Why don't I never get around doing what I want for me?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Why do I feel guilty if I pursue something just for my joy, not for the good of us?

Or why do I volunteer hours on other people's projects but procrastinate on my own?

Why do I feel dirty if I follow my ambition?

[tryingtogetit]

Why do I feel guilty if I pursue something just for my joy, not for the good of us?

Or why do I volunteer hours on other people's projects but procrastinate on my own?

Why do I feel dirty if I follow my ambition?

[motherof1yearold]

I have the same feelings. Curious to see what others have to say.

[winston72]

It is a very deep, profound issue for me.  I have learned to feel better if I am directing my energy toward meeting the needs and goals of other people.  I use that effort on my part to envision myself as a good person.  I think it is also a way to avoid thinking about what I really want.  It is such an odd concept!  But I think I am petrified to really feel my own feelings, especially those that are aspirational or just pleasurable.  The awareness of those feelings would somehow make me to vulnerable.  My unconscious seems to say, "Avoid these at all costs!  Red Alert!"  So, I go whole-hog toward fulfilling the needs and desires of others.   Why, I sound like the perfect mate for someone with BPD traits!  And, indeed I was/am.  Please use me as much as possible... . I am sure it will lead to my fulfillment!

Oh, boy.  I have a lot of work to do.

[Forestaken]

It is a very deep, profound issue for me.  I have learned to feel better if I am directing my energy toward meeting the needs and goals of other people.  I use that effort on my part to envision myself as a good person.  I think it is also a way to avoid thinking about what I really want.  It is such an odd concept!  But I think I am petrified to really feel my own feelings, especially those that are aspirational or just pleasurable.  The awareness of those feelings would somehow make me to vulnerable.  My unconscious seems to say, "Avoid these at all costs!  Red Alert!"  So, I go whole-hog toward fulfilling the needs and desires of others.   Why, I sound like the perfect mate for someone with BPD traits!  And, indeed I was/am.  Please use me as much as possible... . I am sure it will lead to my fulfillment!

Oh, boy.  I have a lot of work to do.

Because we enjoy the success of others.  I was always taught to share and get along. Never to put myself first.

What are your goals? Take step 1 and see how it goes!

[tryingtogetit]

Thanks for your replies! 

To me, it seems such a sign of my co-dependent tendencies... .

Putting others first and not believing my things are important enough. Thinking I can fix other peoples little dramas and distress!

Which must mean I don't find myself important enough to safe?

Hmm perhaps I have to focus on improving my self-worth?

Thanks you all!

[Rose Tiger]

Really focus on what self talk is going on in your head, if they are critical or encouraging.  Sometimes our subconscious will carry on the messages of our FOOs.  If you catch yourself thinking one of those old lies, nip it in the bud, tell that thought that it is a lie and replace it with a self loving thought.  It's like reprogramming your thoughts and getting virus software to remove the malware. 

[MaybeSo]

If self activation brings guilt, boredom, or anxiety there was a training ground for that.

It is normal/healthy to strike a balance between joy of supporting others and the joy of supporting "self". When we support ourselves in balance, it feels good and feeds the soul, thereby providing the sustenance to give of self in a balanced way as appropriate.

Self sacrificial giving of self is called for at times in life; with an infant or small child (who you nurture so they can develop their own health ability to self activate), in a crises, at certain agreed upon times when a community has voted on your leadership in a specific arena, or with a ill or elderly person who can no longer do for 'self'.

If we can never stop and focus on our own self care, nurture ourselves, focus on ourselves and our needs,  and recharge our batteries, then we are also unable to model this important developmental step for our children. Many of us learned this through our families who learned it through their families, and so on.

Happy people take time to take time to care for "self" and actually take more joy in seeing others succeed and reaching their goals then does a person who practices little self-care or self-compassion.

A good r/s with other requires good relating with 'self'. That includes self care, understanding and. providing for you own needs etc., too many skip over this and seek a fantastic relationship with 'other' while being abandoning or abusive to self. This sets the stage for getting into  a mirroring relationship that replicates our own self-neglect and self-abandonment.

Self is the essence of who you are on this earth; it will not take kindly to being abandoned or

ignored or put aside in favor of constant distraction for 'other'.  It protests. It requires balance.

The reason we do things that are dysfunctional is because we were taught by important people and experiences with those people that this is how to be. To do otherwise feels like breaking a rule, or a belief system. This feels uncomfortable to do; remaining in status quo feels more comfortable.

That's why growth is so uncomfortable and at times painful.

[talithacumi]

This is a total FOO issue for me.

My mom was an unBPD/NPD queen/witch rager who made it imminently clear just how much she resented ALL of her children for not meeting any of her highly disordered/unrealistic expectations with regard to feeling truly loved, cared about, cared for, and otherwise emotionally secure.

She felt incredibly put upon to have to feed, shelter, and clothe us. Repeatedly told all of us how much she regretted having had us, and how much better off she/her life would be without us. Expected that if we couldn't make things easier for her (i.e. clean the house, do the laundry, go grocery shopping, cook, find a way to make money and give it to her, allow her to use us an excuse for stealing/writing bad checks/not paying rent etc. etc.) then at least not make it any more difficult by needing/wanting/asking for more than she was willing to give, refusing to comply with her demands, complaining about the way we were treated, telling anyone in a position of authority about the psychological/physical abuse we were routinely subjected to, etc., etc... And, of course, raging violently at all of us - destroying our things and hitting us - often followed by her triumphantly marching out of the house, leaving us alone in terrified tears at the door, and disappearing for days without so much as a phonecall.

The goal of my childhood was to do EVERYTHING I could to avoid disappointing her and subjecting myself, as well as all of my younger siblings, to the kind of rage/rejection she felt entitled to inflict on us. I learned NOT to have any needs she wasn't actually able/willing to meet. NOT to want anything OTHER than what she was able/willing to provide. To be HAPPY with whatever she needed, wanted, and/or dished out on any given day regardless of what I was doing or had planned. To DEDICATE myself to anticipating, accomodating, providing for, facilitating, approving of, appreciating, and being an enthusiastic advocate/supporter of ALL of HER feelings, ideas, thoughts, decisions, statements, behaviors, attitudes, and/or actions - regardless of how obviously reckless, immature, irresponsible, irrational, unfair, reactionary, impulsive, self-serving, and otherwise ill-advised they were - AND to take the blame for, deal with, and do whatever I could to "fix" all of the many very substantial/serious problems all of those things invariably created for her and/or the rest of our family.

I was TAUGHT - in word and deed - that I and my needs, desires, hopes, ambitions, plans, and activities simply didn't matter. That if I couldn't STOP myself from having them, the very least I could do - given how totally disappointing, problematic, unworthy, undeserving, undesireable, and therefore WORSE than useless I was as a human being - was not to let them get in the way of HER needs, desires, hopes, ambitions, plans, activities, and happiness.

Welcome to the basic self-image I had of myself, and the way I saw/related to those who claimed to "love" me - for well over 50 years - until I was forced to start looking at what about ME not only attracted me/made me attractive to someone like my uxpwBPD in the first place, but allowed me to feel like the relationship I was able to have with him was as normal, equitable, committed, healthy, satisfying, and successful as I so clearly remember feeling it was the entire time I was with him.

A lot of the advice we get on these boards about how to detach, heal, and recover from these relationships relates - both directly and indirectly - to addressing the unhealthy/inaccurate self-image that attracted us to, and allowed us to have these kind of relationships in the first place, I think. Our inability to set/maintain boundaries. Our compulsive acceptance, understanding, and accomodation of behaviors that are inherently/unquestionably deceitful, disrespectful, inconsiderate, inconsistent, reckless, irresponsible, selfish, cruel, manipulative, abusive, and otherwise devaluing of who we are people and partners. Our vulnerability to being surprised, flattered, excited, enticed, overwhelmed, and ultimately subjugated altogether by the expression of ANY awareness of, interest in, attraction to, understanding of, and care/concern/affection for us as people that we've always needed, wanted, and secretly hoped/dreamed of someday having by proving ourselves of such great use/utility and so little bother. Our tendency toward fantasy and magical thinking.

Unless/until I'm able to see myself for who I really am - not for all the stupid things I've said/done or the many mistakes I've made that reinforce the idea of just how disappointing/worthless I am as a human being - but for all the obstacles I've somehow managed to successfully overcome, all the really amazing things I've said/done and accomplished, and the truly admirable, interesting, capable, competent, responsible, respectable, and fundamentally attractive/desireable person all those things together actually MAKE me as a person - until I'm able to change my own perception of who I am to match the reality that others see and respond to - I'm just going to continue to be attracted/attractive to, and have exactly the same kind of relationships I've always had with people like my uxpwBPD.

Working on it. Actively. It's slow going. But I think it's worth it. I think I'M worth it. And that's a start.

[Clearmind]

For me, it was FOO related. I must “do” and “fix” and “be available to anyone that needs me” in order to feel valued. It wasn’t enough to just be me.

I grew up in an alcoholic household and possibly BPD. My father took up a lot of space – there was no room for me. I was invisible and became the good girl. I served to be of value and my needs were negated. My parents, bless ‘em, were no role models who showed me that it was OK to have needs and be selfish. So as an adult it did feel wrong.

Its great you recognized this - you can work on where in your childhood you were expected to be the little parent instead of the bubbly child.

[Whatwasthat]

You've had such clear and eloquent replies tryingtogetit.

I just want to add that there can - in my own experience - be a whole range of sometimes quite small FOO things that contribute to this. And if there are enough of them they don't have to be that dramatic in order to add up to making a problem.

I probably still haven't got right to the bottom of why I need to feel 'useful' in order to feel 'worthy' - and so why I'm often out of touch with my own needs. But I'm pretty sure that it has to do with several things about my FOO that all played a part.

My mother absorbed an unhealthy amount of  belief in 'self sacrifice' herself as a child - and used to deny herself things - unnecessarily. So I learnt that that was a 'good' thing to do.

She and my father had both lost their mothers at a young age and gave off a certain amount of emotional neediness that I picked up on as a child. I felt I had to respond to that by 'caring' for them.

My much older siblings saw me as a threat or a nuisance or a toy to play with. I worked very hard to discover what they needed so I could 'fit in' and 'be loved' rather than ignored or shouted at to go away. This pattern continued into adulthood and I'm trying to change it now.

None of these things on their own is at all shocking or surprising. But put together they've given me a real weakness towards rushing to 'help' other people and forgetting completely to work out what I need for myself. This has caused me problems in my life.

Wishing you well. WWT.

[Scout99]

Why do I feel guilty if I pursue something just for my joy, not for the good of us?

Or why do I volunteer hours on other people's projects but procrastinate on my own?

Why do I feel dirty if I follow my ambition?

This thread resonates so much to me and my own process. Especially what thalitacumi writes in such an insightful way about. I too grew up in an environment where I was brought up with the understanding and core belief that it was my job to make everybody around me happy. It was not a destructive home on the surface. I have two loving parents who only had me, and I was the apple of their life... . No substance abuse, no violence... . None of that. But a mother who could not see where she ended and I began with perhaps a PD, but none that was ever talked about or discussed. But to the point where she even was jealous if I happened to show a bit too much affection to my dad, by talking to him or hugging him without hugging her... . In her mind i was supposed to grow up to become her best friend, and do all the things she from her childhood felt deprived of. i was supposed to share her interests, her ambitions and just simply be like her... . In my adolescence she even threatened to leave my father when I tried to break free and do my own thing. And since he had never developed any courage to protect me, I succumbed, and diminished my dreams, needs, wants and focused on the one thing I knew best... . To make other people feel good by helping, supporting, nurturing and being there for them. And secretly hoping for that one day be able to get some of it back from that someone, it just took one... . Who would be willing to give just a little of that also to me... . I have never been one to ask for much. But just that... .

It was not that long ago I began my journey into my own private deceit of myself, in search of my abandoned self. And though I am aware today about all the why's and how's and find myself in a much greater balance than before - in a sense I am still lost... . And especially when it comes to this threads core question! Why is it so hard to do something for myself?

It is what is called for in almost all threads here... . Think of you, take care of you, do what you want to do... . And the list goes on... . I write it too... . to others... . because yes, I realize it is the truth! but still every time i read it, an intense feeling of pressure starts to build up in the pit of mu stomach... . Like I need to achieve something, accomplish something. and I just don't know how!

The trouble for me is I have just begun to find myself. And it is a self that I once abandoned, perhaps as early as the age of five or so... . to make room for all the things others needed of me... . And the thing is... . That self is a pretty blank page!

It, yes I call it still it, because I am not yet fully in touch with it, doesn't know what the h*ll it wants! Much less who it is... . And I am just in the beginning of getting aquainted with it... . And I sometimes even dread what I will find once we touch base... . So I hesitate, and try to avoid it at times, and I try a lot of things to test if I like it or not... . Like trying out new things to do and such... . And then evaluate... . Did I like this or not... . And very often the answer is... . I don't know... .

Not always, but often... . In a way I can from my perspective of not being a BPD I can still identify with their lost sense of self, since I share that with them... . And I think a lot of us do, who get ourselves involved in r/s with people with PD's... . But we seldom talk about it. It is not just co dependency. It is also identification... .

What I would like to bring forward to this thread and its owners questions, is that it has to be allowed to take time. We have to learn how to walk before we can run and before we can begin to explore. And I think a lot of what is behind both feelings of guilt for doing such a "selfish act" as doing stuff for ourselves also comes from a place where we often simply just don't know what being in touch with ourselves really means... .

And there is also a bit of grieving in that process, which really is about unlearning and letting go of so many things that we or at least I have been taught, and also have taught myself to be true about both myself and about life as a whole... .

Maybe I am not making sense to anyone with this.  But it is my take on it from the point where I am at right now, anyway... .

Best wishes to you all

Scout99