HELP Going to lawyer tomorrow. Terrified BPDh is going to freak out

[Abigayle]

I am not sure about all the correct abbreviations for husbands kids etc, but anyway... . I left my BPD husband 3 weeks ago - well actually he left for a week then we met to discuss things and he told me he would kill me if I tried to get sole custody of our 4 yr old daughter. I got scared and took my daughter to my parents where we are now. Since then things have been tense but I have let him see her and have her for overnights out of fear of being charged with absconding. This was the hardest thing I've ever done because he does not care for her and when we had visitation with his other daughter he would trash her mom to her. (now, at 15yrs she refuses to talk to him). I have an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow and am prepared to start the legal process. I did this because he had her Sat night and was supposed to keep her till Monday morning. Texted me Sunday am saying he would like to trade that day for a sunny day. I said no problem I'll come get her and then he proceeded to hold me in a text 'conversation' for the next 3 hours. He finally agreed to let me come get her - we never set a plan for the "sunny day" he just wanted to play it by ear. Nothing I said to close the conversation mattered and he wouldn't agree on any points even when I asked point blank "just tell me what you want." He couldn't. So this morning I got up and he was already texting me again . I ignored the texts because I have asked him to email me from now on. Trying to go 'lc' and he just can't stand it. He left texts all day saying that I ignored our plans and messed up his day. We didn't set plans. I don't even really know what I am looking for by posting here. All I know is that I am scared and feel like I am having a constant panic attack. I am so in fear fo my daughter. When I picked her up she was wearing her clothes from the day before, was dirty, hadn't taken her medicine or brushed her teeth since the previous morning when I had her. Help.

[marieke]

Dear Abigayle -- I am not one of the "regulars" or administrators in this forum and don't have much expertise counselling members of BPD family, but I do want to reach out to you. I understand that you are scared -- if I were you I would be in a panic, too. You are right to be concerned about your daughter, and if I were you I would let your lawyer know about your BPD husband's actions over the past few days and how concerned you are for your daughter. There may be some emergency measure that can be done to ensure that she is safe and does not have to visit her father unless something is put in place for her safety. I am sure other members will be joining in on this thread soon -- but right now I want to give you a virtual hug and let you know that you are not alone.

[mamachelle]

Abigayle,



I understand you are frightened right now. Seeing a lawyer is a good first step. It sounds like your H is more interested in engaging with you than your daughter right now.

I think he is feeling frightened himself. Is there any way you could handle a sunny day visit to a park with him and your daughter for a few hours if he wants to see her? Keeping visits short and safely public with you there might be the key for right now.

I think that it is wise to see this not in terms of him 'freaking out' but in how you can plan for the best of possible outcomes while keeping yourself and your daughter safe. yes, he will freak out. But you need to be willing to let that image go and focus on yourself and your daughter and what is best.

If he has a history of DV then you need to bring this to the lawyer. Anything documented will help.

Ok, please keep posting more in Legal as you have started. That is probably the best place for this at this point as you are consulting with the lawyer. Hang in there. Breathe.


mamachelle

[Waddams]

Without a custody order, you have just as much legal right to have your daughter as he does, and he can't make you hand her over.  If he's not going to be responsible with her, don't send her to him. 

You also don't have to play his games.  Let him text and be all dramatic.  Just ignore it.

Can you document his threat?  Are there other instances where he has been violent or threatening?  Can you document those?

[ForeverDad]

Without a custody order, you have just as much legal right to have your daughter as he does, and he can't make you hand her over.  If he's not going to be responsible with her, don't send her to him. 

You also don't have to play his games.  Let him text and be all dramatic.  Just ignore it.

Can you document his threat?  Are there other instances where he has been violent or threatening?  Can you document those?

I agree with Waddams, if there are no court orders stating otherwise, you both have equal but unspecified rights to your children.  Ever heard of the "possession is 9/10 of the law"?  More or less, that's probably your legal situation now.  In most states no one, not even the police, will require you to hand over the children to him unless there is a court order stating so.  (The police may encourage you to defuse a confrontation, but without a written court order in hand they won't force an exchange.  Hey, with me they wouldn't even enforce an exchange when we had orders, they just put pressured us to work it out and told us to otherwise get it handled back in court.)

If you decide there is a risk of danger (DV, child abuse, injury) then you can set limits on his access to the children until the officials (court, CPS, etc) can determine how much, if any, contact is appropriate.

Back in 2006 there were 3 months I didn't have a court ordered parenting schedule.  So my ex just kept our preschooler.  I worked, she didn't.  She even blocked all calls when I tried to talk to him.  Of course she wasn't going to talk to me since she felt super entitled so I had no opportunity to request and exchange, she would have said No anyway.  Our son wasn't in school yet, he was always with her, so I wasn't able to pick him up from school.  Even if I had found a way to get him, the next time I went back to work she could have gone to wherever I had in child care and as parent she would have had the right to take him.  Here's a quote from what I wrote on another thread:

I filed for divorce because my ex was blocking all contact with my son.  It took me a few weeks to get a local lawyer, get papers in order and to file.  Then I had to wait 7 weeks for that first divorce hearing.  They told me there was no way to do it sooner than scheduled.  Once I was in court and got the same magistrate I had several months before, I could understand why they said that court wouldn't put a rush on my case, the magistrate wasn't outraged at all that I had been blocked by that time for 3 whole months, not even my phone calls got through to him.  All the magistrate said was , "Well, Mr. FD will get to start seeing his son again this weekend, he'll get alternate weekends and an evening in between."  If there had been any outrage at her blocking, I'd like to think I would have gotten immediate contact and make-up time as well.  But I didn't.  In fact, ex asked to delay our reunion by more than a day and the magistrate granted the delay as she asked, so my weekend reunion was shortened by a day.  I was stunned, yet it didn't phase my court.

So I wouldn't worry too much about a few days or a couple weeks of 'blocked' access.  Court won't see you as evil if you do that until you get court involved.  IMO

My point is that a lawyer may advise you to (very carefully, cautiously and properly) do what you feel is best for your safety and your child's safety.  If you feel there is a risk and you allow the threatening parent to have alone time with the child, then the court will conclude thee is no risk if you allow contact.

Be aware too that H threatened you and not the child.  Court is a strange place where sometimes the legalisms get a life of their own.  It may not be stated in so many words, but courts view people as though they have two halves, one is adult behaviors (with spouses and others) and the other is parenting behaviors (with the children).  If adult behaviors are poor (such as with threats) then court may not necessarily see that as impacting the parenting behaviors.  I'm not saying I agree, but that's a legal perspective of which to be aware.

All I know is that I am scared and feel like I am having a constant panic attack. I am so in fear for my daughter.

Remember this in future weeks:  From a legal staNPDoint, you should be consistent.  If you feel unsafe and scared, then never let his lawyer manage to get you to say that sometimes you're not scared with him.  You can't say you feel unsafe and want protection 'some of the time'.

Do you have witnesses to any of his threats or other poor behaviors?  Do you have recordings of his threats?  Even if not, you can file for protection and then let the courts and whatever other professionals examine your statements, make evaluations and decide how limited to make his contact with you and the children.

You may need to seek consultations with more than one lawyer.  Not all lawyers have the experience or ability to deal with high conflict cases.  Different lawyers can suggest different legal strategies.  By seeing multiple lawyers you can decide which may be the best for you.

This inexpensive handbook by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger is a must have and available at their websites and elsewhere:

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder

[momtara]

The drawback to her holding on to her 4-year-old is that if he gets hold of her at some point, he may do the same.

I went to a lot of lawyers, fearing my husband would hurt our kids, and they told me that many times, mothers fear this but it's not true.  The husbands are more intent on scaring us than hurting the kids.

That said, each case is different and if you are concerned, you have a right to be concerned.

I wish you had tape recorded his last threat.  Record EVERY conversation.   Every one.  (as long as it's legal in your state.)  Take photos of the texts too.  If you tell him his texts are unwelcome and he won't stop, and the texts are not about your child, then you can get a restraining order.

[momtara]

Also, my hubby has his rages and calm periods.  I try to let him see the kids during the calm periods and tapdance around it during rages.  If you know your hub's moods and limitations, maybe you can work around them for now.

[livednlearned]

You're going to be ok, really. Many of us have been through what you're going through and it takes a while, and it can be expensive, and you'll feel afraid like you've never felt before, but it will work out. This site is the single-best source of support and advice I know, and people here care. You won't be alone.

1. Read Splitting: Divorcing a NPD or BPD Spouse by Bill Eddy.

2. Read Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak.

Document everything. Keep a journal of everything that happens. It will be your godsend. If you can, limit all of your interactions with him to text. Find out from your L if you can record him covertly. In some states, like mine, it's legal to do this.

Can you afford a therapist, or are you already seeing one? If not, I highly, highly recommend that you do. Living with an abusive spouse is extremely stressful and distorting and a therapist will help you figure out what is normal and what isn't. You need to understand normal because it's critical to your thinking when you go through the custody and divorce process. Some of us here have sabotaged ourselves with our own thinking, and a therapist can help you avoid that.

It's exceptionally difficult to get out of a relationship with disordered spouses without being affected in deep ways, and you need someone to validate your experiences. Especially during the legal proceedings. Surround yourself with supportive people who help you. People who tell you to try and get along with your spouse or settle for something that does not protect you or your child don't understand the severity of BPD. Some of us have had to end friendships with people who don't understand what we're going through.

It probably feels scary right now, and it may not seem like it right now, but it will get better. Way better. I am almost 3 years out of my marriage to N/BPDx. He terrified me and terrorized me. He hasn't gone away -- we have a son together -- but I became so much stronger and dealt with a lot of the issues that led me to N/BPDx in the first place.

You'll get there too.  

[Abigayle]

Thank you everyone for your kind words and advice. I went through with the court order for temporary custody today. My hands were shaking so badly when I signed it. Seeing the behavior I have told my lawyer about written out on paper in legalese was quite disturbing. It sounded SO bad the way he worded it but when I told him that it made me nervous he asked me to read it carefully and see if there was anything untrue or exaggerated... . there was not. I think I have spent so much time minimizing his behavior that I can't bare to look at it for what it is. It has me filled with doubt and also guilty just imagining what he will experience when he reads it. Not to mention I am terrified of his reaction. He is so far in denial he will probably really believe it when he is calling me a liar.

Meanwhile he is sending me texts about how he loves me and wants to go to counseling now... . I have been advised to send him one message only until he is served - I went to a lawyer and suggest you do the same. This is so out of my comfort zone.

[ForeverDad]

Good for you and your child.  These first steps are the hardest ones.  As time goes on and as you keep making steps going forward, it will gradually get clearer and you will be more confident of your decision.

These first days and weeks will be hard, you will feel strong impulses to undo these first steps.  Yes, besides his reaction or overreaction, you could sabotage yourself.  How?  By either shrinking back or being fooled into believing protests and promises that it will be different if only you come back.  Acknowledge that you could even want to go back to the old familiar ways but keep moving forward.  You know you can't go back to the way things were.  Be prepared for him to promise anything, that "now I really will change".  Promises are cheap and empty, it's the actions that count.  At this point you can't trust promises of change.  Yes, if he will change, good for him, but you can't trust that any proclaimed insights will persist.

[Forward2free]

You've made a great first step with getting a lawyer involved.

I believe that stepping out of the fog and seeing the behaviors and actions of your Husband in real-world terms is probably the most confronting thing you'll do. I had no idea how much I had tolerated and minimised things until I involved lawyers, counselors and child advocates. Actually, even my friends and family didn't know what I had been dealing with.

"You’ve no doubt heard the story of the frog in boiling water. If you drop a frog into boiling water, it immediately jumps out (or so the story goes). However, if you put a frog in a pot of room-temperature water, and then bring the water to a boil very, very slowly, the frog will stay in the water until it dies. It’s an odd experiment that I have no intention of testing in my kitchen, but it’s an apt metaphor for how people sometimes deal with slowly deteriorating situations." https://www.facebook.com/notes/vernel-villamarin/take-charge-of-your-life-story-of-the-frog-in-boiling-water/10151285528715669

If something doesn't feel safe, trust your instinct. Call the police if there is an emergency or if your husband continues to harass or threaten you. Call a domestic violence hotline and talk with them about how you are feeling and what's happening. They will be able to help you objectively plan what's required. It can be hard when you are feeling so emotionally vulnerable.

[momtara]

He is "recycling" you.  Stay strong.

Are you ok leaving, or does a small part of you want him to change and come back?  Make a list of things that would have to change completely for him to return.  Often, those things will never happen, but it may help you with clarity.  If he has made threats, then you have to stay away anyway.

If you get sucked in, remind yourself of all the horrible things that have happened.

I just say all this because I STILL get sucked in sometimes when my husband is acting sweet.

Patricia Evans, on her verbal abuse site, recommends that you remind your spouse of some of the things they did wrong, as you are leaving.  Not stuff that can be argued back and forth, the things that are kind of definite that he can't really deny.  That way, they will realize they are partly to blame for the splitup, even tho they won't admit it.  Then they are less likely to get revenge.

The fact that your lawyer wrote out some of these things is GOOD.  He won't see this as you being vengeful as much as you having to do what you had to do.