Did we date them because of past trauma or just our naïveté?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm so torn up trying to find out why I stayed. I realized that this is more about me than her behavior.

As a novice here, I'd love to label her as BPD to make her behavior less personal but regardless of the title, her behavior is unacceptable and downright wrong. I'd love to hear that she won't be better and that deep down despite her crazy BPD, she realizes that I was good and that she will miss me. Those thoughts are just as toxic to my recovery as trying to contact her again.

Where my problem lies is the fact that I've read on so many websites, even on here many members say that we stayed in this relationship because we have some sort of past trauma, usually stemming from our parental bonds.

My question is,could we just have been naive? Or is dating a pwBPD an almost sure sign that we have core trauma?

[Iamdizzy]

I'm so torn up trying to find out why I stayed. I realized that this is more about me than her behavior.

As a novice here, I'd love to label her as BPD to make her behavior less personal but regardless of the title, her behavior is unacceptable and downright wrong. I'd love to hear that she won't be better and that deep down despite her crazy BPD, she realizes that I was good and that she will miss me. Those thoughts are just as toxic to my recovery as trying to contact her again.

Where my problem lies is the fact that I've read on so many websites, even on here many members say that we stayed in this relationship because we have some sort of past trauma, usually stemming from our parental bonds.

My question is,could we just have been naive? Or is dating a pwBPD an almost sure sign that we have core trauma?

[Iamdizzy]

I feel as if, in my case I was a nice guy, I didn't want to be a jerk like the many other guys before her. I thought with my uhm... . Genitalia rather than my rational head (). I wasn't trying to save her or rescue her. I was so stupid and naive. I've read so many stories and websites and it's as if they push towards this "you most likely have past issues because of your parents". What about just being young and stupid?

[Perfidy]

I am far from an expert on the subject but here goes. If it becomes a clear pattern of abuse and you stay, you might be a non.

[Undone123]

BOTH

[charred]

If you stayed in the r/s for a long period of time, there must be some reason. An emotionally mature person doesn't usually stay with an immature one that acts out in the way a pwBPD does very long. My exBPDgf had a number of short flings where the guy met her, liked her, slept with her and realized she was a bit of a basket case and they moved on, without deep hurting or issues. Just as normal people sometimes hook up and go separate ways.

The "it goes back to your childhood" stuff and the "r/s breakup was devastating experience"... those are explanatory for people who did not have the experience of just splitting with the pwBPD because they seemed off, or that didn't heed all the   .

Me for instance... I met my exBPDgf about 30 yrs ago, fell for her and was dumped and was nearly suicidal. She showed up across the street hanging on a neighbor and I was nearly homicidal, showed up again like that and I packed up, left my business, family, the city I grew up in and moved away to keep what little sanity I had. It was a good 5 yrs before I was dating again normally. Was married for over 20 yrs and ran across my exgf again and ended up getting a divorce to be with her... losing a second job, 1/2 of everything I had accumulated (divorce)... and we went round and round, recycled about 7 times before I threw in the towel.

So the giant question I had... WHY... what was it that kept the electricity strong for over 25 yrs? I had dated over 20 women and only one... the pwBPD had that bizarre turn my life upside down and ruin it effect, and she told me she was diagnosed BPD... and that started to explain it, finding out how attachment theory works and realizing that people who lose parents have very similar reactions to many of us whose BPD r/s breakup pulled the pieces together.

So, yes you very well could date and have sex with a BPD person and have no great attachment, and have no reason or need for this site. But lots of us have been through a world of hurt in a r/s that often makes no sense, yet we were driven to keep trying to make it work.

[Clearmind]

Core trauma is a pretty intense term – a negative experience to the extreme – folks hear trauma and immediately think “no, that didn’t happen to me!” – dysfunctional childhood maybe a more apt term describing it more generally.

I was naïve and had poor relationship skills, poor man picker and just needed to be needed. Is this due to naïveté or a dysfunctional childhood?

I say both and my dysfunctional childhood came first.

We all learn, model our relationship skills from our care givers//parents.

[charred]

I certainly had a dysfunctional childhood in addition to being naive when I first dated my pwBPD. Was also a bit of a horndog and she was a hot big chested blonde that seemed enthusiastic about sex... . pretty easy to see how I rationalized wanting to be with her despite a few pesky streaks of insanity. Many years later when I got back with her, was much less naive and the result was even more friction and issues, as I was not as trusting in my late 40's as I was in my early 20's... . and she was not really hot anymore... in fact I couldn't understand why the attraction still existed and was intense as ever.

Most people are not familiar enough with PD's in my opinion to recognize, identify and steer clear of someone with them... . why would they be?

Attachment theory holds that you seek out what you grew up with, and that puts those of us with dysfunctional childhoods looking for dysfunctional partners. Sounded Freudian... you want to date your mother or father... . but the electricity you feel is usually from that pattern you are used to firing off something in you... and it is naive to think it is true love... . however it is very common to think it, I did over and over. I am wondering if there is such a thing as love at first sight... . there is certainly an intense attraction between certain dysfunctional people at first sight... . not very romantic sounding to put it that way. Seeing it as naïveté may be right on the money.

How many people think Romeo and Juliet is really romantic? Seen a meme that nailed it... it is a story of a 13 yr old and a 16 yr old's 3 day fling that left 6 people dead.  That isn't romance, it is a tragedy that touched lots of people... . like BPD has.

 

[Hazelrah]

I also had a dysfunctional childhood.  My father left us when I was about a year old, which pretty much identifies where my own fear of abandonment comes from.  Mom remarried, and growing up I really had a hard time dealing with my step-father, who was an alcoholic, though I didn't realize it at the time.  He blamed all my parents' nasty fights on me (namely, because they differed in their opinions on how a child should be raised), and he even told me a number of times around the age of 12 or 13 that they were going to divorce because of me.  Now this never happened, and as an adult I've come to develop a good relationship with my step-dad as he has mellowed greatly over the years.  However, it probably goes without saying that my self-esteem has been shot ever since I was a child.

My separated BPDw filled the hole that was missing in me in regards to my self-love and self-worth.  I didn't know what BPD was... . all I knew was that this was the most attentive and loving woman I'd ever met.  That was before I knew how dysfunctional she was, but by that time I was hooked.  My fear of abandonment was eased as it just seemed implausible that someone who 'loved' me so much could ever leave... . until, of course, she actually did. 

[charred]

I also had a dysfunctional childhood.  My father left us when I was about a year old, which pretty much identifies where my own fear of abandonment comes from.  Mom remarried, and growing up I really had a hard time dealing with my step-father, who was an alcoholic, though I didn't realize it at the time.  He blamed all my parents' nasty fights on me (namely, because they differed in their opinions on how a child should be raised), and he even told me a number of times around the age of 12 or 13 that they were going to divorce because of me.  Now this never happened, and as an adult I've come to develop a good relationship with my step-dad as he has mellowed greatly over the years.  However, it probably goes without saying that my self-esteem has been shot ever since I was a child.

My separated BPDw filled the hole that was missing in me in regards to my self-love and self-worth.  I didn't know what BPD was... . all I knew was that this was the most attentive and loving woman I'd ever met.  That was before I knew how dysfunctional she was, but by that time I was hooked.  My fear of abandonment was eased as it just seemed implausible that someone who 'loved' me so much could ever leave... . until, of course, she actually did. 

Pretty similar story here as far as the pwBPD coming in and seeming like most loving woman I had met... . right up till she turned in to the most angry one I have met, and she was that far more than the loving one. Confused me to no end. Even after pretty well understanding it, I still have a hard time some days keeping from missing her and wanting her back. But after 7-8 recycles and lots of devastation, it clearly isn't working and is a toxic r/s.

Part of the more recent attachment theory stuff holds that kids do whatever they have to in order to preserve love for their parents. If the parent is abuse that can be turning the blame on themselves, it can be projecting it elsewhere... . in addition they tend to disconnect from the painful emotions and often keep doing so as a coping mechanism. If that is early enough you can end up with BPD from it, if later the symptoms change. Being constantly anxious/fearful/avoidant in behavior when combined with a dysfunctional childhood points to need to get some help. It took the horror of the BPD r/s crashing over and over to finally get me to see someone and really try to sort out issues. But I had gone from office superstar/loner, to divorced, 50 yr old loner with no friends, and finding little joy in anything before really setting out to address my own issues. I took pride in never needing help, in being independent and in being smart. Told now that I had shame about needing help and had a false ego around not needing help, that in my r/s I tend to be codependent and people pleasing, not independent, and that while I am smart... I have used intellectualizing and studying and learning and books as a diversion from connecting with people and having true intimacy... and how smart is that really?

[Just Stumbling Along]

Just my thoughts, and from my experience with my relationship with my uBPD stbXW

I didn't have traumas from childhood.  I believe I had/have character traits that left me vulnerable.  I am caring and like to help others.  Had I met another Non, possibly would not have been a real issue, but dealing with a pwBPD, I became a caretaker and enabler.  I have realized that over time, the more she "took" the more I "gave".

I had no real knowledge about PD and had no real ideas of what to look for.  Had no knowledge that she could seem so normal and functional, but be so dysfunctional.  She acted very normal around other people (in most visible ways)  so it was difficult to "get" that she is not normal.  She didn't wear "tin foil hats" or talk about aliens, etc.

Because of the chaos and impulsivity, there was always something happening that the rages and bizarre behavior could be attributed to.  Lack of knowledge about PD, I failed to put the pieces together.  Instead, I was always thinking that she just doesn't handle stress well and when we get past (current event/s) she will be fine.

Why is a relationship with a pwBPD so intense?  Mirroring.  She had the ability to present the person that I most desired.  She took everything that I believed was decent, good, desirable, etc. and reflected that back to me.  There is also a component that she was so "into me"  she loved everything I said, thought, everything that I am and everything about me.  The relationship is, in truth, completely false; but it seems so real, so complete.  It is like falling in love with your other half.

My "soul mate" kept making appearances.  Again, lack of PD knowledge causes me to believe that this is the "real" her so if we get through this, ... . . Truth is there was no REAL.  My Soul mate was no more true or valid than the "you never loved me, You've never done anything for me" her.

Her profound deceitfulness.  She lied constantly and always so earnestly.  she appeared so honest.  In the end I would end up explaining things away because I had no evidence, just things that did not add up; but she was so convincing with her explanation.

So maybe the answer is a very complicated both.  I, for myself, believe it was mostly the pwBPD and all her antics.  But I also think I have things to deal with and certainly have a lot to learn about where to draw the line and how to tell the difference between PD red flags and normal life oddities.

[frustrated b/f]

To me it was simple, I thought I was in love and life led me to this woman. I kept thinking it was just meant to be given the circumstances that led to me moving to where we met. In all actuality, I was just desperate to have something beautiful and constant in my life no matter how disruptive it was.

[Perfidy]

Seven and a half years I lived this horrible nightmare. All of that. The mirroring, the lies, the fake emotions. Abuse. All my choice. Subtle and insidious are two words that describe it well but don't even come close to complete descriptions. I feel permanently damaged for this. Something that won't ever heal.

[Iamdizzy]

I thought, oh god how cliche, but I thought it was fate the type of nonsense you see on how I met your mother. The had I not gone to that specific place that specific day and time, I would of never met her. I guess in my case, being raised by a loving mother and grandmother, I was always taught to be a chivalrous gentleman. Although their intentions were obviously in the right place, it caused me in the case to put up with a lot of her bullsh1t because I grew  up with those values. Coupled with being surrounded by her proxies who give me the whole "understand her please she has never loved anyone more than you"

[careman]

Here is my take on this:

We are equipped with a palette of emotions and behaviors that are evoked in different life situations. Just being there, in situations out of our control, like a car accident, caught in a tsunami, etc bring forward emotions and behaviors in response to the situation at hand - as a reaction.

In relationships normally we give and take, we influence and we adapt mutually. What happens is a result of both parties ability thereto - as a creation

Our BPD partners also have a palette of emotions and behaviors, however lacking in scales of grey. Further, the choice of color from the palette seems to be run by a pendulum swinging from one end of the palette to the other. The swinging increases with stress. Stress increases with our mere presence. The pendulum is out of our control. So our BPD partners mood and behavior swings as a consequence of our being there - i.e. a situation out of our control.

While we believe we are in a relationship (endorsed by the, customized to our liking, masterfully tailored disguise of the inner workings of the pendulum) and expects a mutual give and take - evolving as a creation, in reality we are in a situation out of our control - reacting. Our false belief calls out relationship responses from the palette, which are not proper responses given that we are not in a relationship, but rather a situation out of our control.  An example of a proper response would be for instance to walk away.

Naivite: Well, what else can we believe than that we were in a relationship. In my case I had no conception of PD and what it entails being near one. Now I know better - it was a hard won lesson.

Past trauma: For as long as we stick/cling to the belief we were in a relationship, perhaps we are run by such. As for me, I'm still struggling... .

/Careman

[BlushAndBashful]

I'm sticking to my guns with naïveté.  My ex was HF and had ZERO of those red flags that supposedly are so obviously waving in our faces. He didn't have rages or do serious OMGWhat the heck things (at least, not for quite a few years).  If you want to really nit-pick, one could point out the bad choices I made, why I wanted him back, how I let my boundaries slide a bit, etc. But no- He seems to be an absolute rock of stability, cool as a cucumber, all-around great guy.

I knew nothing of PD's, nothing of Borderline, and never even dreamed of a condition where someone can be so incredibly squared away in every facet of life, except for that pesky relationship rollercoaster.

I don't have a history of family dysfunction, didn't have a rough childhood, and don't have any sort of lonely child/little lost girl/whatever inside.