uBPDm battling for control, I feel like we're stuck in an endless cycle...

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hi all,

I have posted here on and off. The short of it is I have a uBPDm who lives a state away, been living this far away for 5 years now. I am a PhD student just moved into a house with my SO of coming on 6 years this fall (we plan to be engaged soon). My uBPDm has not worked since 2008, when my father was suddenly killed in a car accident. He left behind a business, properties, and more stuff than you see on an episode of Hoarders. Through much hard work on my and my sibling's parts (I have gone home to uBPDm's house for every single academic break I have ever had for the past seven years), we have cleared out a LOT of stuff- really, things are much better than they have been in terms of the sheer amount of stuff to get rid of.

But, as perhaps no surprise, my uBPDm has done very little to manage her finances. She wants us to view them as our finances (even though all property is only in her name). Every month she says it would be impossible for her to be able to pay all of her bills, that she doesn't have the money. Every month, for over a year, she says this, and she always pays her bills. I know this is her creating a crisis, trying to take control. There was a time period where I loaned her money for things like this, but no longer do I do that.

So, my uBPDm has claimed that she can't leave the way-too-large-for-her-needs house she is currently in because it is full of our, meaning me and my siblings', stuff. This is largely because she had never had a single garage sale or given anything away until last year, so she still owns every toy, shoe, and piece of clothing the four of us ever had since birth. We have offered to come in and take things to give to charity- she refuses saying she needs every penny she can get selling it. We tell her she is welcome to sell any of it. She gets upset that all we want to say is 'you' to her instead of us offering to do it for her. (even though I spent all last summer selling things online and setting up garage sales

The current dilemma... . my SO and I, like I mentioned, have just moved into a new house. We looked at houses a bit last year, but ended up renting a cheap townhouse, in part to save money, but also in part because I was home with uBPDm and not in our current state to look. uBPDm, of course, tried to completely take control of our house search and I wanted her to have absolutely no part in that. So we settled on a cheaper option to save money, and we had no problems while living there (other than it being not a house). uBPDm was very upset, in part because she wanted me to get all of my stuff out of the house and into my own house (and also, of course, because she saw it in completely black-and-white terms, where I am either being controlled by her or my SO).

So, since we have a house now, I have tried to talk to her about us making a visit to get all the stuff she wants me to get. This includes a washer and dryer that she is not using, that we could use (the house does not have one right now) and an old push lawnmower that I have never seen her use, that probably doesn't work, but we could take it and see if we could get it working, as we also need that. This would be in addition to personal objects in my room at her house and other items of furniture that she has claimed she is holding onto 'for her children'. Now, we are not strapped for money, and have no problems going out and buying a used washer/dryer/push mower/anything else we need elsewhere- my SO and I actually quite enjoy going to yard sales and thrift stores. And actually, my SO would prefer this, as it will not exactly be cheap for us to make the trip (driving 2 larger vehicles across state and renting and pulling a Uhaul trailer). But I have insisted, because getting the it all is getting us stuff we could use and getting stuff out of uBPDm's house, which needs to happen so she can move/sell the house.

uBPDm is of course totally refusing this, largely based on the fact that we formulated a plan without her involvement. She insists that she will instead rent a Uhaul (she has no money?) and bring us all the stuff (she can't move it all on her own?) during the exact time of day when I am home working and my SO is away at his office job. I told her that either me AND my SO are coming, or we can find the items we need here and she can sell everything of mine there. But this feels a lot like an ultimatum, which I have never seen work well with her. I didn't take it as far as insisting only on that, but I made it clear than no, I was not going there alone; no, I was not coming ahead of or without my SO. I tried to logically point out that it makes no sense for her to waste money doing something that I have already offered to do.   [on a related note, a friend of me and my SO has offered to help, and I'm not sure if this would be good or bad if he came... . ]

I feel like I can't have a conversation with her anymore that doesn't lead to fighting, and I have felt this way for over a year. I try to remain calm, explain things logically, and it goes nowhere. I've read about DEARMAN and SET and they don't seem to help me, though I am likely not doing them right. I try to enforce boundaries and let her know that I will not listen to her call me names, belittle my work, or insult my SO. This immediately sets her into a rage. I feel like we're stuck in this huge cycle, taking jabs at each other. Everything that I try to explain that I feel like she does to me, she turns around and says I do it to her. It's always my fault for setting off her anger, for why she says the thing she says.

Has anyone been able to sort of re-program the way they talk to the pwBPD? I can't even remember how we used to interact in a way that wasn't like this.

[Aldrea]

Hi all,

I have posted here on and off. The short of it is I have a uBPDm who lives a state away, been living this far away for 5 years now. I am a PhD student just moved into a house with my SO of coming on 6 years this fall (we plan to be engaged soon). My uBPDm has not worked since 2008, when my father was suddenly killed in a car accident. He left behind a business, properties, and more stuff than you see on an episode of Hoarders. Through much hard work on my and my sibling's parts (I have gone home to uBPDm's house for every single academic break I have ever had for the past seven years), we have cleared out a LOT of stuff- really, things are much better than they have been in terms of the sheer amount of stuff to get rid of.

But, as perhaps no surprise, my uBPDm has done very little to manage her finances. She wants us to view them as our finances (even though all property is only in her name). Every month she says it would be impossible for her to be able to pay all of her bills, that she doesn't have the money. Every month, for over a year, she says this, and she always pays her bills. I know this is her creating a crisis, trying to take control. There was a time period where I loaned her money for things like this, but no longer do I do that.

So, my uBPDm has claimed that she can't leave the way-too-large-for-her-needs house she is currently in because it is full of our, meaning me and my siblings', stuff. This is largely because she had never had a single garage sale or given anything away until last year, so she still owns every toy, shoe, and piece of clothing the four of us ever had since birth. We have offered to come in and take things to give to charity- she refuses saying she needs every penny she can get selling it. We tell her she is welcome to sell any of it. She gets upset that all we want to say is 'you' to her instead of us offering to do it for her. (even though I spent all last summer selling things online and setting up garage sales

The current dilemma... . my SO and I, like I mentioned, have just moved into a new house. We looked at houses a bit last year, but ended up renting a cheap townhouse, in part to save money, but also in part because I was home with uBPDm and not in our current state to look. uBPDm, of course, tried to completely take control of our house search and I wanted her to have absolutely no part in that. So we settled on a cheaper option to save money, and we had no problems while living there (other than it being not a house). uBPDm was very upset, in part because she wanted me to get all of my stuff out of the house and into my own house (and also, of course, because she saw it in completely black-and-white terms, where I am either being controlled by her or my SO).

So, since we have a house now, I have tried to talk to her about us making a visit to get all the stuff she wants me to get. This includes a washer and dryer that she is not using, that we could use (the house does not have one right now) and an old push lawnmower that I have never seen her use, that probably doesn't work, but we could take it and see if we could get it working, as we also need that. This would be in addition to personal objects in my room at her house and other items of furniture that she has claimed she is holding onto 'for her children'. Now, we are not strapped for money, and have no problems going out and buying a used washer/dryer/push mower/anything else we need elsewhere- my SO and I actually quite enjoy going to yard sales and thrift stores. And actually, my SO would prefer this, as it will not exactly be cheap for us to make the trip (driving 2 larger vehicles across state and renting and pulling a Uhaul trailer). But I have insisted, because getting the it all is getting us stuff we could use and getting stuff out of uBPDm's house, which needs to happen so she can move/sell the house.

uBPDm is of course totally refusing this, largely based on the fact that we formulated a plan without her involvement. She insists that she will instead rent a Uhaul (she has no money?) and bring us all the stuff (she can't move it all on her own?) during the exact time of day when I am home working and my SO is away at his office job. I told her that either me AND my SO are coming, or we can find the items we need here and she can sell everything of mine there. But this feels a lot like an ultimatum, which I have never seen work well with her. I didn't take it as far as insisting only on that, but I made it clear than no, I was not going there alone; no, I was not coming ahead of or without my SO. I tried to logically point out that it makes no sense for her to waste money doing something that I have already offered to do.   [on a related note, a friend of me and my SO has offered to help, and I'm not sure if this would be good or bad if he came... . ]

I feel like I can't have a conversation with her anymore that doesn't lead to fighting, and I have felt this way for over a year. I try to remain calm, explain things logically, and it goes nowhere. I've read about DEARMAN and SET and they don't seem to help me, though I am likely not doing them right. I try to enforce boundaries and let her know that I will not listen to her call me names, belittle my work, or insult my SO. This immediately sets her into a rage. I feel like we're stuck in this huge cycle, taking jabs at each other. Everything that I try to explain that I feel like she does to me, she turns around and says I do it to her. It's always my fault for setting off her anger, for why she says the thing she says.

Has anyone been able to sort of re-program the way they talk to the pwBPD? I can't even remember how we used to interact in a way that wasn't like this.

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, Aldrea    and I'm sorry for all the turmoil in your life with your Mom! You ask for a new way to communicate with your Mom, and though you've learned some of the tools already and have found that they didn't work at the time, maybe these links will help you now:

How To Manage a BPD Relationship/Reducing Anger Using SET

Boundaries Tools of Respect

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Have you read any books about BPD? "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" by Valerie Porr is excellent: explains clearly what it is and what you are dealing with as a loved one, and gives so much information related to all the tools talked about in the Articles above, that it feels like a college course! It's helped me immensely with my BPD son, DIL and MIL... . I highly recommend the Articles above and that book... . I'm sure that now that you've posted you will get more advice... .

[Aldrea]

I had read the Understanding the Borderline Mother book when I first found this site, just to see if I thought my mom was anything like a pwBPD. I highlighted each part of the book that applied- and I ended up highlighting almost the entire book! That was an eye-opener.

What you say about the Porr book makes it sound very good, I'll pick it up in my next Amazon order, but I won't be able to get and read it before my trip this weekend.

My SO and I are going to stick to our plan, and drive to his parent's house (in the same state as my uBPDm's house) to get their larger vehicle and some furniture that he wants. Then tomorrow evening we'll drive to uBPDm's house. My SO is contemplating getting a hotel room rather than staying at her house. I definitely am open to that as an exit strategy, but I don't want to go in with that mindset.

In times like this I hate that I've confided some (not even all) of the nasty things uBPDm says about him to him, but he's all I have to talk to about it. My male siblings don't want to hear it, and my  younger sis is home with uBPDm right now so she rarely has time away from uBPDm to talk, and when she does, she needs to vent, which I totally understand. In any case, he is definitely wary of being around her and feeling like he'll be unwelcome. (though when we moved into our previous townhome, uBPDm helped me move and refused to enter it while he was there).

I am really really dreading this weekend. I'll be calling uBPDm soon, though, and will try to be calm, non-confrontational, not trying to "win".

I think that's a problem for me- how do I enforce boundaries while ALSO being supportive/empathetic/sympathetic? I feel boundary-enforcing sets her into a rage.

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, Aldrea... . I get what you are saying; when the person we are dealing with (no less a MOM!) either can't take "No" for an answer or just blows up when we try to set a boundary, it is really difficult to make it work. One thing I try to do when in that situation is try to remember that I need to do it for ME, and I need to do it lovingly. Did you read the link I gave you above regarding setting boundaries? Also, the video below (if you have a little time to watch it) could help:

Video-Tools to Reduce Conflict with a person suffering from BPD

Of course, all of this is harder with a Mom with BPD; the buttons being pushed by all the people involved are pretty severe... . If you can just remember to detach enough to remember that her reactions aren't really about YOU, but about HER, then maybe it will be easier? I've found (with my MIL) that just remembering to be compassionate about what I now know is her mental state and the pain she is in, has made it easier for me to not take her behavior as seriously or personally... . BUT: she is NOT my Mom, so I can only imagine how hard it would be if she were. Good luck with this task; I hope the phone call goes well, and the trip is easier than you anticipate