I'm done with T

[Mutt]

I made a decision today that I'm done with my T. I'm currently waiting for my first court appearance after serving my wife with custody papers for the kids, after she cancelled mediation numerous times and now she's planning on leaving the city and possibly living over 600km away from me. I am going Pro Se as I have no funds for a lawyer, Pro Bono don't do Family Law in my city and Legal Aid won't help because I make too much.

I decided I've had enough with trying to work on anything that has to do with my wife (with a T) as she is undiagnosed and the information or skills that I keep getting are for people that are normal. I'll give you an example. It was suggested to me to ask her if she wants to go to counseling "just for the kids" so that we can try to work on some parenting issues. My wife doesn't work that way. She will only do something if it regards her needs and since she left several months ago I have made no progress with her, so that is why I decided to go to court.

I've gone to marriage counseling countless times, because know one saw the black and white thinking and the issue was always me according to my wife. Now I'm frustrated because all of the information or things that I have worked on apply to normal people and not of it applies to my situation with someone that is mentally ill. I guess that I feel frustrated because since she isn't diagnosed, it's assumed that she's normal and she's very very far from that. Resources on the internet on how to deal with High Conflict Personalities and Borderlines is much more effective than anything that I have gotten through counseling and therapy. That's my rant.

[Scout99]

I am sorry to hear about your struggles with court and I guess also a lot of worry for your kids in this situation... .

But also for receiving such poor help from your therapist!

Are there any options for you to switch therapist? Since seeing a therapist skilled in dealing with pw BPD might be of greater help for you... . It seems to me that if you feel questioned by your own therapist, your trust in your work together with them will be greatly negatively effected... . Therapy relies on a strong alliance between the therapist and the client, and that seems not to be happening in your case... .

In my country, I am not American, but live in Europe the availability for therapy is much slimmer than where you are. But the trust and the alliance is given high priority so if that can not be established a client or patient can actually request changing therapist, without any extra cost or whatever... .

Maybe there are such possibilities for you too?

I truly wish you all the best with your upcoming custody hearings and all that, but also that you could find some real help... . Remember though that you are not alone in this! We are here for you!

Scout99

[Mutt]

Thank you Scout99. I think I will go back later and deal with my core issues so I don't fall into this steel trap again. I have been talking a lot to my mother, these boards are a tremendous help and there are a lot of resources on the internet about BPD. Slowly I've been making sense in my mind about what really happened while I was in a fog with the ex, but that will take months if not years to really make sense out of all it.

Like I mentioned though, after going to marriage counseling at least 4-5 times during my marriage and I feel like I'm just not being heard. I just don't want to go through this whole process with another therapist again. I think it's more important for me atm to focus my efforts on my kids and custody, than trying to explain BPD behaviors and then get advice that suits normal people. I agree with you, I could go and find someone that specializes in it, but it's always that diagnosis that's an issue.

If few therapists and psychologists want to work with them because they exhaust them, they often get misdiagnosed as depressed or bi-polar, or they get diagnosed as bi-polar for medical benefits and it's detrimental to them if they do get diagnosed, then how does that help non's because they aren't diagnosed. It sounds like things are stacked against us.

[Jep]

I also went to couples counseling for a couple years. It does absolutely no good because the mask they wear is VERY convincing. I found myself working with a psychologist that really had NO idea who he was dealing with or the issues that I faced. It's very hard to work things out with someone who won't take any accountability. Sometimes I would forgive her for things she wouldn't even acknowledge happened. Pretty tough to solve a problem when the other person doesn't even admit it exists.

I guess the therapy is more for ourselves, and they should have some knowledge of BPD, but it should not focus on her. It would not do any good to bring her. There is nothing that can rationally be discussed imo.

[Mutt]

I also went to couples counseling for a couple years. It does absolutely no good because the mask they wear is VERY convincing. I found myself working with a psychologist that really had NO idea who he was dealing with or the issues that I faced. It's very hard to work things out with someone who won't take any accountability. Sometimes I would forgive her for things she wouldn't even acknowledge happened. Pretty tough to solve a problem when the other person doesn't even admit it exists.

I guess the therapy is more for ourselves, and they should have some knowledge of BPD, but it should not focus on her. It would not do any good to bring her. There is nothing that can rationally be discussed imo.

Couples counseling doesn't work because they can't meet you halfway. Every session that I took it was about how I was the problem and I was confused with some of the things that my wife was bringing up because it wasn't issues and it felt like everything was distorted. I did get upset and frustrated a few times in counseling and they were taking her side as if I was the problem. It doesn't work because it's not 50/50. It's 100% your fault and I agree, they are very convincing.

I stay away from the BPD stuff as much as possible, but I have mentioned on how difficult she is with discussing things about the kids and how my wife is sarcastic, taunts, laughs and is aggressive with me and I get sucked in. I was asking her on ways to communicate and to not let myself get sucked in, but when I'm told to try to communicate with her (in a co-parenting type of way) I know that it simply doesn't work like that with my wife. She's about my way or the highway, irregardless if it helps the kids or not. I feel like I'm better off on my own, not to become friends with her, parallel parent and low contact and about kids only. Nothing that was suggested by the T, but legwork I have done on my own by researching on the internet.

I described some pretty crazy and abusive things and I'm given answers that are suitable for logical situations. You can't reason with crazy.

I've even done what the T suggested tonight by simply asking my wife how the situation with the kids is going to work out when she moves and her response is "I don't know, I guess it depends on how courts work out." She had said her subsidy on her place is up in November and she's not staying there and moving. I asked her again if she plans on staying there if court isn't settled and I she responds by asking me to send back a shirt that's my daughters this weekend. It's stuff like this.

[frustrated b/f]

reach out to the State Bar association in your state for a network of attorneys who do pro bono or reduced fee cases. You NEED an attorney, especially if she has one.

I went through my divorce alone, only to need an attorney later to fix something I did wrong. My divorce inspired me to go to law school to help divorcing dads with situations similar to mine.

Best of luck

[Mutt]

reach out to the State Bar association in your state for a network of attorneys who do pro bono or reduced fee cases. You NEED an attorney, especially if she has one.

I went through my divorce alone, only to need an attorney later to fix something I did wrong. My divorce inspired me to go to law school to help divorcing dads with situations similar to mine.

Best of luck

Thanks. I just got off the phone with a consultation with a lawyer through my employee program. I agree with him and you and I need a lawyer. I'm in the process of retaining one. I gave him the history of what's going on and I'm hopeful now that I can get what the kids need. Thank you for sharing your story and the sage advice.

[Mutt]

Thanks again frustrated b/f. I just retained a lawyer today.  

[So hurt]

No judge likes a person in court without a lawyer. There are things you can do without a lawyer to a point, then you have to find a way to pony up the money. DO as much paper work as you can on your own. The people in the  court house can help you with the papers but are not allowed to give you legal information.

I interviewed 3 lawyers before I found one that wasn't trying to dig into my pockets or promote fighting so they can make more money. I had to pay for two lawyer consultation and am glad I didn't use them but I picked there brains and got my money's worth.

Also, on the net you can search out info on state laws. Start and keep a paper trail of events. The courts and judges love a paper trail. It enables them to make descions and not on just he said she said.

This is your life and no one will advocate for you  unless you advocate for yourself. You will end up paying one way or the other. It is a rotten fact but I have had to come to those conclusions and I really don't have money for a lawyer. I can't afford not to have a lawyer. The courts will set the precedent for the future. good luck.

[WhenWiLLitEnd]

I made a decision today that I'm done with my T. I'm currently waiting for my first court appearance after serving my wife with custody papers for the kids, after she cancelled mediation numerous times and now she's planning on leaving the city and possibly living over 600km away from me. I am going Pro Se as I have no funds for a lawyer, Pro Bono don't do Family Law in my city and Legal Aid won't help because I make too much.

I decided I've had enough with trying to work on anything that has to do with my wife (with a T) as she is undiagnosed and the information or skills that I keep getting are for people that are normal. I'll give you an example. It was suggested to me to ask her if she wants to go to counseling "just for the kids" so that we can try to work on some parenting issues. My wife doesn't work that way. She will only do something if it regards her needs and since she left several months ago I have made no progress with her, so that is why I decided to go to court.

I've gone to marriage counseling countless times, because know one saw the black and white thinking and the issue was always me according to my wife. Now I'm frustrated because all of the information or things that I have worked on apply to normal people and not of it applies to my situation with someone that is mentally ill. I guess that I feel frustrated because since she isn't diagnosed, it's assumed that she's normal and she's very very far from that. Resources on the internet on how to deal with High Conflict Personalities and Borderlines is much more effective than anything that I have gotten through counseling and therapy. That's my rant.

Could not say it any better myself.

That is exactly how I feel also.

[sanemom]

Mutt,

I am glad you are getting a lawyer.  I am sorry therapy is not working.  Perhaps direct your therapist to the Bill Eddy's page or something so they can learn something.  It would be good to have more therapists educated on these issues.  So many can become negative advocates, which can hurt our cases in court.  Even if it doesn't help with your therapy, maybe it will help when that therapist runs across someone else with similar issues.

[Mutt]

Mutt,

I am glad you are getting a lawyer.  I am sorry therapy is not working.  Perhaps direct your therapist to the Bill Eddy's page or something so they can learn something.  It would be good to have more therapists educated on these issues.  So many can become negative advocates, which can hurt our cases in court.  Even if it doesn't help with your therapy, maybe it will help when that therapist runs across someone else with similar issues.

Thanks for the suggestion about Bill Eddy. I think I came across him through my vast search on the internet for BPD. I'm just done with all of 'em. I think I went to at least 25 to 30 separate couples counselling sessions and probably just as many on my own at the same time and not one of them detected black and white thinking, being blamed all of the time etc... . I'm disappointed every time I hear "yes, but has she been diagnose?" From my T. It was a it was a family member that suggested that she was BPD. It's like trying to use a chef's knife to hammer a nail. I need a break from T. I'll go back to work on just me and why I felt for this steel trap and how to better myself and work on my core issues.

As far as a lawyer. It wasn't until the last consultation that I had with a lawyer and he said, you could be very good with fixing a car, but if there's something big, take your car to a mechanic. Expensive as hell, but short term pain for long term gain. If I don't have a lawyer and I'm up against a HCP/BPD, I feel like I'm walking into a lion's den at court.

[livednlearned]

If I don't have a lawyer and I'm up against a HCP/BPD, I feel like I'm walking into a lion's den at court.

I hired a good lawyer. N/BPDxh is a lawyer and represented himself in court. My L ate him for lunch.

Just like with Ts, the trick is to find a good L.

[Forestaken]

Can your L request that she pay for your services? My uBPD+dOCD s2bx's L did it to me.

[Mutt]

I hired a good lawyer. N/BPDxh is a lawyer and represented himself in court. My L ate him for lunch. [/quote]
Wow. I was scared because of how manipulative and sincere she can be. But she doesn't make sense with her logic and lies often. That's her achilles heal.

I hired a good lawyer. N/BPDxh is a lawyer and represented himself in court. My L ate him for lunch.

Just like with Ts, the trick is to find a good L.

That's good to know and wow. I feel anxiety because of manipulative and sincere her act is. Not to mention that smearing. But, and I'm guessing with your xh that it's the lying and nonsensical reasoning that got him nixed.  I don't know what to expect in court and it's next week.

Can your L request that she pay for your services? My uBPD+dOCD s2bx's L did it to me.

I had not thought of that and now I'm going to ask L.

[livednlearned]

That's good to know and wow. I feel anxiety because of manipulative and sincere her act is. Not to mention that smearing. But, and I'm guessing with your xh that it's the lying and nonsensical reasoning that got him nixed.  I don't know what to expect in court and it's next week.

Don't let down your guard about her, but yes -- the nonsensical reasoning can get them in trouble. And N/BPDx is very narcissistic, so he couldn't see how disordered his thinking was. I think representing himself just amplified the nuttiness.

You have to be a good client, in addition to having a good L. That means advocating for yourself. Don't let your L do all the driving. Make sure your goals are clear, and that you have a strategy to get there. Don't agree to anything you don't want to, and always know you can take 24 hours to think through major decisions, even when there is a ton of pressure to sign something right away.

[Mutt]

You have to be a good client, in addition to having a good L. That means advocating for yourself. Don't let your L do all the driving. Make sure your goals are clear, and that you have a strategy to get there. Don't agree to anything you don't want to, and always know you can take 24 hours to think through major decisions, even when there is a ton of pressure to sign something right away.

Thank you so much for the information livednlearned. I will be putting this to use.