Tonight my dh was the most validating one in our household

[Parents! Get help here!]

tonight my dh was the most validating one in our household in the midst of DD's severe depression and a very agitating response to new med. (topomax) She took the second med (clonodine), for helping her sleep and it worked magic to settle her. Dh got home just on the edge of the settling and was calm and filled with what I call his "entertainment value". He really worked to hear her, and used very mild tone of humor to move all of us into a more 'normative state'. Fruzzetti uses that pharase often in his talk on validation. That some mild forms of invaldation are also 'normal' - though harder for pwBPD to cope with.

Not sure this makes any sense. DD invited me into her appt. with the crisis PA at mental health to evalutate her meds today. I did a good job of keeping my tongue in my mouth, only speaking when asked a direct question, or getting a questioning look from DD. She had an intense reaction to the antidepressant med - so not likely to continue taking it. But took her sleep aid med that calmed her agitation. The awesome part is SHE WENT TO HER APPT.  She did not want to go, but got up, grumbled all the way there, and then was very vulnerable showing her severely depressed state. Well, maybe she is so far down it was not in her control.

The other part, DD was able to be validating with gd8 today, getting to lose the sad face and join us with enthusiasm for dinner. She even chose to sit by her mom. DD shared that she told gd that it was not her fault, it was mommy's.

I was also validated all week by openness of crisis team with DD. She has never cut, to my knowledge before -- or this was the first time she did this in my presence. Such a loud reaching out for me to stay connected and not withdraw from her, even when I felt very threatened. Each member of the team has supported our boundaries about DD staying in our home -- and knowing she will be homeless if she cannot manage her behaviors. She was close to having to leave tonight. But I realized it was partly med. reaction and partly accusations via text from the house she was kicked out of this week. She actually shared with dh and I the things that went wrong -- she is saying she is innocent of the charges, but at least talking about them with us. Now the next step for her to follow through with the new therapy team.

Also talked to her lawyer today for her probation revokation hearing in 3 weeks. She also validated me as I shared limits on our ability to help DD with alternative jail or probation options. And limits on her living in our home. So she is most likely going to ask for the PACE program - a partner program of probation and mental health. DD has heard not so good things from other homeless in the program. Or she can get into another team talked about today, that I can't remember name of. It is built on living, job and CBT skills. If she can get connected into this one on her medicaid, then maybe she can stay there on probation. I am now glad for the delay in her hearing - time for DD to make some important choices.

Hope this is not too long and involved. Tried to stay on topic - with my 10,000 thoughts.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

tonight my dh was the most validating one in our household in the midst of DD's severe depression and a very agitating response to new med. (topomax) She took the second med (clonodine), for helping her sleep and it worked magic to settle her. Dh got home just on the edge of the settling and was calm and filled with what I call his "entertainment value". He really worked to hear her, and used very mild tone of humor to move all of us into a more 'normative state'. Fruzzetti uses that pharase often in his talk on validation. That some mild forms of invaldation are also 'normal' - though harder for pwBPD to cope with.

Not sure this makes any sense. DD invited me into her appt. with the crisis PA at mental health to evalutate her meds today. I did a good job of keeping my tongue in my mouth, only speaking when asked a direct question, or getting a questioning look from DD. She had an intense reaction to the antidepressant med - so not likely to continue taking it. But took her sleep aid med that calmed her agitation. The awesome part is SHE WENT TO HER APPT.  She did not want to go, but got up, grumbled all the way there, and then was very vulnerable showing her severely depressed state. Well, maybe she is so far down it was not in her control.

The other part, DD was able to be validating with gd8 today, getting to lose the sad face and join us with enthusiasm for dinner. She even chose to sit by her mom. DD shared that she told gd that it was not her fault, it was mommy's.

I was also validated all week by openness of crisis team with DD. She has never cut, to my knowledge before -- or this was the first time she did this in my presence. Such a loud reaching out for me to stay connected and not withdraw from her, even when I felt very threatened. Each member of the team has supported our boundaries about DD staying in our home -- and knowing she will be homeless if she cannot manage her behaviors. She was close to having to leave tonight. But I realized it was partly med. reaction and partly accusations via text from the house she was kicked out of this week. She actually shared with dh and I the things that went wrong -- she is saying she is innocent of the charges, but at least talking about them with us. Now the next step for her to follow through with the new therapy team.

Also talked to her lawyer today for her probation revokation hearing in 3 weeks. She also validated me as I shared limits on our ability to help DD with alternative jail or probation options. And limits on her living in our home. So she is most likely going to ask for the PACE program - a partner program of probation and mental health. DD has heard not so good things from other homeless in the program. Or she can get into another team talked about today, that I can't remember name of. It is built on living, job and CBT skills. If she can get connected into this one on her medicaid, then maybe she can stay there on probation. I am now glad for the delay in her hearing - time for DD to make some important choices.

Hope this is not too long and involved. Tried to stay on topic - with my 10,000 thoughts.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

New struggle is DD arrested today for harassment of bfM a week ago. Since bf/gf domestic violence a part of charge and arrest is required. Police officer told her yesterday she needed to come talk with him - he did not mention it was to be arrested. I had talked with this officer a week ago on DD "great meltdown day". Yes, she was capable of grabbing him or hitting him that day. DD just called, and I told her she is a strong person and can endure whatever comes. She said "I know you wanted to drop me off here" then her call time was up. This was her free jail call. I did not say anything about bailing her out - think she is where she needs to be until her probation revokation hearing on DWAI July 12. The time may count toward that charge as well. Let her public defender know she is in jail - told dd this as well.

So am I being judgemental here with DD? Or is this letting the natural consequences of her craziness last week sit on her?

qcr  

qcr

You know qcr... . I don't think you are being judgmental with your D by letting the chips fall where they may regarding her behavior with her BF. You told the truth, and followed the law... . You yourself made no judgments with her, the LAW made the judgment and you followed it. She will do all she can to try to make you responsible for her arrest, and all she can do to try to make you feel guilty. Though you probably feel a tinge of guilt (I probably would, too--however irrational that may be!), I hope you don't let it cause you any pain or discomfort. I think you are right that she is where she should be right now... . in a safe place, paying for her behavior, and leaving you and your family in a bit of a respite from the crazy.   My love to all of you... .  

[qcarolr]

You know qcr... . I don't think you are being judgmental with your D by letting the chips fall where they may regarding her behavior with her BF. You told the truth, and followed the law... . You yourself made no judgments with her, the LAW made the judgment and you followed it. She will do all she can to try to make you responsible for her arrest, and all she can do to try to make you feel guilty. Though you probably feel a tinge of guilt (I probably would, too--however irrational that may be!), I hope you don't let it cause you any pain or discomfort. I think you are right that she is where she should be right now... . in a safe place, paying for her behavior, and leaving you and your family in a bit of a respite from the crazy.   My love to all of you... .  

Her call from jail - it does tug my heart. Of course there is another woman there that knows ex-bfM is with a new gf already. DD feels like he did this on purpose to be with someone else. I tried to lean into this with her - be validating of crappy this feels. I do not know if it is true. My intuition - he has wanted her to accept a jail sentence since DWAI conviction last October. Then he can do whatever he wants guilt free. He really wants to travel - and DD is on probation and cannot go. I think part of the meltdown last week has to do with him convincing DD to go to this Gathering in Montana. Total violatoin of her probation. They were pushing the rules getting money, shopping for camping gear... .   And maybe part was DD self-sabatoge in her fear of this journey. WHAT A MESS!

Yes, she is distraught at my not commiting to bonding her out tomorrow. If they give her bond. I have left a message with her public defender to see if she has any ideas about what to expect tomorrow. If I go to her hearing at the jail, she will expect me to bond her out. I told her I do not know what we will choose to do. They cut her call short because she was crying and so upset - "please mom, don't abandon me here." Feel the squeeze between that rock and hard place.

qcr :'(

[Rapt Reader]

Oh, qcarolr... . This does sound like the BF was a brat here, and did what he could to conveniently get your daughter out of his way to go on this trip, and have a new GF, or whatever... . Yuck! I can see why you have compassion for her, and wish you knew what the right thing is to do  :'(

I don't know what that is... . I think you've done the right thing so far; letting her pay her consequences and standing out of the way of that. Maybe this stay in jail will be her "hitting the bottom" moment? I know it took my son's trip to the Psych Ward of our local hospital by the Sheriff's Dept. (in handcuffs, no less! Cuffed to the ER bench for 6 hours!) because of his suicidal ideation of earlier that day, to hit his bottom. If my H and I had been home that Saturday (instead of driving through SC on our way home from our FL vacation!), my other son wouldn't have gotten involved by phone with dBPDs36 (S34 is 5 hours away from our home) and panicked and called 911 to take care of it. My H and I would've handled him differently (we are used to his depressions and suicidal thoughts for the last 17 years), he would've gotten help, but not in a traumatic way... .

And, I doubt the bottom would've fallen out for him at that time. And there would've been no stay in a Dual Diagnosis Center as the condition to be let out of the Psych Ward, and no BPD diagnosis and no being directed to this website~~and no NFT and no recovery as he knows it now. So, in the long run, his terrible trauma (and really, he could've spent the night at home on that Saturday; I had already talked him down from his SI from my cellphone in the car in SC!) for something that seemed maybe unnecessary turned out to be a blessing and the turning point in his troubled, chaotic life. Maybe this can be your D's turn? I pray that it is so, and also for you and your whole family  

[qcarolr]

Vivek  - how do you remember all these gems that just fit what needs to be said? I take notes, watch/read over and over -- it all gets to be such a muddle. Maybe I am just too tired.

I do feel like I have been validating the invalid in jail calls today -- agreeing with how awful it is for M to press charges, to be with another gf, to not be there when he said he would (though this is his pattern)... .

Validating her feelings to say how awful this must feel from someone who claimed only a week ago to love you, and now he has pressed charges and is with someone else. I have put it both ways.

She sounds so very young on the phone later today, after the initial anger is gone. She is sharing a cell with 2 others, one sleeping on the floor. Jail must be very very crowded. Cannot imagine using toilet in front of these strangers -- there is no such thing as privacy in jail.

I need help with words, phrases, to let her know we love her, and get how awful jail is. Yet this is what can happen when you get in someone's face. And her talk of taking vengence ---

"Bottom line is they need treatment, isn't it?"  YES. This is what my need is - for her to get treatment. Is she able to see this for herself? She did for a couple days last week. Yet this morning she threw her new meds. across the kitchen saying they were not working. She wanted something to take away her appetite - she is fat and ugly -- the doctor lied about the topomax helping her lose weight. She would not listen to "it takes some time".

I am too accepting of her angry outbursts - justify them with her anxiety about going to talk to police officer today. How do I short-circuit my justifying her actions as OK when they are not? This is so FOGGY.

HELP. qcr

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, qcarolr... . It does sound like your D is having a hard time of it, and is blaming everyone but herself for her predicament. It's got to be tearing your heart to bits to have to hear her cries for help and know that the only way to "help" her--by bailing her out--just might not help her at all!     Because, once she's home, everything is the same again, and this possible moment of change for her will pass with no change... .

Sometimes it's the craziest, most unfair, most unexpected things that work together to force someone to get to their "moment of truth" where change becomes the only thing left for them. The circumstances that caused my son to end up in the ER in February 2013, which eventually led to his road to recovery and realization that something had to change in his life, was really almost a "comedy of errors." And, he would be the first to admit that it was so crazy and weird that he ended up where he did that cold and snowy night, that it had to be God intervening in his life at that very moment. He's not religious, but is very spiritual, and knows that it had to be the hand of God that led him to that ER bench, handcuffed there for the 6 tortuous, embarrassing hours that changed his life.

When he called me from the Psych Ward after we got home from our FL trip (Sunday night; he'd been in the Psych Ward at that point for 24 hours), his phone call was heart-wrenching. He wanted us to come and take him home. We wouldn't; we wanted to use this admission as leverage to get him to commit himself to a Dual Diagnosis program, and made him stay another night in order to figure out how to do that. He yelled and raged over the phone about his brother, saying he wanted to "kill him" for putting him in that Psych Ward by calling 911. He was more than furious at him, and said he would never talk to him again, that he was dead to him. I acknowledged that he was upset with his brother and I could understand why, and said I was so sorry that he was "treated like a criminal!" in the ER. But I wouldn't say his brother did the wrong thing; I asked him if maybe God was working through his brother to bring about a change in his life? At that time he couldn't see that, but now he can. And he is now (finally!) speaking to his brother again  

Is your daughter spiritual at all? Can you believe in your heart that God engineered this weird arrest that caught your daughter out of the blue when she least expected it? Would she ever in her life be able to see the hand of God in this jail stay? Would you? Maybe if you look at it this way, you might be able to feel less torn up about not being able to "save" her from this. And maybe you can find a way to validate her feelings, but let her go through this trauma in order to come out the other side of it in a better place... . I wish I had advice as to what to say to her; all I can do is tell you my story... .    

[qcarolr]

Dh said to me tonight - we can be miserable or we can be miserable. This does not change that we are making no decisions for DD today or tomorrow. We will both go to her hearing; if she calls tell her we are making no decisions the day of her hearing. He is wise - I tend to override him when he is gone.

So many are praying for DD, and for our family. I have to surrender to that a stop myself from thinking I know what needs to happen. I do not. I have to get out of the way.

Dh and I did some 'role playing' after dinner. like i was talking to dd on the phone. he said no, that is saying too much. no, that is saying too much. no, that is saying too much.  I think I get it - I need to share her distress at being in jail and then stop.

RR - yes, I do believe. DD claims she does not, yet at times I know the spiritual spark is there. I have to stay our of God's way.

SO - dh had different days off last week when DD melted down so he could be here with gd and I could take dd to mental health crisis staff 2 days in a row. He has a half day tomorrow afternoon so he can go to jail hearing with me. This is first for him -- in past years he has always been at work, or refused to go with me. This is DD's 5th time locked up since she was 17, and dh has maybe gone to one hearing. I am in awe that he is HERE this time.  This is prayer to me.

Yet, it is hard for me to do what i say i need to do.

[Rapt Reader]

So many are praying for DD, and for our family. I have to surrender to that a stop myself from thinking I know what needs to happen. I do not. I have to get out of the way.

Dh and I did some 'role playing' after dinner. like i was talking to dd on the phone. he said no, that is saying too much. no, that is saying too much. no, that is saying too much.  I think I get it - I need to share her distress at being in jail and then stop.

RR - yes, I do believe. DD claims she does not, yet at times I know the spiritual spark is there. I have to stay our of God's way.

Yes. Yes. Yes.   

I think you've got it  

Please sleep as peacefully as possible, qcarolr... . I think God is going to work this out, and all you need to do is let Him do it  

You've come a long way tonight, don't you think? With God and your Husband's help, you will get through this... .     R.R.  

[vivekananda]

qcr, I am late to reply, I am sorry.   Rapt Reader gives good advice.

My advice is to remember to breathe, walk surely on the ground, feel the present moment. When you speak with dd, listen, listen, listen and respond when you have to. Remember you don't have to always have an answer, you can respond without words. Finally, have faith. You have done lots of hard work preparing for this, have faith in yourself, dh and all you have done... . yes step aside and accept this situation.

Cheers,

Vivek      

[lbjnltx]

Try to see the value in each opportunity, each painful moment in your life and your dd's life, has meaning.  It may be cumulative, it may be a catalyst, it may be a turning point.  What ever it is... . it was designed with a purpose.

Keep the faith.  Let Him work through you, not around you.