Latest court battle for custody

[Forward2free]

I'm moving this into a new topic - it's no longer about BPD/Nxh contributing to medical, it is about him, once again, trying for 50/50 and my new court battle... .

Quote from: ForeverDad on July 10, 2013, 10:04:32 PM

Could this generosity be designed to weaken your determination to keep contact minimal?  He has spent huge sums and has made only minimal impact on the case.  This sharing of expenses would be a comparatively small amount and well worth it if it makes you relax your resistance to faster change.

FD - you are 100% correct. I received his proposal today and he has asked for joint parental responsibility - against the court ordered family consultants recommendation that I retain sole parental responsibility.

Plus, he's added way more time, way more quickly, and with way more conditions to favour himself. One of my favourites is that in the event that either one of us moves more than 20kms away, we change the changeover to a central location. Conveniently, his rental is per calendar year and he has changed at least once a year for the past 4 years, in fact, has had 7 addresses in that time. I have stayed within 3kms of our original residence, and have a mortgage, so it is clear who this is for.

He has also asked to take the children to a Taylor Swift and a One Direction concert this year, and told the kids about it so I am in a hard position, must say yes or look bad to kids. Does this really matter, probably not. Bigger things to fight here.

He also wants to be the first option to care for the children if I am unavailable which would mean he will know each and every time I am unavailable, whether through illness, social events or otherwise. Control much? He doesn't have a reciprocal clause for me to be his first option if unavailable, even though the children live with me.

Quote from: ForeverDad on July 10, 2013, 10:04:32 PM

Quote

He told me he doesn’t totally trust me either.

Whatever?  Gaslighting.  As in, "I don't trust you either, so if I'm bad then so are you."

After what he's done, I can't see 50/50 ever happening, even if the country pushes it.  There's just too much history

And no the children won't hate you and run to him when they get older.  At least, not due to you.  the odds are against that happening.

Quote

He knows I have been dating someone and asked me if he has met the kids and if he is safe.

He's trying to say your judgment is poor and not to be trusted.  Like my ex does, anyone else is portrayed as a 'probable' abuser.  I'm trying to think of the words... . like every word he touches makes it icky, because if said by anyone else (who is reasonably normal) it would be okay, but with his history it's twisted, distorted.  Coming from a house-destroyer it's hypocritical, though he's slippery enough to make it hard for you to say it.

You're so right. It's fair that he doesn't trust me, afterall, my judgement was severely off when I became entwined with him.

I know that going against his proposed orders may not be received well by BPD/Nxh, and we have a court date in November already set. Of course I don't have or want to spend more money on that. But I will not let him railroad me in to an unsafe arrangement for the kids. Although I thought the experts were being too lenient with their recommendations, they are still the only authority that we have at this time and I need to go with their opinion.

Sigh. I wish there was an easier way. Actually, I can't believe this is still happening after almost 4 years from my first application.

I'm wondering if I go back with documenting his lies and false accusations that enabled the good court evaluation for him as an intro to me reminding him that he accepted the status quo for a further 6 months when he couldn't accept a much better custody agreement. Maybe it's time to step up instead of roll over?

I did tell him money was tight for me, hence my request for medical expenses for DD8 and  I am tired of this process. He told me that taking the kids more would actually help me. It's so sleazy it makes me feel sick.

I don't know what to do. I want the kids to be safe. I know he is a big risk, most likely under stress from relationship woes, and he's in year 2 with current young blonde so my guess is that the honeymoon period will not last too much longer. Just depends if she's wise enough to get out before marriage or kids... . At the moment she swoons over him on facebook. 

How do you find the motivation to keep going? How do you know when it's enough? How do you know when you can deny the past and pretend they will be fine?

[Forward2free]

I haven't written my response to my lawyer yet. The more prep work I do, the less it will cost.

I think I will fight the shared custody request, and the additional overnight request.

He doesn't want full weekend overnights to start until this time next year. In your experience, should I load him up sooner (start of school next year) to see if he will cope or struggle, or should I let it be more gradual (12 months from now)?

I am torn about what to do. I think part of me wants it to work for the kids sake, but honestly, deep down, part of me still wants him to fail so that I can sweep in, pick up the pieces and tell the kids that I tried, but, it didn't work out.

[Matt]

How old are the kids, and how are they doing?

What is the most recent court order?

[Forward2free]

Thanks Matt.

DD8 and DS6, both doing really well now in general life. DS6 is being affected by BPD/Nxh's favoritism of DD8, so after the CE mentioned it, he went out and bought him $$$$ of toys. It was a burst. We're back to 'normal' now and DD8 got her choice for the last 4 visits and DS6 was told no. He wanted to go to the movies but BPD/Nxh wanted to talk with them, and took them home to give them tickets to a One Direction concert a month after the Taylor Swift concert. Yes, another great dad story for him.

Current orders are for 4 hours every 2 weeks unsupervised for last 2 years. No other contact - no phone calls, contact with school or extra curricular activities, no shared friendship groups. Prior to that, 1 year of supervised 2 hours every 2 weeks.

Psychiatrist, Treating Psychologist and CE agree that BPD/Nxh is working through his childhood and trying to build his self esteem. They believe this will help with his destructive patterns. They agree that the abuse towards me was vile, and repeated with previous partners and at least one partner after me, but no pattern towards the kids. They agree that he should have more time with the kids, but not parental responsibility.

I am worried that he'll struggle when real life kicks in and the responsibility of feeding, clothing, schedules overwhelm him. I don't trust him. I know I need to do as the courts recommend, but I don't trust him. Not sure I ever will or ever should.

[Matt]

Can you respond to his motion very simply, by stating that you don't think the change will be best, and telling why?  And then let the chips fall where they may?

That way you're not agreeing to something you don't think is best, but you also aren't over-reacting.

[Forward2free]

Just received a letter from my legal company to say BPD/Nxh is not agreeable to the very good offer, based on family report. He wants shared custody and is taking me back to court.

At all times in the past 4 years, the experts have told us that I should have sole custody. I feel sick about this, but not all together surprised. I mean, really?

Why do BPD/N's feel so entitled?

To make matters worse, BPD/Nxh's lawyer is going on maternity leave before the court dates in November and, my lawyer left the firm last week.

They haven't officially informed me and I guess they are waiting to appoint someone for me. I've spent about $110,000 in 4 years so would be seen as a lucrative client. Am I better off moving my files to a new firm right now? I would potentially be able to use the same barrister in court, and all negotiations are off the table according to BPD/Nxh's lawyer so I'm lost as to what to do.

Would a new lawyer fight harder? I haven't always been happy with my legal team and I only stayed because I worked through things with my lawyer and I thought she was ok.

So annoying!

[Matt]

Well it's a pain in the neck to change lawyers, and it can be expensive, but if you stay with the same firm they shouldn't ask for an additional retainer.  Maybe you can learn from your experience with the last attorney, and talk with someone at the firm about your needs going forward.  What have you been pleased with so far, what do you hope will be different - what are your needs?  If they step up and offer somebody who can do what you need, great.  Or if not you can make a change.

It's always a good idea to be very clear about what your objectives are, and why, and ask the new person if they are ready to put together a plan to achieve those objectives.

Since your ex's behavior seems irrational - trying for shared custody even though all the experts have said you should have sole - maybe this is the right time to file a motion asking the court to have all your legal fees paid by the other side.  Or let the other side know you plan to file that motion later if that is more customay - "If you proceed with this effort to get shared custody despite all the experts' inputs, we will ask the court to make your client responsible for all of my clients' legal costs." or whatever.

[Forward2free]

Thanks Matt, that is really excellent advice. I guess I would need to pay a new firm to read all my documents? I did some web enquiries over the weekend and they offer fixed fees and better deals and promise the earth, but I like the reasons you gave to stay with the current firm. I know they'll say anything to get my business.

I am especially taken by the concept that BPD/Nxh should be up for costs! Will keep you posted when they call me back with my new lawyer... .

Edited  - my legal firm called me and a senior partner is handling my file until they appoint someone. Any work that they do to get up to speed on my file is not charged, only the work for me such as letters etc.

BPD/Nxh's laywer said in her letter that he doesn't agree to resolving the matter which included time for the children to attend a One Direction and a Taylor Swift concert. He did ask though if he could still take the kids to the concerts anyway.

Transitional partner said he is going to write to other side to say no to concert tickets. BPD/Nxh is clearly trying to position me to be the bad guy if I say no to the concerts and he said that it will look worse for BPD/Nxh if he is seen to try and punish me, but destroy the kids. He said I have sole parental, kids are with me, it's on my time, no permission was sought prior to tickets being purchased, expectation set with the kids that they will be allowed to go etc and that is not ok. :-) Plus, he is going to tell them to hand the tickets over for the events so that the kids do not miss out... .

He also said courts in Aust are loathe to award costs orders so they can try, but he doesn't think it will make any difference.

Says my matter will be handled swiftly... . can't talk too much about next steps and setting expectations until I get a new lawyer assigned, but it's progress.

[livednlearned]

I am especially taken by the concept that BPD/Nxh should be up for costs! Will keep you posted when they call me back with my new lawyer... .

That's what happened during my trial. I had to insist on it, over and over and over. My L was surprised that the judge awarded it, but he did. I'm not sure I'll ever see the money (here, you cannot garnish wages for repayment of legal fees), and unfortunately, I still have to pay my L. It's not like N/BPDx pays her directly, which would be nice 

[Forward2free]

That gives me hope, thanks LnL - I'll keep pushing. I think BPD/Nxh applied to court and asked for me to pay his costs and said I was preventing contact. Not true, not proven, very ridiculous, but I think countering, given the circumstances of him being so unreasonable, is in itself, reasonable!

[momtara]

Maybe you can give the new lawyer a summary of what's happened so she/he doesn't sit and read everyhting. 

[Matt]

Don't let the firm "assign" a lawyer to your case.  They might assign their best, or their least busy... .

Ask to meet one or more of their qualified attorneys, and then tell them which you think would be best.  If they insist on someone else that will tell you how much they value you as a client.

[Forward2free]

Maybe you can give the new lawyer a summary of what's happened so she/he doesn't sit and read everyhting. 

Even a summary would be quite difficult given we have at least 150+ pages of affidavit material between me and BPD/Nxh and at least 7 psych reports which are all in excess of 10 pages each.

It should be the same barrister, so no need to rebrief her, but the solicitor will still need to come up to speed to support the barrister properly at court.

[Forward2free]

Don't let the firm "assign" a lawyer to your case.  They might assign their best, or their least busy... .

Ask to meet one or more of their qualified attorneys, and then tell them which you think would be best.  If they insist on someone else that will tell you how much they value you as a client.

Thanks Matt, I really must get better at asserting myself and this is an excellent cautionary suggestion. I have emailed the firm to make sure it's in writing to say I want to meet with any proposed lawyer first. Thank you!

[Forward2free]

I was Googling sole custody and high conflict and came across a Canadian blog that had actual case file attached. It makes for excellent reading, both on the side of the disordered vs non-disordered parent, but also the opinion of the court and ruling.

www.santosfamilylaw.com/family-law-review/2013/3/7/7hk6wpiv8cw5p1hnf7lozkrrsadcpv

[Ishenuts]

Kormilda - Reading the blog from that court case makes me wish I lived in Canada! They seem to recognize PD behavior, and act on it!

My exH exhibits many of the same behaviors as the father in the blog. But in the state we live in (here in the US), 50/50 custody is the preferred custody arrangement. There is little regard for the behavior of the parents. I find it very difficult to co-parent with my uNPDexH. There is no compromise, veiled threats to financially "ruin" me, covert manipulation and alienation of the children, etc.  All of this was evident to the GAL and the lawyers involved at the time of the divorce, but nothing was done about it. Now, to change the custody orders would be almost impossible. So the children, and I, are stuck with it.

[livednlearned]

I was Googling sole custody and high conflict and came across a Canadian blog that had actual case file attached. It makes for excellent reading, both on the side of the disordered vs non-disordered parent, but also the opinion of the court and ruling.

www.santosfamilylaw.com/family-law-review/2013/3/7/7hk6wpiv8cw5p1hnf7lozkrrsadcpv

Thanks for linking to it -- fascinating. There were parts of the father's evidence that read almost exactly like the psychiatric evaluation that N/BPDx had done. Clearly this judge *gets* PDs, or at the very least, the disordered logic and lack of empathy that can raise flags in court.

This should be recommended reading, up there with Splitting and Divorce Poison!

[momtara]

Sometimes, though, these guys are good at hiding it in court.

And this father still gets an entire month in the summer with the kids.  Ugh.

[livednlearned]

Sometimes, though, these guys are good at hiding it in court.

And this father still gets an entire month in the summer with the kids.  Ugh.

Yeah, although he sounds like the type of dad who won't want to spend an entire month with them.

It also sounds like the mother didn't know or wasn't encouraged to ask for more changes to the visitation schedule. Maybe she did after receiving the judge's ruling.

[Matt]

That case is good reading - thanks Kormilda!

But it's only one case!  There are hundreds discussed on this board - kind of messy and hard to search for anything specific, but tons of good experiences shared here.

Unfortunately we can't assume that every judge will be as insightful as the one in that Canadian case.  And the process works differently in different places.  So we need to find out how things work where we live, and put as much hard evidence in front of the court as possible, to show what we think would be the best custody arrangements.

A huge theme in that ruling is probably important in all our cases:  Keep the focus on what's best for the kids, not which parent is "right".  Keeping that in mind will surely serve us all well... .

[Forward2free]

It's true - every judge is different, circumstances are different, people are different, countries are different. No matter how hard I look, I'll never find one like mine and the outcome will most likely be different. It's nice to feel good about someone else's win though :-)

My transitional lawyer told me on the phone that he has some narcissism in his personality too. The fact he pointed it out is good - self awareness! What I didn't know or suspect, is the approach with BPD/Nxh lawyer. He is direct, means business, is not nice for the sake of it and completely to the point.

BPD/Nxh will be shocked at hearing a no from me about the concert and asking for the tickets so the kids won't be disappointed. He didn't even reference BPD/Nxh's letter about taking me to court, just said that:

In relation to the One Direction and Taylor Swift concert tickets, the children are very much excited and looking forward to going to these concerts.  Given the current arrangements for the care of the children and in particular, the time that they spend with your client, it is proposed that your client provide all of the tickets (adult and for the children) to my client (through your office to my office) so that my client can take the children to the concerts so as to not disappoint them. Clearly, your client is not in a position to take the children to the concerts.

Should your client refuse to provide the tickets to my client and allow the children to go to the concerts (after telling them that he has the tickets for them and they being excited to go), your client’s conduct will be brought to the Court’s attention and the Court will be asked to draw inferences and conclusions from it.  It is hoped that that is not necessary and that your client will simply hand over the tickets to my client who can take the children who expect to go to the concerts.

[ForeverDad]

  About time someone called it like it is.

Be aware too that there is more than a grain of truth to 'distance makes the heart grow fonder' - well, if you squint real hard.  What I mean is that there has been time and distance and so you're not experiencing the full force of his behaviors.  Generally, the closer you are, the worse the behaviors.  Ex is behaving better than he did when he was in the middle of your lives without an authority to curb his actions.  Not because he's better but because of distance and passage of time under the court's orders.  However that could be set back if the official distance is reduced by the court., he is still disordered after all.

[Forward2free]

 About time someone called it like it is.

It was so damn good to see it in writing! I always wondered if my lawyer was being a bit soft and tip toeing around with the other side's lawyer - after 4 years they talked a lot!

Be aware too that there is more than a grain of truth to 'distance makes the heart grow fonder' - well, if you squint real hard.  What I mean is that there has been time and distance and so you're not experiencing the full force of his behaviors.  Generally, the closer you are, the worse the behaviors.  Ex is behaving better than he did when he was in the middle of your lives without an authority to curb his actions.  Not because he's better but because of distance and passage of time under the court's orders.  However that could be set back if the official distance is reduced by the court., he is still disordered after all.

My worst fear would be realised! I keep dreaming of happily ever after and no disruption to our new life and hoping that he improves in his 40's or my second less-favoured option, he messes up someone else's life instead of mine and our kids. But, deep down I know that you're right and when he does get his much anticipated extra time with the kids and real life kicks in, they'll lose their always adoring glows and happy to see him faces. He'll have more of an insight into my life and new boyfriend and I wonder how he'll cope with that.

It's not that there wont be great times for the kids too, but I know what the kids are like after school on a Friday when they are tired and worn out. He wants them through till Sunday night too, and I want them home at 7pm, in line with the family report writer's recommendation. I think 3 nights in a row will test them all too much. And granted, it's going to take some years before they are up at this new arrangement, but he honestly believes he can handle it. I know he can't. I saw him get stressed over the most simple things like the kids asking for his time and attention when he wanted to check his iphone, which was always more important. I remember how angrily he reacted and I know it happened so frequently that he would grab the keys and leave for his girlfriends house.

His current girlfriend is going to feel the pressure too and I am glad she's there for the kids now, but how long will that last when his true colours show?

[Forward2free]

BPD/Nxh is an entertainer and keeps his Facebook account public, of course. He's up to 65,000 followers on Twitter too and he can't help but parade himself, uncensored, to his adoring public. In fact, he takes a lot of things down quickly after helpful people pipe up to tell him he shouldn't have said xyz or shown a picture of abc.

Lately, he's been posting a lot of pictures at the casino and remarking that gambling is getting the better of him. I didn't notice much of it when we were together in the early days, but that was the venue of choice to take his girlfriends so they could watch him throw my money around and lavish them with gifts.

I wonder how much he'll be able to stay away once the kids are having overnights. It certainly seems to be taking it's hold, as is alcohol. He's posting pictures of early morning alcohol glazed eyes and brags about the amount of expensive champagne he's drinking. Alcohol too wasn't an issue when we were together.

Things are unraveling, hopefully and more obviously before the court case... .

[Forward2free]

BPD/Nxh is in fine form actually. The kids had a concert today and he attended - my parents saw him standing in the door at the back.

Here's what BPD/Nxh posted on twitter:

Just saw my babies in their first ever stage production. Half way through they both marked me in the crowd and it quickly became evident that nothing else in the room mattered but Daddy. Priceless!

Commented on by his girlfriend:

Their reaction to seeing you has made my week. No, my year they absolutely adore their Dad. And so they should. He's a pretty awesome guy

Can she not see that that comment was all about him? How they supposedly reacted to him? They haven't seen him in 10 days and he didn't tell them he was going, so they would have been excited. He didn't compliment them at all on their hard work or a great show, just his comments from his adoring fans... . our DD8 and DS6  

[livednlearned]

BPD/Nxh is in fine form actually. The kids had a concert today and he attended - my parents saw him standing in the door at the back.

Here's what BPD/Nxh posted on twitter:

Just saw my babies in their first ever stage production. Half way through they both marked me in the crowd and it quickly became evident that nothing else in the room mattered but Daddy. Priceless!

Commented on by his girlfriend:

Their reaction to seeing you has made my week. No, my year they absolutely adore their Dad. And so they should. He's a pretty awesome guy

Can she not see that that comment was all about him? How they supposedly reacted to him? They haven't seen him in 10 days and he didn't tell them he was going, so they would have been excited. He didn't compliment them at all on their hard work or a great show, just his comments from his adoring fans... . our DD8 and DS6  

My ex did the same thing -- for a while, I would send him photos of things S12 was doing. And then N/BPDx would put those pics on FB and somehow make it about N/BPDx. What's worse, N/BPDx has a very witty sense of humor and people think he's hilarious. So he would make funny comments that made him appear like a doting, involved, loving dad, make some funny comments, and get a ton of narcissistic supply.

So I stopped sending photos. Slow learner 

[Forward2free]

BPD/Nxh is in fine form actually. The kids had a concert today and he attended - my parents saw him standing in the door at the back.

Here's what BPD/Nxh posted on twitter:

Just saw my babies in their first ever stage production. Half way through they both marked me in the crowd and it quickly became evident that nothing else in the room mattered but Daddy. Priceless!

Commented on by his girlfriend:

Their reaction to seeing you has made my week. No, my year they absolutely adore their Dad. And so they should. He's a pretty awesome guy

Can she not see that that comment was all about him? How they supposedly reacted to him? They haven't seen him in 10 days and he didn't tell them he was going, so they would have been excited. He didn't compliment them at all on their hard work or a great show, just his comments from his adoring fans... . our DD8 and DS6  

My ex did the same thing -- for a while, I would send him photos of things S12 was doing. And then N/BPDx would put those pics on FB and somehow make it about N/BPDx. What's worse, N/BPDx has a very witty sense of humor and people think he's hilarious. So he would make funny comments that made him appear like a doting, involved, loving dad, make some funny comments, and get a ton of narcissistic supply.

So I stopped sending photos. Slow learner 

Agreed. It is all about appearing to be the world's greatest dad and positioning himself in the way he wishes to be seen. It's sickening to think that some people actually eat that information up and find it amusing and gorgeous. 

[ForeverDad]

It is all about appearing to be the world's greatest dad and positioning himself in the way he wishes to be seen. It's sickening to think that some people actually eat that information up and find it amusing and gorgeous. 

Why sickening for us?  Because we know the real story behind the scenes and words.  To most people - those not aware of the background and extensive history, those not experienced to look deeper - it seems innocent pride.  But us knowing what's behind the surface words and knowing how slickly the public-face manipulation was done, yes that's sickening.

[Forward2free]

Surprised, not, to receive a letter on Tuesday stating that BPD/Nxh is "most disappointed" that [Kormilda] has now decided not to allow him to sped this time with the children, despite initially agreeing with this arrangement on the basis that time is swapped to make up for [Kormilda's] time lost.

Hmmm, he goes on to say the tickets were purchased by his brother with a cost of $3000 as a gift to allow the children to spend time with their dad. Baloney! BPD/Nxh has danced around for 6 months getting the children excited about the concerts and stating that he bought them.   including bragging on his Facebook about being such an awesome dad... .

He also said he didn't tell the children and that they found the tickets when they opened a Fed-ex envelope "without his knowledge or consent" - blaming the children! DD8 told me that BPD/Nxh's gifrlfriend handed her the envelope and told her to peek inside. It was a total set up in true BPD/N dramatic style!

He's accused me of not having the children's best at heart and so he is not agreeable to handing the concert tickets over to me.

I don't care for One Direction or Taylor Swift and I'd rather not attend thank you very much. It looks like he is setting up a fall for me to be the bad guy. Maybe the tickets are not even real?

I have a new lawyer with a background in domestic violence and high conflict cases involving children. Before practicing she worked in a contact centre and knows cluster B pd's well. Such a blessing. Same firm, she's new and they assigned her to me. Seems like I won't need to move on afterall.

So, do I tell BPD/Nxh that

A. he can take the kids anyway and see you in court?

B. cannot take the kids, see you in court?

C. sign the access offer and you can take the kids to the concert?

My stumbling block, does letting them go give him a win? Will that be good or bad for me in court? Should I go to court and fight against the family report recommendation and go for less time?

He is certainly not being treated and I do not see any improvement in his ability to negotiate or put the kids first. My new L says he lacks insight and the court will frown upon it.

 I'm so confused!

[livednlearned]

So, do I tell BPD/Nxh that

A. he can take the kids anyway and see you in court?

B. cannot take the kids, see you in court?

C. sign the access offer and you can take the kids to the concert?

I would say B, even though I know how tough it would be.

If I'm understanding your circumstances correctly, he is asking for more time than the current order provides? You know that this experience will be trying for everyone involved, and that he needs to work up to something like this.

The tough part is telling the kids, but obviously he did this by design, knowing he would put you in this situation.

What would it be like if you explained to the kids that their dad did not follow the rules, and that because of that, they aren't able to go to the concert with him. You understand how hard it is, and will work them to figure out another concert or event of their choosing, but it has to be decided in the correct way.