What I'm dying to say to her

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

look I have to be honest here. when I read this letter it almost sounds just like my ex, who I think has BPD, who has convinced me that I have bod and maybe I do.

I know that I am aching for a letter like this. I don't need him in my life but he just left out of nowhere and said "you cant help someone who cant help themselves"

which now im totally confused because he seems to think I have iussues... . which makes me rage at him.

maybe I do have BPD- but all I wnt in the world is a letter just like that to put the issue to sleep. it nags at me constantly. everything felt unresolved and there was never a celear reason for why he thinks im so messed up that I need help... . other than feeling completely destroyed when he stopped communication. He has treated me like someone who has a mental illness and effectively mind&%$Kefd me into thinking I have one.

id say send it.

if my ex is right that im someone so terrible he cant be with me,a nd all his friends seem to agree, then I have BPD and id love this kind of closure.

what hurts the most is that my ex thinks I have issues, and im not perfect, I even told him id work on them (having no idea what he means other then minor depression and a cynical attitude at times) but he said "its not something you can change overnight.


(incidentally im still totally lost. I cant let go, I acted nuts, but I also paid for everything, he left out of nowhere, he cheated 3 times and turned people to thinking im a bad controlling manipulator, which im losing my mind figuring out whats the truth, but like I said, some sort of closure other then some condescending hit about me needing to work my life out myself would be a godsend.)

[Ittookthislong]

look I have to be honest here. when I read this letter it almost sounds just like my ex, who I think has BPD, who has convinced me that I have bod and maybe I do.

I know that I am aching for a letter like this. I don't need him in my life but he just left out of nowhere and said "you cant help someone who cant help themselves"

which now im totally confused because he seems to think I have iussues... . which makes me rage at him.

maybe I do have BPD- but all I wnt in the world is a letter just like that to put the issue to sleep. it nags at me constantly. everything felt unresolved and there was never a celear reason for why he thinks im so messed up that I need help... . other than feeling completely destroyed when he stopped communication. He has treated me like someone who has a mental illness and effectively mind&%$Kefd me into thinking I have one.

id say send it.

if my ex is right that im someone so terrible he cant be with me,a nd all his friends seem to agree, then I have BPD and id love this kind of closure.

what hurts the most is that my ex thinks I have issues, and im not perfect, I even told him id work on them (having no idea what he means other then minor depression and a cynical attitude at times) but he said "its not something you can change overnight.


(incidentally im still totally lost. I cant let go, I acted nuts, but I also paid for everything, he left out of nowhere, he cheated 3 times and turned people to thinking im a bad controlling manipulator, which im losing my mind figuring out whats the truth, but like I said, some sort of closure other then some condescending hit about me needing to work my life out myself would be a godsend.)

[Ittookthislong]

ps- I in no way meant to imply that you have a disorder I just am speaking from someone who feels confused when I get communication like this

[HealingSlowly]

to the guilt of walking away and abandoning someone we know DID and still does need us and yet can give us nothing in return... . ugh! it's so painful and yet I think necessary. ... . and worse, perhaps, when I did go NC it was torture. He knows I meant it this time and showed up again and again - just stuff but always emotionally loaded, of course - and then recently again I got another email that was "couched" in work issues but so bizarre and all because it was emotionally loaded again. I responded, professionally, AND copied other colleagues. NC is one of the most painful things I have ever had to do in my life, perhaps the most painful. I truly loved and love this person but my guilt about no-contact is about ME and me only finally. If/when I resume contact or have in the past, it has only meant more heartbreak. I cannot take it. ... . Seems to me, and this may be the case with my ex (from some rumours I've hear), the BPD will move on to someone else if they haven't already... . I was/am here and the one in T. I get it all in terms of saying look, let's put all of our issues on the table and be honest ... . it has never worked... Ever... . After what is now close to three years. ... . I was for a long time stuck in the "love will prevail" mode. There is love, all over the place, but it does not prevail. Not in my case... . And I cannot feel guilty about this anymore. I have turned myself inside out figuring out MY co-dependence, but I am not BPD. I HAVE hit rock-bottom and my ex needs to as well. I just don't believe he ever will. And that is the difference between us... . If he does, I will be sorrowfully happy for him. What that would mean for us is such a moot point b/c it has not happened! And until or unless it does, nothing matters... . except no longer enabling ourselves or others and moving on with the hard-learned lessons... . It's so sad, isn't it! But maybe this is all really healthy too, so I am learning too... . (I have been "warned" that two new replies were posted as I was typing... . need to crash out but will read tomorrow and thank you all for all the great dialogue and honesty!)

[causticdork]

Thanks guys.  I think that, as non BPDs, we seek closure.  I think it's a pretty normal thing for a human being to desire, especially when an intense relationship comes to an end.  I'm starting to think that maybe BPD makes closure impossible though, because I've had multiple conversations with my ex where we had what I thought was closure or a resolution, and it never stuck.  Closure requires an emotional regularity that they don't possess. So I can talk till I'm blue in the face and no matter how much progress we make, when she gets triggered none of it will mean a thing.

I would really like to see what my ex is like when she's clean and sober.  I wonder if the person I fell in love with is the person she really is when her addiction/disorder aren't taking over, or if the real her is someone else entirely.

[VeryFree]

I would really like to see what my ex is like when she's clean and sober.  I wonder if the person I fell in love with is the person she really is when her addiction/disorder aren't taking over, or if the real her is someone else entirely.

I also really wanted to know this. But to be honoust: you will never know, unless the pwBPD will heal.

Untill then it's projecting, mirroring and there will be no way to tell who she really is.

Probably all of the behaviour is hers, but probably none of the behaviours is hers.

She is BPD.

[Learning_curve74]

I would really like to see what my ex is like when she's clean and sober.  I wonder if the person I fell in love with is the person she really is when her addiction/disorder aren't taking over, or if the real her is someone else entirely.

She is ALREADY the real her. Isn't accepting that the true "closure"?

What our exes might possibly become is not reality. It's wishful thinking. I know now that's what kept me trapped in an unhealthy relationship.

[causticdork]

It's more curiosity than anything.  I realized the Catch 22 of our ever giving the relationship another shot is that I don't believe she would want to if she were really healthy.  If she went through enough therapy and got to a better state of mind I think she'd see that our relationship is not something that can be salvaged. So long as she's pressing for a romantic reconciliation, I'll assume she's still sick and clinging. 

[seeking balance]

Caustic - do I understand the facts of the situation clearly?

- you ended it with her

- she has a new very serious girlfriend

- she wants to be back with you

- you want to be friends only

- she is not in treatment

- you are not in treatment

- you think she has an addiction problem

- you think if she were not BPD or an addict, she would understand it is better to only be friends

- you are seeking closure

- you are back in contact with her

- you have not studied the communication tools and effectively use them when you are in contact with her

- you are gathering info for her to go to treatment

- she has not indicated she wants to go to treatment

Please let me know if I am misunderstanding some of the facts here so we can all be on the same page.

Thanks!

[causticdork]

Okay, so... .

-I did end things

-She HAD a serious boyfriend, but broke up with him, which I think is why she contacted me (I didn't know that at the time of contact)

-I want to be friends

-She is not in treatment

-I am currently calling around trying to find a T, but haven't been to one yet

-She absolutely has an addiction problem. Has lost a job and been to jail because of it

-I think she might understand better if she weren't high and disregulated

-I would love closure, but I think I need to accept that I'll never get it

-She contacted me and we were speaking for the last two days

-I have studied the tools, and sometimes used them effectively. Not always, for sure.

-I gathered lots of info, she told me she didn't need treatment

-When we first broke up she told me she needed/wanted to go to treatment, but I guess she's changed her mind since then

In the last day things have changed a lot, she only took about 24 hours to go from missing me and wanting to be friends to hating me again.  I was thinking I probably needed to go back toNC anyway, but she decided we shouldn't be friends, so I just took that as saving me the guilt of walking away from her and I wished her well.  She did wind up reading the letter after we spoke and her response was something along the lines of, "I don't know how to respond. I guess I agree."   

[momtara]

Hmmm, do you feel any better?

I think it's good that you said what you wanted and needed to say.  Now you won't always wonder.  And she actually read it and said "I guess I agree."  In the long run it's hard to know what will happen, but you can always know that you did the right thing.

[seeking balance]

Thanks for clarifying all the info above - just wanted to make sure I wasn't confusing your facts with someone else.

In the last day things have changed a lot, she only took about 24 hours to go from missing me and wanting to be friends to hating me again.  I was thinking I probably needed to go back toNC anyway, but she decided we shouldn't be friends, so I just took that as saving me the guilt of walking away from her and I wished her well.  She did wind up reading the letter after we spoke and her response was something along the lines of, "I don't know how to respond. I guess I agree."   

I don't really think I understand the definition you have of closure - what more does closure look like for you?

[causticdork]

I think I have as much closure as I'll ever get, but I guess it doesn't feel like real closure when the last thing she says to me is some petty dig about some stupid thing she's  angry over.  I got more closure than most people here, I know.  My ideal situation would have been parting ways without all the nasty texts from her.  I've learned it's best not to strike back when she starts listing off all the stuff she hates about me, so I tried to keep discourse civil, but she just kept escalating and trying to get me to fight so I asked her flat-out if she wanted to stay friends or not.  She said she was better off without me.  I told her I wouldn't contact her again and I wished her well.  She sent me a few more mean texts that I didn't respond to, and that's where we left things.  I think it's where we'll always leave things no matter how many times we try and talk it out.  I'm learning to accept that. 

[seeking balance]

  She said she was better off without me. 

This looks to me like closure - believe people when they tell you something like this.  They mean it even if you don't want to hear it.

Closure is not always friendly - usually in a breakup someone has hurt feelings... . that is normal actually.

Closure is the reason why it is over - since you ended it, it seems you are the one who had enough information to close that door, right?  Acceptance looks like letting that information dictate your future behavior.

I told her I wouldn't contact her again and I wished her well.  She sent me a few more mean texts that I didn't respond to, and that's where we left things.  I think it's where we'll always leave things no matter how many times we try and talk it out.  I'm learning to accept that. 

I bolded this for you - you are totally right.

I know you wanted to be friends with her and I am sorry it has not worked out the way you wished.   

Not everyone needs or should be friends with an ex for a variety of reasons.  It is sometimes more healthy for BOTH people and for future relationships to not be friends.  Especially if the bond is very intense - let's face it BPD relationships are intense.

So, what now for you?  Al-Anon?  Therapy?

[ucmeicu2]

I hate abandoning people I care about. I hate the idea of leaving her all alone, though I know that it's what she needs if she ever wants to get better. 

hi CD, you and your experience with your BPDgf are highly relate-able to me and my xBPDgf.  but sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.  so, i copy/pasted what seems to be a distillation of what you're going through. 

this may be a hard pill to swallow and forgive me if it's too blunt, but can you see that you are (based on what you've said, see above) you are doing all this for you, not her?  you say it all in those 2 sentences.

BTDT... . been there done (and STILL doing) that    ,

icu2

[causticdork]

@ucmeicu2 -- For sure, the guilt is my own issue and one I need to deal with.  I agree that my desire to eliminate that feeling of guilt has been my strongest motivator, even when I'm trying to do what's best for her.  How are you doing with yours?  Any contact or trying to stay away?

Next for me... . Not sure.  Definitely want to find a therapist just to deal with some of those core issues that make me seek out these types of relationships.  When I was trying to be her friend I was looking into Al-Anon, but since we're not speaking anymore I don't know how much good it would do.  I have a history of dating mentally unstable/emotionally unavailable women, but she's the only addict I've ever been with, so I think Al-Anon would be focusing too much on her instead of on me.   If I start to feel like I need to rescue her again then I might try checking out a meeting.  Right now I'm feeling pretty solid.  I said what I needed to say, and she heard and agreed with it before she got angry and decided not to speak to me anymore.   

[seeking balance]

Next for me... . Not sure.  Definitely want to find a therapist just to deal with some of those core issues that make me seek out these types of relationships.  When I was trying to be her friend I was looking into Al-Anon, but since we're not speaking anymore I don't know how much good it would do.  I have a history of dating mentally unstable/emotionally unavailable women, but she's the only addict I've ever been with, so I think Al-Anon would be focusing too much on her instead of on me.   If I start to feel like I need to rescue her again then I might try checking out a meeting.  Right now I'm feeling pretty solid.  I said what I needed to say, and she heard and agreed with it before she got angry and decided not to speak to me anymore.   

CODA - same 12 steps, focused specifically about relationships.  May help with the pattern of choosing emotionally unavailable ladies.

Good luck to you!

[ucmeicu2]

@ucmeicu2 -- For sure, the guilt is my own issue and one I need to deal with.  I agree that my desire to eliminate that feeling of guilt has been my strongest motivator, even when I'm trying to do what's best for her. 

phew, i'm glad that was rcv'd ok by you.  after i posted i got concerned it was too harsh when i noticed you're a newbie here like me.   

How are you doing with yours?  Any contact or trying to stay away?

i have had NC w/her for 5 months and at times have felt like i might die from it.  or like i wanted to die.  NC has not been easy b/c she kept calling my best friend, who eventually blocked her.   ... . but i am getting better, slowly.

re  al-anon:  i'm pretty sure that al-anon is still a good resource, even if a friendship or r/s isn't current or on-going.  

[ucmeicu2]

@ucmeicu2 -- For sure, the guilt is my own issue and one I need to deal with.  I agree that my desire to eliminate that feeling of guilt has been my strongest motivator, even when I'm trying to do what's best for her. 

the info in this pdf blew me away.  maybe you'll also find it helpful. 

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf 

this passage esp hits home for me (the bold is added by me): 

"Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

We also need to question your own motives and your expectations for wanting to help.  Is this kindness or a type “well intentioned” manipulation on your part

- an attempt to change them to better serve the relationship as opposed to addressing the lifelong wounds from which the

y suffer? More importantly, what does this suggest about our own survival instincts – we’re injured, in ways we may not even fully

grasp, and it’s important to attend to our own wounds before we are attempt to help anyone else.

You are damaged. Right now, your primary responsibility really needs to be to yourself – your own emotional survival.  If your partner tries to lean on you, it’s a greater kindness that you step away.  Difficult, no doubt, but more responsible.

   icu2

[causticdork]

Yeah, I got a barrage of nasty, angry texts from her yesterday.  I know how she explodes into a fit of rage when I ignore her, and we had only been NC for about an hour at the time anyway, so I decided to try something new.  I used the SET tools, and replied to all her angry accusations by telling her I understood she was upset and that I wished her well and hoped she found her happiness.  She tried to bait me repeatedly, and when she saw that I wasn't going to fight she eventually gave up and reiterated that we shouldn't speak to each other anymore.  I told her that was probably for the best, and to take care of herself, and that was it.  She's texted a couple times today to let me know she found a power cord I'd been looking for for the past few months, and to arrange to give it to a mutual friend, and that was it. 

Who knows what will happen from here on out.  I've read the 10 Beliefs, and the one you bolded, along with The Belief That if You Say it Louder You'll Be Heard were the ones that resonated with me the most.  I'm taking things one day at a time for now.

[Perfidy]

Wow... Reading through this shed some light on behavior from "the ex" and explained why I had feelings like I was in a no win situation. The part about us being the triggers. Sure felt like there was not a thing I could do about it. She was addicted to meth. She yelled at me after we broke up "YOU MADE ME WANT TO USE". Now I know it is typical addict behavior to blame anyone but themselves, however, another time she told me that she relapsed because of how bad she hurt me. Another time I had a fire and my place burned to the ground. She told me she relapsed then too. Her bad behavior seems to be set off by anything about me. She also lies about everything so who knows what the truth really is.

[LoneWolf768]

caustic, my therapist also recommended writing letters and not sending them. She also suggested I keep a journal and write in it every night, even if my thoughts/feelings were the same the night before. While I haven't done either this time around, it's probably best I do. Sometimes, when I'm home and relaxing, I imagine things I'd say to her if I were to ever have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart with my ex BPD'er. These are the times when I should follow what you're doing and art writing the letters and keep the journal. I'd actually forgotten about both of those so for what it's worth, Thank You for helping to job my memory a little! I hope you're getting better with each passing day, too.