New situation

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

BACKSTORY:

Over the last 3-6 months I have really changed the way that I was doing things with my husband.  Stopped allowing him to treat me a certain way.  Initially we had the best relationship of our ten years together.  The novelty must have worn off though because a few weeks ago he became violent with me.  Its not the first time that it has happened in our relationship that he has become physical but I honestly thought that we had gotten past all of that craziness.

So a week ago Wednesday he came home in a rage - he started calling me names and cursing me.  I had our toddler in my arms.  Calmly I told him that the behavior was not acceptable and that I was walking away.  He screamed that he would take my keys, wallets and my phone and that I would be stuck outside with nothing (we live in the middle of nowhere).  He locked me out and left the house and took the car and all my stuff but came back about a half hour later.  I had a spare key and snuck into the garage with our son and headed to the local domestic violence shelter for a few days.  He told me that he had a plan to sort out of situation and a few days later when he calmed down... . I came home (that was the plan all along).

Anyway over the last days the specific verbal threats have happened again and I have told him get out or get help.  He says that all of our issues are because I don't care enough or do enough for him.  I work full time and support our family.  I do 90% of the housework and gardening, cooking etc.  I do all the primary care for our son (yes he goes to daycare) but make all the arrangements/ appts/ decisions.  Take care of our dogs.  My husband works a minimum wage job (which he quit yesterday).  He has a history of drugs and failed relationships.  This is my first go.

He thinks that he is going to kick me out of the house.  He's actually put my stuff at the end of the driveway already.  I have spoken to the local police and if he does it again they will come out and have a calm chat with him.

We live in Ontario and my current legal plan is as follows:

I have an appt with a lawyer on Wed.

The OPP recommended based on some of the things that they have seen that I apply for an order of exclusion possession of the house based on the abuse.

I am very fortunate that I have financial resources in addition to regular income and I can buy my husband out of the house (also giving him financial resources).  I couldn't give him what he is asking for... . but I could get very close to fair.

I do not want child support. He doesn't make enough money and I don't want him holding it over my head.

He's a good father despite all his mental health issues and I don't have any issue sharing custody (though his family and my friends have recommended that I apply for sole custody - because he's prone to mental issues and occasionally get delusional) and then allow him to see as much of our son as I want.  He's a good dad and I don't want to get in the middle of that relationship.  He's never shown any aggression toward him or his daughters from a previous marriage.

I still just want my husband to get help.  We have a lot in common, lots of history and he's my best friend but he has me completely backed into a corner.  The therapist that I have been seeing saying that he is acting like a FULL BLOWN NARCISSIST and seeking therapy won't help.  He said that based on the things he's doing, the only thing that might help is inpatient treatment for at least a month.

His family seems to think that he is doing hard drugs again and that is why he's having a meltdown

Sorry for the long post.  Someone on the other boards recommended that I post here to make sure that I have my bases covered before I meet with the lawyer.

My mom is here right now and he's backed down from the rage.  Its unlikely that my husband would ever really hurt me unless he was provoked during a rage and I always ensure that I exit.  The police are aware of what's going on and assured me that they would be here VERY quickly if I need them. 

[allibaba]

BACKSTORY:

Over the last 3-6 months I have really changed the way that I was doing things with my husband.  Stopped allowing him to treat me a certain way.  Initially we had the best relationship of our ten years together.  The novelty must have worn off though because a few weeks ago he became violent with me.  Its not the first time that it has happened in our relationship that he has become physical but I honestly thought that we had gotten past all of that craziness.

So a week ago Wednesday he came home in a rage - he started calling me names and cursing me.  I had our toddler in my arms.  Calmly I told him that the behavior was not acceptable and that I was walking away.  He screamed that he would take my keys, wallets and my phone and that I would be stuck outside with nothing (we live in the middle of nowhere).  He locked me out and left the house and took the car and all my stuff but came back about a half hour later.  I had a spare key and snuck into the garage with our son and headed to the local domestic violence shelter for a few days.  He told me that he had a plan to sort out of situation and a few days later when he calmed down... . I came home (that was the plan all along).

Anyway over the last days the specific verbal threats have happened again and I have told him get out or get help.  He says that all of our issues are because I don't care enough or do enough for him.  I work full time and support our family.  I do 90% of the housework and gardening, cooking etc.  I do all the primary care for our son (yes he goes to daycare) but make all the arrangements/ appts/ decisions.  Take care of our dogs.  My husband works a minimum wage job (which he quit yesterday).  He has a history of drugs and failed relationships.  This is my first go.

He thinks that he is going to kick me out of the house.  He's actually put my stuff at the end of the driveway already.  I have spoken to the local police and if he does it again they will come out and have a calm chat with him.

We live in Ontario and my current legal plan is as follows:

I have an appt with a lawyer on Wed.

The OPP recommended based on some of the things that they have seen that I apply for an order of exclusion possession of the house based on the abuse.

I am very fortunate that I have financial resources in addition to regular income and I can buy my husband out of the house (also giving him financial resources).  I couldn't give him what he is asking for... . but I could get very close to fair.

I do not want child support. He doesn't make enough money and I don't want him holding it over my head.

He's a good father despite all his mental health issues and I don't have any issue sharing custody (though his family and my friends have recommended that I apply for sole custody - because he's prone to mental issues and occasionally get delusional) and then allow him to see as much of our son as I want.  He's a good dad and I don't want to get in the middle of that relationship.  He's never shown any aggression toward him or his daughters from a previous marriage.

I still just want my husband to get help.  We have a lot in common, lots of history and he's my best friend but he has me completely backed into a corner.  The therapist that I have been seeing saying that he is acting like a FULL BLOWN NARCISSIST and seeking therapy won't help.  He said that based on the things he's doing, the only thing that might help is inpatient treatment for at least a month.

His family seems to think that he is doing hard drugs again and that is why he's having a meltdown

Sorry for the long post.  Someone on the other boards recommended that I post here to make sure that I have my bases covered before I meet with the lawyer.

My mom is here right now and he's backed down from the rage.  Its unlikely that my husband would ever really hurt me unless he was provoked during a rage and I always ensure that I exit.  The police are aware of what's going on and assured me that they would be here VERY quickly if I need them. 

[ForeverDad]

The OPP recommended based on some of the things that they have seen that I apply for an order of exclusive possession of the house based on the abuse.  Good, do that.

when he calmed down... . I came home (that was the plan all along)  Good, as far as it goes, let's see if he gets the not-so-subtle hint.

Anyway over the last days the specific verbal threats have happened again and I have told him get out or get help.  This was almost to be expected, he's either testing your boundary or he's trying to reassert control/demands - or both. Boundary is good.  (As we sometimes say, once things have escalated to exposing actions outside the privacy of closed doors, the conflict often rises to a higher level.  A reasonably normal person would think, Oh no what did I do! and try to make real changes.  A pwBPD will often shift blame and try to regain dominance.)

He says that all of our issues are because I don't care enough or do enough for him.  I work full time and support our family.  I do 90% of the housework and gardening, cooking etc.  I do all the primary care for our son (yes he goes to daycare) but make all the arrangements/ appts/ decisions.  Take care of our dogs.  My husband works a minimum wage job (which he quit yesterday).  He has a history of drugs and failed relationships.  Typical blame-shifting and blaming.  Be like a duck in the rain and let it roll off you with minimal effect.

And he quit yesterday?  Is he angling for spousal support or alimony during/after a divorce?  Unless you've been married for many years, such as over 10 years, anything more than short term support is unlikely.  A 4-5 year marriage with a spouse capable of good income does not quality for support most likely.  (Your lawyer will try to get his income 'imputed' at what he CAN earn.  You shouldn't have to support a misbehaving whatever.

I am very fortunate that I have financial resources in addition to regular income and I can buy my husband out of the house (also giving him financial resources).  I couldn't give him what he is asking for... . but I could get very close to fair.  Sounds like he was in the marriage for the money?  PwBPD are often messed up but they sure know the meaning of $$$.  Get a good lawyer, your lawyer will say the finances are standard, no need to be nice or fair.  Besides, he won't appreciate your efforts to be nice and fair.  (In my case I have paid my ex significant house equity, retirement funds, child support or alimony ever since I filed for divorce and she still views me as the worst person on earth - unless she's in front of a professional and then she puts on a nice face.)

I do not want child support. He doesn't make enough money and I don't want him holding it over my head. Let the courts have a chance to decide that.  Beside, he could earn more if he decided to.  (I wonder, when did he start losing income?  Was it after you two met?  Could it be your income enabled him to slide by more and more?

He's a good father despite all his mental health issues and I don't have any issue sharing custody (though his family and my friends have recommended that I apply for sole custody - because he's prone to mental issues and occasionally get delusional) and then allow him to see as much of our son as I want.  He's a good dad and I don't want to get in the middle of that relationship.  He's never shown any aggression toward him or his daughters from a previous marriage.  But what is best for your child?  Maybe now he is okay with some parenting, you're there to take the brunt of his rants, rages and whatnot, you're his focus and not the toddler.  What happens when your son is older and seek a larger measure of independence and age-appropriate decision making?  What about later if you're not there most of the time?  Even if he doesn't outright abuse, his example is not a healthy, well-rounded one.  However, I like the point that if you have firm control of parenting then you can let him have additional time when appropriate.  I say, listen to the others, they're looking at things objectively not subjectively.

And beware of calling him a good father.  Likely your lawyer will tell you you can't say that and ask for sole custody or the maximum possible.  Remember, think, good father... . does your child see him ranting at you, raging at you, throwing his fist through walls, etc?  Than that is NOT a good father.  Those are poor examples of behavior that your son should NOT be exposed to or learn.  (If a child sees DV or conflict in the home then it is more likely for that child to grow up and seek out relationships where one or the other also does the same.)  Yes, family court may say he can still have parenting time - generally that is determined somewhat separately from custody.  But please don't sabotage your own case.  That is a real possibility, so beware.

My mom is here right now and he's backed down from the rage.  For you to need outside help to be around his says a lot.  You can no longer trust him, not as spouses and lovers ought to.

I still just want my husband to get help.  You can't make him get help.  Even if you could, you can't make him apply it and change his core behaviors.  That is something only he alone can do.  You can support him if he tries to make real changes, but you can't fix him.

A truism I often state is that unless a pwBPD (or any other acting-out PD) gets into serious and meaningful therapy, then change for the better is very unlikely.  You can't do it because all his perceptions of you are colored by his perception of you, the history and the emotional baggage surrounding you.  That is why a trained and experienced professional, emotionally neutral, is required.  So your future decisions depend upon whether he changes or not.  Sadly, any signs of claimed improvement will also have to meet the test of time, years, you already know how he can cycle from bad to good and back to bad again as easily as putting on and taking off a coat.  Meanwhile, you have to make decisions based on the hear and now reality, not hopes, not dreams.

If he's in control, you know in your heart how that will end, more and more of what's happening now.  Since you can't live his life for him, you have to live your own life based on the facts at hand.  Take care of yourself and take care of your child.

[livednlearned]

Initially we had the best relationship of our ten years together.  The novelty must have worn off though because a few weeks ago he became violent with me.  Its not the first time that it has happened in our relationship that he has become physical but I honestly thought that we had gotten past all of that craziness.

I left a similar type of abusive relationship. My ex was not physically abusive until the end. I thought the first 6-7 years of my marriage were really good, until I left and got into therapy and realized it was good because I gave him so much control over me. Looking back, it wasn't good. It just wasn't scary. I'm mentioning this because you are about to make some of the biggest decisions of your life, with longterm effects on your child. It's a good idea to check your thinking with people who have been there, done that. Have you read Why Does He Do That? Inside the Lives of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft? It's one of the most helpful books for women dealing with DV.

Anyway over the last days the specific verbal threats have happened again and I have told him get out or get help.  He says that all of our issues are because I don't care enough or do enough for him.  I work full time and support our family.  I do 90% of the housework and gardening, cooking etc.  I do all the primary care for our son (yes he goes to daycare) but make all the arrangements/ appts/ decisions.  Take care of our dogs.  My husband works a minimum wage job (which he quit yesterday).  He has a history of drugs and failed relationships.  This is my first go.

Read Lundy Bancroft -- it will help you understand how your husband is thinking, and why he is doing what he's doing. Don't hang his behavior entirely on the mental illness or drug abuse. Your husband is abusive, period. You are standing up to him, and he is pulling rank. It will get worse. Make sure you have a plan in place -- an extra set of keys hidden outside, both to the house and to your car. Get a storage locker and put anything in it that is important to you, especially nostalgic items. There is a good chance your ex will destroy them in a rage. I put all of my son's memorabilia and my documents in a locker, with clothing and anything I might need if I had to leave suddenly. Which happened, by the way. My ex did the same thing yours did -- locked me out of the house, took my purse and car keys. It's classic abuse. My ex started doing it when I started saying, No. I read Patricia Evans book about putting an end to verbal abuse and it triggered my ex big time.

He thinks that he is going to kick me out of the house.  He's actually put my stuff at the end of the driveway already.  I have spoken to the local police and if he does it again they will come out and have a calm chat with him.

What is your plan for after that conversation? Will you both walk back into the house together? Does he have guns?

He's a good father despite all his mental health issues and I don't have any issue sharing custody (though his family and my friends have recommended that I apply for sole custody - because he's prone to mental issues and occasionally get delusional) and then allow him to see as much of our son as I want. He's a good dad and I don't want to get in the middle of that relationship.  He's never shown any aggression toward him or his daughters from a previous marriage.

An angry, abusive, delusional man prone to violence, who has mental health issues and a history of drug abuse is not what most people would call a good father. Not showing aggression to his kids does not make a good father. Ask for the maximum amount of custody you can get, physical and legal. Once you get through this, your perspective is going to change. The healthier you get, the more likely you will see him clearly.

Been in your shoes.

I still just want my husband to get help.  We have a lot in common, lots of history and he's my best friend but he has me completely backed into a corner.  The therapist that I have been seeing saying that he is acting like a FULL BLOWN NARCISSIST and seeking therapy won't help.  He said that based on the things he's doing, the only thing that might help is inpatient treatment for at least a month.

Narcissism is one of the hardest mental illnesses to treat. If your H has substance abuse issues on top of it, the chances are close to zero that there's much hope for your ex. Focus on you and your child now. Get healthy for the sake of your child.

My mom is here right now and he's backed down from the rage.  Its unlikely that my husband would ever really hurt me unless he was provoked during a rage and I always ensure that I exit.  The police are aware of what's going on and assured me that they would be here VERY quickly if I need them. 

If he's doing hard drugs and is NPD, you can't predict whether he will ever really hurt you. (And I would argue he already has.)

I'm sorry if my tone is so direct. I had all kinds of excuses and caveats for my ex's behavior (and mine). It wasn't until the fire reached my hair that I left, and that was leaving it way, way, way too late. Your husband is at high risk of snapping, and I guarantee you that the strength you're starting to feel is something he can sense. He'll escalate before you know it, and that isn't something you want your child to have a memory of. Or you.

[Grey Kitty]

Allibaba, I'm so sorry that it is coming to this for you now.   

I am very fortunate that I have financial resources in addition to regular income and I can buy my husband out of the house (also giving him financial resources).  I couldn't give him what he is asking for... . but I could get very close to fair.  Sounds like he was in the marriage for the money?  PwBPD are often messed up but they sure know the meaning of $$$.  Get a good lawyer, your lawyer will say the finances are standard, no need to be nice or fair.  Besides, he won't appreciate your efforts to be nice and fair.  (In my case I have paid my ex significant house equity, retirement funds, child support or alimony ever since I filed for divorce and she still views me as the worst person on earth - unless she's in front of a professional and then she puts on a nice face.)

I'm not going to speculate on whether your H was wanting to take financial advantage of you from the start or not, but the rest of this makes sense to me.

Starting out with concessions to him that aren't suggested or required in the legal process in the first phase of negotiations with him sounds like a bad idea: He's not going to see the kindness in it, and may decide that if you gave this much away easily, he'll go for more.

The time for generosity is when he is working on doing something good and you see hope of working things out... . or later in negotiations when it will get the whole mess over with sooner.

 GK

[Matt]

Can you file a motion with the court?

* He should move out immediately and stay away from you and the child.

* Maybe supervised time with the child - supervised by a professional - could be a few hours a week.

* Immediate drug and alcohol testing for both parents.

Most drugs will show up if he has used them recently.  I think alcohol might be out of his system in a day or two, so it's best to have the testing done right away.  Harder drugs probably remain in his system for several days so if he's tested within 24 hours they should show up.  By offering to be tested yourself you make it easier for the court to issue that order;  nobody has to prove anything about the other party since both parents will be tested.

Where I live, there is a place called TASC that does the testing for the court, probation officers, etc.  Probably something similar in any city or big town.

I would suggest - no matter what the drug tests show - that you take a big time-out from the relationship.  Don't think that if he says he's going to get help, the risk is past.  Someone who is violent with his wife needs a lot of help over time to get that under control.  Just going to a counselor a few times won't fix him.

[Forward2free]

Allibaba, I am so sorry you are in this position. Your story sounds a lot like my own, and unfortunately, it did get much worse.

I found this article by Amanda Somberg which can articulate it much better than I... . www.openexchange.org/features/JAS09/somberg.html

Your best bet, indeed your only bet, is to leave. As a therapist, I am not in the practice of telling people the uncomfortable truths they must find out for themselves over time. In this case, I make a pointed and stern exception: get out.

But before you do, you must plan your escape, for the wolf will not take your perceived abandonment lightly. Your first step is to tell someone – a close friend or family member – the truth about your hellish existence with this Jekyll-and-Hyde of a man. In fact, tell several people. You will need their support and more someday.

Second, call your local women's shelter for advice. They have staff on-hand and low-fee attorneys who can discuss your options and give you practical guidance for you and your children. Do not think gaslighting, compulsive lying, and repeated affairs aren't abuse; they are. If he's acting in this manner, he's capable of so much more. You are in danger. Beware.

Third, begin writing everything down that the narcissist or sociopath says or does. This paper trail will come in handy when he starts portraying you as unstable or insane. It is also a method of catching him in his manipulations and lies.

Fourth, make copies of important financial documents, birth certificates, bank statements, deeds, and the like. Narcissists are known for stealing, hiding money, frittering it away, or otherwise financially decimating their mates. Find out where the money is hidden ahead of time so that you are not ruined financially. And set aside an emergency fund of your own should you need immediate access to cash.

Fifth, if you have children, decide whether it would be better to plan your escape when the children are older, say over age 12. Older children are able to assert their own wishes when it comes to custody disputes. If the wolf has already driven a wedge between you and your children, do not give up in despair. Point out the ways they are being manipulated. Catch him in his lies. Learn how to spot his twisting of every interaction, and call him on it each and every time. Moreover, get a backbone and don't knuckle under to his insistence that you are always to blame. Your children get traumatically bonded to their abuser whom they fear; don't allow this to happen on your watch.

Read everything you can get your hands on, especially "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft (a man who's worked with over 2,000 abusive men) and "In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People" by George K. Simon, Jr., Ph.D. In addition, read anything by Patricia Evans ("The Verbally Abusive Relationship," "Controlling People" or Beverly Engel ("The Jekyll-and-Hyde Syndrome," "The Emotionally Abused Woman". Also, search the Internet for Sam Vaknin, Ph.D., an avowed narcissist who wrote his book "Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited" while standing up in a jail cell. He tells the honest and gut-wrenching truth about narcissists and sociopaths and how they think, act, and abuse others.

Start seeing a therapist or mental health professional. You will need support to help you cope with the daunting task of managing your emotions after being duped. If you have been abused emotionally and psychologically, you have been tormented beyond belief. Physical bruises and broken bones are visible to others; the type of secret emotional abuse he's subjected you to is an unending hell. You didn't deserve it, and neither do your children. Go figure out how to stop the cycle so you won't attract and date a wolf again.

If you have the funds, find yourself an attorney. Ask them these three questions to make certain they can spot and effectively deal with malignant narcissists and sociopaths: (1) Do you know what gaslighting is? (2) Do you work with survivors of domestic violence? (3) Do you know how to spot a sociopath? If they answer "no" to any of the questions, or cannot effectively explain to you what "gaslighting" is, find someone else.

I'll jump on after work to give some more information, but I think you really need to listen to what your inner voice is saying to you right now, and I suspect you know that this is not going to get better and you have the best chance now of getting out and being safe. Being in an isolated location makes me feel quite worried for you. Yes, help can arrive, but how quickly?

[allibaba]

I am going to be honest here.

A month ago, I believed that we were really on a great path and that eventually we would have a much happier marriage. 

The last month has been pure hell.  Somehow we got on an emotional elevator which has been free falling to the ground.  Admittedly my husband drove that free fall but that doesn't make it any easier.

Do I really want a divorce? - No.

Do I really feel like I need to put measures in place to protect myself and my son at all costs? - Yes.

I know that my husband operates in pure narcissism when he is under emotional stress.  When he is not stressed he is capable of great empathy.  He does not drive every decision in our house and he is certainly not nasty, aggressive and violent.

I will meet with the lawyer on Wednesday and I will put in place everything I need to ensure our safety.  I plan to give her the every piece of evidence that she would need to file an order for exclusive possession of the house.  I am going to ask her to do the work to prepare it and then keep it on file and wait for my call.  I really do hope that that call never comes.  I have sent the therapist a message to ask for another session. 

My husband did not quit his job.  He bounced out of bed bright and early this morning to go to work.  He did say that doing a laborer job (cutting grass at the golf course) feels horribly demeaning to him and that he needs to find something better.  This is a seasonal job so it will be over soon. 

I have prepared some ground rules that I want to discuss with him as soon as my mom leaves. 

Tomorrow everything may change for the worse again.

Thanks for the recommended reading.  I will buy them on the eReader.

Thanks,

[livednlearned]

Allibaba, I am so sorry you are in this position. Your story sounds a lot like my own, and unfortunately, it did get much worse.

I found this article by Amanda Somberg which can articulate it much better than I... . www.openexchange.org/features/JAS09/somberg.html

Your best bet, indeed your only bet, is to leave. As a therapist, I am not in the practice of telling people the uncomfortable truths they must find out for themselves over time. In this case, I make a pointed and stern exception: get out.

Thanks for posting that, Kormilda. It's brilliant -- I wish I had read it while in my marriage. Everything she says, and every book she recommends minus one -- I read! So glad I did. It gave me exactly what I needed to leave and heal.

[livednlearned]

Do I really want a divorce? - No.

Do I really feel like I need to put measures in place to protect myself and my son at all costs? - Yes.

I love my son more than anyone on this earth. Most mothers feel that way about their children. But there is no way you can protect your son and live with your husband at the same time. If you are in a relationship where you are even thinking about protecting your child from your spouse, you are in an abusive relationship and so is your child. It is not normal to think, "How can I protect my child?" That alone is a screaming red flag that something is terribly, terribly wrong. I don't know you, but I care about you because I walked in your shoes, and I wish someone told me what Kormilda and others are telling you -- get out of the relationship and raise a healthy child. Divorce is better for kids who have BPD relationships. Unfortunately, there is more research about that on BPD mothers than BPD fathers.

The abuse your child feels, witnesses, experiences takes an enormous toll. It becomes clear as day as your child begins to get older -- my son was 8 when it manifested in a critical, alarming way. He had all the indicators for a child "at-risk." At 8! I'm a doting, loving, attentive, capable, involved parent. But I was losing him. The emotional conditions of your home, living with an abuser, are so extremely unhealthy, and your job is not just to protect him from your husband, but to give him the best conditions for a healthy life. The stress, the anxiety, the fear, the distorted thinking, the violence, the narcissism, the inconsistency, the unpredictability, the alleged drug abuse, the anger, watching a grown man treat his wife abusively and occasionally violent --  you would never, ever, ever expose your child to that, but you (and me, and lots of us here) did exactly that because we were, for one reason or another, conditioned to think it was ok. Or it would go away. Or it wasn't all that bad. Or we were strong enough to endure it. Or we could fix it.

You can't. If you can't leave for yourself, leave for your child. It will save his life.

I know that my husband operates in pure narcissism when he is under emotional stress.  When he is not stressed he is capable of great empathy.  He does not drive every decision in our house and he is certainly not nasty, aggressive and violent.

What you have described in your posts contradicts that... . he has been nasty, aggressive, and violent toward you. All people experience stress, but not all people react in the way you have described.

[ForeverDad]

I didn't want a divorce either.  Nearly all of us didn't.  It's almost like the other persons chose people who wouldn't jump at the first sign of red flags but kept trying and trying endlessly.  Of those who arrived here at bpdfamily.com the conflict has risen to the point where comparatively few can be Stayers for very long.  Yes you tried, you did try Staying, or as I phrase it, Staying For Now (while seeing what if anything might work).

If the other person doesn't improve behaviors significantly, generally by seeking intensive therapy with an experienced professional, then it's up to you to take appropriate action, especially if you also have children.  Yes, you'll likely get blamed, accused, black-listed, cast as the problem person, etc but you know in your heart you really did try before accepting the reality of a dysfunctional spouse and a dysfunctional, unhealthy relationship.

Maybe your spouse will respond someday in the future - let's hope so - or not.  However, that's up to him to do it and to prove it long term.  Meanwhile you have to act on the facts at hand.  Promises without substance are worse than worthless and not to be trusted.

One final note... . it sounds likely you're pending a decision right now, almost but not quite, just preparing for one more trigger/incident.  If and when you do decide the marriage can't be salvaged, then that's the time to stop being informative and sharing of information.  A divorce-in-progress is no time to be divulging information, strategies, etc.  You no longer need to feel you have to answer demands and interrogations.  To do so could be self-sabotaging to your case.  Yes, you need to share information on parenting and exchanges - in a written form as much as possible for documentation and to keep emotions out of it - but anything else has to be reviewed for whether actually needed.  View a divorce as forcing you to treat nearly everything as business details, do it businesslike, emotional input or response will make it harder to manage.  You won't get closure from a seriously disordered person, you'll have to gift that to yourself.

[livednlearned]

One final note... . it sounds likely you're pending a decision right now, almost but not quite just preparing for one more trigger.  If and when you do decide the marriage can't be salvaged, then that's the time to stop being informative and sharing of information. 

That is very important advice -- do not tip your hand. At all. You will have the floor ripped out from underneath you faster than you can imagine.

[allibaba]

I didn't want a divorce either.  Nearly all of us didn't.  It's almost like the other persons chose people who wouldn't jump at the first sign of red flags but kept trying and trying endlessly.  Of those who arrived here at bpdfamily.com the conflict has risen to the point where comparatively few can be Stayers for very long.  Yes you tried, you did try Staying, or as I phrase it, Staying For Now (while seeing what if anything might work).

I like this very much.  I continue to do what I believe is "the right thing" even though my heart isn't in it.  I finally spoke with a lawyer on the phone yesterday that I felt comfortable with (its been difficult to find one).  I am meeting with her today and if it goes well I am going to ask her to please draw up all documentation and paperwork for the order so that if my husband loses it again... . I am prepared.

If the other person doesn't improve behaviors significantly, generally by seeking intensive therapy with an experienced professional, then it's up to you to take appropriate action, especially if you also have children.  Yes, you'll likely get blamed, accused, black-listed, cast as the problem person, etc but you know in your heart you really did try before accepting the reality of a dysfunctional spouse and a dysfunctional, unhealthy relationship.

I really am trying.  Enforcing proper boundaries for the sake of proper boundaries.  I enabled him so badly for the first 6 yrs of our relationship and its only in the last 2 yrs that I realized that I am part of the problem.  That doesn't mean that I can fix him or our relationship but at least if I have to walk I know in the bottom of my heart that I did everything that I could.

If and when you do decide the marriage can't be salvaged, then that's the time to stop being informative and sharing of information.  A divorce-in-progress is no time to be divulging information, strategies, etc.  You no longer need to feel you have to answer demands and interrogations.  To do so could be self-sabotaging to your case.  Yes, you need to share information on parenting and exchanges - in a written form as much as possible for documentation and to keep emotions out of it - but anything else has to be reviewed for whether actually needed.  View a divorce as forcing you to treat nearly everything as business details, do it businesslike, emotional input or response will make it harder to manage. 

Unfortunately I am very business minded (one of the things that truly drives my husband nuts)... . so I stopped being informative and sharing information a while ago (also one of the things that drives my husband nuts).  I don't respond to interrogations much anymore.  He hates it because he knows that he has lots some control. 

But thanks for the heads up.  If he had the slightest notion that I might consider meeting with a lawyer, he'd lose it.  Sadly the only reason I am doing it is because I can't live a life where my spouse threatens me with divorce everytime he doesn't get enough sleep... . and refusing to listen to verbal abuse ends up with my stuff in trash bags at the end of the driveway   The lawyer I spoke to said that what I am doing is what any loving, rational spouse would do under the circumstances to protect their child. 

[Forward2free]

I fought for my marriage for 5 years as BPD/Nxh became a stranger. I thought he'd keep coming back and want to fight with me, but he turned against me and as the months went by, my standards dropped and a shove turned into a slap and then a full punch while I was holding my son, full stalking, property damage, interfering with my workplace, friends and family etc etc etc.

I finally got the message and after saying no to his pressured divorce for 2 years, I had the papers drawn up and we signed them together at the police station. The next day he threatened to kill me, my kids, my parents and my sisters and I knew that he would. It was not an attention seeking threat.

I went into lockdown and he broke into our house where he hadn't lived for over 12 months, did A$79,000 damage to house and contents, and waited for me to get home. I found him lying face down in a pool of red wine that looked enough like blood to me and my dad. Then I saw his eyes flicker and a kitchen knife in his hand. He jumped up and fled out of the back of the house.

I ran out of the house screaming, calling my dad to leave and calling the police.

That was my sign. I always gave him the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't really hurt me or the kids and it was me over exaggerating the seriousness.

I can write to you today because I stood up for my kids and said no more drama, but I nearly didn't survive my strongest move with the divorce papers. BPD/Nxh knew I had stopped being his dormat and he was going to kill me.

Please go to a safe house. Possessions and houses can be replaced. People can't. I agree with the others that you wouldn't be here on this site if you were not aware of the seriousness of your situation and the risks to yourself and your child.

Please don't underestimate the fear of your husbands abandonment and what he might do.

[ForeverDad]

In that filing paperwork I'm sure you'll be asking for majority parenting and custodial responsibility.  Also include a request for the court to grant you temporary residency and possession of the home.  That will (hopefully) eliminate the initial physical jostling for the home - and at least give you clear and enforceable boundaries - and make the legal struggle simpler later on.

Some members here decided the home had to be sold, a sale was even ordered by the court, but the pwBPD was living in it and with the member not in possession or control then getting it sold became a lengthy and horrendous ordeal even with clear orders.  They were in and out of court for many months with the court giving the ex additional time to comply over and over.  So even if you think you'll eventually sell the house, better to keep possession since you know you'll cooperate when it is time for the sale.

And if you do stay, change the locks and add a security system.  Better to be safe(r) than sorry.

[allibaba]

Hi Forever Dad,

Yes the paperwork that I am preparing would allow us to stay in the house.  Let me be clear.  I am preparing it because its the right thing to do.  I'm not filing it because I really don't want to.

My husband flipped back to normal yesterday.  He says that he wants and needs help... .

[Matt]

He says that he wants and needs help... .

Has he taken any steps to get help?

[allibaba]

As a first step to accept being medicated for anxiety which both the therapist and doctor agree is a serious root cause of the wild mood swings.

My husband wasn't always this way.  He worked in a good job for a long time, he had good relationships with family.  He wasn't a violent person. 

About 6 yrs ago he went through something really traumatic.  He got through it but I noticed that he started to slide downhill after that.  He has PTSD as a result of the incident.  Getting treatment for PTSD and anxiety would be step 1.

Don't worry I am still meeting with the lawyer today... . Better to be prepared and not need it... . then need it and not have it.

[allibaba]

Hi Matt,

No he hasn't done anything about needing help and yes I need to see actions -- not talk.

[Matt]

Hi Matt,

No he hasn't done anything about needing help and yes I need to see actions -- not talk.

Yeah, that's what is critical.  If he decides to get help he'll get help;  if he doesn't get help then he isn't really committed to it.