Dealing with Crazy

[Our abuse recovery guide]

  Firstly, thank you for this site. I have been reading the posts and they have already helped so much.

My BPD Mother is my life's issue. like so many others i have read here, this ponisious person in my life is one i must find a way to deal with. I am 34 with a young son who is now 18 months and the absolute delight of our lives. Married 7 years to the most awesome and understanding, supportive husband i could have ever asked for. I'm very blessed! We are expecing our second child now and super excited for her arrival in November.

Like many i have sought counceling and found a fabulous one a few years back that pointed out this BPD with my mother and was Dead on once i read some books. It was my life-line to feeling safe and that it really wasn't me all along and that there is nothing i can do to help it. I needed this to take a break from crazy talk and i needed it to give me the reason to sit back and focus on myself and all the positive people in my life instead of always my mother.

Since this time about 4 years now i have limited my mother's access to me and my family. Its been WONDERFUL! but every now and then she pop's back into my life with the dagger of guilt and it penetrates my security wall... . and i don't feel i have the tools to deal with it.

My councillor asked one day how it felt when she would make negative and guilted comments to me... . and i said "like a slap in the face each time" she looked at me and said "would you say being hit a few times a day is acceptable abuse?" and it clicked... . its like being around someone that hits all the time and your always ready to duck or run. There and then i began to understand BPD and my life with my mother.

About a week back it was my mothers 65th birthday ( we dreaded this event because it was to show us {my brother's family and mine} off to her friends. As we suspected it was true, very superficial and like we predicted all her friends were new; she can't keep them much more then 5 years with her 2 faced comments. So we gave her a gift she couldn't not like a photo nicely framed of her 3 grand kids. That worked. But today i get an email of how she wants to visit me (we live 4 hrs away) and that was piggybacked with how i don't respect her. The email was a good 3 paragraphs of how my not respecting my mother was my fathers fault for not being there to teach this lesson to me (they divorced when i was 2 but i get along with my dad). Needless to say i find myself back in her fly-trap of emanational hostage looking for a response since this was was about her coming for a visit.

I know that i am to set boundaries but as a true Libra and person of BPD Mothers its so hard to come back at her and take my position. A very uncomfortable and foreign feeling like putting someones shoes on that are too small. I know she wants to get back into my circle of family and relationship building only to be close to see my son and be a part of my pregnancy and see my daughter. I try to only see her 2 times a year. That's all i can take. Part of me wants her to be fixed and hopeful but the other part knows this will never be.

My husband and i discussed the option of letting her know how i feel and that she needs help. But to say this to my mother is like giving her a gun and helping her point it my way and running away hoping she won't shoot... . Last time i told her no and that i hate coming home. She went on a tantrum and broke everything in the living room in rage. Scary for me and manipulating from her. So if i tell her yes we can work on a relationship if she seeks help she may do self harm, and then i would feel the guilt. like i pushed that button you know not to push - destruction.

So now i'm not too sure what tools i may need to deal with her now at this point. I usually delete her emails and don't respond, but i feel i have to with this one for some reason. Maybe its because i wish she could just come visit. But know that it would be like a week back, full of jab's (slaps) and little comments others don't see or understand that hurt.

So that would be the most recent of my BPD issues, as i stated i can relate on so many posts and i'm not too sure where to post next but the rant has helped already. Thanks so much again.!

[ObliviousRed]

  Firstly, thank you for this site. I have been reading the posts and they have already helped so much.

My BPD Mother is my life's issue. like so many others i have read here, this ponisious person in my life is one i must find a way to deal with. I am 34 with a young son who is now 18 months and the absolute delight of our lives. Married 7 years to the most awesome and understanding, supportive husband i could have ever asked for. I'm very blessed! We are expecing our second child now and super excited for her arrival in November.

Like many i have sought counceling and found a fabulous one a few years back that pointed out this BPD with my mother and was Dead on once i read some books. It was my life-line to feeling safe and that it really wasn't me all along and that there is nothing i can do to help it. I needed this to take a break from crazy talk and i needed it to give me the reason to sit back and focus on myself and all the positive people in my life instead of always my mother.

Since this time about 4 years now i have limited my mother's access to me and my family. Its been WONDERFUL! but every now and then she pop's back into my life with the dagger of guilt and it penetrates my security wall... . and i don't feel i have the tools to deal with it.

My councillor asked one day how it felt when she would make negative and guilted comments to me... . and i said "like a slap in the face each time" she looked at me and said "would you say being hit a few times a day is acceptable abuse?" and it clicked... . its like being around someone that hits all the time and your always ready to duck or run. There and then i began to understand BPD and my life with my mother.

About a week back it was my mothers 65th birthday ( we dreaded this event because it was to show us {my brother's family and mine} off to her friends. As we suspected it was true, very superficial and like we predicted all her friends were new; she can't keep them much more then 5 years with her 2 faced comments. So we gave her a gift she couldn't not like a photo nicely framed of her 3 grand kids. That worked. But today i get an email of how she wants to visit me (we live 4 hrs away) and that was piggybacked with how i don't respect her. The email was a good 3 paragraphs of how my not respecting my mother was my fathers fault for not being there to teach this lesson to me (they divorced when i was 2 but i get along with my dad). Needless to say i find myself back in her fly-trap of emanational hostage looking for a response since this was was about her coming for a visit.

I know that i am to set boundaries but as a true Libra and person of BPD Mothers its so hard to come back at her and take my position. A very uncomfortable and foreign feeling like putting someones shoes on that are too small. I know she wants to get back into my circle of family and relationship building only to be close to see my son and be a part of my pregnancy and see my daughter. I try to only see her 2 times a year. That's all i can take. Part of me wants her to be fixed and hopeful but the other part knows this will never be.

My husband and i discussed the option of letting her know how i feel and that she needs help. But to say this to my mother is like giving her a gun and helping her point it my way and running away hoping she won't shoot... . Last time i told her no and that i hate coming home. She went on a tantrum and broke everything in the living room in rage. Scary for me and manipulating from her. So if i tell her yes we can work on a relationship if she seeks help she may do self harm, and then i would feel the guilt. like i pushed that button you know not to push - destruction.

So now i'm not too sure what tools i may need to deal with her now at this point. I usually delete her emails and don't respond, but i feel i have to with this one for some reason. Maybe its because i wish she could just come visit. But know that it would be like a week back, full of jab's (slaps) and little comments others don't see or understand that hurt.

So that would be the most recent of my BPD issues, as i stated i can relate on so many posts and i'm not too sure where to post next but the rant has helped already. Thanks so much again.!

[allibaba]

Hi there ObliviousRed,

I can absolutely relate to your story.  My mother is uBPD.  My husband is also uBPD.

The thing with BPD is that even though they are attacking you all the time, they really want to be close to you.  Her antics sound like my mother's antics for years.  At the end of the day, my mom was craving attention.  Like a little kid that wasn't getting the good attention she wanted, she turned to bad attention. 

There are tools that you can use to have a REAL relationship with your mom if that is what you want.  I chose that route after pushing my own mother away for years.  Once my mom realized that her games weren't going to get the intended response she amazingly stopped playing them.  It will never be a 'normal' relationship but it is a good one anyway.

I think that you have the right idea in not engaging in the Crazy behavior... . and now maybe need some tools to start working on normal communication.

Do you want your mom in your life?  I did -- and it was painful not to have her there. 

Check out the L5 Staying Board.  The lessons at the top and/ or the banner on the right will get you on your way.

[allibaba]

PS I went from barely being able to sit with my mom at lunch... . to having her stay in my house for 2 months last summer.  Its a balance between boundaries and expressing love for them. 

Also recommended reading:  Have you read the DANCE OF ANGER?  I highly recommend it.

[ObliviousRed]

wow thanks so much allibaba! i will for sure get that book you recomended and look at the posting you stated. I do want my mother in my life and it would be nice for my kids to know their grandparents; she does have great qualities but they are masked so heavy with guilt trips and comments that hurt that i have to learn to deal with it first and then slowly let her back in. My brother and i talk about it all the time. It is easy to do nothing and keep distant but there are times where it would be nice to include her in our family news and lives but i can't accept the abusive responses anymore.

So yes! i would love to know how to move forward from here and begin to control my boundaries and enable more freedom for her and less stress from me. For sure the distance has made me see very clearly how much its affected me, now i'm in a good position for baby steps to help get the best response for me and my family out of her. I agree that the child like behaviour is the issue, and now having a son i see what its like. But its so hard to discipline a parent, and scary since you think they will respond with a debate or punishing like words.

Really wish things were different. Thank you for your advise you have helped get me started. I'm ordering that book now!

[Ittookthislong]

wow- new here. this sounds like my mom. its so stressful i find myself hating her more than anyone and loving her more than anyone, and being protective of her, feeling sorry for her, etc. shes an interesting character. i have a couple questions... . does anyone get that pain in their heart, stress feeling around a BPD. im starting to put things together but am also so confused.

had a breakup with someone who i felt more like a caretaker to, yet when he left he said he put up with my behavior too long... . and im clueless to what he meant. How did you guys distinguish who between the two people in your BPD relations was a BPD and did you doubt yourself as the BPD.

sorry if my questions are self centered im just worried. i havnt been able to sleep thinking maybe ive been BPD hurting others around me, so im curious if anyone else had these worries and how they got through it

[Ittookthislong]

also i had to ask that but i feel for you. this part :

"I know that i am to set boundaries but as a true Libra and person of BPD Mothers its so hard to come back at her and take my position. A very uncomfortable and foreign feeling like putting someones shoes on that are too small. I know she wants to get back into my circle of family and relationship building only to be close to see my son and be a part of my pregnancy and see my daughter. I try to only see her 2 times a year. That's all i can take. Part of me wants her to be fixed and hopeful but the other part knows this will never be.

My husband and i discussed the option "of letting her know how i feel and that she needs help. But to say this to my mother is like giving her a gun and helping her point it my way and running away hoping she won't shoot"

Its hard to feel like its just better to accept it, its not worth it to stick up for yourself. I feel tremendous guilt in an ache in my heart if i dont let my mom do her thing. dont get me wrong we argue and i  say some things, but i always pull back and let her win and go find a quiet spot till i calm down.

I dont like going home either. you and i are about the same age with similar stories, although i feel fopr you it was nice to read similar situation

[ObliviousRed]

Ittookthislong thanks for responding and its is nice to know there are similar stories out there. I already feel better finding this site today to air my thoughts in a safe and familiar place.

Regarding your BPD fear i would say the key words there are caretaker ... . its been my experience that they are not so much the caretaker as much as endlessly searching for verification that they are exceptional at everything. So they are the victim and play people to position themselves as the centre of attention and find ways of putting people on display to make them look better. Your ex might have been more dependent on the dram that you need to deal with. My husband is the first person i ever felt unconditional love from and it took about 3 yeas after we were married to understand that is what it was. And when he took my side in front of my mom a few years ago i nearly cried for the support. Its such a rewarding feeling to find someone that can see through you and past the family issues but support you as a person trying to get away from the negativity.

My husband didn't know my mom was crazy until the night before my wedding when she showed some true colours ... . he thought it was something he could solve... . then i had to tell him all about it. But he figured it out fast and that i was not her. So not to worry the right person will see this. However, if you are at all concerned that you are the BPD then i would talk to a councillor. I have worked with one over the past few years not in fear i was but trying to untangle this web my mom has made around me emotionally. There are still many knots but i know now that some just can't be untied and how to deal with some too.

In this case now my mom is manipulating me from our last visit, and i have to put a hard stop to it. Its kind of black and white "Either you act like this, or you can't see me" the boundaries are hard for me.

They cause me stress because i've never had the power in my life - its been given up to her until a few years back.

Her comments push me away and that is how i keep safe. But sometimes i have to face the music and pull out the "NO, you can't do this anymore... . I won't allow you to" and take the power back. I have help doing this, its so hard.

The anxiety each visit, each talk, each email read brings to me takes weeks to digest it echo's on and on. Even though i know i can't fix it, its still hard to hear or read. i think that this support forum will help a lot with the digesting of BPD behaviour.

Thanks for your reply its nice to know there are others that are caught in the emotional tie. I do hope things get better for you.

[Ittookthislong]

i left out the part about the ex sleeping with other women if i wasnt around one weekend, like i had to be there at all times, but if i was there too much he felt crowded.

my mom had these crazy rages while we were growing up and she would say horrendous things. about me being disgusting, or men wont want me, wishes she never had me, ruined her life, i looked like a dyke, the list goes on... . and i delt with it pretty decently. Id brush it off or actually empathize with her like, she loves me she must really be under stress. She used to talk to me about marital problems, and problems with her friends on my way to school when i was 13 or so, so i kinda became used to switching between her caretaker and her punching bag. Thing is, Now its gotten to the point where ive got nothing left, i feel like i never spend time on me and if i do i feel guilt and selfishness. But now that i want to focus on me my mom has debilitating illness and i have to stay close by and sometimes change diapers, tie shoes etc. I feel anger building in me.

My most recent ex was definitly an escape from that. we laughed and he never said there was a problem. i felt very comfortable, but did do a lot of caretaking. when i say that i dont know what he means that he put up with me, i really dont. I mean everything was fine i was never angry with him so i cant imagine i yelled, but i did pay for a lot, and i guess some people see that as controlling, but still after i bent over backwards for this last ex, in every way imaginable (including providing housing and helping or TRYING to help with his career when he was struggling) he got a new job, left me and  said "Im not gonna let you get in the way of my dreams"

he has a great job and i am now broke and taking care of my mom. I KNOW i did it to myself, i know i was stupid and naive but people might forget when you grow up taking care of others sometimes you dont even realize your doing anything out of the norm it feels natural.

so "Your not getting in the way of my dreams... . "

it floored me. we never fought... . it triggered me or something because this is why im scared im a BPD. maybe it had something to do with stuff my mom used to say, maybe it had to do with expending all my energy on others when i know full well i shouldnt have... . but I experienced the kind of rage i have never felt before and ac ted like a psycho ex. and it frightened me. i still have guilt. i acted like my mom used to and ive never done that before. its new to me to have behaved like a crazy woman and now im a psycho to our mutual friends, completely cut off etc.

this ache in my heart has not gone away for months. i feel it all day. i feel broken all the sudden.

thing is, i know ive put up with some crazy mind bending abuse, but then i read that borderlines think everyone abuses them and now im confused... . completely. and i feel guilt, thanks for response i appreciate you taking the time to read- i know this is kind of a downer but i have nobody to talk about this with right now

[allibaba]

ObliviousRed,

Note that the book that I recommended isn't actually a book on BPD but a therapist gave it to me when I was working through the issues with my mom.  I have to say that I too felt the pull of wanting and needing her in my life but then I also felt the constant stress of worrying about what NUTTY thing she was going to say or do next.  The guilt trips were unreal.  The book is essentially about boundaries and gives good examples of a mother and daughter working through them.  The greatest part about enforcing boundaries is that you have absolutely no need to get her buy-in.  It sounds like you have already done some work on the relationship with your mom (even the simple step of not replying to the crazy messages immediately).

One word of caution, in my experience it doesn't do any good to let her know that you believe that she is BPD and needs help.  Often times a BPD will either use this as an excuse for not getting better or they will try to turn the tables on you and point to the fact that YOU are the one to blame.  

There were two things about this site that helped me - 1. Knowing that I am not alone.  2.  Reading through the lessons.

Its not an easy road, but the joy and peace of having some relationship with your mom will be well worth the reward.  I remember thinking all the way along that I was going to lose her forever... . but it didn't happen.  

[ObliviousRed]

Thanks so much Alibaba & Ittookthislong I have bought the book about anger i think it may help me get past that part better if i can understand more about dealing with it and how. Its not a raged anger but more of a resentment and closed off feeling. Like i don't care either way what happens to my mom, sometimes is so sad i often think that when she is gone one day (far from now i'm sure) but none the less that i will have no reaction or fear that i will have a sense of relief? No more criticisms or assumptions of who i am to her but am not. That is the hurtful part is that i know i'm a good person and wish she would stop reading into things with her ideas of me. She wants to come visit and get to know me she said but i told her full stop that she can come only when she stops her negative behaviour. I used the Adliraian psychology of behaviour response in my email to her last night and she responeded quite normal! I felt like i had droped a bomb on her and she would just explode ... . but she was resonable with her reply. what a relief it was to me... . this boundary thing is working! and not so hard once i have now taken the first step to do it. last night i was stressed because i had come to the point in my life where i can't take her behaviour anymore and it must stop and be on my terms now. That is the only way i can see her. It will still be odd if she is around me but at least i'll be able to say what i want to say now and if she doesn't like it she can leave. Its our house, and a positive, loving one to our son and soon to be daughter - i thrive here with my husband and her poisionus responses just won't do anymore. Its hard to take a stand to a parent that has paralized you with words and judjments all your life. YOu feel like she is just going to go mad and it will be all your fault (as i have been told all along). But i realize now its not my fault its her behaviour that she must own and i am now going to stop allowing her to control the environment with her jabs and uncalled for comments.

My mom would read self help books and then try to fix everyone else with the buzz words she would read about... . i wish she had picked up the book that applied to her one day and realized who the problem really was. Not us, her. I agree Alibaba that if i tell her about BPD she would turn it on me, another judjment and not want to face the facts - its hard to manage this kind of person all the time. Exhausting but i feel with some good hard boundaries it might just do. I was thinking too small, placing boundaries like a child - each time they do something fixt it. but then i thought i will go big and say none of that ever or you go home. Avoiding all the small comments that she may just try, this would be easier for me to say i'm sorry if you say these things you will have to leave.

It is empowering but puts her into her place and keeps the negativity away from me.

All i can do is try. The point i'm at here is that if she never comes its ok with me too now, but it would be nice to see her now and then, just in a positive light.

So now i have to find a way to respond to her email where she has turned on the "I'm sorry you feel that way" onto me as a manipulation technique - i will only drive home the positive message that she is wanted but on my terms now. That is all that is to be said about that.

She thinks that the more we see each other the better it will be but i don't agree, slow and steady wins the race. The tension of her in my space is something that needs to be addressed, like i said earlier when your around someone that you are used to hitting you with words; its not easy to stop flinching.

But we can only try and try.

[allibaba]

Hey there again!

I was trying to find a self-help book for my husband and Grey Kitty mentioned a cartoon where the SELF HELP section was empty and the SPOUSE HELP section was overcrowded.   

Your mom's behavior has more to do with her own insecurities than it has to do with you.

You mentioned that you want her to own her problem.  With a BPD this will likely never happen. 

What you need to do is to establish the relationship with her on YOUR terms.  I think that you get that part. 

I think that what may be missing from your approach is making her feel loved and validated.  That is likely all she wants in life.  Its hard to be kind when your mom is acting crazy.

A person example of where I had to learn to love my mom regardless of her craziness is as follows:    My own mother decided to tell members of my family that I had kidnapped my father.    

My parents had been divorced for 15 yrs and my dad got very sick.  My mom wanted me to throw him into a state run care home and forget about him (in her mind his illness was abandoning her).  Strange thinking for me.  I went and got my dad and put him into a rehabilitation center which was very expensive but it bought 5 yrs back in his life.  I monitored my mom's contact with my dad while he recovered from a brain injury.  When I realized that her contacting him had such a negative impact on him, I cut off their contact permanently.  To this day, my mom believes that I kidnapped my father and that is the only way that he wouldn't contact her.  We agree to disagree on this point and this situation.  My relationship with my uncle was ruined because my mom told him that I had lost my mind and he didn't want to speak with me.  A year later, my uncle died of a heart attack.  Its sad but I don't blame my mom.  I did what I had to do.

Here is a link on radical acceptance:

Radical Acceptance for family members

I'm also going to throw in a few links which may be helpful to you in starting this journey regarding communication:

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)

Reinforcing good behavior, positive reinforcement

My therapist at the time told me that I had to deal with the situation with my mom because if I didn't, I was risking eventually passing this dynamic onto my children.  That made sense to me. 

Today my mom and I have a good (but not normal relationship).  She never sends me the guilt ridden emails (I used to get 5 pgs of - "I don't know what you have become.  and you have changed emails."  She knows now that there are certain things she just can't get away with if she wants to interact with me.  Strangely it was my uBPD husband who held my hand through this very painful process with my mom.  He had a unique perspective on things and her needs.

I hope that I didn't overwhelm you with links! 

[ObliviousRed]

Thanks again Alibaba that was exactly what i was looking for! I have the very same experience with my mom regarding my dad and family, however they now know she is the one that has an issue and they all keep away and delete her emails. Although my mom and dad devorced when i was 2, he is still the centre to every debate and comment of what is wrong with me.

I have figured this part out but the part i can't get a handle on is as you stated and nailed it :

"I think that what may be missing from your approach is making her feel loved and validated.  That is likely all she wants in life.  Its hard to be kind when your mom is acting crazy."

This is very hard for me, i am not an emotional person who expresses anything to people, it was hard enough with my husband. Easy for my son but my mom... . well we never expressed feelings ever. A part of me wants to never express them to make her keep back a bit, not to be too close to me. And to i guess isolate her. But i do know this is what she is after, it would help and i could use the guidance to look at a way that may work for both of us.

Thank you for all the links that is what i needed! its great to have people that know what i need and where to go to get it.

I do understand the victim portion of BPD that my Therapist explained to me, but the situational aspects that arrise as they have this week, are where i need to find people and tools to help work through them.

Her latest email in response to my full stop " don't come visit with a negative attitude" granted her response:

"I am really sorry you feel that my visiting you is negative. The distance that is growing between us makes me feel very uncomfortable to say the least and I may not be handling it the way you think I should. I was hoping that the visit with you would help dissolve this distance between us by allowing me to get to know you as a mother and you to get to know me as a grandmother. The only way I can see closeness happen is we get together and talk. If you have another approach tell me and we will discuss it as our next step.

Love Mom"

NOW... . she has done counselling for years but changes them once they catch onto her. So she is using the methods well on us (always did... . we are the problem not her).

But i have to find a good response to this tonight and still keep my position that if she visits she does so in my house with my boundaries and rules.

I'm just not sure how to word it yet. I don't want to talk on the phone or she will go on and on and find ways to hurt with words. So i'll keep it to email for now. Once i sent my email to her (i never email her anymore) she called all our phones twice and left no message about 10 min. after pushing 'send'.

Ahhhh sigh, what to do.

so much to manage.

THanks so much once again.

[allibaba]

ObliviousRed,

We've moved your post over to the forum where lots of people have experience dealing with BPD parents.  This is really the first time that I have posted on this side.  I usually post on the Staying board because my situation with my uBPD mom is largely managed.  My situation with my uBPD husband is still a fresh work in progress.  LOL

I am not an emotional person either.  Frankly my mom didn't give a lot of love when I was little.  We were there to serve her needs.  I cannot once remember my mom telling me that she loved me.  I'm not saying this because I told a grudge.  She loved me the best way that she knew how.  Just saying it because I know that is why I am a tad stunted in this area.  Its something I have to work hard on with my son. 

The one thing that I'll say is that boundaries are often better to be enforced in the moment (at least my experience).  ":)on't come visit with a negative attitude" throws up all sorts of walls.

I actually really like her email to you (regardless of what her motives are!) I would respond with something like:  "I have been really uncomfortable with the distance between us and am looking forward to your visit."

You then deal with boundaries as and when they are required.  For example if she starts to get negative during a conversation in front of your family, you might say "mother i'm not comfortable having this discussion now.  Let's revisit this in private later. If I feel that you are being negative, I will have to step outside for a few minutes."  Immediately in the moment let's her know *if I don't feel comfortable* then I will remove myself.

So that's my thought... . hoping that some more experienced people will jump in as well with their two cents.   

[ObliviousRed]

Hi Alibabba, thank you yes that was the guidance i needed - something more effective then what i have in my own mind. I was trying to control it with an all or nothing approach. Her response was more normal then i expected though. However, i agree with you and will try your suggestion. I was working on wording similar but didn't want to open the door to more unnecessary hurt.

So for now i will try to address her and give validation as a newbie and see where i can go from here. I know that this site will be very good for helping me direct my words accordingly and strive for better understandings of my situation.

Thanks so much and i will review this board too for more posts i can relate to for help.

Thanks a million - what a great chat!