What is the worst that could happen?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

We have been going back and forth for several months with BPDex regarding taking child to therapy.  She desperately needs to see someone.  BPDex will only agree to DV specialists at the shelter she tried to go to when she started her whole campaign of "I am a victim of abuse" a few years ago.  Child needs someone who specializes in dealing with children who have two houses, the stress of having a PD parent, etc.  Last night child confessed that mom spanks her a lot and that she tells her there are a lot of things she is told that she is not allowed to tell us.  She is showing so many signs of the stress of high conflict split.

BPDex informed us last eve that she is too busy to deal with this issue anymore and will not agree to anyone and that she will look into again in a few months when she can re-focus.

The temporary parenting plan says they have 50/50 on all medical decisions.  From what I have been reading is that if you are in contempt of court, it could be cause for a modification of the parenting plan, but they are technically already in the modification process. 

They are having an eval right now, but court is not until Oct.

If dad just took her to a child therapist without waiting for mom to say yes, and made all of the info available, what is the very worst that could happen?  At this point, with all of the signs of stress the child is showing, it seems like it is getting to be an emergency.

Thoughts?

[hell0kitty]

We have been going back and forth for several months with BPDex regarding taking child to therapy.  She desperately needs to see someone.  BPDex will only agree to DV specialists at the shelter she tried to go to when she started her whole campaign of "I am a victim of abuse" a few years ago.  Child needs someone who specializes in dealing with children who have two houses, the stress of having a PD parent, etc.  Last night child confessed that mom spanks her a lot and that she tells her there are a lot of things she is told that she is not allowed to tell us.  She is showing so many signs of the stress of high conflict split.

BPDex informed us last eve that she is too busy to deal with this issue anymore and will not agree to anyone and that she will look into again in a few months when she can re-focus.

The temporary parenting plan says they have 50/50 on all medical decisions.  From what I have been reading is that if you are in contempt of court, it could be cause for a modification of the parenting plan, but they are technically already in the modification process. 

They are having an eval right now, but court is not until Oct.

If dad just took her to a child therapist without waiting for mom to say yes, and made all of the info available, what is the very worst that could happen?  At this point, with all of the signs of stress the child is showing, it seems like it is getting to be an emergency.

Thoughts?

[ForeverDad]

Would the evaluator offer a comment or observation concerning the impact for just going ahead and starting with a counselor or therapist?

My lawyer told me that court loves therapy or counseling.  I don't know how your court will view it, but it may be a case of "easier to ask for forgiveness than permission".

One factor to consider is the child's stress, it's hard to imagine seeking professional care would get him into that much trouble.  On the other hand, expect bio-mother to claim child isn't stressed and doesn't need it.  So right now it's dad's observations versus mom's observations.  Having a professional give input can only help to break the logjam and get a professional's observations and judgment, IMO.

[hell0kitty]

We have several emails where mom states that child needs therapy.  Then we offered up several options of therapists who would be perfect, who are not connected to us in any way, who have great credentials and reviews, who are located very close to where mom lives, but mom flat refused them.  She only offers people at the DV shelter who will A: see child for free. B: Who will buy into "We have a history of DV"

At first mom was just saying she needed therapy due to Dad and I having a baby. But then a month later she met new BF got knocked up and is now married and due.  Now she is saying that daughter has had to deal with a "lifetime of DV between her parents" and that she will only agree to a DV therapist.

So, technically she has agreed to therapy in writing, but will not agree on a doctor. 

[hell0kitty]

We did mention it in the evaluation, but now we are just waiting.  Once that is over, you don't really have a dialog, you just wait for the report.

[Waddams]

I'd just take her to a therapist and get it started.  Let BPDex complain about it to the judge.

Try to use a Ph.D level therapist though - someone who can be recognized easily as an expert witness by the court.

[Free One]

I think you've given her a lot of time and options on this. It is something she has agreed to, but won't take action on. I feel you would be justified seeking therapy. However, if you think it would be better, you could email her something like:

Dear Ex,

I can understand how busy your schedule is right now. You have a lot on your plate at this time. However, you have agreed therapy would be beneficial for D. Here are the names of X number of local therapist, none of which any of us have a prior relationship. Please let us know which one you are comfortable with by X date.

From,

Dad

I would only give her a week or two at most to decide. Then, if she doesn't, pick a T, make an appt and notify her of the date and time.

[ForeverDad]

The problem with sending an email is that it has already been attempted "but mom flat refused them".  I wouldn't retry what has already failed.

I'd just proceed with waddams' approach.  You already know you'll never get cooperation.  And I'd hesitate to even inform her of your choice and a pending appointment, I'd inform her afterward and at that time suggest she make her own appointment to bring the child.  Advance notice will more than likely give her opportunity to sabotage your initial appointment in any number of ways.  (And I'd not inform the child too soon either in case she would visit or have a phone conversation with her mother before the appointment comes around.  You don't want D to feel she has more secrets to keep from whichever parent.  In my case, my son is conditioned to think nothing unusual of being virtually interrogated by his mother.)

I don't see any benefit to both parents attending together unless that is what the therapist wants.

Depending on what sort of evaluation is currently in progress, you probably should inform the evaluator if not shortly beforehand then certainly soon afterward.  Both professionals can then watch the unreasonable ranting and raging by the ex for themselves.

[Waddams]

My opinion is sometimes a child needs something, but an uncooperative ex- is being obstructive, and using things in court orders to do it.  Those things in the court orders were not intended to be used to deny something a child has a bonafide need for.  I've got no problem saying to a judge "I'm sorry, I know I technically disobeyed the order, but my child needed this, and there is no question of that.  The welfare of my child comes first, and I acted as my child needed me to."

As long as you can demonstrate a real need for the child, I don't think any judge would fault you.  No honest judge that is.  And even if I knew the judge would, if it was something my child needed me to do, I'd do it anyway.  If nothing else, my child will know he comes first, and always will, regardless of what it costs me.

[hell0kitty]

We actually already sent her an email almost word for word, with options and a cut off date.  That is how we got the current answer.  I guess I was under the impression that therapists won't see a child without first checking with both parents.  Have not done this before.

If we were to go ahead, we cannot tell mom ahead of time. We brought the child to a doc recently for a cold she could not shake.  Mom got a reminder call from the doc and blew the whole thing out of proportion. Actually had the doc kind of afraid to even see the child.  Forced her to call immediately after the appt and fill her in because she claimed "they had a history of DV and he is not to contact her etc"  It was a weird uncomfortable mess.

The parenting plan that the judge made temporary pending this eval has them listed as 50/50 on all decision making.  I guess we interpreted that as he would be violating the order if he picked a doctor.

I think you are right, she needs this, it is the right thing to do, and mom will put it off forever.

But does that go both ways?  If we go forward with this, will she just go frwd with dragging her to DV support?  That is something we do NOT want.

[Waddams]

You can't control what she does.  You can start with a qualified therapist, make the appointment and take the child.  During intake just explain that the child is having a lot of stress from current situation and leave it at that.  Don't try to fill in the T with all the history and details.  Let the T work with the child and run the gauntlet with BPDex on her own.  Just be honest with the T that you want to focus on helping the child and aren't going to go into the gory details of issues between the parents to start with.  Stay focused on the child.

If mom starts with the DV stuff, bring it up in court and w/ the evaluators. 

Do you and your SO have your own T to help you muddle through this?  When I was in the midst of the crazy, my T was a gigantic help to me.

[livednlearned]

The therapist who works with my son would not agree to work with us until we signed a waiver saying she would never be called to testify in court.

Advantage: your child has a truly confidential ally in this mess. Entirely therapeutic relationship based on trust.

Disadvantage: the therapist will not testify in court, which could help you.

I agree with waddams and FD that there is probably very little backlash from a court if you went ahead and got a T for your child. But as you point out, some Ts won't work with your child if both parents don't agree.

[Ishenuts]

When we were considering a therapist for our children, she require a meeting with both my uNPDexH and me before she would see them. Unfortunately, my ex didn't like her questions/comments to him (she saw through his motives to try to alienate the children) so he has refused to have a follow-up session with her because his schedule is so busy... . I'm trying to determine if this is contempt... .

[Forward2free]

My lawyer offered me another view when I asked if I should put the kids in therapy if things start going awry. She said that it could look as though I am trying to alienate BPD/Nxh and be played in court that way which would backfire against me.

Can you get a referral from a school counsellor or a general doctor so that you are seen to be escalating in the child's best interests based on a professional recommendation, not from your own justification?

It's already messy and with BPDex's contact with DV centres, it could be easily twisted from her legal team. The bigger picture is just as important as helping the child.

[papawapa]

Your first duty is to your kids. If you feel your child/ren need therapy then get them started. It will work itself out with the court in the end.

[scraps66]

I had similar issues.  I tried going the route of full consent and "asking" PDex for consent and permission to take our S8 to therapy.  First she agreed, then she didn't, then she said it wasn't time and to wait, then the office was too far to travle to, then it was we need to do this now, then she said she would consent to allow me to take him, but never singed the e-mailed consent forms.  This was after the court instructed her to "cooperate" and allow me to set up the therapy for S8.  At the same time, sensing something wrong, the master instructed us each to get a psychological evalaution.  I got mine, she didn't get hers.  Then, on one dyas notice she out of the blue says she's taking S8 to therapy, a social worker.  So we go, she's fully invovled and in control.  It was a waste fo time ahving her involved and the social worker she found was just not skilled enough to see her BS and the bad dynamic.  In the end, I stopped and S8 got no therapy.

So, the moral, if you can go ahead and get the child help without involving her, all the better.  What I did that was wrong was involve her.  Most Dr's will insist on full consent of both parents. In my state of PA, I think it's required regardless of custody.  But, you could also try the sly way.  When asked if you have custody of the child, you can say "yes."  In theory, during your 50% of the time, you do have custody, not full custody, but if they only ask about custody, and not full custody, you're not exactly lying.  I don't think anyone can fault a parent for getting credible help for a child.   

[livednlearned]

We have several emails where mom states that child needs therapy.  Then we offered up several options of therapists who would be perfect, who are not connected to us in any way, who have great credentials and reviews, who are located very close to where mom lives, but mom flat refused them. 

In my opinion, this suggests you can go ahead and find a therapist -- if you have emails with her consenting, that's enough. All you need is to show that she consented. If she isn't cooperative, that's a whole other story. Courts will understand.

Your task now is to find someone who is good, who will take you without both parents consenting. You may want to consider how to handle confidentiality with the therapist, too. I'm glad S12's T wanted nothing to do with court. She has focused entirely on what's best for S12, and that has made all the difference.

If you can find someone who know your D, and will make a referral, that's ideal. It shows that you were taking the advice of a third-party professional so BPDx cannot make it seem like you're alienating or whatever.