Remain friends?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm still in the break-up running through the revenge stage. I've heard the new guy wanted to say something to me. He saw me last week at an event we both go to. I didn't see him. Not sure what that might be about. Could be to assault me perhaps from lies the GF might have told him about me. Or apologize for taking my ex-girlfriend as he new we were together before.   

I'm still doing NC. But reading and understanding this illness a bit more now. After a few months or years in T to work on boundaries and your own issues. Do you ever have a friendship with these people? Or do you cut your ties and never look back? Why?

[dangoldfool]

I'm still in the break-up running through the revenge stage. I've heard the new guy wanted to say something to me. He saw me last week at an event we both go to. I didn't see him. Not sure what that might be about. Could be to assault me perhaps from lies the GF might have told him about me. Or apologize for taking my ex-girlfriend as he new we were together before.   

I'm still doing NC. But reading and understanding this illness a bit more now. After a few months or years in T to work on boundaries and your own issues. Do you ever have a friendship with these people? Or do you cut your ties and never look back? Why?

[Scout99]

I'm still in the break-up running through the revenge stage. I've heard the new guy wanted to say something to me. He saw me last week at an event we both go to. I didn't see him. Not sure what that might be about. Could be to assault me perhaps from lies the GF might have told him about me. Or apologize for taking my ex-girlfriend as he new we were together before.  

I'm still doing NC. But reading and understanding this illness a bit more now. After a few months or years in T to work on boundaries and your own issues. Do you ever have a friendship with these people? Or do you cut your ties and never look back? Why?

I am sorry for the distress you feel right now,   but it is a good thing you are here and communicate with us and keep venting and work on you and your process through this!  

Wondering what new guy might want to talk about is a dead end, since you can not read his mind... . And that will only create more suffering for you, that you don't deserve... . Do you think you have it in you to let go of such thinking?

Reading some on the subject might help. Here is an article that touches on the subject, if you haven't seen it already;

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder [NEW]

As for NC or no NC, I'd say it is really up to you, and how you feel and what purpose remaining in contact or rekindling as friends would play for you... .

It takes a lot of balance to get over a love relationship and then transform it into friendship, even when there is no personality disorder involved... . A lot harder when there is... .

But here at this community we don't "preach" NC as the only rule or something like that... .

As for me, I had before a r/s with a man with NPD, (narcissistic personality disorder), and at the end of our r/s things got so scary and nasty for me, and he became so hostile and threatning, that anything but NC came in question. We are in NC still. And I do not regret that decision. Today I simply don't care what he is doing or how his new r/s is working or eventually will fall apart of if he still is ignoring his son, (from a previous r/s)... . and so on. Emotionally I don't care!

My image of him has changed from his idealized and acted version to the sad and raging shell of a man he truly is with no insight whatsoever about his disordered behaviors and such... .

At this point in my life I have yet again found myself in a r/s this time with a man who turns out has BPD... . He is very different from my NPD guy, but still troubled and has no help. And there is a lot of push and pull going on... . And in those times he often wants to transfer our r/s into friendship, (just to keep me close, but not as intimate, since ha can't sooth himself and the intimacy frightens him at times). I have however been firm in that we are either in a committed r/s or I am out... . And for me right now, a part of me would of course be his friend if he indeed was in need of one, but if we end up breaking up the r/s permanently, I can not say today whether or not I would like to remain friends or not... . That will have to depend on how I feel then and how I would feel about having him blabber about new love interests and such... .

I think therefore the answer to that question lies in where we choose to set up our boundaries... . It is a personal choice but one that has to be made in consideration of your needs and your level of balance at the time... .

Best wishes and keep posting and processing this issue! It helps more than you perhaps know and feel right now!

Scout99

[Moonie75]

I couldn't be friends with mine, I just couldn't. The best I can promise is to be civil if I find myself in the same room as her, then quickly & politely get the hell out of there. No scene or rev ups about the past, just some guy not wanting to stand talking to an upsetting past experience that's gonna take so much work to recover from.

I'll get to the stage where I genuinely wish her wellness & peace for herself one day, I know I can do that.

That's good enough for me to be comfortable with, and should be more than enough for her.  

[dangoldfool]

Thanks for the reply's, The more I think about it. Why would someone who has lied to me from the beginning of the 3 year relationship, be someone I would want as a friend. I can't stand to be lied to, especially by someone I would have done anything for, and thought I could trust her. I feel sorry for her, I guess that why I thought of possible seeing if its possible to stay friends. But at the end of the day. What do I get out of it. More lies, drama, OK... .   Uh... . No thanks. I rather be a loner first.    

[Reg]

To be honest with myself, I have learned a lot on borderline, I have learned a lot about myself, I have learned which mistakes I finally made in the relationship, I understand my ex her way of thinking due to the BPD now better and better, but I would not really want to have to consider to be friends with her again. 

Why, she told it myself in a way, because the rest of her life will be big mess anyway, and I don't want to whitness that kind of self destructive behavior anymore and get hurt by it or see the person that I loved so much end up in neverending disaster.

BPD or not, she has a choice, get help and get better, invest two or three years of her life partially in doing that or facing a life of never ending drama.  She choose the latter.  It is her decision, and I will respect it.  And by doing so she has to respect my decision as well.  Out of my life.

[Moonie75]

Did you speak to her about getting help & give her a choice Reg?

[Perfidy]

After years of GROSS disrespect and the MASSIVE dump my disordered ex took on me I can only burn the bridge. Scorched earth. I am having more compassion for myself than her. I loved her more than she loved herself. I knew her better than she knew herself. I am so devastated that now I must think of my own well being first. She is a big girl and can take care of herself. Nobody will take care of me except me. Friends? Maybe in a few years. Not now. I have no reason to be her friend. She failed the friend test.

[Reg]

Moonie, we did.  She came one evening to me for a talk about her disease, and she could only talk to me about it she said.

We talked in a very relaxed way about borderline and about her getting help.  She acknowledged her problem.  We decided to have more talks on the matter.  By the time we had our next talk her husband, with whom she lives again (living and that's really all, they each go their way) had told her I was the big bad wolf from another planet and that nothing was wrong with her (he has serious NPD features I was told and always tried to hold on to her just for his comfort at home, he even said it, if she loved him or not, he would never ever let go of her !). 

So she was by that moment still considering therapist help to become more assertive (there was still a little hope on that moment).  But as good as all of her actual friends/lovers now have BPD, accuse one another of BPD or have serious BPD treats, and complete lack of identity in one case, she did get under the influence of them... .

Talk 3 and 4 without result, and I pushed in a relaxed matter talk 4 in the direction of it has no use to continue.  Did I manipulate the conversation, yes I'm not going to deny this, I did, for myself.  It was clear there was no point, she had completely turned and postponed the last talk for weeks.  She was pushing me away, I was turning black the others white.  They live near her place, I live 55 miles away. 

At the end of the conversation she wanted to remain friends, I said I would need time, she wanted a hug, I gave a hand.  That was on Friday.  On Monday I mailed her that I only wanted to remain friends if she did seek help.  She said no.  There was nothing wrong with me.

She mailed me later concerning a financial matter between us, and tried again the friendship thing.  I proposed to go both to a therapist etc.  She has no problems she said, she is so much better, she has no stress, the denial story.  The more she fibromyalgia, stress is the big trigger, and she just had results of the professor who deals with that matter, showing that she went back physically again by 15 %... .   No problems ? No stress ? Even that she is lying to herself about... .

Reg

[Mutt]

I can't remiand friends with my uBPDw. We have kids together. I'm going to family court at the end of the month. I want everything on paper for visitation, holidays to minimize the conflict. I can be civil when I pick up the kids.

I have values. She had an affair, lied and stole from me and denies all of it. Does that sound like a friend? No. I will get to a place someday where I can put the relationship into it's place but I'll never be friends with her again. Friends don't lie, cheat and steal. She's sick but she still has to be accountable for her actions. It doesn't mean she gets a pass.

[danley]

After breaking up my ex was the one who wanted to remain friends. I believe it was a way to lessen the blow of the breakup as well as a way for him to keep a connection with me. I wanted to remain friends but deep down I still had more than friends feelings for him. But I tried to just keep things on a friendly level. A few days later he acted as tho I had the plague and then told me that maybe wrong shouldn't be friends. I was confused. He then had a period of extreme mood swings...    hot and cold towards me. I pointed out that I didn't deserve the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde routine. He said he valued me and that I was important to him but yet he could not stop yo yo ing with his behavior and moods. I was so drained and confused even more. When I finally couldn't take his inconsistent treatment towards me, I told him this wasn't working out. He got angry and enraged and repeated my exact words back to me as tho it was his ideach that moment. I avoided him after this. He started being nice to me and his attitude got better. He began telling me how much he cared and how good a friend I am. He began to drop the mood swings.

I was and still am baffled but yet grateful that he has been taking steps towards treating me kindly. But I am at a point where the trust I had for him has diminished due to his behavior following our breakup. Can I find it in my heart to be his friend? How can someone who claims to want to be friends act this way? Will I ever be able to trust him again? Right now I feel weary about his intentions. I WANT to believe he's not manipulating the situation. But I still see signs of self centeredness with him. And true friends don't manipulate, use, or abuse the people they care for... .

Remaining friends is a personal choice. But just be mindful with who and what you're dealing with... .

[Trick1004]

I really don't think it's possible to remain friends. She wants to but I can't after the way she left with nothing left behind.

Think hard about it, why would you want to remain friends with someone that put you through so much crap? Trying to stay friends will only make you miserable while soothing the ex's pain.

[Sunny2013]

I can't remiand friends with my uBPDw. We have kids together. I'm going to family court at the end of the month. I want everything on paper for visitation, holidays to minimize the conflict. I can be civil when I pick up the kids.

I have values. She had an affair, lied and stole from me and denies all of it. Does that sound like a friend? No. I will get to a place someday where I can put the relationship into it's place but I'll never be friends with her again. Friends don't lie, cheat and steal. She's sick but she still has to be accountable for her actions. It doesn't mean she gets a pass.

This exactly!

I even told my uBPDh "why would I want to be friends with you after we get divorced when you weren't nice to me when we were married?"  He keeps telling me that he wants to be

friends but I told him it probably won't happen but if it did that's 10 or 15 years down the line. 

I plan on going NC as soon as the divorce is final and keep it that way.  I've told him already that when I drop off/pick up the kids I will be waiting in the driveway and they can run out. 

[Gaslit]

Remain friends?

Were any of us ever really friends? Was it ever a real, true, normal, reciprocal friendship?

Or were we an object in the minds of someone with a mental illness? An object that was idolized initially, and then when that wore off, and object that was useful when they needed an object, and a burden, when they were off idolizing someone or something else?

Were we are really friends?

I would say no.

Thus remaining friends when we were never really friends is impossible.

[ScotisGone74]

During the downfall of the last few days of contact with my exBPD she was emailing saying that she would always be my 'best friend' and that she wanted to stay friends.  No one that was ever your true friend would lie, cheat, manipulate, have their current sex partner over in front of you, period, regardless of illness or not.  I would rather chop off my nose with a rough axe than be friends with her.   The only Real Reason that they want to be 'friends' is so that they can use/abuse us for something else in the future, as well as to triangulate their current relationship, thats it.     Going on 9 months NC now and feeling much better. 

[Blessed0329]

My ex thinks we ARE still friends. He outright said so in one of his latest emails to me, which was full of over the top gushing towards me again. But the friendship is only in his mind. We have not seen each other or spoken on the phone in 9 months. This is a good thing, as I needed to have very limited contact in order to detach. But he truly does not know how to be a friend, to have a mutually respectful, reciprocal relationship. It is all about him and his needs, and always will be. Sadly.

[willtimeheal]

I don't know how to be friends with someone who treated me so poorly. Friendship is built on trust and respect. I can't be friends with my ex. I feel that by being friends with her it says that the way she treated me in the relationship was ok and it wasn't. Her treatment of me was emotionally and verbally abusive. In the end she broke my heart and threw me away like a piece of garbage. She went out and found someone else while in a relationship with me. I don't trust her or have respect for her. I don't need friends like that. She does not get to have the benefit of my friendship not after the hell she put me through and the hell I continue to go thru trying to recover.

[standfree]

Impossible for me. She did want to remain friends, or "on the shelf as they see it" I just don't understand what you would get from remaining friends with them, more heartache as far as i see it. When she came out with the friends nonsense, i just let rip at her, told her some home-truths & to piss-off out of my life, i as not going to be her door-mat no longer.

I know for a fact i will be in the same room as her in 4 weeks time, first time for 4 months. I was quite happy to be civil, but she had to go mess that up to, because they cannot be civil, after a barrage of abuse by text message, blaming me for all her problems, how much of a loser i was & how much her new man (who she cheated on me with) is perfect for her "one big LOL"

If they cannot be lovers, or even friends while your in a relationship with them, how on earth can you be friends after? ITS ALL ABOUT THEM, thats why... .

[Bananas]

My ex wanted to remain friends and as others have said, he may think I am his friends in his own mind?  At one time I thought this may be possible as I am friends on some level, with all of my previous exes. 

What are some of the qualities you look for in a friend?  Does your ex have any?  i wrote a list for myself and realized my ex uNPD/BPD has NONE of the below:

trust

honesty

accountability

respect

support

empathy

compassion

That answered the question for me. 

[Perfidy]

I don't know how to be friends with someone who treated me so poorly. Friendship is built on trust and respect. I can't be friends with my ex. I feel that by being friends with her it says that the way she treated me in the relationship was ok and it wasn't. Her treatment of me was emotionally and verbally abusive. In the end she broke my heart and threw me away like a piece of garbage. She went out and found someone else while in a relationship with me. I don't trust her or have respect for her. I don't need friends like that. She does not get to have the benefit of my friendship not after the hell she put me through and the hell I continue to go thru trying to recover.

   Right. Exactly how I feel. I suppose this kind of incongruous thought was present during the course of the years that I was with my ex and this whole friendship thing is just another manifestation of the pretzel logic. If she offers friendship (but doesn't really care) and I reject it then I am the hostile crazy one. It's just another way to let herself off the hook. Kick me in the balls then say " let's be friends". My boundaries must have been no factor whatsoever to ME!

[patientandclear]

For what it's worth, I am close friends with my uBPDex.  I don't think it would have been possible w/o nearly a year of strict NC, so I could deal w/the longing for something else that was eroding the equality btwn us post-break-up.

I've posted a lot (mostly on Staying) about this post-breakup r/s and won't tell the whole story here. I will say that excellent advice I've received here on BPDF allowed me to deeply see that I was wanting my ex to be someone he is not--the person he presented himself to me as being during our brief love affair. But I liked him apart from that. We'd been colleagues for years & I really liked & respected him, apart from that whole thing where he broke his promises to me about being unequivocally mine ... .

I am still working on genuinely accepting who he really is. He is working hard on figuring out who he really is, apart from a r/s. I have found that it is possible to have a r/s of trust and reciprocity, just not if I want him to be someone he is not.

It is very hard for him to trust. Very hard. It has been hard for me to trust him after the heartbreak. We're learning through doing. We no longer say words of commitment, we do acts of commitment, if that makes sense.

I offer this only because I don't want people reading a "friends?" thread to get the impression that it is beyond the bounds of experience to have a meaningful post-r/s friendship with someone w/BPD.

[willtimeheal]

I think they look for friendship just so they don't have to feel the sting of adondament and they don't have to take responsibility for how they treated you. I think in their twisted perception by remaining friends it lets them off the hook handlers them not feel like horrible people... . one of their greatest fears. Sorry but I was put thru hell and I continue to suffer everyday. My self esteem was flushed down the toilet. I cry most of the days and I am just empty. I am on meds and in therapy. Sad thing is I miss her so much. How messed up is that?

[mcc503764]

I couldn't be friends with mine, I just couldn't. The best I can promise is to be civil if I find myself in the same room as her, then quickly & politely get the hell out of there. No scene or rev ups about the past, just some guy not wanting to stand talking to an upsetting past experience that's gonna take so much work to recover from.

I'll get to the stage where I genuinely wish her wellness & peace for herself one day, I know I can do that.

That's good enough for me to be comfortable with, and should be more than enough for her.  

Well, I personally tried that one, and it doesn't work!  Perhaps in about 20 years, but definitely NOT in the forseeable future!

As everyone has posted before me, some of the most crude, disrespectful, vain, demeaning things happened during the r/s.  It was never about care and respect, the r/s was based off of the wrong things!  This was equally my fault as well, but there was too much hurt / pain to ever go back on any level for me!

I recently tried the "friendship" game.  I expressed my sincere feelings that I wouldn't hold on to the anger / hate any longer from the fallout of the r/s.  I wasn't telling her that I wanted to be "besties" in any sense of the imagination, but that I didn't want to go through my life hanging onto the anger.  it was holding me down, and was just to the point to where it was too exhausting!  so, I tried to "take the high road."  I was NOT trying to weasel my way back into her life, I was just trying to free each other from the emotional burdens that we both still seemed to be carrying around.

Needless to say, this didn't last very long.  Very soon, everything was turned into all about her.  I didn't understand it.  I found myself, once again, getting wrapped up in her mind... . NOT a pretty place to be!

I found her stories, quite frankly, insulting to my intelligence!  I didn't understand why she still felt the need to lie to me, what was the point?  This was confusing and too much to deal with.

She always had a way to emotionally paint me into a corner.  Then act like the "victim" when I would stand up for myself?  It's wrong, it's manipulative, it's deceitful, and it's NOT what is right for me on a "friendship" or any other level.

So, I have silently forgiven her.  I am 100% complete NC and that is how it will remain.  Not sure how it will be if I bump into her somewhere, but she is pretty good about being sneaky enough not to be seen, so I don't think that will happen.

My advise, don't try the "friendship" route, unless you want to prolong your pain!

MCC

[Octoberfest]

Very good answers ITT concerning looking at what friends really are and the the things they do and don't and using that to make a judgement on having your BPDex as a friend or not. I did the same thing.

I cut two friends out of my life while I was with my BPDex, a close friend who went and slept with her and my best friend who made out with her.  Both events happened during weekends where we fought and "broke up" but subsequently got back together the next day.  I didn't buy the technicalities of "you guys were broken up"... . friends don't go there.  They have respect. To top it off, neither of them told me, I found out from her 2 months after the fact.

I reasoned that in my life I value three things above all else:

Loyalty

Honor

Integrity

My two friends showed NONE of those when they went and did what they did, so I removed them from my life.

A hard truth that I have only recently acknowledged is that my BPDex had NONE of those things either... . yet for 9 months I made excuses and rationalized away her actions so I could justify in my mind staying.  I demonized my friends for their role in those events but gave her a free pass for one reason or another.

The truth is after the things she CHOSE to do while we dated, she doesn't deserve my friendship.  She is just another person whose life choices do not live up to the standard I hold myself and those in my life to.

She does not have the Honor, Loyalty, or Integrity to be my friend, LET ALONE, my SO.