Verge of breaking "no contact"

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Is she seeing someone else?

[PDQuick]

Is she seeing someone else?

[Eric1]

I don't know.

[fromheeltoheal]

Are you clear on what you want Eric1?  Do you want to get back together, or do you want to get some closure?  I made the mistake of going back to "see what happens" without a goal going in, and found out I really just wanted to be with her because that felt better than being away from her at the time; more moving away from the pain than moving towards something.  And of course it all blew up, and I had to start over again.  Emotional detachment and objectivity is darn near impossible at times like that, but I recommend you try and focus on it a little; good luck man.

[PDQuick]

If you want to rekindle this relationship, there are many books about there with dos and don'ts.  It might be good idea to buy one and spend a night and cram through it before doing anything.

In the meantime, a simple text like "I'm great.  Thanks for asking." can be a good place marker and you can follow-up in a few days.

Nothing changes without changes.  If you keep doing what you have been doing you will get the same result - maybe its time to take a different approach.

Are you clear on what you want Eric1?  Do you want to get back together, or do you want to get some closure?  I made the mistake of going back to "see what happens" without a goal going in... .

A really good point.

[Moonie75]

I don't know if this will help Eric?

My ex is not diagnosed BPD, but apart from self-harming & other 'low functioning' symptoms, it's all there for a close partner to see!

We broke up several times & I suffered countless heart break & abuse. During each break up I learned hard & unpleasant lessons. Most painful lessons learned WITH BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS were... .

DO NOT expect any contact to be well received in any period when you're 'painted black' EVER! That is set in stone my man. Believing any different is good as believing there's a chance of getting to the moon in cardboard space ship some 5yr old knocked up in grandma's kitchen!

DO NOT mistake early pleasant contact for 'she's come to her senses & we can work this whole mess out, there's no other guy on her mind'.

(Usually the early stages of making friendly contact are while they're calming down from the situation that got you painted. They're now undecided about you, or the person they idealized while you were getting a good coat of Dulux's darkest gloss!)

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, think you can manage this differently this time & it will be okay.  Now you know more about her fears & insecurities & know what dark forces are at play, you're still not going to keep the rages, splitting & pain from coming back & eating your soul. You may delay it, or reduce the regularity (if you're one of the best practiced). But you WILL NOT stop it coming back to eat your relationship & you again!

But DO, accept that if she commits with absolute conviction that she wants to change her behavior in the relationship, while you too change yours, & is open to you BOTH seeking professional help & advice on why & how this happened, it has a iddy biddy chance to go well.


I personally if I'm honest with myself ,desperately want the latter. But I've accepted it's not on the menu for my relationship. That doesn't mean it can't be on yours tho! But anything less is just boarding the crazy train again & heading straight back to the lands of ':)O NOT'.

I'm done with my ticket ticket... . Unless the next train's going to a therapist. But I won't waste my life standing & waiting for a train that's never coming! If you're lucky that train might come for you. But don't board any other kind!

[Eric1]

I've asked if she wants to catch up over a drink. Suppose I'll just have to wait and see if I get a response.

[Eric1]

Still no reply. I just have to take this on the chin & try my best to forget about her.

[fromheeltoheal]

Still no reply. I just have to take this on the chin & try my best to forget about her.

The most important thing you can do right now is focus on your motivation; why do you want to see her and/or text or talk to her?

[Eric1]

I miss her. Yeah, she could be crazy at times and she's done and said things which are terrible, but I still care about her.

[fromheeltoheal]

I miss her. Yeah, she could be crazy at times and she's done and said things which are terrible, but I still care about her.

What does that mean exactly?  I still care about mine too, but I want absolutely nothing to do with her, for my own sanity.  6 days is very short in the detachment period, there's an acronym around here, FOG, which means fear, obligation and guilt, but has the additional meaning of being in a fog, and 6 days is not enough for it to clear.  You're on this board for a reason, you're hurting and you've been subjected to BPD traits at least, or you wouldn't be here, so dig a little, since as I mentioned going back into it to "see what happens" is the recipe for more pain.

[Eric1]

I thought it was probably best to ask on here, as we seem to still be in contact.

She rang me last night, she'd had a drink and just wanted to chat. She has the week off work, we were supposed to be going away on holiday, but because we broke up, we didn't. The conversation was pretty light. She spoke about a job shes going for, her dad whos having some emotional difficulties, what shes been up to etc. What's been going on with me & stuff.

The things that got me was she mentioned she'd been drinking quite a bit since the break up and said "I thought the break up would of been for the best, but... . " Then i said, looks like we've both been hitting the bottle" We laughed. She also said, "We should be on holiday now" We probably spoke for a good hour. I said i needed to go off and eat, so we ended the convo, then she said "i'll see you soon", i said "it's nice chatting", then bye.

I don't know if i would ever try to get back with her, but just find it a bit wierd that she still rings me.

[Scout99]

I don't know if i would ever try to get back with her, but just find it a bit wierd that she still rings me.

Hi Eric1!

I want to commend you for choosing to work so hard on yourself and really think things through before doing something, and yes using the board to gain different perspectives on a situation is usually very helpful.

But it is important still that you don't loose track of you in this process, so that you sort of instead of listening to her and what she wants and so on, now instead starts to listen only to what the board members may think... .

Healing from the effects these relationships usually have on us, as well as the potential of being able to function better and overall feel better also within the realm of a r/s with a pwBPD goes trough learning how to be very true and trusting of ourselves and our own judgment, so that we don't continue or fall into the trap of co-dependency or become to enmeshed... .

Having said that, what you decide to do or not to do in terms of staying in touch, no contact or getting back together  has to be all up to you. Our journey looks different from person to person, and that is the way it has to be... .

However when it comes to the question you ask about, why or if it is weird that she keeps contacting you - I don't think it is... .

She seeks validation from other people and especially from people who she feels like her. My guess is she is not already seeing someone else, (since you haven't brought any such thing up about her), or maybe she has, but it didn't work out so well? Either way she is probably a bit low on people to seek validation from, and pursuing you, who could from her perspective be furious with her and would want to have nothing to do with her, instead acts nicely to her. And that gives her tons of validation and can even trigger her into some kind of chasing mode where she can play a little bit to see if she could get you back if she wanted or not... . This whole process, (if she would enter into it, i say if since all of this is my speculations based on general assumptions on how their disorder can make a pwBPD act, but they are like us all different people, so what applies to perhaps most, may still not apply to all!), rewards her with tons of validation, since it would be a win win for her... . Either she can win you back, and then that is a win, even though then the cycle starts all over again, and with it comes also the break ups... .

Or she can't, and you may get angry at her for trying, but that still tells her you have feelings for her anyway... . and that too is validating for her... .

The thing we have the hardest to wrap our minds around is the fact that their reasons for pursuing a r/s is not quite the same as ours. The part that they seek true love and all that is the same. But to them it is the passionate feeling of true love that they crave, not necessarily the relationship itself, since their image of a relationship is infested with bad memories at the core of their belief system. In their world the prince and princess fairytale, does not end with "and then they lived happily ever after", but instead "and then the prince left me, because I am not worthy of anybody's love, and I was abandoned and left all alone... . "

Therefore they usually love the idealization phase of a relationship, but hates it when things get more established or intimate... . since to them it just means they get closer to the end... .

Now back to you... . How does it make you feel that she keeps calling?

What do you hope or want to come out of staying in touch with her?

Best Wishes

scout99

[Eric1]

I enjoy speaking to her. But, it's taken me a lot to be where i am now. The oringal break up completely destroyed me. It does get me thinking about her, and anaylizing why she calls, and what she says.

You're right about the validation. She talks about her job, family, her weight (as per usual) etc because she knows i reasure her. She always needs reasurance with everything she does. Shes a complicated soul. I said when we were going out "I need a manual to understand you" which she agrees with.

I think she has been dating. I know the type of person she is, and being with someone is her priority. Either they're not validating like i do, or she is just keeping me on the back burner. I haven't mentioned anything about getting back, missing her etc, which is what i would usually do, but neither has she.

You're completely right about the idealization phase. We broke up after this, and i said to her, you need to understand, this is the honeymoon phase, when this goes, it takes effort to make a relationship work. We did end up getting back together. I was her longest relationship, the previous ones only last a few months, because she does get scared.

I don't know what to make of it all. If we did reconcile, which some of my freinds would be angry about (because they know she treated me badly at times & i was so cut up) I would have to get her to write a list of what she expects and wants from a relationship. I would do the same because theres a lot that would need to change.

It was probably just a simple phone call that im blowing out of proportion. I have just texted her, only because she was talking about buing a computer, so i said about a shop she should try that specialises in macs.

Should i ask her what is the deal with us?

[Scout99]

I don't know what to make of it all. If we did reconcile, which some of my freinds would be angry about (because they know she treated me badly at times & i was so cut up) I would have to get her to write a list of what she expects and wants from a relationship. I would do the same because theres a lot that would need to change.

It was probably just a simple phone call that im blowing out of proportion. I have just texted her, only because she was talking about buing a computer, so i said about a shop she should try that specialises in macs.

Should i ask her what is the deal with us?

My dear Eric1... . I wish I could tell you that making a list of things you both wanted in the relationship and then sticking to it, would be a path for success... .

But in all honesty, such a plan cold backfire in all sorts or relationships, but would for sure do so for a person wigh BPD... .

She has an unstable sense of self! In plain english that means she doesn't know from one minute to the next either who she really is, or what she really wants. She has never been able to develop a stable sense of self, since the root for being able to do so is experiencing acceptance and love for who you are as a little child... . That is the platform we need to form our sense of self that then will guide us through our life... .

Now we may all from time to time suffer from a bit of low self esteem or low self worth, but here we are talking about an underdeveloped sense of self, which is the foundation for even being able to feel low self esteem and distinguish is from great self esteem... . Do you see the difference... . When suffering from BPD, the unstable sense of self makes them walking through their lives with a sense of being lost... .

So even if she would be having a great day and you were to write that list of yours that would be the insurance for making things work this time around... . Once done her anxiety levels would start to rise, together with her anticipated fears of just how fast she would do something to break the rules on the list, and be abandoned by you... . The whole list as such would be a trigger for her... .

Actually, if getting back together with her is what you want and aim for, I would start going through the lessons in boundary making, communication skills and read up as much as I could on what it would take for me to make myself strong enough to not get affected by her BPD behavior, that is to learn how to not take things personal and truly go into radical acceptance that she is a person with a severe disorder and that it doesn't matter if er behavior never changes, because you are your source for happiness, and not her... .

Honestly that is the only way, you as a non have a chance to make it and thrive within a r/s with a person this disordered... . Not by keeping up the hope beyond all hopes, (as my friend so wisely puts it when I get into this sort of magical thinking... . ), that she one day will change and that your love will finally rescue her... .

Should you ask her what the deal is?

I ask you - what do you think she will answer? Do you think she holds the answer to such a question, given the fact that she has an unstable sense of self?

I think it is soo good of you to really allow yourself to examine yourself and what you want at this point. Especially since you are still so emotionally affected by this girl, which does make it harder... . So hang in there! You are doing good! 

[musicfan42]

You're right about the validation. She talks about her job, family, her weight (as per usual) etc because she knows i reasure her. She always needs reasurance with everything she does. Shes a complicated soul. I said when we were going out "I need a manual to understand you" which she agrees with.

She's using you as an unpaid therapist. I know that part of you probably feels privileged that she entrusts you with all this intimate information but she's really just dumping it onto you. She's using you as a place she can go to feel better and then when she's done, she'll go back to her "real" life.

My guess is that she might see you as some kind of father figure too and that you might have some kind of father-daughter dynamic going on within the relationship-that she rushes to you to be soothed just as a little girl would rush to her father to be soothed. It's called transference to use a psychoanalytical term. But you can't be a father to her-you can only be a boyfriend to her. She expects unconditional love off you and of anyone she dates but romantic relationships aren't like that. Relationships aren't about unconditional love whereas a father-daughter relationship IS about unconditional love... that no matter what the daughter does wrong, she can still come back to the father and the father will forgive her and tell her that everything is okay. Well, that's what a healthy father-daughter relationship consists of.

I had that type of relationship before so I'm speaking from experience here. I felt obligated to this person because I knew what lousy parents they had. I felt a sense of guilt that I was letting them by not giving them advice... by not soothing them because I knew that they'd get into trouble without my guidance. I felt fear because I thought "oh they'll make stupid decisions if I'm not there". I had to realize that I'm not a parent... that I can't offer that to someone except my actual children if/when I do decide to have them. A parent/child relationship is a unique thing. I feel sorry for borderlines trying to replicate it but I know that ultimately, it will always be doomed because you only get one set of parents... you don't get another set. If you have bad parents, then that's it... you're on your own basically and it's probably best that you just accept it and deal with the cards that you're dealt instead of pining for something that you'll never have.

[Eric1]

She has a stable relationship with her mother. But, her relationship with her Dad isn't so.

I wouldn't say i'm in a father-daughter type because we didn't have that type of relationship. She needed reasurance from everyone, whether it was at work, from relatives, friends or me.

I told her when we were going out that she needed to see someone because she still harbours bad experiances from her parents break up. She said i was the first person to mention this. Did she seek help? No.

I think it's obvious i still have feelings for her. But, i can't just be a guy that she turns to when she's lonely, or things get tough, because it's not what i want.

If she tries to call again, i'll do my best to just ignore the call. I can't keep putting myself through it. I'm expecting the "i miss you, i want us to work etc etc" but all i get is her problems and just general chit chat.

[fromheeltoheal]

The push/pull dynamic of the disorder can be crazymaking; mine would get scared and back off, and then relate to me as if everything was fine, she's happy, yadda, yadda, and if I brought up that she pulled away and is keeping distance I'd get "I don't know what you're talking about."  Insanity if you let it be.

I just remembered another favorite of hers: "don't say how things are going to be."  Of course not, how could she have her chaos if there was a plan and she was sticking to it?  At first I thought she liked the chaos because it kept me on edge, which was a little true, but mostly it was because she couldn't do any better than that with the "unstable sense of self".

Sounds like you still have your head on straight and feet on the ground; good work man, and good luck!

[Eric1]

How should i play it if i wanted to get back?

People will probably shoot me for it, but now i know what i'm dealing with, and because i do still really like her, i think i'll be in a better place to control it.

[Skip]

I posted this earlier. 

Most relationship coaches would tell you that you have to play this one out. In short, most new relationships fail in the first 90 days, and if you still have standing with her when that occurs, she will contact you or be receptive to your contact.   Trying to reconnect while she is in the “new relationship fantasy” and you are in the “whipped dog” mode is not likely to help your cause. In fact, it will likely close out future opportunity.

A relationship coach would say now is the time for a tactful retreat with strength -  then wait it out - might by 45 days - 90 days - 6 months. In the meantime, reconnect yourself to the man she and other women will be attracted to, that your friends like, that you like - the confident, self-assured, independent Eric 1.  

Doing this not only positions you better for rekindling the old relationship and to stand strong and alone while you grieve -  it also paves the way enter a new relationship.  It's a win-win-win.

My point is that the best tactic for getting back or moving on is, in a sense, the same tactic.

You will need strength here.  Strength to exit clean, to rebuild, and to not misinterpret a safety net request when they have their first fight as a rekindling of the relationship.  Its time to become a stronger and better skilled relationship partner for your next chapter - whomever that may be.

 

There is work to do.  There is uncertainty that will be hard.

Good mental health is hard at times like this.  It takes strength.  

[Eric1]

I don't know if she is in a new relationship.

I understand being indifferent and not being whipped, but should I answer when she calls or just plain ignore her?

[fromheeltoheal]

The only way to survive a relationship with a BPD is set extremely firm boundaries and don't waver from enforcing them; a BPD is like a little kid and will continually test you, and if your're strong enough you will prevail.  I found that out late in my relationship, and it did work, in fact she was grateful that someone was showing up in control, she was literally screaming for it, but it changed my perception: a healthy relationship is a 50/50 partnership, and personally I didn't want to date a little kid, I wanted to develop a friendship and partnership with an equal adult, and she was not that person.  Why I went so far down the path with blinders on has been the biggest question I've been asking myself lately, and I'm thinking the pain it caused will teach me that lesson, and oh boy did I learn.

[Eric1]

I'm thinking of just asking her outright "are you happy with the breakup?"

It's because of some of the things she said on the phone. It doesn't make sense.

[Undone123]

you can't make sense of the senseless... . we need to except that

[Eric1]

Should I jus text her 'are you still happy with the break up?'

[Skip]

Should I jus text her 'are you still happy with the break up?'

Eric... .

This is "whipped puppy"... . she may respond, but there is so much weakness and in this approach you are inviting a relationship where you will be a "doormat" until the next whim takes her off.

Let her come to you.  That door is open now. Be receptive but cautious when she does. In the meantime work on building yourself back up into a strong and confident man again.

[Undone123]

From my experience Eric, the only way to get a BPD girl to come back, if that is what you really want is to be there in an unconditional way... . Don't chase, don't fuel it. You are most probably a trigger for her at the minute, and nothing productive will come out of any contact you make. I learnt this the hard way... .

If you want her, you need to accept her as she is. You can't change, or control her. You can only change and control yourself.

If you really love her, don't make the mistakes I did... . And believe me, I made them all.

What you need to do is really work on yourself. That takes time in itself. I'm 5 months out, and I still am. Its an on going process, and something you will always have to if you wish to maintain a relationship. If you chase, she'll lose respect for you, once that happens there is almost no going back... .

What I'm starting to realise is that yes, there is stuff I dislike about my ex as far as emotional abuse, but beyond that she was perfect. Now I'm in a situation where I will probably never get her back. Now I have to work on myself and accept my situation... . There is stuff I hate my ex for, but I unconditionally love her, and that means letting go Use this site, it's a great place to vent, but don't do anything until you have thought it through rationally.

[Eric1]

Everytime I speak to her, it gives me a sense of hope. I can't keep doing it. If she is s happy with the break up, I can tell her that we can't talk anymore.

[Eric1]

I bumped into two of her friends at the gym. They said they've seen her once since we broke up, gone of the radar. She does this when she gets into new relationships. I don't know for def that she is. If she is, she is still contacting me. I'm not being a dog and a lead the she can tug when she feels like it.

How do I find out without looking needy or desperate if she is happy with us being over.

[peas]

If you think she is happy with or accepting of two being over, then take it for face value and don't project any "what ifs" into the situation. Don't think for her. There's is no way to avoid the pain of loss from anything, let alone an intimate relationship. Live and fight through the pain. Don't prolong it. Let fate do it's thing. If she is meant to be with you, she will be with you, just like when you two met. But that doesn't mean you were meant to stay together.

Follow this woman's actions and not her words. I learned that the hard way in my BPD relationship. I put way too much weight on his words and empty promises and didn't face his actions, which told a different story.

I'd ignore her. Remove yourself from her drama.

[Eric1]

If you think she is happy with or accepting of two being over, then take it for face value and don't project any "what ifs" into the situation. Don't think for her. There's is no way to avoid the pain of loss from anything, let alone an intimate relationship. Live and fight through the pain. Don't prolong it. Let fate do it's thing. If she is meant to be with you, she will be with you, just like when you two met. But that doesn't mean you were meant to stay together.

Follow this woman's actions and not her words. I learned that the hard way in my BPD relationship. I put way too much weight on his words and empty promises and didn't face his actions, which told a different story.

I'd ignore her. Remove yourself from her drama.

I don't know if she is because of what she said on the phone. This is why talking to her doesn't do me any favours because i question what she says after. If she is seeing someone, i'm sure as ___ they don't know she's still talking to me, and i'm not comfortable with that. If she says 'I want to be friends' i would say, are you happy hearing that i've been sleeping with someone? because i know that i don't want to hear that you've been. Untill a time comes when i am indifferent to it, is the time we can be friends.

I'm just gonna ask her if shes happy.