First post in undecided

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

For years and years and years I have looked for solutions to my relationship problems.

BACK STORY HERE

I ran out of my house on Wed after my husband threatened me.  I left with him throwing water bottles at my car.

I have stayed in a domestic violence shelter for 2 days... . still believing that things will work out and that enforcement of boundaries would give us a better life.

After picking up all of my stuff off the side of the road last night... . and after hateful message after hateful message... . I finally acknowledged what he wants me to accept which is that our relationship is over.

He's starting to calm down.  Just another cycle.  Hi UNDECIDED BOARD!  

[allibaba]

For years and years and years I have looked for solutions to my relationship problems.

BACK STORY HERE

I ran out of my house on Wed after my husband threatened me.  I left with him throwing water bottles at my car.

I have stayed in a domestic violence shelter for 2 days... . still believing that things will work out and that enforcement of boundaries would give us a better life.

After picking up all of my stuff off the side of the road last night... . and after hateful message after hateful message... . I finally acknowledged what he wants me to accept which is that our relationship is over.

He's starting to calm down.  Just another cycle.  Hi UNDECIDED BOARD!  

[KateCat]

I think you've made all the right moves. 

A month from now things may look very different to him. Now that you've got an attorney in your corner, you can begin to shape your wishlist for a very different relationship than the one you've had in the past.

Is your attorney experienced in high conflict family situations and matters of child welfare? A custody evaluation (possibly with psychological evaluations of both parents) could help ensure everyone's safety . . . and your husband's access to his son.

Have you had a look at the ":)ivorcing" board on this forum? There's much to learn there about crafting safe parenting with a mentally ill parent.

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, allibaba    I've been following your story on the Staying Board, and of course I have no insight as to what you should do now (my own pwBPD is my son, as you might know). But, it seems to me that you have done the best you could in this situation, and you gave it all you could... . I have no doubt that your every word and every move in regards to your husband will be well-thought out and correct... . You have all my prayers for your safety and the safety of your son and dogs    Please keep us up to date... . I so want to know how you are doing and how this turns out for you. You are an inspiration in doing the right thing, no matter what; I admire your tenacity, intelligence, and good heart 

  Rapt Reader

[allibaba]

He's asked me to come home. 

I have told him that that is all I want in the world but told him that we have to stop this cycle.

He says that he has a plan and we can discuss it... . to trust him

I said "I will trust you.  But to be clear - I don't ever want to have to run out of the house frightened again.  And my keys, wallet and car are off limits   " 

We'll see if he will commit to anything or if he wants me back on the same terms as before (response will be no)... . haven't heard anything back.

[momtara]

unfortunately, often we give in too soon.  They are fine for a while and then the cycle starts again.  I can't blame you for doing that.  but this may just happen again.  What can you do to stop it?  Well, you need to make a list of EVERY behavior you don't like, make it clear to him what they are.  Don't tiptoe.  And hopefully get into regular couples counseling with someone decent, so someone else is watching.  (not passive.)  Good luck!

[allibaba]

I told him that if his plan involves me 'trying harder' then I'm outta there.

I'm not tiptoeing and I have no desire to go to couples counselling.  I've been working on myself... . now he needs to work on himself.

I have also let his brother and father know what's going and and his brother (who is a serious law enforcement man) seemed really genuinely pleased to finally have a clue what is wrong with his brother.

[Grey Kitty]

  Stay strong! I'm so glad you are at peace with your own choices here.

I'm hoping for the very best for you and your son. It is time for your H to do some taking care of himself.

I don't think that couples therapy is a good choice right now.

One last ditch effort might be Therapeutic Separation but not until he gets over this episode.

I'm thinking that you might want to do some reading of the lessons and perhaps post another hello on the Legal board... . you have custody of your son to consider plus the dogs, and understanding how that process works will make a big difference.

Hang in there! I know this has to be incredibly tough for you!

 GK

[orderline]

Thank you alibaba for writing

I really feel all your situation.

The flavour of your situation is so typic. We try to have a relationship, familly, projects and dreams with persons that occasionally destroy it all. Sometimes they are normal and fantastic and sometimes they are the most evil and dangerous beings.

Everything you value may be used to control you and the abuser is unable to see or prevent the damage and degradation. It just gets destroyed.

Since the BPD abuser is in so much pain and panic and in primitive selfish thinking they are not open to adult reasoning. A forcefull retaliation like being overpowered by police or similar will make their world look even more threatening and the will remember being owerpowered and use it later to trust you even less.

Once you are safe your powers will return. Please keep safe and smart. Do not let him decide when he is ready for you. Miracles happen but they are to few to match the number of BPD sufferers. Real change in impulse control and how we think is hard and work not made at home reading a book.

And I can assure you. Mental illness is not cured by seing the damage he has made or regreting and wanting you back. He will finally return from his abusive and violent mode to something less abusive until triggered again.

Best I found to do is reduce the triggering stress and not to put too many eggs in the basket.

You are great.

I will use your story to be great and free as well.

[patientandclear]

[essentially the same post as the one I made on your Staying thread]

Allibaba -- I am now relating so profoundly to your situation.  These dynamics are so like the ones I confronted in my former marriage (not with the BPD man who caused me to find this site).

The escalating list of threats (mostly empty, some not) designed to prevent me from enforcing boundaries.  The cruel things said that I thought I could discount -- obviously, he didn't believe them, he just was looking for ammunition -- and later found did so much deep damage that it set me up nicely to lose my grip entirely when being courted by a BPD man who told me I was amazing.

Reading your latest points, I just want to say -- this is the moment of the second bus.  (Other readers, this is a reference to a discussion on an earlier thread.)  This is where he tells you he needs you back.  That he's got a plan.  That he'll stop being hurtful and destructive.

It is really just the next step on the manipulation ladder.  Throwing your stuff out, threatening your dogs, saying he'd pick up your son -- that didn't work.  So now he's trying something he thinks might work.  But that's not because he's decided those other things he did were wrong, and it's not because he won't resort to them again.

If you get on the second bus -- if you hold out for real change -- there is some chance that he will actually take it on himself to examine some stuff that is really worth examining.

If you don't -- if you just go back and draw momentary solace from the fact that he's no longer attacking you -- I'd guess there is very little chance of real change.  In fact, he will have learned that making you utterly miserable and attacking you, and then being somewhat regretful, will lead you ... . back into his arms and his life.

You've worked hard to meaningfully defend the values that really matter to you.  Of course -- of course! -- he is going to switch to asking you to come back. The other path wasn't going so well.  This part is so much harder, when he's being warm and welcoming.  This is truly where I was when I didn't get on the second bus.

As you know, my relationship with my exH only got better (and we are genuinely friends now) when I finally did not go back.  It took a couple of years after that to turn around.  No, he doesn't have BPD, but he has some kind of PD and was astonishingly comfortable blaming me for all the disappointments in his life.  I had to be well, well clear for it to become evident to him that I was not the cause.

love

P&C

[waverider]

Whatever you do from here I would suggest you take a breather and let things settle to get a better feel as to were this is going and also to let him know the seriousness of what just occurred. This was not just a bit of a tiff

[allibaba]

Thanks guys.  He knows that its not a tiff.  I'm serious as a heart attack on this one.  Its because I want my relationship to work.  If its going to work then I will have to stand very strong.  The great thing is that I now have the abuse shelter staff as real resources in addition to BPD family!

My husband and I have talked a few times and I have told him that we WILL NOT continue to live like this.  He told me that he has a plan and to trust him.  Basically that plan was that we both try harder.  I said NOPE PAL, NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  Time to find a new plan.

It really doesn't matter whether he believes me or not.  I hold this control.  I now have a revised safety plan.  It includes a car key hidden in our shed (I went home last night to talk with him), a bag of clothing and stuff for the baby at a friend's house, and a house key for my friend's house.

My mom arrives tomorrow and I look forward to having her in my corner.

[allibaba]

Is your attorney experienced in high conflict family situations and matters of child welfare? A custody evaluation (possibly with psychological evaluations of both parents) could help ensure everyone's safety . . . and your husband's access to his son.

Yes, she is.  Unfortunately or fortunately I also have a great deal of experience in this area as I did a lot of the footwork in my husband's custody battle with his NPD ex wife (they had been divorced for years before I met him but she decided to go for full custody after she got remarried).  We did get a full psych workup and would you believe that she's off the charts crazy compared to hubby (those poor kids).  I also submitted myself to an eval and (fortunately other the expected bits of co-dependency)... . I did not register any issues.  PHEW.

[Grey Kitty]

My husband and I have talked a few times and I have told him that we WILL NOT continue to live like this.  He told me that he has a plan and to trust him.  Basically that plan was that we both try harder.  I said NOPE PAL, NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  Time to find a new plan.

Yes. He stepped over a line, seriously. As you said, it wasn't a tiff.

I had a more detailed version of "Not good enough" whenever working on "our stuff" or me working on my stuff came up:

This was abusive behavior. As the person who did that, you have to deal with that issue before you can even talk about my side of things. I'm not saying that I won't work on anything. Just that in an abusive situation I will not be talking to you about my issues.

Abusive behavior is all about control, and you don't hand that back to the person who is being abusive. (I never said this part out loud to my wife)

Do you have a plan/schedule for moving back in with him?

[allibaba]

This was abusive behavior. As the person who did that, you have to deal with that issue before you can even talk about my side of things. I'm not saying that I won't work on anything. Just that in an abusive situation I will not be talking to you about my issues.

Oh this is good stuff... . I like it.

Not a clue GreyKitty... . I just know that as of today... . he doesn't have a good plan.  

[allibaba]

He doesn't have a plan.  His plan is to once again explain why I don't care about him enough, do enough for him, and how he feels misunderstood by me.

I am back in the house today as my mom arrives today.  He completely lost it with me that my mom is coming (somehow forgot the 47 conversations we have had about her arrival the day before the public holiday).  Says that this just proves that I don't care about him.  Last night he suggested that we meet with an attorney together and draw up a divorce.  I don't disagree but know that things will turn wildly over and over before anything settles.

I need to get him out of this house.  He disconnected both of the garage doors and blocked the side garage door with a generator to block me getting back in yesterday even though he asked me to come.  He knows that my key doesn't work in the front door.  I had to fight like hell to get in the house while he was out.  Then this morning I got lectured that I was too lazy to reconnect the garage doors (man I don't even know how and if I did I wouldn't want to do it).  Everyone that I have confided in (his dad, his brother, his cousin, my mom, my friend and the advisers at the domestic violence center) has said that its time to remove the safety net, get him out of the house and let him hit bottom.  He dad wanted me to call the police and get a restraining order based on the behavior that he has seen towards me.  This is a serious statement considering that his dad gets along with him well.

My mom wants me to get him out of the house while she is here.  So tired.  Can't believe that we have gotten to this point. 

[patientandclear]

He doesn't have a lot of relationship skills   & would need to do considerable work to acquire them -- that's what you're up against.  Meanwhile -- that's some amazing support from your real-life network including his dad.

This is a longer-term situation now I think -- it will take quite a while to know how it is all going to shake out.  Again, he lacks to skills to undertake the necessary repairs right now, it would appear.

 

[arabella]

He doesn't have a plan. 

... .

I need to get him out of this house. 

... .

Everyone that I have confided in (his dad, his brother, his cousin, my mom, my friend and the advisers at the domestic violence center) has said that its time to remove the safety net, get him out of the house and let him hit bottom. He dad wanted me to call the police and get a restraining order based on the behavior that he has seen towards me.  This is a serious statement considering that his dad gets along with him well.

My mom wants me to get him out of the house while she is here.

No wonder you're exhausted! This is some MAJOR upheaval - both physically and emotionally.

So it's pretty much decided that he needs to leave. This is not something to wait on. The more connected it is to his behaviour the more chance you have that he'll actually reflect on it. And the higher the chances that you'll be able to stick to your guns! More than one person has suggested to you that someone needs to be there when he is asked to leave. Do you think you would feel better if he left while your mom was going to be with you for the transition? Have you already spoken to your lawyer and/or shelter staff regarding what will be legally necessary to keep him out of the house?

Hang in there allibaba - you are doing the right thing for you and your son (and for your H too)!

[Grey Kitty]

Allibaba, you do sound exhausted... . no surprise there. You are having to be incredibly strong.   

But something you said and something Arabella said caught my eye. Maybe it is significant. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. You decide:

He doesn't have a plan. 

... .

I need to get him out of this house. 

No wonder you're exhausted! This is some MAJOR upheaval - both physically and emotionally.

So it's pretty much decided that he needs to leave. This is not something to wait on.

In all this discussion of getting him out of the house... . I'm seeing passive statements that don't claim responsibility for clear actions.

I'm wondering if you have really decided that it is time to force him to leave the house.

This is another boundary enforcement issue, and being half-way-certain-wishy-washy about it isn't going to get the job done, and may not be safe for you.

If you have decided to do it now, then do it.

If you have decided to wait for a later date or event, when will you do it and why.

 GK

[123Phoebe]

He dad wanted me to call the police and get a restraining order based on the behavior that he has seen towards me.  This is a serious statement considering that his dad gets along with him well.

Allibaba, this is such a blech yucky terrible situation to be in and you have all of our support.  Know that we're here in your corner, along with a lot of other people in your inner circle.  

It's not really a matter of it being a serious statement because 'his dad gets along with him well', it's a matter of safety and doing what's right for everyone involved.

Your husband needs help.  So do you and your son.  You all need to feel and be safe.  Your husband can't be counted on to make this happen :'(  He's blocked the door, disconnected the openers and isn't owning up to squat.  You're back home with him when the crisis is far from over.

I understand that your son is just a little guy, but he's not too little to be affected by so much conflict.  Right now he's developing survival mechanisms when he's too young to even formulate the thoughts behind them.  

You have a child, dogs and responsibilities to your loved ones.  You're married to an abusive man that is on a rampage, willing to destroy all that is important to feed something inside of himself that even he's probably not fully conscious of.  

Please protect your family, allibaba.

Grey Kitty asks a good question:  If you have decided to wait for a later date or event, when will you do it and why?

What is your line in the sand?  Not to necessarily divorce... .  But to feel safe?  How much more are you willing to tolerate?

My dad had schizophrenia and when he went off his meds, look out!  With all the issues I've had with my mom through the years (uBPD like yours), one thing that really stands out to the good, is that she shuffled him out of the house so fast and had him committed for the safety of her family, him included.  It took great strength on her part, but she did it!  More than once.  And I really look up to her for that.  Once he was in a safe place himself, the rest of us could heal and get through the crisis.  Get back to some sort of normalcy.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to please take this seriously.  This is much more than a tantrum, or BPD/NPD at play... .  It's not even about a label at all.  It's that his behavior is very disturbing and nobody knows what he might be capable of doing, not even himself.  

Protect your family

[allibaba]

I hate all of this.  I want to be on the staying board.  I don't want to be on the brink of divorce.

I guess even though my head is wrapped around the fact that the behavior isn't ok... . I wasn't prepared for such a major upheaval.

Every thing I do is a nightmare... . fortunately my mom is now here.

My heart isn't in this... . I know the safety issues and I'll do whatever it takes to keep us safe... . but how did things flip?  All of a sudden he hates me and it doesnt seem like this attitude will be going away any time soon.  I'm completely broken hearted

He basically told our friends today that he hates me and I am a nightmare (in public!)... . my friend who had no idea... . walked me to the car... . just to say ' honey he's nuts.  Not you... . in case you wondered'

[123Phoebe]

but how did things flip?  All of a sudden he hates me and it doesnt seem like this attitude will be going away any time soon.  I'm completely broken hearted

No time to be broken hearted.  Things flipped because he's in the midst of a FLIP OUT!  And they'll flip back the other way at some point in time.  Then back again to this or worse. 

This has to be stopped in its tracks.  No more. 

[GreenMango]

 On a positive spin you are in a very good position regarding the family support.  It says a lot when the whole family is a united cohesive front against enabling.  This will upset him but this isn't a punishment its people who care looking to do the long run healthy choice.

This isn't to say he isn't going to buck it, lash out in public, or be a runner for awhile.  He may.  The threats of divorce may actually materialize, but you have a solid base with your clarity and boundaries, and the support of a family.

One of the keys to successful treatment is a supportive family.  This may be his bottom.  I'd be tempted to diplomatically nuture this approach and to come up with your terms.

I'm not really surprised by his solution - a person with BPD doesn't have these higher level skills when in duress.  Sometimes you need to spell it out real clearly.

Keep talking to your therapist, the dv counselor, lawyer, family etc. - sometimes creating a better situation is not handling everything yourself and knowing everything to do, sometimes its the experts and support around you.

You are a strong lady.

[waverider]

Use those around you to stay grounded, and keep physical space between you both for the immediate future.

[Grey Kitty]

   I hate to sound like a hardass, but safety first, broken heart second.

Either get him out of the house, or get you, your son, and the dogs out.

Then move on toward feeling the heartbreak and working on next steps, whatever direction they go.

 GK