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mcdo
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« on: July 31, 2013, 12:44:11 PM »

Our entire family has been estranged from our oldest son and his wife for 3 years.  This is his second wife and they have one daughter.  He also had a daughter with his first wife.  Our family has a positive relationship with her and this is also the only way we get to see our oldest GD is from that relationship. 

We haven't seen our youngest GD since she was 2 at her birthday.  We got invited at the last minute and were happy that we would get to see our son and his family.  This was an extremely stressed visit as our son was visibly uncomfortable and seemed like all conversations were forced. His wife completely ignored all of us. They had invited as well very good friends with their children that we have known since they were all in grade school. They treated us more respectful but still visibly forced behaviors.

This all started after our son and girlfriend at the time had a baby (unplanned) and she accused me of showing more love, sympathy and support to our daughter and her family.  Our daughter lived with us after having an unplanned pregnancy at a young age and living with us for 2 years.  Our DL basically told me in over a dozen emails what a shallow person I am and she would not allow me to have any relationship with her daughter as it would be detrimental to our GD health and well being.  She also demanded that I stop any relationship that I have with his ex-wife.  My relationship with the ex is respectful in nature and nothing more.  Our family understands the importance for our oldest GD to know that we respect her Mother. In addition I work with her and have for the past 10 years.   

Shortly after the birth of their baby I started getting emails with accusations that I was shallow and showing different affections for my daughter and family versus my affections for her, our oldest son and their kids. It is important to note that none of the accusations came or has ever come from our son, she stated that he feels the same way and she is speaking on his behalf.  They got married and didn’t invite any family only their close friends with their two kids. they posted two days prior on face book that they were engaged and everyone thought we would be planning a wedding.  After the weekend we learned of their marriage.  This was not that big of deal to us it would have been accepted a little easier if they hadn’t posted the engagement on face book leading us to believe we would be planning a wedding.  It has been a very difficult emotional rollercoaster for our family as we value family and spend so much time together living close to each other.   It is so sad for all of us as the time goes by and we continue missing the sharing of milestone life events. 

We attempted counseling as this is what our son and wife asked from us – the end result wasn’t positive as we had hoped.  We had two sessions and his wife sent another email to me stating that as long as I continued to have any relationship with the ex wife she was not willing to continue to rebuild our relationship as it was too hurtful for her that I was choosing the ex over her.  The counselor called both our son and his wife explaining that it is unacceptable behavior to tell anyone who they can and cannot have a relationship.  We had one more session with our son and we were supposed to start meeting weekly for an hour to start rebuilding first with him as suggested by our counselor.  Every Monday his Dad or I would call to schedule our meeting and he was unable to meet this commitment stating that he just couldn’t do it and that he wasn’t ready.  After a month of calls we told him that we would wait as long as it takes for him to be ready.  This is where we remain today a year later – tragically estranged.   

As a family we remain close with our middle son and daughter and have a very positive and respectful relationship.  We see each other several times a week and as scheduling permits on weekends for dinner.  As parents we feel fortunate to have such positive relationships with our adult kids; this is how it has always been with our family and used to be with our oldest son and his wife – My relationship with her prior to the baby was fairly good – I do recall that at times with her I felt like I as walking on egg shells but for the most part it was a positive relationship.  We would meet for dinner and drinks often and she introduced me to many of her friends that would meet with us as well.

To all if you haven’t; read the book “walking on egg shells” and look out after yourself and your well being.  In addition I continue to acknowledge with cards their birthdays, holidays etc…even though they come back unopened with “RETURN TO SENDER”   

I would like to know if anyone has any advice on how to help children through these types of family issues. We are not acting as “good teachers” to our children when they have cousins that can’t attend each others special days and sporting events and it is heart breaking and so sad that these actions are and will continue to affect them as they grow up.  I keep hearing all the children in my head asking “but why”?  And as I search for answers nothing I come up seems to suffice.

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schwing
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 02:05:46 PM »

Hi Mcdo and  Welcome

Our entire family has been estranged from our oldest son and his wife for 3 years.  This is his second wife and they have one daughter.  He also had a daughter with his first wife.  Our family has a positive relationship with her and this is also the only way we get to see our oldest GD is from that relationship.  

We haven't seen our youngest GD since she was 2 at her birthday.  We got invited at the last minute and were happy that we would get to see our son and his family.  This was an extremely stressed visit as our son was visibly uncomfortable and seemed like all conversations were forced. His wife completely ignored all of us. They had invited as well very good friends with their children that we have known since they were all in grade school. They treated us more respectful but still visibly forced behaviors.

This all started after our son and girlfriend at the time had a baby (unplanned) and she accused me of showing more love, sympathy and support to our daughter and her family.  Our daughter lived with us after having an unplanned pregnancy at a young age and living with us for 2 years.  Our DL basically told me in over a dozen emails what a shallow person I am and she would not allow me to have any relationship with her daughter as it would be detrimental to our GD health and well being.  She also demanded that I stop any relationship that I have with his ex-wife.  My relationship with the ex is respectful in nature and nothing more.  Our family understands the importance for our oldest GD to know that we respect her Mother. In addition I work with her and have for the past 10 years.  

First of all, it might be helpful for you to understand the nature of your DiL's disorder and how it contributes to her behavior directed towards you and your family.  From the BPD perspective, they have a disordered fear of abandonment, such that they will imagine potential abandonment even if there is no real evidence for this.  So from your DiL's perspective, she is always paranoid that your son will "abandon" her and I imagine he spends most of his time "proving" to her that he is committed to her.

Moreover, she will see all other attachments to your son (including your family and his oldest daughter) as a potential source of competition and a possible "reason" why he might choose to "abandon" her.  And this is why your DiL refuses to treat your family in a polite and considerate fashion; she sees your family to be potential instigators which will lead to your son's future decision to "abandon" her, even though this is all only in her head.  So it is my guess that this is why your DiL continues to devalue you and your family.  Sadly I would also guess that she devalues your son and older GD for similar reasons (i.e., reasons purely in your DiL's head).

Your son is most likely very hesitant in his interactions with you and your family because of the potential backlash he will have to bare if his wife perceives him in any way to be disloyal to her (and she will regardless of his behavior).  It is up to him to come to the realization that he is married to someone who is mentally disordered, and he may be in great denial of this realization.

It has been a very difficult emotional rollercoaster for our family as we value family and spend so much time together living close to each other.   It is so sad for all of us as the time goes by and we continue missing the sharing of milestone life events.

I imagine you son is also torn for similar reasons.  He is trying to hold his family together, and yet his wife is so irrational and unreasonable only some of the times.  



We attempted counseling as this is what our son and wife asked from us – the end result wasn’t positive as we had hoped.  We had two sessions and his wife sent another email to me stating that as long as I continued to have any relationship with the ex wife she was not willing to continue to rebuild our relationship as it was too hurtful for her that I was choosing the ex over her.  The counselor called both our son and his wife explaining that it is unacceptable behavior to tell anyone who they can and cannot have a relationship.  We had one more session with our son and we were supposed to start meeting weekly for an hour to start rebuilding first with him as suggested by our counselor.  Every Monday his Dad or I would call to schedule our meeting and he was unable to meet this commitment stating that he just couldn’t do it and that he wasn’t ready.  After a month of calls we told him that we would wait as long as it takes for him to be ready.  This is where we remain today a year later – tragically estranged.

I think the ball is really in your son's court.  It seems to me that you have made yourself as available as possible to bridge the gap between you and your DiL.  It is up to him to accept the possible that she is being completely unreasonable and is possibly disordered.  I don't think he is ready to accept this possibility yet.  And it may not be a good idea for you to push this idea upon him before he is ready to consider it.

   

To all if you haven’t; read the book “walking on egg shells” and look out after yourself and your well being.  In addition I continue to acknowledge with cards their birthdays, holidays etc…even though they come back unopened with “RETURN TO SENDER”  

Sadly, I believe that when she marks your holiday cards "RETURN TO SENDERS" she also complains to your son that no one in your family bothers to send them holiday cards.  You might consider sending him correspondences that are disguised.  Perhaps by send them to his work place.  Or by putting them in a unmarked boxed and including the cards that have been marked "RETURN TO SENDER."  It is important that your son knows he is supported by his extended family because his wife is very likely telling him the contrary.

   

I would like to know if anyone has any advice on how to help children through these types of family issues. We are not acting as “good teachers” to our children when they have cousins that can’t attend each others special days and sporting events and it is heart breaking and so sad that these actions are and will continue to affect them as they grow up.  I keep hearing all the children in my head asking “but why”?  And as I search for answers nothing I come up seems to suffice.

This type of family issue is quite extraordinary.  It is in the same ballpark as having a family member who is an alcoholic or drug addict.  Your son doesn't realize it, but he is only enabling her dysfunctional behaviors.  When her venom isn't directed at you, then it is directed at him.  Until he accepts that her behavior is completely unjustified, he is committed to putting out the fires as they spring up.  For some people, they come to their realization after a few years.  For others, it takes longer.

I don't know how you could possibly do this without getting him into some kind of trouble with his wife, but if you could direct him to resources like "walking on eggshells" and this web site, it might help to thaw away some of his denial.


Best wishes,  Schwing
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cpatlew

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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 06:51:55 PM »

HI McDo,

I just read your thread and was taken back with such sadness. It is almost identical to my life. I have three grandchildren that I am denied access to. My DIL continually tells them that we don't love them and we love our daughter's more. Our son's personality is like a rollercoaster. When she isn't present(rare, she doesn't allow him anytime with us) he seems calmer but when she is his personality because angry, abusive and down right rotten.  She is like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. To some she seems like a sweet and kind person. But in reality she is evil, nasty and hurtful. She has deleted emails, thrown away cards and anything that shows we care. Slowly people are starting to receive that part of her. The ones that doubted us are finally getting an introduction. I know she has used multiple threats about him never seeing his kids. The hardest part is just waiting until he comes to the realization that her behavior isn't acceptable.

Know you aren't alone. We love our children but there are times we just can't fix the problem.

cpatlew
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