is this cruel and unusual punishment?

[Depression = 72% of members]

hello again,

to fill in:

after months of unbridled rage, my uBPD sister's children have left their home because they no longer felt safe with her.  their therapist instructed them not to go home until their mother's rage is under control and she has had a psych evaluation and a treatment plan is underway.

the twist in all this is that on top of the uPBD, she suffers from disabling chronic pain and she lost her husband last year.  for the first time is decades, she is all alone.  she is begging for her children back.  it is breaking my heart and i feel like i am doing the absolute wrong thing. 

the therapist has been very clear that the kids not return as it is not safe, and that anyone else she is abusing (ME) needs to also protect themselves.  my question is:  how does she get support while this is happening?

she has no real friends as she has isolated herself over the years and alienated her in-laws with her raging and verbal assaults.  her children and i have been her sole sources of support, but she has frightened and hurt us so badly, we are afraid to be around her.

i encouraged her to go to the hospital yesterday because she was so out of control and now she is accusing me of wanting her locked up.  i just wanted her to get support as soon as possible and she was threatening to leave the home, so i suggested she drive herself to the ER. 

she won't see the therapist she and her children were working with because she feels she has betrayed her, and she is going to start with another person later in the week but that person won't have all the background.

this is the hardest most hideous thing i have ever experienced.  i don't know what's right or wrong at this point.  i just feel so bad that she is hurting so deeply.  but the goal was to shock her into recognizing that she needs help ASAP and protect the kids.  she did admit (amongst the venom) that she knows she is in trouble.  this was a first.

i feel horrible and just want this to all go away.

[stymied]

hello again,

to fill in:

after months of unbridled rage, my uBPD sister's children have left their home because they no longer felt safe with her.  their therapist instructed them not to go home until their mother's rage is under control and she has had a psych evaluation and a treatment plan is underway.

the twist in all this is that on top of the uPBD, she suffers from disabling chronic pain and she lost her husband last year.  for the first time is decades, she is all alone.  she is begging for her children back.  it is breaking my heart and i feel like i am doing the absolute wrong thing. 

the therapist has been very clear that the kids not return as it is not safe, and that anyone else she is abusing (ME) needs to also protect themselves.  my question is:  how does she get support while this is happening?

she has no real friends as she has isolated herself over the years and alienated her in-laws with her raging and verbal assaults.  her children and i have been her sole sources of support, but she has frightened and hurt us so badly, we are afraid to be around her.

i encouraged her to go to the hospital yesterday because she was so out of control and now she is accusing me of wanting her locked up.  i just wanted her to get support as soon as possible and she was threatening to leave the home, so i suggested she drive herself to the ER. 

she won't see the therapist she and her children were working with because she feels she has betrayed her, and she is going to start with another person later in the week but that person won't have all the background.

this is the hardest most hideous thing i have ever experienced.  i don't know what's right or wrong at this point.  i just feel so bad that she is hurting so deeply.  but the goal was to shock her into recognizing that she needs help ASAP and protect the kids.  she did admit (amongst the venom) that she knows she is in trouble.  this was a first.

i feel horrible and just want this to all go away.

[CinnamonRadio]

Hi Stymied,

I'm very sorry to hear about the trauma that your family is going through, it sounds absolutely exhausting and horrible. 

I just want you to know as a grown daughter of a single mom with BPD, you are ABSOLUTELY doing the right thing.  As a victim of her abuse, I'm wondering if it is a bit hard for you to see past the FOG in this situation, which is understandable since it sounds like such a difficult situation.  It sounds as though you are very worried about her wellbeing, which is very commendable and kind, but I don't hear a lot of worry for yourself, which is just as important.  How are YOU doing?  Have you got any supports, like a therapist?

The number 1 most important things is the safety of her children.  That is more important than her mental health, more important than any guilt you might feel (though it is completely understandable), more important than how uncomfortable the situation is.  I don't know what the circumstances of T suggesting that the kids should be removed from her care are, but if T thinks they are not safe, likely they are not.  Your sister may feel very intense longing for them, but she could still be abusive and dangerous to them at the same time.

I'm now 28, about to be a mom myself.  I just want you to know that when I was 16, my mother began to exhibit especially dangerous behaviors.  A few family members offered to take me in, but being 16, I didn't want anything to do with it, so they left me alone.  I lived alone, or with mother, or with my then-boyfriend who was also pretty abusive to me.  I really, really wish someone would have been man/woman enough to step in and say "No, you don't have a choice, you are a minor, you need to be where you will be safe."  It would have saved me years and years of confusion and pain.  By the time I started to recover, around the age of 20, 21, I really began to feel resentful of my family for not having intervened.  They knew I wasn't safe, they knew my mom was ill, but they just felt too bad or too "meddling" to interfere.  Children need advocates, they need help.  They need someone to just deal with being uncomfortable and help them.

As for your sister, are there any in-patient supports in your community?  You can't force her to get help, but she might benefit from being in a structured program if she is willing to go. 

but the goal was to shock her into recognizing that she needs help ASAP and protect the kids

This may work, but it may not.  Remember that she is mentally ill, so she can't control her inappropriate behaviors to a large extent.  Even if she really wants her children back, she may not have enough self-control to behave in a way that is safe and appropriate for children.  It may not be realistic to expect her to have a sudden change in behavior because she feels distressed.  Being distressed might actually worsen her behavior.  Again, I really encourage you to ensure that you are safe and your nieces and/or nephews are safe and well. 

It sounds as though you're navigating this tough situation with a lot of compassion and courage.  She's very lucky to have you as a sister! 

[stymied]

oh goodness, jetsfan, you have no idea how much i needed your response. your input is incredibly helpful since you speak from personal experience.

i do have a therapist i am working with who is supporting me through this process and i had an appointment with her yesterday afternoon.  much of what she said mirrored your words.  her perspective is that of a professional, but also as a  survivor of a marriage to a BPD husband.

i know in my heart that the children's needs are paramount, and part of my being lost in the FOG is what got me into this position in the first place.  i am the type of person who tends to give of myself to my own detriment.  and like the rest of our family, i have been appeasing my sister for nearly 2 decades, afraid of the rage, doing whatever needs to be done to defuse it by putting out the million small fires that repeatedly cropped up over the years.  the source of the fires was never addressed and everyone's enabling behavior only gave it more fuel.  now we are in the midst of the firestorm and running for cover.

i have a voicemail from my therapist giving me permission to take care of myself that i keep listening to, and i will print out your reply and re-read it as needed to help reinforce that.

i hope and pray she is able to find her way clear to get the help she needs. 

i am so grateful for this discussion board.  i swear, i felt like we were the only people on earth who had this going on in their families.  and though i am sorry for everyone who has to deal with this, i am so relieved to have access to the support here.


stymied

[CinnamonRadio]

Hi Stymied,

So glad to hear you have a supportive therapist!  It is so important to have one that truly understands BPD and its 'lovely' side-effects. 

I really hope that you're not feeling guilty for being caught in the FOG.  Give yourself a pat on the back, it sounds like you've made a ton of good moves and good choices already. 

I'm so glad to hear that my reply was helpful to you!  This board has helped me so many times, so it is great to pay it forward!  Keep working on you, you're doing great!

-Jets 

[Heartbroken Daughter]

Hi Stymied,

I know much of what I'm about to say is what you've already heard but I also know how important re-inforcement is. Especially with BPD because anyone suffering with BPD almost twists reality and you reach a point where you start to question your own sanity sometimes. I just wanted to say you are most definately not alone and as I read your story my heart goes out to you and your sisters children having to battle a loved one's mental illness isn't something I would wish on my worst enemy. Don't underestimate the strength your showing by sticking by her children and choosing to battle through this pain instead of just turning the other way and leaving them to deal with this on their own.

I'm also a child of a single mother with BPD and you are absolutely are doing the right thing as much as it hurts. Her children will have a chance to face the pain she's inflicted on them now and move on to have a life of their own free from the guilt and pain that a mother with BPD can inflict on a child well into adulthood. I know it's a harsh statement but the truth is she may never accept the fact that she needs help and if that happens just remember that you did the right thing even when it doesn't feel like it. What your doing for her children shows amazing strength... . Think about it this way your sister is suffering from a mental illness, if she could step out of that state of mind for just a minute and take a look at her life from an outside perspective and a better state of mind she would probably be grateful for what your doing just as you would be grateful if the tables where turned.

I also wanted to mention that if she starts therapy with a new therapists your right the therapist can only see whats in front of them and they won't get the whole story. However if they are any good at what they do most likely especially at this point where she has lost her children they will see through her right away. I've had to shut my mother out of my life and I've stopped telling her to go to therapy because the truth is she shouldn't be a part of society she's abusive and destructive to everyone in her path and deep down she knows a good therapist would see that no matter what comes out of her mouth. Anyway I hope for your sake and her children's sake that she does admit she needs help but if that doesn't happen I hope together your able to find some peace in sticking together through this horrible time in your life and that eventually it passes and your all able to move forward. Just remember no matter what that your not alone and you're not just doing the right thing what you're doing takes courage and strength. Strength that her children will learn and grow from and hopefully have a brighter future as a result.  Good luck 

[Chunkybeah]

Question-

As a concerned aunt with a BPD sister, what are my rights to help my minor niece and nephews? How do they escape the situation before they are 18? It is so scary to sit back and watch them get abused, but to force myself to keep a relationship with my sister in order to keep a relationship with my niece and nephews.

I am so happy for the person who originally got this post that her niece and nephews are out of that house... . Just be a great aunt and take care  of yourself and them

Best,of luck- xoxo

[Finallyblooming]

Hi Chunkybeah,

I had to gain custody of my niece after some pretty bad situations with my ubrother. I called Child Protection Services after a visit to their house and a few disclosures from my niece. Contrary to a lot of beliefs, CPS has been nothing but good and helpful to us, a lifesaver for my niece. They also can answer a lot of questions that you might have.

[Chunkybeah]

Thank you- it will be difficult as my brother- in- law is just as abusive and a total enabler- I will give them a ring and get some info- thank u and god bless- I am here if you need anything

Best,

Jen

[stymied]

i haven't been back to this board for a while as things have been so chaotic.  i don't even know where i can begin to explain what has been happening.

i just wanted to say that things are a little less volatile, but no less outrageous and terrifying.  i am doing my best to take care of everyone involved, including myself, but it has not been easy.  i wish i had a million dollars and could whisk us all away to a remote island somewhere and get away from all of this awful business.  alas, we are stuck here to face the music.

i am still struggling with the guilt, but understand that all of this had to happen--there was no good time for it to take place, and no elegant way to go about it.  and i have appreciated everyone's feedback here since the FOG fills my head and makes it hard for me to know what's right and wrong about all of this.

i am so incredibly tired and still unsure as to what the ultimate outcome will be.  i thank you all for your support.  i especially appreciate hearing from others who have had BPD parents.  my mother has a mild case of it, and when i think back to when i was growing up, i know i would have given my eye teeth for a concerned relative or family friend to have reached out to me to offer love and support.  no one ever did.

God bless.

stymied.   

[Chunkybeah]

We are all here for you. I will pray for you and your family. God bless and may it get easier for you

[CinnamonRadio]

Hi Stymied,

Thanks for keeping us posted.  I remember when my mother had her first complete psychotic breakdown.  She told me she had to go to the hospital, but she would be better in a few weeks.  I was 14 at that point.  She never really came back, which was probably actually good, but pretty heartbreaking at the time.  Chances are you are in for the long haul- not that you need us to remind you- but it's always nice to hear someone else has gone through the same insane ride, and you're not alone!

I know we've all said it, but I have to reiterate it, the self-care is SO important.  If you were running a marathon every week, you would really ensure that you were eating well, sleeping well and getting all of the TLC your body needs.  Well this is a marathon, so take care of you. 

We really wish you all the best moving forward.  Again, YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING!   

[eyvindr]

stymied --

I don't know what to say, except I really admire the strength that you are demonstrating in your choices and actions.

i have a voicemail from my therapist giving me permission to take care of myself that i keep listening to, and i will print out your reply and re-read it as needed to help reinforce that.

i hope and pray she is able to find her way clear to get the help she needs. 

i am so grateful for this discussion board.  i swear, i felt like we were the only people on earth who had this going on in their families.  and though i am sorry for everyone who has to deal with this, i am so relieved to have access to the support here.

Keep listening to that voicemail. Keep posting to the boards.

I hope your sister is able to reach some point of clarity for herself and find her way to help, too. No one deserves to live that way. But she has to do it herself -- you are not responsible for her choices. Despite the disease, she is responsible for everything she does. There is a reason she is finding herself alone right now, and I'll hazard a guess that it's not because she overlooked somebody's birthday.

And her children are lucky that she has as compassionate and responsible a sister as you are as their aunt.

[stymied]

hello again,

after a few weeks of calm, i'm back as things have gotten very ugly again.

in a nutshell, attempts at a reunion were made and blew up.  it was way too soon and not enough work has been done to have made the success of such an endeavor really possible, but she maneuvered her way back in.  now she is alone again, blaming me and everyone else for isolating her when it was her own hostile and out-of-control behavior that has made everyone run for cover. 

like eyvindr said--it's not because of forgetting someone's birthday.  ;-)

i am so very afraid of what will become of her but i cannot put myself and my family in the line of fire anymore, and i am still intent on helping her children.  this is a crisis situation but what am i supposed to do?  i am afraid of making recommendations to get intensive psychological intervention at this point because it will just open up the flood gates and she will attack me again.  i miss my sister.  i love my sister.  but this is not my sister.

thank you for your kind replies and words of wisdom.  this is just an absolutely hideous experience.

what do you do?