Questions about a past relationship with a borderline

[Reg]

Hi,

Glad to have discovered this place.

I have been in a relationship for 3.5 years with a woman with BPD. 4 years if I

count the aftershocks that ended just over a month ago.

I guess I was so lucky to start looking for an explanation for her behaviour and

to find out she had borderline. She made me doubt so strongly about myself that

I went to see a psychologist and explained my relationship in all honesty,

including my frustrated reactions on her behavior after some time. He told me

the problem was hers, but never talked about BPD on that moment. And that I had

to make her take a decision and keep it (which was impossoble)

She could not let go of her ex husband, and it became an on/off relationship in

which she returned back to him several times. Only to miss me again. When I

look back I was very naieve even for my age LOL. But we had also experienced

the most wonderful loving moments of both our lives, so I kept fighting for us

for a long time. It became also a very confusing time for her daughter who was

between age 8 and 12 in that period.

At the start of the year I finished the relationship. In the months to come I

met some old and new friends who are in psychology and with whom I talked about

what had happened. They all came to the same conclusion... . A high level

invisible BPD... .

Anyway, I also met people who had been in the same situation, and it was as

looking in a mirror for me. Reading the book of Randi Kreger I saw so many

identical whitness accounts, they could be mine partially in many cases.

As I'm a non-fiction author, the decision came to write a book on my

experiences, not as a judgement, not to point fingers, not to play the victim,

but as a warning, and to try to convince couples to seek help. Which is not

evident... . at last in the case of the invisible BPD.

My ex took contact again some months ago and I confronted her with this. She

wanted to talk, we did, I confronted her with the facts, she said she still

loved me and I offered her the opportunity to seek help, with my support.

During the 2nd talk we had she said she had no BPD, I was the only one claiming

that and after 4 talks, she said there was no future for us, but wanted to be

friends. I told her a few days later I wanted to agree if she did seek help.

The reaction was very predictable, she didn't have anything and didn't need

help. I had even offered her to have myself tested together with her, no help.

In the past she had a relationship with a woman (during her marriage) who

dropped her from one day on another. She had a short relationship after that

with another woman, and concluded that she was not bisexual or lesbian at all,

it was nothing for her, she had done something stupid.

In the end she cheated on me with another woman, who is known to have BPD, and whom I'm even stopped from two suicide attempts at the

time just before that, my ex didn't want to let go of her as a friend and the

relationship ended between us.

After that she fell in love with another woman, lesbian and happily married,

who's marriage she was going to try to break together with another lesbian

woman, also known for having BPD and a serious alcoholic problem. Their plan

didn't work out and within a week after that they all of a sudden were in love

with one another ! It didn't last for long, two BPD problems together, and it

was once more disaster !

Now here are my questions. I get the idea from her behavior and from what

others told me that have been in the same situation that the person with BPD

often gets in a rollercoaster of one after another relationship after some time,

which gets worse and worse. Is that correct ? Does it get worse and worse ?

I've also been told that many people with high level BPD don't even know anymore their own

sexuality, or sexual identity and that some of them get involved in bisexual or lesbian

relationships because of that, even when they are not bisexual or lesbian. Is

that correct in some cases ?

I was also told that they become more and more attracted to others with BPD, it

seems logical, but is that correct ?

The last question is concerning manipulation. Not if someone with BPD is

manipulative, but if they are so easily manipulted by people who give them a lot

of attention, so that they confuse it with love and falling in love ?

I prefer to ask these questions here, because it is clear that in the US things

on this matter have been researched a lot more then in Europe

Sincere thanks

[LosingIt2]

Those with BPD have sexual identities and preferences like anyone else. Some are gay, some are straight, and some are bisexual and/or confused just like others who might be that don't have the disorder. pwBPD might use their sexuality on occasion as an exit strategy in a relationship. They act out and don't really understand the emotions behind the acting out.

[Reg]

Ok, thank you very much, it becomes difficult sometimes to know what to believe with everything one finds on the net and even in books... .

Reg

[bpdspell]

Does it get worse and worse ?

Yes. Without intense psychological treatment and an inner motivation to heal on her part she will continue to suffer with her unstable sense of self, her emotionally stunted child mind and her twisted pretzel logic of abandonment pain and shame.

I've also been told that many people with high level BPD don't even know anymore their own

sexuality, or sexual identity and that some of them get involved in bisexual or lesbian

relationships because of that, even when they are not bisexual or lesbian. Is

that correct in some cases ?

BPD's can be gay or straight but they can also cross sexual lines and boundaries in order to fulfill the needs of their disorder. Having an unstable sense of self does seem to have an influence on their willingness to live reckless, impulsive, and fulfilling their needs in any given moment. My ex had sex with men when he needed money. He saw it as survival.

I was also told that they become more and more attracted to others with BPD, it

seems logical, but is that correct ?

You don't need BPD to be attracted to your own mirror.  It can seem safer to be with someone who understands similar thought patterns or what drives our behavior but ultimately two BPD's together are like two petulant children creating world war six. In theory it seems like it should work because of commonality but eventually the disorder will bump heads and it will become a lock horn battle of pretzel logic and Olympic level manipulative games. There is no winning in BPD.

If they are so easily manipulted by people who give them a lot

of attention, so that they confuse it with love and falling in love ?

Attention is what they crave because it feeds their bottomless pit of emptiness but it doesn't remove their abandonment pain or shame and that attention never gives them a sense of self so it always backfires in the end. They long to feel whole and attention can not do that.

Attention for them is having us focus on them all the time but that isn't love. Most BPD equate love with NEED. If they need you; they love you. MY ex told me he needed me and to him that meant he loved me. Falling in love for them is very connected to this idea of being rescued from themselves and finally finding the person who can give them the perfect combination of material things, soothing & relieving them from their disordered thoughts & unconditional love. But this is fantasy love. No one on God's green earth has this type of "love" power.

[Lucky Jim]

Attention for them is having us focus on them all the time but that isn't love. Most BPD equate love with NEED. If they need you; they love you. MY ex told me he needed me and to him that meant he loved me. Falling in love for them is very connected to this idea of being rescued from themselves and finally finding the person who can give them the perfect combination of material things & unconditional love.

Well said, Spell.  Yes, they view love as an arrangement that will quell their own inner turmoil.  It's not love, of course, to put this burden on your partner, but that's what they do.  Attention and material things are important because they "fill" the bottomless pit temporarily, yet not for long.

Lucky Jim

[Reg]

Thank you very much for these answers, actually they confirm for a large part what my own logic (whatever that may be LOL) was telling me on the matter, but was not at all certain about.

Having been in BPD hell, as I have been confronted with several other borderlines during my relation with my ex partner, I see a lot of confirmation on what happened which makes me understand things a lot better.

Concerning others with BPD and the attraction my ex has been at least in two such relationships with other BPD's leading to disaster, and has seen another example of it.  She is now accusing the others (correctly) of having BPD, not understanding that she does exactly the same, as many other person most of the time would understand after some time when people tell them.

Afterwards it is so curious to me that many of the things I said when she was 'playing' with my feelings,were so correct in a certain way (playing with the meaning how it feels for a non BPD who doesn't know his or her partner suffers from BPD).  I often said them in anger, certainly after a few years. Some of these lines were, you don't know what love is, you're a great actress, you believe your own lies, do you actually have a personality or when are you going to stop to try to please everybody, can you only be happy when you buy something, don't blame me for your own mistakes... .

A good example of this was when she had cheated on me.  It was my mistake that she cheated on me, because it was due to me that she had met that person... .

Reg

[mitchell16]

Reg, these are very true statements. I was blamed with everything. and I would respond with angry words becasue i was always confused. I couldnt understand how we could see the same things. She would drink to much, get out of control and the next day it would be my fault becasue I should have stopped her and she would say she just couldnt depend on me or trust me to take care of her. The next time she staretd drinking I would polite tell her to slow down or that it was time to stop and then it would be that I was to controlling trying to tell her how to act and think. I just could win. Qhen I found out she was contact an ex boyfriend behind my back It was my fault also. I always thought she was just being mean and making excuses but know I come to believe in her mind it was her reality that was how she saw it. and no matter what or the amount of explaining could get her to change her mind.

[Reg]

Mitchell16,

When you actually started talking about the drinking of your ex this is really exactly the same in almost all the details on how my ex reacted on the same problem.

As you say, it is their reality in their head, and it can't change without psychiatric help.  The most funny thing is that my high level BPD ex, was thinking at a certain moment that she could help the other high level BPD she had cheated me with to understand her problem, while that person was in a relationship with another BPD... .   Actually she was convinced that she could do better then a preofessional on that matter !   It was one of these things that made me realise that they have lost all grasp on reality.

Reg

[mango_flower]

I've noticed a LOT of people in same sex relationships on here.

And whilst there are always going to be straight, gay and bisexual people in the population, I agree that it's above the average %.

My relationship was a same sex one... .

My own thoughts as to why they are more likely (possibly) to end up in a same sex relationship are:

a) With girls, mother replacements/substitutes

b) The fact they've never felt "normal", they feel like an outsider, so they look to smaller subcultures to try and fit somewhere

c) Same sex relationships MAY have more of a symbiotic nature, people look for others they can relate to, which causes intensity and "us against the world" feeling - which may possibly be easier with somebody of the same sex?

d) Mirroring may be easier with somebody of the same sex, and this leads to bonding, which in turn leads to wanting to be with that person.

I dunno, just some random thoughts. I'm not saying all BPDs or all gay people are like this... . this is my opinion only x

[LosingIt2]

Mango, possibly. It goes both ways however. Some people with BPD who are gay will have sexual relations with the opposite sex because it is more socially acceptable and at times more easily attainable to fulfill impulses, i.e. validation through sex. Coming to terms with being gay really requires some self-reflection and acceptance, for a pwBPD this is a very challenging task. I would review your partner's relationship history and that should be at least somewhat telling of their preferences. You don't have sexual relationships with a certain sex over and over again if you're just not in to it. BPD or not. This might be a bit of a myth that the bpdfamily.com forum is encouraging. 

[Reg]

Mango Flower and LosingIt2,

I think this is a very interesting number of points indeed.  I tend to believe that we will find indeed more women who are in a same sex relationship than vice versa, but that one thing does not exclude the other as LosingIt2 mentions.

From what I've been reading on borderline women, it seems that many of them are in search of a mother figure they didn't have when they were a child, that is the real mother, often in combination with other traumatic experiences in their early youth and later.  And many of them had traumatic experiences with men. 

The fact that my ex partner has been in many abusive situations with men even between the age of 16 till we went into a relationship when she was 33 will have given her some kind confirmation that men are not ok I suppose.  The fact that she has also seen my worst, that is accusing her of things which were correct for a non BPD's point of view, acting, believing her own lies, the lack of a personal opinion, the influencability by others, etc may even have reinforced that feeling. 

The curious thing is that at the point of the real final breakup in our relationship, I made certain to make her so angry that she would in a matter of speaking hate me.

Directly she declared to me that she was now a lesbian (before she was once more in doubt), never wanted a man in her life again, and later when she took contact again, she was no lesbian, she was possibly bisexual, and the conclusion was she actually didn't know it anymore at all.

This points in the direction of a complete loss of identity even her sexual one, because of the fact that her experience of a very high level borderline relation in which she went after me, was also an extremely bad one for her, and she had been seriously humiliated in several ways by that woman, at least that is how she sees it.

From what I've seen with my ex partner, is that at the moment of our break-up, she was in the middle of a number of relationships and friendships with a large number of persons with borderline, all of them female, and all in denial of the borderline, accusing one another about the borderline problems of which several ones who are high levels as she is herself.  Very curious.  They had all been in the same situation as she was.  Relationships with men and women, in which at one moment men were no good, and on which other moments they were seeking men again.  It seems to be some kind of vicious circle they are in.  I'm not generalising this, it is just something I see.  I've even seen that some of them, my ex including, have several profiles on social network sites, on which in one profile they are looking for men, and another one for women.  Not one on which they say they are bisexual, most curious... .

As I also know real lesbian women, who don't have any problems in their relationship, I'd say that women with borderline are making it a hell on earth for themselves, certainly when they live in denial on their problem, and for others no matter if they are hetero, bisexual or lesbian.

What's even more, I've been reading the story of a woman who had been abused sexually by men when she was young, and who had borderline, she turned to women, with the only result that she was abused again by two women at the same time, and although her borderline seems to have healed after she seeked help, she confesses that she never found back her sexual identity, so that the confusion stays part of her life... .   Very curious... .

Reg