My biggest fear :)

[sjm7411]

When my BPh gets like this, I know it's really because he thinks he is losing me and he feels helpless.  Clearly your H is off the deep end because you are becoming strong and he thinks you're eventually going to stop putting up with him.  He isn't hearing the "I love you's", all he's seeing is your strength to walk away.  Scary stuff for BPD, I think.  Is it also possible that he thinks you and your mom will conspire against him while she's visiting?  I wish I had some advice for you that could make him stop, but unfortunately I think he is on this roller coaster for an undefined amount of time until he realizes you aren't going anywhere.  The fear of abandonment is completely dysregulating him. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[allibaba]

I wish I had some advice for you that could make him stop, but unfortunately I think he is on this roller coaster for an undefined amount of time until he realizes you aren't going anywhere.  The fear of abandonment is completely dysregulating him.  

I agree and the irony is that I am NOT going anywhere!  I adore this man even in the middle of all this.  I can detach and understand that his fear is driving him.  He HATES the fact that I am not available to take his stress out on... . it must be so hard for him to self-sooth.  

This is just a ride that I have to take.  Can't get off in the middle.  I think that he'll do better tomorrow when I show up at home.  The reason that I am not going home tonight is that it normally takes 2-3 days for him to calm down after a meltdown.  I don't want to go back and have to turn around and leave because he is being abusive.



I think that the stress over my mom is that she heard him call me a stupid f**** c**** around Easter time.  I was on the phone with her and I don't think that he realized it.  This was before I started enforcing boundaries   Now he thinks that she is out to get him.  She loves being around him when he's being himself (not dyregulated!).  Granted right now she thinks my life would be better without him but she knows better than to insert herself into this matter.  Amazing self awareness for a uBPD (my mom).

[allibaba]

He just sent me two messages making sure that "I didn't forget to pick up our son."  Yeah... . like I would forget him!

He then called to tell me that all of my stuff is sitting out by the side of the road in trash bags.  I honestly, honestly don't care if it is.  Why is that so strange to me.

He then hung up on me and called back to tell me that both of our dogs are still missing (they aren't)... . they are at home.  He just got off at work and wanted to pull my strings.  I think that I will take my son out to dinner tonight... . maybe somewhere nice

Back to trudging the road of happy destiny.  If he calls again... . I won't answer but I tried to sound as loving as possible when I did speak with him.

[allibaba]

He just called a bunch of times and then sent the following message:

Your stuff is at the gate.  I would recommend that you collect it before the storms hit tonight and tomorrow.  I have no desire to see you but a hell of a lot of really good crap will be ruined.  Literally everything that you own is outside so GOOD LUCK.

Don't mean to give minutely updates but he is really in the middle of the mother-of-all extinction bursts!

I am at peace if I lose all my stuff.

[123Phoebe]

He may be bluffing, but I think I'd be a bit concerned about my stuff (including child, animals... . ) and I wouldn't be at peace with it, or him for behaving this way.

Take good care of yourself and all that you hold near and dear, he sounds a little out there right now.

[allibaba]

He's now sent me pictures of the empty closet, my empty bathroom drawers, everything out by the side of the road. 

Any suggested responses?  Do I just keep ignoring the behavior? 

I have had it.  Everything can be replaced.

[123Phoebe]

What about calling the police?  See what they suggest doing.

[allibaba]

I'm really not interesting in getting the police involved over trinkets.  They would escort him off the property.  That would definitely be the end of our marriage.  This is one big massive act of adult tantrum.

I was thinking of sending him a message asking him how he would feel if I had taken everything he owned and dumped it on the side of the road?

[123Phoebe]

His behavior is escalating.  You have no control over what he does or decides to do. 

[KateCat]

Can you ask the police to pay a visit to your residence to do a "wellness check" on an individual in crisis?

[Grey Kitty]

I'm really not interesting in getting the police involved over trinkets.  They would escort him off the property.  That would definitely be the end of our marriage.  This is one big massive act of adult tantrum.

He's escalating. You are ignoring. He continues escalating. Don't "test" him to see how much farther he will go.

I'm afraid this isn't working anymore. Time for something different.

Regarding the police, there is a possible middle ground:

Call him and tell him that this is not acceptable, and that you will involve the police if he doesn't stop immediately. First make sure you do have the ability to back this one up. If you are planning to go back to the shelter tonight, you can probably get assistance liaising with the police from them.

I was thinking of sending him a message asking him how he would feel if I had taken everything he owned and dumped it on the side of the road?

He's completely dysregulated. Don't expect him to understand anything.

[KateCat]

Don't "test" him to see how much farther he will go.

This is crucial. Backing completely away right now gives you the best chance to avoid irreparable harm to you, your son, and your husband.

[allibaba]

He's told me that my stuff is on the side of the road - waiting for me - totally available and that he's not hurting anything.

[allibaba]

I guess that his NPD is out.

[4now]

I just wanted to send you some support and good vibes!

I can imagine this must be very hard for you, even if you are hoping for the best, this type of behavior is hurtful. 

I agree that the NPD is out in full force, as well as the BPD.

I don't know where you go from here. 

You said you wouldn't get the police to escort him off because that would be the end of your marriage for sure.  You know that is really his decision to react that way, it wouldn't be your fault.  I understand you don't want to escalate anything, but it seems no matter what you do he is reacting and escalating. 

Has the shelter given any advice or insight?  I worry about your safety as this is way off the charts to just put your stuff outside.  Did he put your son's stuff outside too?  Is it really outside or did he just send pics of the empty closets? Not that it matters, except it's perhaps another attempt at mind games.

 Stay strong and be careful!

[KateCat]

Would it make sense for you to call a local moving service and have them transport your possessions to a storage facility? (It seems they would be easy to identify, if they are outside the residence.)

My sense is that anything that will avoid "shaming him" or challenging him at this time is to your advantage. If the marriage is to have a chance of repair in the future, it could be crucial that you not appear to be belittling him or daring him in any way.

Allibaba, I believe he has hit you and thrown things at/near you in the past, right? Please don't return home right now. This really is a crisis.

[allibaba]

I sent him a message telling him that "I am picking up my stuff."  I went and got it (it was at the end of a long, long, long driveway). 

I am back at the domestic violence shelter.  Once my son goes to bed, I will find out what my legal rights are with respect to the house.  I had to leave under duress and my husband has removed all my belongings without my consent.  I understand that in this jurisdiction, a mother with a child always gets to stay in the house for the welfare of the child.  I am still clinging to the notion that he'll snap out of it, but I cannot continue like this.

I really don't know what else to do.  I am completely back into a corner now.  It seems that he is hell bent to force me out of his life.

My husband has hit me before (nothing significant) more as a show of power than to actually hurt me.  Its been a very long time.  I told him that if he ever did it again, I would leave him. 

I'll find out what my legal rights are and then if I have to have him removed, I will.

[KateCat]

So proud of you! 

This is such tough stuff, but it's possible that the worst of this crisis will now be over soon. Your plan is very sensible and it is the stuff that family courts have much experience with.

Does your husband have someplace he can stay for a while to make the transition easier for him?

[waverider]

OOuch a lot has happened since I last checked in.

You are definitely at a turning point in your life one way or another.

I am guessing in the past you would have reacted like a headless chuck and joined in the chaos. What is happening here is you have a better sense of understanding and are able to look more objectively and less emotional at things. You are more in control of you.

Too him though its not about you, its about him. He sees you now controlling him, and being less emotional about him. He cant soothe by projecting onto you, so he's left with facing his own dramas. So he tries harder to project by escalating to get you to fight back so that he can prove to himself that it is all your fault. Its not working, so he tries harder and it escalates. This is the process of blocking projection at work.

I went through a similar reaction when I first started blocking projection. Partner ended up having a mental breakdown and ODing (she was prone to OD's as coping mechanism, more self harm than suicidal). It was however the crisis she had to have. I believe he probably has to have this crisis.

It is your job now to stay firm and do the appropriate things for everyones safety. This is not him being evil, it is him having a breakdown. It needs to run its course with the least imput from you as possible so that you dont confuse exactly what it is about.

By the tone of your words it is obvious that you are also at that point of clarity that you are not going back to your old ways of being bullied and scared. You know that, and now he knows that.

I think it is a good idea to at least make a report to the police that you believe he is having a breakdown just in case anything does happen.

Has he ever self harmed or been suicidal in the past?

[KateCat]

waverider has wonderful advice.

What's great about going through family court and even possibly alerting police to the fact that your husband is having a mental crisis is that you are helping keep things outside the criminal arena. If none of this "prep work" were to take place, and if the police were to arrive at the scene of a domestic disturbance with a fellow this out of control, he would likely be headed for jail.

A physical separation now, done through the courts, can protect your husband from himself at a time when he is very psychologically vulnerable.

[allibaba]

He's been going to work.  He's socializing as if nothing is happening.  Apparently the only one viewing the meltdown is me.  I don't really have any basis to report a meltdown to the police.  Reporting it to the police would also make him ineligible for a volunteer activity that he participates in.  I am not willing to do that.  I have plenty of documentation of his mental state through his messages.  The shelter resources say that it is clear that he has mental issues just based on the way that he is writing.

I am definitely at a turning point.  I just sat with a close friend in the parking lot and let her know what we going on.  She says that she doesn't want me at the shelter.  She wants me at her house.  She says that she has plenty of room for the dogs.  She said that ultimately we need to get him out of the house but that is a task for another day.  She asked me to please move my belongings to her garage. 

In the past I definitely participated in the chaos.  Not so much in the back and forth drama but I would have been at home already holding his hand telling him that everything would be ok.  The problem is that it won't be.  Its getting worse.  I stopped doing that soothing when my son was born.  I guess that I realized that things had to change a long time ago... .

So so so tired.  So good night.

[allibaba]

This will be my last posting on the staying board... .

I have contacted several lawyers and will be in the process of trying to get him out of the house.  

I'm devastated but I know that I have done more than the average person to make this work.  He hates me -- whether it be because we aren't compatible, or because he has issues, or because I support us and it makes him feel less than... .

Received the following message this morning:

6/27/2013 9:03 PM: Me: I walked away from you when you got aggressive because I want our marriage to work and I knew that we couldn't continue in a cycle that just kept getting worse and worse.

6/27/2013 9:04 PM: Me: I did not leave to abandon you.

6/28/2013 8:34 AM: Him: I am a fool for wasting my time on you... . all you did was suck the life out of me... . glad u got ur X... . i will pack the rest today and tomorrow

6/28/2013 8:37 AM: Him: U r a runner... . u dont fix things... . u run and hope things will have changed when you return   u have lived ur entire life like that right up till your last run... . u have been running from reality ur whole life which is why you have no friends or family... . you dont invest in people... . no one... . i lived with a zombie... . no hobbies interests friends smiles sharing extended family... . nothing... . a human doing... . not a human being

6/28/2013 8:39 AM: Him: U r more like ur father than u realize... . u had better be very careful with how you live the rest of ur life

6/28/2013 8:39 AM: Him: GOODBYE

My father is an alcoholic who has both Korzakoff Sydrome and Alzheimers.  He is in a dementia care facility and is basically crazy (sadly).

I have tried so hard but its just not enough.

If he comes back and says he will change, I will agree to only the following conditions:

1.  He gets out of the house and finds an apt.

2.  He goes to therapy and works on himself.

3.  I see stability for 6-12 months.

[tiredpartner]

Wow, I think you are married to my BPDp. You are so strong. I wish I found all of you when I sat where you are sitting. I have been in your exact situation too many times and I had no idea what was going on, I was so confused. I wish I could give you advice but unfortunately I probably did not handle it the way I should have. Again, I was clueless about what was going on. I just knew something was wrong. And as the tornado spins back around, it's as if nothing happened. I am learning so much from all of you and just from this post. My BPDp is also going through an episode but I feel fortunate that it has not gotten as far this time. I want to thank you for sharing your story, for giving me hope for my happiness and/or relationship and reaching for support here (as turning to this site can be a trigger in my house). Thank you for being so strong for yourself, your son and for the BPD supporters. I will be thinking of you and wishing only good things for you and your son. I feel in my heart that what you said is true, what you are doing, no matter the outcome, is the right path. I'm relieved you have such a good friend by your side. Please let us know what happens.

[Rockylove]

Oh, my dear allibaba!  I'm so sorry this is happening!  Please, please... . take care of yourself and your child.  The dogs will be fine.  I know how hard it is and I've taken my dogs to a friend's house for a while just to have them have some safe haven.  If you can get to them without having to deal with your H, then by all means... . take them to your friend's home where you know they are welcome and safe.  It doesn't sound very good at the moment and it may get better, but there's just no telling.  I care about you!

[patientandclear]

Allibaba -- I am now relating so profoundly to your situation.  These dynamics are so like the ones I confronted in my former marriage (not with the BPD man who caused me to find this site).

The escalating list of threats (mostly empty, some not) designed to prevent me from enforcing boundaries.  The cruel things said that I thought I could discount -- obviously, he didn't believe them, he just was looking for ammunition -- and later found did so much deep damage that it set me up nicely to lose my grip entirely when being courted by a BPD man who told me I was amazing.

I read your latest posts on Undecided, and just want to say -- this is the moment of the second bus.  (Other readers, this is a reference to a discussion on an earlier thread.)  This is where he tells you he needs you back.  That he's got a plan.  That he'll stop being hurtful and destructive.

It is really just the next step on the manipulation ladder.  Throwing your stuff out, threatening your dogs, saying he'd pick up your son -- that didn't work.  So now he's trying something he thinks might work.  But that's not because he's decided those other things he did were wrong, and it's not because he won't resort to them again.

If you get on the second bus -- if you hold out for real change -- there is some chance that he will actually take it on himself to examine some stuff that is really worth examining.

If you don't -- if you just go back and draw momentary solace from the fact that he's no longer attacking you -- I'd guess there is very little chance of real change.  In fact, he will have learned that making you utterly miserable and attacking you, and then being somewhat regretful, will lead you ... . back into his arms and his life.

You've worked hard to meaningfully defend the values that really matter to you.  Of course -- of course! -- he is going to switch to asking you to come back. The other path wasn't going so well.  This part is so much harder.  This is truly where I was when I didn't get on the second bus.

As you know, my relationship with my exH only got better (and we are genuinely friends now) when I finally did not go back.  It took a couple of years after that.  No, he doesn't have BPD, but he has some kind of PD and was astonishingly comfortable blaming me for all the disappointments in his life.  I had to be well, well clear for it to become evident to him that I was not the cause.



P&C

[allibaba]

Hi patientandclear,

Thank you for the continued support.  Regardless of whether I go back to the house or not... . it would be with conditions.

I AM NOT AND WILL NEVER ACCEPT THE OLD SITUATION.  EVERY AGAIN.

I will make the changes that I need to in my life with or without my husband. 

I have crafted a better safety plan including -- car key hidden in shed (I went home to talk last night), bag of supplies at friend's house, key to both my house and friend's house hidden.

Regardless of where I am physically... . psychologically I am on that second bus 

[Rockylove]

 

I love the strength you are showing right now.  Inspirational to say the least!  I wish I had some great words of wisdom, but alas... . I've nothing but admiration for your tenacity and I hope things settle down for you very soon. 

[allibaba]

Its a good feeling to know that our situation needs to change.

I'm back at the house though and am conflicted about what I need to do.

I came back primarily because if you leave in our jurisdiction... . its almost impossible to get back to the house.

My mom is here and his physical rage is gone.  What's left is a general frustration w me.  Nothing I do is acceptable. 

I've spoken w 2 lawyers and I will met w them to understand my rights and obligations here.

[123Phoebe]

I'm back at the house though and am conflicted about what I need to do.

his physical rage is gone.  What's left is a general frustration w me.  Nothing I do is acceptable. 

Is what he's doing acceptable in any way, shape or form?

I've spoken w 2 lawyers and I will met w them to understand my rights and obligations here.

When are you scheduled to meet with the lawyers? 

[Blazing Star]

Just keep breathing allibaba.

Breathing and eating well and getting some good sleep. No need to make any decisions at the moment, wait until you speak to the lawyers.

Let his words and his frustration wash over you, water off a ducks back, remind yourself of this often.

Know that you are worthy and you are wonderful.

We are here for you.

Love Blazing Star