BPD - accepting it

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

 I was ashamed to admit that it took me so long to figure it out.  It was embarrassing to me and it tied into the inner shame and unrealistic expectations I had for myself.  

Gulp - you got me on that one Tailspin - wow, so true for me as well.  I was soo embarrassed at being divorced after only a year married (3 together prior) that I was willing to do, overlook, sell my worth to make this marriage work or else.  Then, when I read SWOE - I was comforted and panic'd all at the same time.

I had lived my life trying to make all the statistical right choices to avoid pain - how on earth did I end up here?  Why didn't I pay attention to the red flags?  Certainly, I deserved this bad treatment now, right?

The Gifts of Imperfection - by Brene Brown - really helped me heal and understand that part of me.

As always, thanks for your input Tailspin.

[seeking balance]

 I was ashamed to admit that it took me so long to figure it out.  It was embarrassing to me and it tied into the inner shame and unrealistic expectations I had for myself.  

Gulp - you got me on that one Tailspin - wow, so true for me as well.  I was soo embarrassed at being divorced after only a year married (3 together prior) that I was willing to do, overlook, sell my worth to make this marriage work or else.  Then, when I read SWOE - I was comforted and panic'd all at the same time.

I had lived my life trying to make all the statistical right choices to avoid pain - how on earth did I end up here?  Why didn't I pay attention to the red flags?  Certainly, I deserved this bad treatment now, right?

The Gifts of Imperfection - by Brene Brown - really helped me heal and understand that part of me.

As always, thanks for your input Tailspin.

[Learning_curve74]

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

It wasn't hard, she told me she was mentally ill! I thought I could help her somehow. I saw some little things that made me think that she was trying to overcome her illness, but I'm not sure if it was just wishful thinking on my part or just the fact that those small gestures were just that, not necessarily progress in the direction of healing or adapting to her illness.


2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

I don't any more. Like I said above, I thought she was trying hard to change. She did change some but not enough to be the person I need in my life, to grow old together as best friends. A mutual friend told me that she (BPDex) would never change. I don't necessarily believe that, but I do believe that she will not truly change until she makes a real effort to help herself change her dysfunctional behaviors. It's very sad because she can be a very nice caring person with a lot to contribute to others and to hopefully be happy with herself (or at least not constantly tortured), but she always gets herself into trouble with her actions.  :'(

[Trick1004]

So, let's talk about :

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

Great topic.

1) I believe I have wrapped my head around this being a mental illness on her part. I grew up dealing with a step-mom who I am also convinced has BPD up through my early 20's. A number of factors led up to it but I reached a point where I just simply had to cut her out of my life for a few years. We are on agreeable terms now but she has never apologized for anything she put me through.

Interesting though last Christmas me and my ex were at my dad and step-mom's house and later my ex told me she had a conversation with my step-mom where my step-mom admitted feeling very bad about everything she had done to me growing up.

I know it is a mental illness, but their failure to ever admit any kind of remorse, wrongdoing, or apologize in person to the people they hurt still astounds me.

2) I don't expect it anymore. It is their pattern that they have lived throughout their lives. Normal people can recognize on some level if they are trapped in on-going destructive pattern and take steps to get out of that pattern. BPD though don't see it as a pattern of their own doing but an on-going thing other people do to them. They live out their life as a constant victim and expecting them to see it any other way goes against the very core of how they define themselves.

[Ittookthislong]

iamdizzy- i know what you mean about seeming normal consistently. i was lucky enough to catch a few glimpses at what was behind the mask. he was very humble, calm, everyone loved him, friendly... . one night, i dont knoww hat as going on with him but he just started speaking really fast and nervous and nervous laughing. i remember being really freaked out and thinking is this what goes on underneath the coolest calmest person ive ever known... . i asked him if he was alright and he broke down crying. this is the only time i ever saw him crack but he just cried like a baby and i started comforting him like a child. he kept saying "no it feels good to finally feel something, this is good, i dont feel things, im empty.

next  day it was like it never happenned and i never saw him loose his cool again- until of course he started putting me down while abandoning the relationship.

i still feel humbled and hurt from how he treated me, but when i get angry i think of that little moment and i cant believe how much he is hiding and how hard it must be(not to mention he is an amazing actor because that was after like 8 months of knowing him) but he really is sad, he just doesnt tap into it... .

thats the part tht confuses me, not tapping into your feelings. the whole splitting black thing. i cant wrap my head around just losing feelings in one day. thats hard to accept or understand, so difficult i question whether people mean that figurativly or literally. very confused.

[DeRetour]

Seeking Balance,

Hi. Good questions here... .

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

1) My uBPD-exGF is high functioning - she held the same job for 7 years. That said, I met her during her last year at that job. During that time, she had at least two co-workers that she painted black. Still, she had this stability and seemed to be competent enough to keep this position. And then there were her friends - most of her girl friends seemed to be stable for being in their mid-20s. But, on closer look, she has lost 4 friends over time in some kind of abrupt falling-out. In all instances, it was framed as, "I just don't take ___ from people." I guess, very similar to what you described, I would say my ex was high functioning and would also seem to say the right things at the right time. It's not that I think she's even some master manipulator. No, I think this is really more of an unconscious survival mechanism for her. Finally, I feel it's been hard to wrap my head around this as an illness because I had a hard time accepting that I could have fallen in love with someone who was ill.

2) This second question is good food for thought. Looking back at this relationship, I found myself doing something I've done in other aspects of my life. I really hate to admit this. I mean, it really goes against how I really want to live my life, but I see a pattern here.

Whenever, she would engage in a poor behavior, I tried to take the high road and wait for her to self-correct. I did this in little seemingly innocent things, like for instance, she would sleep over at my place 3-4 nights a week, and morning and night, I'd patiently give her a massage. She'd have no problem telling me how much pressure she wanted or what not, and sometimes she'd just fall asleep. Rarely... . rarely ever did she give me a massage. I know, I should have simply asked. But often she'd fall asleep immediately.

I did this with not-so-innocent behaviors as well, regrettably. Whenever she'd have moodswings, which were becoming more and more frequent again, toward the end of our relationship, I would find myself quickly trying to just help her out of her funk. Often it would be some very strong response to something that would seem so minor, but whatever, I did what I could. So, I'd wait around and hope that she'd come to her senses and realize just how difficult her behavior was. And sure enough, she would sometimes say, "I know... . I'm not easy to get along with. Everyone eventually gives up on me." and a few times when she was feeling really low, she'd add to that, "I just don't even care anymore. I wish a car would hit me or something would take my life just so I don't have to deal with this anymore." And once again, I'd resort to band-aid quick solutions - comforting, pleading, etc., then I would wait around and hope she'd come back later and say something like, "I'm sorry. I realize this behavior was very difficult to deal with. I can see that I have some issues and need to get some help."

Whewww...

Seeking Balance, thanks for posing these questions and sharing your experiences with them.

[seeking balance]

DeRetour - Thanks for sharing.

I, too, had to look deep because mine was so high functioning... . but there was always a drama of some sort, I just simply took the explanations at face value.  It took me quite a while to get this BPD thing was real.

[seeking balance]

I know it is a mental illness, but their failure to ever admit any kind of remorse, wrongdoing, or apologize in person to the people they hurt still astounds me.

Me too, Trick

Logically, I know apology requires a strong sense of self - but it certainly is frustrating when someone cannot own their part of something - I agree!

[iluminati]

1. In my case,  the big stumbling glockenspiel was that for the first 2 years or so that I knew my stbxw,  she was relatively functional.  Granted,  she could get very upset,  but it was nothing beyond the pale.  Also I have some relatives abd friends  who were bipolar,  but there wasn't any real connection to that for me until she was hospitalized. When someone has a track record of being well,  you expect them to be well. The issues came out more after her diagnosis and subsequent treatment where we had the issues.

2. This really gets to me because,  due to a number of circumstances,  she was able to get the best treatment available,  yet refused to accept it. Apparently facing her demons was too much a price to pay for help. Initially I was supportive,  but as it became clear that she was willing to say and do anything to avoid confronting her pain,  I was upset that I chose someone who didn't value herself. In turn,  it made me wonder if I chose someone who thought they were worthless, what the heck is wrong with me?  How messed up do I think I am. I was in therapy at the time I realized this,  so I had some help.  Still,  I feel like an idiot for not realizing how down I was on myself at that point in my life when I met her,  and how I turned a transient feeling into a mess of a marriage.  I know it wasn't my fault from r not knowing, but I still feel stupid for turning a small thing into something major,  on that is now effecting a small child I brought into the world.

[Undone123]

He told me that I was the one who was mentally ill, that he is perfectly rational. I am the one who lives in a world of illusions based on my own feelings.

Why did I believe it? I have in fact been diagnosed with bipolar type 2 and take nothing for it. I used to drink daily and now I am in recovery. So I thought that he was right and that I just had to work harder on my own recovery. Now that I have been in recovery for over a year and have been doing well professionally, I'm not as willing to believe that I am not in my right mind when he is emotionally disregulating and/or dissociating.

It is tough when the person we love and trust uses our greatest weakness against us.  It is easy to buy into their belief until we can get really really clear.

I had said early on that "I can be a handful" meaning I live life very honestly and a lot of people kinda tip toe around subjects.  This exact phrase was used the first night of MC back at me and it really pushed my own shame button.

What I learned is by focusing on my own behaviors - I really wasn't the one that was distorting reality, my ex was.

Thanks for sharing!

hahaha! my mother told my ex "he can be a handful" and I also admitted to being a bit of a handful, in the same sense as you... . and like you it was used against me. Along with "even your own parents know what you are like".

[SweetCharlotte]

Haha--the partner of the pwBPD is always "a handful" when they start to doubt the pwBPD's perception and reason.

But we are also "apt pupils" and once we know we are the more rational member of the couple, there's no going backwards. Time then to understand what got us here and how best to deal with the pwBPD or with letting go of the relationship.

[changingme]

1. Why is it hard for YOU to wrap your head around this as a true mental illness?

2. Why do we expect a person with very clear patterns of poor behavior (or we wouldn't be here, right?) to be the one that changes the dynamic?

1. Because I spent so many years blaming his behaviors on so many other issues; because I spent so many years hoping he would change and see the light; because I thought those other issues could be fixed and worked on; because our daughter has it; because truly accepting it as a mental illness means all the years I had held onto hope things could get better for our family was a waste and there is no solution or fix, it means just throwing in the towel and having to give up; because I have other mental illness in my family and even so I didn't understand what I was dealing with; because it took me 15 years to find out about BPD and it was a shock; because I can't tell anyone how I finally have my answers; because at the end of the day still no one understands the pain and then I feel alone with this mental illness that isn't even mine.

2. The pain of having to accept no. 1.