Apparently I blew my chance to be supportive?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Last night uBPDh and I were having a very civil conversation, drinking a beer and enjoying each other's company.  This all turned south very quickly when he brought up his frustrations with his pick up situation. 

Quick synopsis of pick up situation: We bought it about four years ago and it's been nothing but trouble since we drove it off the lot.  It was a source of contention between us before we even bought it.  It hasn't been running for about two months, during this time h has made no attempt to fix it or get it to mechanic.  He also needs this truck for his work and had to rent several trucks, which with that money he could have probably paid for repairs on his own truck.  We have talked about how to fix this situation, his lemon of a truck.  He also has a small car he drives to and from work which he puts about 80 miles a day on.  We have had conversations about this probably a 100 times in the last year and a half or so.  I mostly listen, rarely offer any suggestion or my opinion, because I think he needs to decide what to do for himself.  After all, if I say something and it turns out badly, like the truck, I will forever hold the blame. There is no good solution for this problem, all have drawbacks, and the worst is we really don't have money to do anything right now.  On top of that, his work situation could turn at any time and is not reliable right at the moment.

Back to last night, he starts the conversation off with telling me how frustrated he is with the truck situation.  Then he starts talking about how tempted he is to just go trade it and his car.  After a few minutes I say, well you need to fix your truck.  Meaning regardless of what you decide, you need to fix the truck to trade it or sell it.  Right after I say this, he fires off with a "you don't care, you just care about yourself" comment.  It was a personal attack when what I had said was simply stating a fact that he even agreed with.  Then shortly after he slammed me again with two personal attacks.  I called him on those and then he said he was justified because I was attacking him.  I literally only made the comment about needing the truck to be fixed and then that if he bought another truck to be his only vehicle he would be spending about $200 a week on gas.  How could those be perceived as attacks?  I know it wasn't validating his feelings, but it certainly wasn't an attack.

I tried to smooth things over, but was also upset that he felt like he could just attack me on a personal level like that and not see what he had done and apologize.  He basically said he felt like he laid his heart out to get support from me and I "kicked him".  He said this just proves he can't talk to me and look to me for support!  I apologized for not saying something supportive in the moment, tried to explain that I do care about his frustrations, and that I will support his decision.  But to him, he just kept going on and on about how that was so hurtful for me to not be supportive in the moment.  What?  Finally, after he commented on how hurtful it was for him to open himself up like and for me to not be supportive, I lost all patience and very sarcastically said, "right, I wouldn't know anything about that." 

Now he is  not talking to me.  He probably would have spoken this morning if not for my last comment, but maybe not.  I am so sick of this behavior.  I feel like he wants to play the poor me and the victim.  And I am the wicked witch again.  I know I am not the most validating, probably am invalidating at times, but I have no patience left for the situation and for him getting to do and say the most hurtful things and I do something so minimal and I am the DEVIL! 

Sorry, not sure what I am looking for, maybe just needing to vent and feel reassured that I AM NOT THE DEVIL!

I feel like it's a no win regardless of what I do.  Perhaps if I had had the exact right words in that moment, I could have avoided all of this and validated him and soothed him through his stress about the situation.  But truly, is that my responsibility?  I can't even remember the last time he was emotionally supportive of me.  I don't know if the situation could have ended well regardless of what I had said. 

Now I can look forward to a few days of silent treatment then he will escalate it and say how unhappy he is, etc and that something needs to change.  If I can't or won't defuse that he will say he would leave but we have no money for it etc.  Then he will say let's just co-exist, etc.  This seriously repeats about every two weeks.  How do I get off this crazy train?

[4now]

Last night uBPDh and I were having a very civil conversation, drinking a beer and enjoying each other's company.  This all turned south very quickly when he brought up his frustrations with his pick up situation. 

Quick synopsis of pick up situation: We bought it about four years ago and it's been nothing but trouble since we drove it off the lot.  It was a source of contention between us before we even bought it.  It hasn't been running for about two months, during this time h has made no attempt to fix it or get it to mechanic.  He also needs this truck for his work and had to rent several trucks, which with that money he could have probably paid for repairs on his own truck.  We have talked about how to fix this situation, his lemon of a truck.  He also has a small car he drives to and from work which he puts about 80 miles a day on.  We have had conversations about this probably a 100 times in the last year and a half or so.  I mostly listen, rarely offer any suggestion or my opinion, because I think he needs to decide what to do for himself.  After all, if I say something and it turns out badly, like the truck, I will forever hold the blame. There is no good solution for this problem, all have drawbacks, and the worst is we really don't have money to do anything right now.  On top of that, his work situation could turn at any time and is not reliable right at the moment.

Back to last night, he starts the conversation off with telling me how frustrated he is with the truck situation.  Then he starts talking about how tempted he is to just go trade it and his car.  After a few minutes I say, well you need to fix your truck.  Meaning regardless of what you decide, you need to fix the truck to trade it or sell it.  Right after I say this, he fires off with a "you don't care, you just care about yourself" comment.  It was a personal attack when what I had said was simply stating a fact that he even agreed with.  Then shortly after he slammed me again with two personal attacks.  I called him on those and then he said he was justified because I was attacking him.  I literally only made the comment about needing the truck to be fixed and then that if he bought another truck to be his only vehicle he would be spending about $200 a week on gas.  How could those be perceived as attacks?  I know it wasn't validating his feelings, but it certainly wasn't an attack.

I tried to smooth things over, but was also upset that he felt like he could just attack me on a personal level like that and not see what he had done and apologize.  He basically said he felt like he laid his heart out to get support from me and I "kicked him".  He said this just proves he can't talk to me and look to me for support!  I apologized for not saying something supportive in the moment, tried to explain that I do care about his frustrations, and that I will support his decision.  But to him, he just kept going on and on about how that was so hurtful for me to not be supportive in the moment.  What?  Finally, after he commented on how hurtful it was for him to open himself up like and for me to not be supportive, I lost all patience and very sarcastically said, "right, I wouldn't know anything about that." 

Now he is  not talking to me.  He probably would have spoken this morning if not for my last comment, but maybe not.  I am so sick of this behavior.  I feel like he wants to play the poor me and the victim.  And I am the wicked witch again.  I know I am not the most validating, probably am invalidating at times, but I have no patience left for the situation and for him getting to do and say the most hurtful things and I do something so minimal and I am the DEVIL! 

Sorry, not sure what I am looking for, maybe just needing to vent and feel reassured that I AM NOT THE DEVIL!

I feel like it's a no win regardless of what I do.  Perhaps if I had had the exact right words in that moment, I could have avoided all of this and validated him and soothed him through his stress about the situation.  But truly, is that my responsibility?  I can't even remember the last time he was emotionally supportive of me.  I don't know if the situation could have ended well regardless of what I had said. 

Now I can look forward to a few days of silent treatment then he will escalate it and say how unhappy he is, etc and that something needs to change.  If I can't or won't defuse that he will say he would leave but we have no money for it etc.  Then he will say let's just co-exist, etc.  This seriously repeats about every two weeks.  How do I get off this crazy train?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[4now]

In my attempt to get off the crazy train this morning, I decided to take the high road, even though my ego is all puffed up and I really had to talk myself into doing the right thing. 

I sent him a text saying I don't want to fight, don't want to not speak for days, that we both said things we shouldn't have and that I was sorry for what I said.  I said I do want to be supportive but don't always do it in the right way, but that is my intent. 

Thankfully, he responded in kind and it seems as though things are smoothed over for now. 

Man, it's hard to think in the big picture and take the high road. 

[Chosen]

4now,

I can so relate to what you're saying.  Like you, I'm not the most supportive person and sometimes I can be awfully invalidating, but I am not the Devil either.  I think I actually said the exact same thing as you did a long time ago 

And I think you did well, you didn't apologise for everything, but you accepted that you didn't handle it perfectly. 

Even if you didn't do things well doesn't mean you deserve personal attacks, although when they're dysregulated they need every reason to tell themselves that it's ok to attack you because you're hit and hit_.

I have taken a lot of these attack over the years, and they really hurt me.  But they are now starting to lost the power on me because I know they come from a bad place and refuse to let the words sink in.  I react less to them so he uses them less. 

So fellow crazy train passenger, we're in this together... .  

[shamrock]

You never mentioned what, I think, could be the real reason that he was so touchie about fixing/selling the truck. He is likley feeling bad about the whole truck issue & therefore very defensive

For BPD'S a good attack is the best defence even against their own guilt

When you realise what the issue is (IF the BPD knows ) you can be more supportive

[4now]

Chosen-

Thanks for the support-it's "nice" to know that others go thru similar things and that I am not alone.  It makes it easier not to take it all so personally.  

I think the thing that got me about the personal attacks, while I have experienced a lot, was that it was the second thing out of his mouth.  Really before he knew what my response was and he said it in such a matter of fact way with a very tempered voice.  Like he was just stating a fact or communicating maturely.  It kind of shocked me, although shock probably isn't the right word because what can really shock us, that we could be having such a civil conversation and it wasn't even heated at that point and he still felt the need to outright attack me on a personal level. He truly just doesn't have many communication skills.  

It's been interesting because recently I have been around other couples and the way they communicate blows me away.  In both couples the woman will kind of "nag" the man, not that I think this is ok, and the man just takes it and never gets agitated.  Also, in one case, the woman was wrong about something major and the man didn't even say anything, no big deal. I was completely baffled by all of it.  I mean, if those things happened in my marriage, oh my gosh.  It would be so very, very different.  It really makes me think about how much easier life could be without BPD in my life.  I love my husband, but this life is so filled with conflict and drama.  I crave peace at times.

Shamrock-

I think the reason he is so sensitive about the truck issue is because it has been nothing but trouble since we bought it.  I also think he is frustrated because as our situation now is we can't just buy a new one and fix the problem.  I think he also feels bad on some level that he hasn't done anything about it.  If it were me, or a lot of other people, I would have fixed it and would accept that I can't buy anything new right now.  I would acknowledge my frustrations, but it's only a truck, one he doesn't have to drive all the time, and go about my business.  This is not how he thinks, of course.  He took it all to mean that I don't care if he has problems, that I don't care if he always has a crappy vehicle (which is not true-he has a car that was nice when we bought it), that I just think in me because I have a new van (to drive the family in).  The trouble is, I don't know if I had said something different if it would have turned out any differently.  I think he wanted to displace any guilt and frustration he feels on to me.  This has happened many, many times before.  I really do want to support him in any decision he makes, I just won't make the decision for him which I kind of feel is what he wants.  Then he can blame me when he isn't happy about it down the road.  I will continue to offer support and talk it out with him, but it's hard to draw that line and for them not to feel resentful about it.

[shamrock]

Sounds like you are on the right track, but the train is very easily derailed isn't it

[Not normal]

Dear 4now, i think your hb is my hb's twin brother!

My hb usual cycles around thesevalidants... .

Tries to provoke me that the marriage is over... . i cant soothe him... .

Calls me selfish n can never talk to me as im not listening... .

I changed and no longer what he agreed to marry... .

I always get what i want... .

Marriage is over

Silent treatment

Sex as punishment to me

Normal till the next time... .

Each cycle happens every month... .

And peak cycles will be weekly... .

Im very bad at validating, n if i agree with what he says, he will continue to say mean thing till i break n react poorly... . validating his verdict on what a monster i am... .

So really great job on diffusing his temper... . !... . how is it going for u now?

Did he dust the truck matter under the carpets?

[waverider]

It is so hard when a simple communication is misinterpreted and escalates before you have any chance to clear it up.

In this case it was triggered by you seeming to tell him he still needs to fix the truck, when he was venting he cant be bothered with it and wants to be rid. A simple "do you think you may still need to fix it to trade it in?" might have averted that. Then you put the answer back on him to decide. As it was he felt you pulled the rug from under him and invalidated him.

Try if you can to ask him for answers when you say things as you see them (your opinion/truth), rather than just telling him what you think the truth is. It is a subtle shift in mindset but it adds up to a difference eventually.

Keep practicing SET and think carefully how you present the T part, it is presented as your opinion or possible option from where you see it, try not to phrase it as an overriding fact, as that can invalidate any hard work you put into the S & E part.

[tcevans78]

Wow.  I could have written this exact same post.  Exact. 

[briefcase]

Sometimes in these situations, it might help to stick with pure emotional validation - Yes, that truck sure is frustrating.  And then let the real world impose, well, reality - like the need to actually get it repaired and the financial limitations around buying a new one.  The world will impose consequences that he can't avoid, your role is to provide emotional support/validation for him while he deals with the world as it is.  

He probably knows it needs fixed and that he can't afford a new one right now and isn't really looking for you to point those things out.  He's looking for validation.

Make sense?  

[Chosen]

It's been interesting because recently I have been around other couples and the way they communicate blows me away.  In both couples the woman will kind of "nag" the man, not that I think this is ok, and the man just takes it and never gets agitated.  Also, in one case, the woman was wrong about something major and the man didn't even say anything, no big deal. I was completely baffled by all of it.  I mean, if those things happened in my marriage, oh my gosh.  It would be so very, very different.  It really makes me think about how much easier life could be without BPD in my life.  I love my husband, but this life is so filled with conflict and drama.  I crave peace at times.

A big 2nd to this.  And for me too, I crave stability and peace in my marriage, and I put relationship first.  I envy women who can joke around with their husbands without fearing the consequences, and I wish that when I do something wrong (in his view) I wouldn't get "punished" for them, or at least nagged and lectured.  But I guess my marriage is not going to be like that.

[waverider]

If all else fails just dont bother stating the obvious, especially if the odds of anything happening about it is minimal.

I found life a lot easier once I stopped trying to add reality checks to ill thought out statements and plans, which rarely happened anyway. Like wasting and argument on a hypothetical.

[4now]

 

I am not sure how I missed the last several replies.  Truck is still not repaired.  Granted we haven't really had the money to do anything with it anyway.  

I agree 100% with Briefcase in that the real world will impose consequences and limitations.  Generally, this is my approach.  It used to not be and that caused some huge issues for us.  I would try and tell him what to do, what needed to be done, etc, but eventually I realized that wasn't working.  Then I came to the realization that he is a big boy, he makes the money, the truck is his and he can do what he wants.  The hard part in this situation was that I felt like he was trying to put it back on me to make some sort of decision.  I refused and it made him mad.  

I agree too that pure emotional validation should have been my approach.  I think what happened was I had had 1 beer and just with that my guard was down enough to not see what was heading my way.  

And yes, the wasting an argument on a hypothetical was a realization I only came to recently.  It seems like so much is said by them that will never come to pass, yet I have wasted so much energy worrying about it.  

It's just very, very hard because I am not a "validator" by nature, although it is easier I have noticed with friends and other people.  But with my h it seems so, so hard a lot of the time.  I have also noticed in the past week or so that I have tried to talk to him about something equally important as his "truck situation" and he doesn't even say a word.  Nothing, nada.  I don't even think he was listening.  This just reiterated to me that I am on my own with most things and have to figure them out myself.  On a good day I won't hold this against him, but on a bad day, well I may not be so understanding!

[shamrock]

You said that you could validate others? use them as practice

Often it is not the situation you are validating but the feelings, witch you do not have to aggree with, but acknowlege that he has them& therefore they are valid to him.

Our truck was a sore point with my BPDw & became a no go topic.

Seems you are doing all the work but you cannot change him, or anyone else, but only youself. Work on yourself & other things will improve