my son's behavior

[Ishenuts]

I'm reading these posts... . and getting very scared.

My exH is a nNPD. He lies ALL the time, with no remorse. He controls through intimidation. He is arrogant, critical, a bully, etc. And fortunately, he's my EX. We share custody of our b/g twins 50/50.

What is scaring me? Our DS11 is on the same path.  He lies about everything. He throws things when he doesn't get his way. He torments his twin sister (she exhibits no PD traits - a wonderful DD) He criticizes people/things. He swears. He accuses me of "yelling at him" when I'm talking in a normal voice. He's a very good athlete involved heavily in football, baseball and basketball - all with exH basking in his glory. My exH gives him decision making authority above and beyond what is appropriate, and over my decisions (exH & I have to make decisions equally, so he works on DS to agree with what exH wants, then says, ":)S really wants to do this so you have to let him".

My ex refuses to acknowledge our son's behavior. He says it's my poor parenting. I'm sure my DS doesn't swear or throw things at the ex's house (fear).   My T says it's a good thing that DS feels more comfortable being his true self when he's with me. BUT if his true self is that of a uNPD - what can I do? I don't want him to be like his father!

I've said I want DS in therapy. ExH is reluctant. He feels I should take parenting classes to be a better mother. ExH would never accept that he himself is an NPD. He is blameless, of course. And DS has said that if we make him go to a T he won't say a word!

Is there anything I can do to help him?  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mamachelle]

Hi Ishenuts,

I am a mom and stepmom. One of my SS10 has many BPD traits like his Bio Mom who has BPD as well. NPD is a slightly different animal-- but the traits are similar.

A great book for dealing with kids behaviors like your son's (throwing, swearing, 'selective' bad behavior etc) is:

Parenting a Child Who Has Intense Emotions: Dialectical Behavioral Therapy Skills to Help Your Child Regulate Emotional Outbursts and Aggressive Behaviors - Pat Harvey, ACSW, LCSW-C, and Jeanine Penzo, LICSW

Also, see this on Parental Alienation.

The complex issue of alienated children

How does your son act in school?

How does he handle frustration with homework and things that may be difficult for him?

At any rate, 11 is young-- but recognizing something is going on is a good thing and its important to take care of yourself as well. See this link on Boundaries to help with both your Son and your ExH:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

  mamachelle

[Ishenuts]

mamachelle - Thank you for moving this post.

I've ordered the book you recommended. It looks interesting.

My son is unmotivated, and doesn't like to be held accountable or responsible. He frequently says, "It's not my fault" about everything!

Fortunately for him, he's bright and a natural athlete. He doesn't do his homework willingly. It's a fight every day. If he doesn't readily understand a concept, he gets very frustrated, yelling, throwing things, etc. He doesn't like to work at sports. Practice to him is a "waste of time". My son does academically well in school. He is somewhat of a leader among his friends. He occasionally gets into minor trouble (acting out in class) but for the most part he is respectable toward teachers, etc. Because of his athletic prowess, he is somewhat of a BMOG. And he KNOWS how good he is (athletically) because he receives a lot of attention due to it from coaches, other parents, his father. I try to downplay it because I don't want him to be arrogant and conceited. I also know that right now he's a big fish in a little pond, and the competition will be ten fold when he enters high school, and I want to prepare him for that.

He doesn't like to be told what to do. And from talking to the parents of his friends, that's common behavior for 11 yo boys. But the difference is the aggressive way he reacts. I know he saw that aggression was his father's common reaction to things, also. He is very influenced by his father. I just want my son to be different.

Any help in that regard would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[qcarolr]

Maybe you can find some support for parents of difficult teens in your area -- and maybe this could lead to something your and our DS can do together, for 'your' benefit as a better mom. I have found getting a support network for myself has helped me be more consistent with my boundaries in my family.

qcr  

[angeldust1]

Dear Ishenuts,

Are you sure you weren't married to my ex husband?  My situation is exactly like yours. 

My pwBPD decided to go live with his Bipolar father,  and he was manipulated in every way possible to be used against me.  My daughter is a wonderful loving person,   and you would never believe they are even related.   My daughter decided to live with me and he,  with his father.  I feel it made some of the difference. 

Without giving  myself too much credit,  I must say that probably it would not have made much difference if he'd stayed with me.  I feel that this disorder our children have is inherent and not matter what or where they were raised the outcome would still be the same.  Of course I do believe environment plays a large role in how the personality traits manifest itself.   You must remember you son has a disorder that is not curable.  His symptoms are treatable,  but his disorder is not.  He lives in a world we know nothing about,  or can imagine. 

I am certainly not making excuses for your sons behavior,  but it may be an explanation.  If he is young enough to bring him to counseling you may try,  but ex will probably try to blame that as well on you.  I tried,  and like you,  it was all me. 

I want to give you some encouragement,  but the books Mamachelle recommended are very good, and will help you understand.  Sometimes it is helpful just to know you are not going nuts yourself,   my son swears,  lies for not reason what so ever,  even when truth will work.  takes no responsibility for his behavior and it is everyone but his fault. He is syndical about everyone and everything,  and used to control me by bullying.  I no longer will accept that behavior,  which is why we have no relationship. I realize these are not comforting words,  and I wish I could say something to help you,  but the most important thing you need to know  is that this is not your fault,  it is no ones fault.  It is a disorder.   Your ex will probably always blame you because he most likely is BPD or some form of it as well,  or has some traits of it.   

My son is 40 yrs old,  he is self sufficient, has a good job nice home, cars etc.  but has never had a good relationship with a woman.  He is in and out of relationships and has had 2 failed marriages.  His first lasted 12 yrs to a wonderful girl,  his second less that 2 weeks,  after spending $10,000 on a wedding.  This shows the impulsiveness of their behavior.  How could he not know 2 weeks before the wedding.

Now,  your son is young,  you may be able to get him into therapy and help him.  I didn't know my son was BPD until  less than 2 yrs ago. It was too late to help or intervene,  I just thought he was nuts or I was.  I blamed myself for poor mothering for far too many years.  Now I know it was not!.  It is comforting to know you aren't in anyway to blame for this irrational behavior.  If you are rational,  and you certainly sound like you are,  you will never ever understand this type of behavior.  IT IS IRRATIONAL!

[mamachelle]

Ishenuts,

I actually have 3 emotionally dysregulated kids when you get right down to it.   

We have had to do some pretty intensive interventions to get real progress. Including therapists, neuropsychologist eval, behavior therapy, psychiatrist and regular contact with the school. We involved SS10 younger brother SS9 as the two of them had very intense sibling issues. SS9 is more like your son in many ways as he is good looking and popular and school comes easy and some fighting on the playground. SS10 and my SS15 are on the autism spectrum and have trouble with friends and don't like to make waves at school. SS15 is a sweet kid. SS10 can be very mean and is our most difficult in so many ways. He struggles very hard with his internal rollercoaster and because he has such emotional lability one of the best things we did was get him on a mood stabilizer. I never believed in psychiatric drugs --even though my dad is a psychiatrist-- until the past couple years . I am not suggesting you will ever go there with your S11 but it has made a huge difference in my SS10's ability to cope and regulate and not rage over the smallest things at home.

We also have my SS almost 90% of the time now so we can be fairly consistent but SS10 is enmeshed at some deep level with his BPDBioMom and he reacts very much like she does and often says things like "I'm just emotional. Don't you know that" to excuse his behavior. He also blames others all the time, lies and hides and blah blah blah-- very much like BioMom.

The best concrete thing we did is introduce a lot of structure and created rules. We had a reward system but my two SS now 9 and 10 have kind of grown out of it.

We have a TV chart for TV times. The chart also serves as defacto chart for other kid to have computer time. Whoever has TV time does not get to trade it or make it up if they miss it. WHoever has the TV has the remote and the couch. If the remote is thrown then they lose their next block of time.

Aggression, violence, property destruction = time outs or other type of quieting punishment.

We keep punishment small and managable not huge like "you lose the wii for the next month!" which we could never enforce.

We have a chore chart.

We also try to avoid triggers like difficulty with homework by working with the teachers to be aware of big assignments and setting aside times for doing it.

You can not change everything at once but starting small and working with establishing limits is good. Following through is important.

You will encounter 'extinction bursts' but you just need to breathe and work through it.

The book "Intense emotions" is great. I think also consulting with a therapist trained with ODD (op defiant) type behavior might be good to get some suggestions for you.

 

mamachelle

[peaceplease]

Isshenuts,

It is so hard, when you don't have the other parent on the same page with you.  Have you received or in any type of counseling regarding your ds?

My exh was not involved in my kids lives much.  I guess that I should be grateful on that note.  Of course, if he was stable, that would be a different story.  It is so awesome when a couple can co-parent even when they are not together.  But, that would require two stable parents.

You have received some great suggestions.  My uBPDd is 29.  And, I have a ds, that I believe appear more NPD.  He has so many similar traits of his father.  And, I raised him!  

If you haven't done so, I would recommend some professional help with your son.  Even, if you just go for therapy to learn how to parent a child with this disorder.  And, to help you figure it out with an ex with BPD, that is not supportive.  You are in a tough position.  

peaceplease

[vivekananda]

I've said I want DS in therapy. ExH is reluctant. He feels I should take parenting classes to be a better mother.

Here's your chance! I would say yes. I need parenting classes. This is what I want... . (and in the interests of your son you will of course pay!)

Then find someway for you and your ds to get some basic skills under your belt. I would really carefully research the possibilities and see if I could wrangle a good result. Do you think that could be possible?

Ishenuts, I can see you would be fearful for your son and the future if he is NPD, but given the 'plasticity' of the brain and that he is yet to reach his teen years, this is a really good chance for him. You see, as I understand it, when children reach their early teens, their brain begins a 10 years exercise in culling. The neural pathways that are used often are reinforced and those that are used as much, are culled away. Brain scans show us with BPD (and presumably NPD) that there are weaker neural pathway between the emotion part of the brain (the amygdala) and the logic part of the brain (the prefrontal cortex). As parents we would want to build those neural pathways so they don't get culled away.

If you were able to perhaps consider neurofeedback (this is done by a neurologist not a psychologist) for your son and even yourself... . then maybe you could really be proactive. Neurofeedback is where they do a scan and measure it against what is considered 'normal' and design a program to 'rewire' the brain to build up the important areas that need strengthening. It has been shown to be successful with many disorders including adhd, aspergers and others - the evidence is not in yet for BPD let alone NPD - but there is anecdotal evidence that it helps immensely.

In the meantime, can I suggest you purchase the book: "I don't have to make everything all better" by G & J Lundberg. It is a parenting book and it is excellent. It is about validation which is one of our two tools we use here to help us in our relationships with our children.

Isshenuts, please stay in touch and let me know if this helps, ok?

Vivek    

ps I agree with the others that a T for yourself is a good idea - again carefully research what is available, I would suggest   

[angeldust1]

I remember my dear mother used to say that the most important job in the world was to raise children,  and there is no book on how to do it.  We all do the best we can,  and hope for the best.  You are doing the best you know how,   and no one can expect more from you.  Parenting is hard,  lets face it,  and with a BPD,  everything is especially hard,  especially the irrational behavior.

Give yourself a pat on the back and know you are in the right place here.  It is warm and fuzzy here,  we all understand.  We all wish we could give you a big hug,   to let you know you are loved.

[Ishenuts]

Thank you all for your helpful advice.

This would be so much easier if:

- my exH was on the same page,

- he wasn't using my son's behavior to blame me, and say it's because of my parenting,

- I saw my DS more than 50% of the time (2 days one week, 5 days the next)

- exH wasn't contributing to the behavior by covertly manipulating DS, and trying to alienate him from me

- my DS didn't fear his father and would show similar behavior at exH's house

[Ishenuts]

(sorry - hit reply by mistake... . wasn't finished)

I have a wonderful T. We do talk about parenting issues, but mostly the issues with exH. Although, a lot of the issues with exH affect the children, too.

It will be very difficult to get my DS into therapy. ExH (and relays this thought to DS) doesn't think he "needs" it. But more important to the 2 of them, DS is too involved in sports, and too important to the teams he is on (remember - NPD in training)! No free time. It would never be a priority! And it would just be another big fight, with no support for me.

So, I'm going to have to try to do as much as I can on my own. Any other books, ideas, prayers, would be very appreciated!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

Prayers definitely... . you're on the list 

Ideas - well I have lots but it's an ongoing process you are now on... . and the learning goes on for us all here.

What is the relationship between BPD and narcissism (NPD)?

So, you can't change your exh, your can't change your son - but you can change yourself! That's my first idea.

There are two tools that we use to help us develop our relationships with our BPD children (I know you think it's NPD - and you would know best, but I can only speak for BPD, so forgive me, but I refer to BPD throughout - I believe the similarities are sufficient for what I have to say). The tools are Validation and Values Based Boundaries.

mamchelle gave you a link to a good introduction to values based boundaries. A book that is highly recommended is "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend. It is a self help manual and doesn't refer specifically to BPD etc.

Validation is a powerful tool when we learn how to use it. Here is a link to an excellent video on validation. It goes for about 51 mins and you should watch it with a pen in your hand to jot down the important bits to help you remember.

Understanding Validation in Families - Alan E. Fruzzetti, PhD

A book on validation that is also highly recommended is "I don't have to make everything all better" G & J Lundberg. This is also a self help manual and not specifically for pw BPD or NPD.

The thing about these tools Ishenuts, is that they cause us to change our behaviour, if we apply them well and begin to delve into the depths of the underlying concepts, they also help us change they way we think. They help us to become more empathetic, more mindful, more understanding and less negative. We actually help ourselves feel better and hopefully develop better relationships with those we love especially and those with BPD.

The best learning is to be found here on the boards where we can engage in discussion about our individual situations and find support and guidance from those who understand how it feels.

sending you Cheers,

Vivek      

[mamachelle]

Ishenuts,

I would see if your insurance would cover a home visit by a social worker or behavior therapist to work with both you and your twins. You might have a larger co-pay but by having someone come in-- scheduled on your parenting time you avoid all the Dad protests. Also, it is an authority figure brought in. He or she can help you develop some goals for the kids. By working with all 3 of you... . you should see some results. Also, S11 will be answerable for his behavior to himself and an outsider and can't blame you.

Hang in there.   

mamachelle