[allibaba]

Cipher13,

It is exhausting sometimes.  That is why we work on taking care of ourselves and being less entangled in the emotions of our spouses.  Even once you get into a pattern of proper boundaries occasionally your spouse will challenge you in a way that you don't expect and you feel like you are back to the drawing board.   

SO   and 

Just remember... . the things that you are doing now will get easier with practice (for the most part).

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

This link might be helpful. 

Good luck!

[Cipher13]

Exhasuting isn't a strong enough to describe the feeling some times. I'm questioning what I get out of this by doing all of these things. I am not getting sanity. I'm not getting less stressed. And there are no shortages of names I now have.

Back the question of the T.  We used to go to one for marriage counsleing years ago for a long period of time. It turned into the T instead of dealing with marriage issue concentrated on my W's anxiety and panic issues. We went there because I had "and addiction to porn". Which isn't true in the context she assumes.  Now the new T is someon only I go to and can't possibly be helping me with trust issues that she can see.

"This guy isn't doing anyhting to help you. Kathy would have told you to apologize for your condesending and ignorant comment." In stead of my typical responce to her "I don't believe you" I said you are entitled to that feeling.  Thats why I was being ignorant. She thinks if I would have done what the other T told me to do she would see the results.   The other  T had no clue of her rages and as it turned out I had to bow down to everything because I caused all these feelings of hate and mistrust in our relationship.

Truth be told I did all those things I was told to do. But she won't acknowle that becasue she doesn't feel anydifferent. And if I had done them she would not feel that she can't trust me. Again its a loose loose situation.  If I didn't feel like I was backied into a corner I would ask for soe time apart. And I don't mean hours or a couple days.

If I do that she wins. All her feelings of betrayal and unloved issues are then real. I am abandonding her. How the heck can I do anything when everthing I do turns out she wins with her arguments and I feel like the goat.

[waverider]

How does she win? Its not a contest. You know your own truth, believe in it, you dont need her to validate it. Validation is only as sound as the mind that provides it.

If my partner thought the moon was made of cheese and I could not convince her any different, that doesn't mean she wins. It simply means she is sticking to her truth. You do not need to be right, only to know and believe in your own truth. It is not necessary to convince anyone else of your truth

Neediness is a Black Hole you can throw everything you have into it, You will still not meet that need, but you will be left with nothing. Stop feeding the neediness. Neediness is a controlling mechanism. The only defense to deal with it is to not meet it.

[Cipher13]

Neediness is a Black Hole you can throw everything you have into it, You will still not meet that need, but you will be left with nothing.

Wow that rings a bell of truth.  What I ment that she wins maybe isn't the right way to phrase it. Maybe I am even think of it incorrectly. What I was trying to say was that if she is constantly telling me I don't care and that all I wan tot do is leave her alone. By saying I need space  and then leaving for a period of time or permanatly is then justifying that feeling in her. I have then done the exact thing she is always telling me I am doing or going to do for years. Even though I have always expressed that I am not and do not want that.

I was able to show her that she is looking at this in a way that is clouding her judgment and not letter her get past that very feeling. She has put up a wall of protection and no matter what I do I has to be wrong  becasue it was in the past. 

We will see if that works for the rest f the day. For now she has put thought into that and thinks it might be true.

[waverider]

Neediness is a Black Hole you can throw everything you have into it, You will still not meet that need, but you will be left with nothing.

Wow that rings a bell of truth.  What I ment that she wins maybe isn't the right way to phrase it. Maybe I am even think of it incorrectly. What I was trying to say was that if she is constantly telling me I don't care and that all I wan tot do is leave her alone. By saying I need space  and then leaving for a period of time or permanatly is then justifying that feeling in her. I have then done the exact thing she is always telling me I am doing or going to do for years. Even though I have always expressed that I am not and do not want that.

I was able to show her that she is looking at this in a way that is clouding her judgment and not letter her get past that very feeling. She has put up a wall of protection and no matter what I do I has to be wrong  becasue it was in the past. 

We will see if that works for the rest f the day. For now she has put thought into that and thinks it might be true.

Sounds like you are triggering abandonment issues. When leaving do you reassure her you will be back/check in at a specific time later, rather than leaving it open ended?

Most people who live in a BPD relationship live in a constant drama over "are you leaving me/ I want to leave" issue. It's just part of the disorder.

There is a difference between you having time away from drama, and her saying you are abandoning her. You know this, she is telling you it is the same thing, and your own insecurity and feeling of guilt is overriding your own judgement and allowing her distorted view to influence you.

Fear, Obligation & Guilt (FOG) is holding you to this, not reality. She is implanting her view of reality over yours, as you doubt yourself.

It is possible to have clear insightful conversations with a pwBPD, and they seem to get it. Then next time an issue crops up it all goes out the window as thought that insight never occured. The reactive nature of BPD overrides all other thoughts. They often know this and it adds to the self loathing. It drives you nuts living in a one step forward one step backwards endless cycle.

[briefcase]

You are doing great Cipher!  It is hard work to redefine "normal" in your relationship.  The old normal worked well for her, but was killing you.  If it's any consolation, many of us here have walked this path before you and it does become easier if you remain consistent.  You are juststarting the process, and it will take a while before you see the dynamic change positively.  It's normal for conflict to increase and things to seem worse at this stage.  Stay strong.

[Cipher13]

My afternoon text from her is leaving me perplexed but not completely surprised.

Topic: Things You need to do to should eb I can trust you.

1. Consistency in your behavior

2. Being and acting sincerely sorry daily

3. Acting in a way that doens't make me think you are being decetful

4. Texting constantly so I don't think you are doing something unfaithful (this was origninally instructed to me to be every 5 mins)

5. Being sensitive to me since you know how changes make me think you're doing stuff you shouldn't be.

These are the items she has come up with and that my T should have come up with if he was any good. Also our old T would have told me to do these also.

Even if I coul dbe a perfect person I can't keep that up every day.

[rosannadanna]

Did you do something deceitful?  Did you cheat or something?  It almost sounds like she is holding something over your head.

I didn't read your intro and was just wondering.

If you did something deceitful, it seems like that should be addressed specifically as a couples therapy issue, hopefully with a therapist who knows how to work with BPD.  And just keep in mind that she will proly hold this over your head forever and you will have to make peace with yourself and not give in to the FOG.

If you didn't do anything deceitful, then it sounds like she stays dysregulated a lot or you have set up a pattern of trying to assuage her distrustful feelings.  That is like allowing a 4 year old to get what ever they want at all times, with no limits.  The chaos only ends when you set limits. 

You are doing a phenomenal job!  Stay strong... .

[waverider]

My afternoon text from her is leaving me perplexed but not completely surprised.

Topic: Things You need to do to should eb I can trust you.

1. Consistency in your behavior

2. Being and acting sincerely sorry daily

3. Acting in a way that doens't make me think you are being decetful

4. Texting constantly so I don't think you are doing something unfaithful (this was origninally instructed to me to be every 5 mins)

5. Being sensitive to me since you know how changes make me think you're doing stuff you shouldn't be.

These are the items she has come up with and that my T should have come up with if he was any good. Also our old T would have told me to do these also.


Even if I coul dbe a perfect person I can't keep that up every day.

I hope you realize that is all complete nonsense and no T would recommend she make those requests. She knows you fear her distrust and she is abusing that to bully you. pwBPD soon find your sensitive spots and can stick the knife in.

For a start off if she has trust issues they are her problem, and doing things like that would just enable that distrust even more. You only have one rule.

#Be a thoughtful, considerate balanced thinker who acts in a balanced functional way that is in the best interest of you both. By being balanced that means your actions are not lead by an unbalanced mind

Things are going to get worse before they get better.