Do you really think they left out of fear of abandonment?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I walked out on my BPDbf one night when he was being a raging a$$hole. Just couldn't take it anymore and got up and left. He ended it the next day. Said I had left him with the worst sort of uncertainty. He said he knew I'd walk out again... . due to his stupidity... . and he was afraid of how he would react the next time. And that after my BPxhb I didnt need to deal with his anger issues. There was a lot of push pull going on in the few weeks leading up to it.  I was feeling very insecure. We had been at dinner earlier and he was being a jerk and as we were leaving he said he was sorry, just irritable all day, "I love you you know.". But later at his house he started in on me again. I was convinced he orchestrated the BU. Especially because he was so "done" afterwards. But now I'm wondering... . was it really about his fear of abandonment?  Is it always about that with them?  The BU hasn't been easy on him either. I know that. It probably shouldn't matter to me but it does. It means I mattered to him.  I'd like to take him at his word. But I have a hard time believing him. Should I?

[Emelie Emelie]

I walked out on my BPDbf one night when he was being a raging a$$hole. Just couldn't take it anymore and got up and left. He ended it the next day. Said I had left him with the worst sort of uncertainty. He said he knew I'd walk out again... . due to his stupidity... . and he was afraid of how he would react the next time. And that after my BPxhb I didnt need to deal with his anger issues. There was a lot of push pull going on in the few weeks leading up to it.  I was feeling very insecure. We had been at dinner earlier and he was being a jerk and as we were leaving he said he was sorry, just irritable all day, "I love you you know.". But later at his house he started in on me again. I was convinced he orchestrated the BU. Especially because he was so "done" afterwards. But now I'm wondering... . was it really about his fear of abandonment?  Is it always about that with them?  The BU hasn't been easy on him either. I know that. It probably shouldn't matter to me but it does. It means I mattered to him.  I'd like to take him at his word. But I have a hard time believing him. Should I?

[peas]

I am convinced they leave because of a fear abandonment.

Early in the r/s he showed me the depths of his emotional problems. He was under a lot of stress and got hammered one night when we were hanging out together. Night started out great, then just went into bad territory. That's when I first saw the Jekyll/Hyde thing, his irrational thoughts, his jealousy and his anger. After some epic fighting with me, he passed out in the couch. The next morning he found me in his bed sleeping and he started crying. Why? Because I stayed. He couldn't believe I stayed after his meltdown.

I would stay for many more meltdowns. I would also stay for empty promises of marriage.

Your breakup sounds so similar to mine. Same timing (six weeks ago, yes?), same situation where I left one night because he raged at me one time too many. Next morning he put my overnight bag on the back porch and texted me to come get it and "we're done."

Back up a few hours before the fight and he was in a good mood, we ordered food delivered, went for a drink at our local bar. He was already half-cocked. Then hell broke loose (started at the bar, continued back at his place), he found something to latch onto for a fight, started with the blaming and said I seriously damaged the r/s. Up to that point I had endured disrespect, emotional abuse and temporary breakups for months. When he was yelling at me that last time, I remember thinking as I walked out the door to a friend's house, "I'm probably killing this relationship by leaving right now. This will very likely be the end of us." 

He had been picking fights more frequently toward the end, shorter fuse, saying more brazen things to deliberately turn me off or push me away, acting suspicious (replacement fishing) and all-around emotionally withdrawing. He totally orchestrated the breakup. I told him that, too. Well, texted, because from that last night on he refused to answer my phone calls. So we had some mean text exchanges -- he got in some last jabs, so did I. 

We've both been silent since.

[Clearmind]

They also leave because of a fear of engulfment and intimacy.

[peas]

Clearmind, I was just going to add that. After I posted my reply I remembered that when a significant other demonstrates commitment to a pwBPD -- the opposite of abandonment -- the pwBPD can't handle that either.

That's when my ex-BPDbf started pushing me away, when I was getting down to put up-or-shut up time and how serious I was about making our r/s work. 

[Emelie Emelie]

Peas:  There are a lot of similarities aren't there?  I thought the same thing when I left that night. But I just had to get out of there... . get away from him. He was being such a jerk and I was beyond hurt.  He didn't try to stop me though. I think he had been ambivalent about the rs for awhile. And to be honest I had been thinking that I had to get out of this. But I loved him. Still love him. And I just couldn't. Now I miss him so much I can't stand it. We have talked up until a week ago. I've seen him twice. But now that I've stopped initiating contact there's been nothing. It's hard. Much harder than I expected. Just can't seem to get it together. Trying to take it one day at a time. Do yOu feel you're further along because you haven't spoken to him?

[peas]

Yes, I do feel further along since I have not had any contact with my expwBPD. Thanks to this support board, I am gaining clarity about my situation.

When I think about how my ex treated me, I feel sorry for myself. I started feeling sorry for myself before we broke up. I imagined myself from the outside looking in at me being bullied. I saw a victim (me) who only had good intentions and was given a cruel person to work with. Watching that victim makes me sad because I don't want to see her hurt anymore. I want to see her smile and hope and trust and dream.

That's why I stick to NC.

[goldylamont]

I'd like to take him at his word. But I have a hard time believing him. Should I?

No. No you should *not* take him on any of his words. Especially now that you have broken up, all the words he says to you at this point are to:

1) inflict the most pain possible to you--and this doesn't mean raging all the time, he knows that by changing the tone and being nice or even apologetic he can then slip in some damaging information under the guise of "friendship". i.e. telling you in the friendliest tone how over the r/s he is or about his latest exploits with other women. doesn't sound like he's there yet, but don't trust the words.

2) to manipulate you--to get you back so he can get more revenge, feel better about himself/self-soothe, or just manipulate you into becoming angry so he can point out that you, in fact, my dear, are the crazy one

don't trust any of his words at all, especially now. if what he's saying feels good, it's probably manipulation. if it feels bad it was meant to hurt you. trust your instincts and gut feelings, *not* this man's words

[goldylamont]

and regarding if they leave b/c of abandonment, from your description it does seem to me that abandonment played some part in things Emelie Emelie. And as Clearmind pointed out perhaps engulfment and intimacy played some role?

I for one sometimes feel that pwBPD get in r/s though, and although they may have some feelings of abandonment or engulfment... . well, they just get bored or tired of the person they are with. and instead of breaking up kindly it's easier for them to be disrespectful, lie and be cruel so that their partner reacts negatively, thus giving them a "reason" to leave an "abusive" person. but that doesn't sound like your situation.

[Clearmind]

Clearmind, I was just going to add that. After I posted my reply I remembered that when a significant other demonstrates commitment to a pwBPD -- the opposite of abandonment -- the pwBPD can't handle that either.

That's when my ex-BPDbf started pushing me away, when I was getting down to put up-or-shut up time and how serious I was about making our r/s work.  

Yes - fear of abandonment/engulfment/intimacy creates the push/pull or "I hate you, don't leave me" - very confusing for a Borderline because the feelings are so paradoxical. Borderlines are very perceptive. My ex knew I was getting very frustrated in the relationship. He left before I could abandon him - which is usually always the case - he came with some very strange excuses to me as to why he wanted to end it. Again shows extreme lack of maturity.

Goldy - Bored? I agree - Mirroring can only be sustained for a period of time - my ex needed shiny and new.

Borderlines don't intentionally manipulate or be mean - there motive is all about control - because they don't have any.

[whatathing]

I for one sometimes feel that pwBPD get in r/s though, and although they may have some feelings of abandonment or engulfment... . well, they just get bored or tired of the person they are with.

I believe it too, and I think that´s because they´re so emotionally immature and incapable of further intimacy, that they can´t experience the pleasure of being connected, of enjoying simple things of life, of opening their selves to another person. Personality disordered people need intense and/or superficial stimulus to take the same amount of interest in things that healthy people have. So, they´re like a child who feels that the person who they are with must be wrong for them, for not being able to maintain that spark in them, and when they spot other potential partners, woth some interesting features, they feel attracted to them like a child to a magician or a clown, and they think that person will meet their need for stimulus. Only they won´t, and there wasn´t nothing lacking in us, the problem is within them, in their own incapability of creating mature bonds.

I´m not sure if this applies more to BPD or to NPD, I think both.

[sadinnc98]

Mine pretty much freaked/panicked every time we had an amazing time together-awesome date, long weekend, vacation... it happened within an hour or two of when we parted... . I am thinking its a combination of fear of intimacy/engulfment and abandonment all mixed together.

[Just Stumbling Along]

I am not so sure.  At least in my case.

We were together for 20 years.  Which is a long time for a BPD.  We did not do the break up/make up, that I was aware of.  I recognize now that there were many, many "stealth break ups" She would paint me black, decide that I was a Jerk (her terminology wasn't so PG), and decided that this relationship is over. Then she does whatever.  Paints me white again, I'm wonderful AND she doesn't have to explain about the break up because I didn't know it happened.

The end was when I became medically disabled.  We were happily planning our future for about 2 weeks.  She went to fax some documents, walked back in  about 2 hours later, and announced that she had decided that we were over and she wanted to be single.

I don't think that it was fear of abandonment, we had been together for so long.  Still, you never know what is bouncing around in there.

So I am not sure if:

a)  she decided that she had used me for all she could get and time to move on to better resources,

b)  she realized that I would be with her most all of the time and engulfment set in.

c)  she realized with me around more, it would be much more difficult to live her "secret life" (frequent outside sex and drugs)

d) some combination of the above

At that time and for a long time, I anguished over all this.  Now, "Who cares".  May your next victim enjoy all that he is about to receive.

[dangoldfool]

whatathing

I agree that because they´re so emotionally immature and incapable of further intimacy, that they can´t experience the pleasure of being connected, of enjoying simple things of life.

My ex started to visit a mutual friend who had a guy friend who my ex became to friendly with. (I call this emotional cheating at least)  As it turned out the sex between us stopped, and she blamed it on varies reason, from hormonal to leg cramps. The reason for the break-up she tells everyone now is I did not want sex. (BS)

But the final straw came down to me wanting her to move to an apartment. Because she was getting her 3 kids from an ex dad of the children. I wanted her to move to an apartment, that I was going to help her with rent, and bills, and see if she could control her kids her self. And introduce me, and my children slowly for a few months. Well I guess she saw that as abandonment.

Of course I was blinded by all of this. I didn't know about the other male friend relationship at that time.

So I guess it all started by her getting bored of me. (no sex) the fact that the relationship was moving into a more serious commitment for the both of us.

(blending of two families). And what she seem to believe as me leaving her. (moving to an apartment).

I saw it as me just protecting myself and my children from possible harm from her kids, that she has not had custody for over 6 years.(who knows how they were going to react).

I feel as if I have just been giving a pardon for a life sentence. This has been one of the biggest mistake in my life. I'm sad that I was a fool for getting into this relationship in the first place. My intention was to help her, and help raiser her kids in a drug free home. I feel sorry for the misunderstanding between the both of us. But in a real healthy relationship. Two people would talk about this stuff, not go make friend with the opposite sex behind your back. Not play like every thing cool while I helping her furnish the apartment. Not lie about the new BF as just a friend. It still hurts but I'm grateful I came out as well as I have.

[danley]

Fear of abandonment plus Fear of engulfment equals the PUSH AND PULL.

Add in the guilt and shame they feel about themselves. This leaves for a dish of disaster for both parties. Doesn't smell or taste good.

[peas]

Mine pretty much freaked/panicked every time we had an amazing time together-awesome date, long weekend, vacation... it happened within an hour or two of when we parted... .

Mine usually freaked the day before a visit or planned awesome time together.

[sadinnc98]

Mine pretty much freaked/panicked every time we had an amazing time together-awesome date, long weekend, vacation... it happened within an hour or two of when we parted... .

Mine usually freaked the day before a visit or planned awesome time together.

This happened to us at times too. I would say he would bail about 70% of the time that we had plans... . and if we DID the plans... he would bail 90% of the time (or begin the distancing) within the day after the date was over.

[mitchell16]

Mine pretty much freaked/panicked every time we had an amazing time together-awesome date, long weekend, vacation... it happened within an hour or two of when we parted... . I am thinking its a combination of fear of intimacy/engulfment and abandonment all mixed together

Sounds just like mine. Every vaction. Never before but most of the time on the drive back home or sometimes during it. But mostley it was right after. Another time would be when we started making plans to get married. When was talking about she was excited this last time even bragged to her frinds and co workers. But we started looking at engagament rings and started making the plans. Then it was instant fighting. she would find the smallest little things to make into a huge fight that we needed to break up over. On one argumenty, I calmly asked her how we could resolve the sitition and just forget it, she refused to let it go, offer a solution and stayed mad the whole day and night. Then got drunk start in about something I had did 2 months earlier when we was broken up ( her choosen) and carried it on through the night. And of course the next day I walked because I had enough of the  name callng and raging. So once again it was all my fault becasue I had abandon her again.

[peas]

Another time would be when we started making plans to get married. When was talking about she was excited this last time even bragged to her frinds and co workers. But we started looking at engagament rings and started making the plans. Then it was instant fighting.

Mitchell 16, same here. He is the one who kept saying I was "the one" he was "done looking" and would make comments about being married to me. He bought me a pre-engagement ring, as like a placeholder to demonstrate our bond until he could get an engagement ring. We talked about when we would move in together.

Then that's when the distancing started, the unnecessary fights and eventual breakup that of course he thought was me leaving him when he was the one cut me off.

[mitchell16]

3 of our major breaks up was right after her saying she wanted us to get married and we started looking at engagement rings. I could just about right in a calender in advance that with 2 or 3 weeks of the conversation and going an dlooking at engagement ring she would mastermind a fight. BUt by then she already had my number. She would start off with an argument, if that didnt work she would escualate with name calling or insults about how I didnt do something right and if that didnt work she just keep pushing until I couldnt or wouldnt stand for it. I would leave go back to my own house and the of course I broke up with her or abandoned her, or she would say we should be togtehr becuase we cant get along. 3 or 4 week breaks up, phone calls from her, me ignpore them, then I would cave and here we go again. I stopped mention getting married because I knew it was never going to happen. But was funny was once I stopped mentioning it she would start bring it up more. I would take the bait, we woudl start making plans and here it would happen again. She was brillant I give her that one. It was like she would only mention getting married as gauge to see if I was still emotionally in the relationship but once I acted serious about it, push/pull would start again.

[sadinnc98]

Mine pretty much freaked/panicked every time we had an amazing time together-awesome date, long weekend, vacation... it happened within an hour or two of when we parted... . I am thinking its a combination of fear of intimacy/engulfment and abandonment all mixed together

Sounds just like mine. Every vaction. Never before but most of the time on the drive back home or sometimes during it. But mostley it was right after. Another time would be when we started making plans to get married. When was talking about she was excited this last time even bragged to her frinds and co workers. But we started looking at engagament rings and started making the plans. Then it was instant fighting. she would find the smallest little things to make into a huge fight that we needed to break up over. On one argumenty, I calmly asked her how we could resolve the sitition and just forget it, she refused to let it go, offer a solution and stayed mad the whole day and night. Then got drunk start in about something I had did 2 months earlier when we was broken up ( her choosen) and carried it on through the night. And of course the next day I walked because I had enough of the  name callng and raging. So once again it was all my fault becasue I had abandon her again.

We also had engagement/wedding triggers... . interestingly they were all initiated by him.

We first got engaged and I know it was impulsive. He flew me on an out of town trip and we picked out a ring and he bought it. He was going to give it to me months later but went ahead and bought it since it was our first big trip together. Well we go back to the hotel and he gives it to me... I knew right then he was being very impulsive and I was excited but very nervous... as I very well should be. We don't get  back for a week before I get the "I am having bad thoughts" text... then he ignores me for 5 days, then breaks the engagement via text message and texts me to meet him in an hour at the drugstore to give the ring back. March 1, 2013... . worst day of my life thus far. He was like a stone cold killer showing no emotion whereas I was crying and destroyed... .   This honestly is what led me to read about BPD, and this event, combined with many other things in the r/s and I realized then just exactly what I was dealing with.

Second time, this was 3 mos later, he spends a whole evening asking me to pick out rings that he was emailing to me... . "Choose the ones you like and rank them"... . so I did. Three days later he picks a huge fight and dumps me... .

Third time was 2 weeks ago. He says he wants to marry me, move in, have a baby, etc... . I no sooner leave after the weekend together when he goes cold/distant... . a week later he dumps me via message on FB and now here I sit... broken again...

All of this and 27 other recycles... . craziness... .

mitchell: I never looked at it as this talk was a gauge to see if I was still invested... makes sense to me. I knew he would never go through with it. In fact he told me the only way he would is if I "snuck up on him"... called him when he was in a good mood and asked to go to the courthouse and get married... so that the didn't have to worry about the anticipation of it... . great huh? The other thing he wanted to do is get me pregnant so then he would be "forced to step up and his fears wouldn't get in the way"

[Mutt]

I'm 100% convinced my uBPDw left due to fear of abandonment. She threatened me on so many occasisons that she was going to divorce me. It wasn't until I had told her I was going to divorce her that she starting detaching and planning to leave with my replacement ready before she left. I was so frustrated with all of the rages and I had said divorce as a tactic to try to get her to realize, there's a huge problem, fix it! My bad. I didn't know she was BPD until after she left. It was that incident that was the catalyst for her breaking up with me.

[peas]

Wow sadinnc98, it's spooky how close our ex's are in behavior.

Mine was married before and it was a shotgun wedding. He got his gf pregnant back in the day and felt a lot of pressure to marry her (they lost the baby, marriage fell apart soon after). He said his marriage, which was an elopement with an unplanned pregnancy, was one of the most stressful times of his life. They were divorced within two years. He was real freaked out about repeating that with me.   

Having said that, early in the r/s with me he would tell me if I got knocked up, it would be okay. I think he really did want me to get pregnant. One time I even blurted out: We should just elope and get it over with. And he actually stopped and got a look on his face like it was a good idea. But then he would vacillate between that and wanting to take things slow with me because he didn't want to repeat the experience he had with his wife. Seriously, one month it was: Let's get married, I want to be with you forever, have my baby... . To the next month: Let's take things slow, let's give it a year before we talk about next steps.

I let him set the pace the whole time. However he wanted to go about building a future -- slow, fast -- I was on board

In the early days when we were all hot and heavy, it was him laying it on thick about being with me, him saying I'm the best thing to happen to him, that he doesn't want to lose me.

Seven months later and after about four recycles, it was more drinking, less sex, no interest in my family, friends or work, F-you, mind your own business, leave if you don't like it, I have a lot of women who want me, I'm sick of your drama.

[sadinnc98]

Peas: My ex seemed hell bent on getting me pregnant. During sex he would tell me he hoped I was getting pregnant, tell me he fantasized about me carrying his child because then I would be "his"... . it was almost kinda creepy. One day during sex he kept saying "You are mine,  you are mine, you are mine"... over and over... He would keep track of my cycles even and tell me when he thought we should be doing it... but he still dumped me the whole time over and over... soo messed up... .

[mitchell16]

sadinnc98. wow that scary about getting pregnant. I always felt like my used marraige as a guage. some of our first break ups she would say that it was becasue i was pressuring her to gte married. Which wasnt true, I would talk about it and she would too but as future plans nothing immediate. But as soon as we got back togther she would mention a place we could go on a honeymoon or start talking about places to get married at. I would get excited becasue i thought finally we were on the same page. BUt what I relized was as soon as she heard me get excited or start talkng about it. She would never mention it again or as it started getting close to doing it she would start a fight, break up would happen and  the game began all over.

The last time we got back togther she started with the marring thing, told everyone we was going to do it including her family. And even asked me one day if we could just run off and go do it that day. which I told her no, I wanted our wedding to be special and she agreed and never brought it up. BUt about a month before the break up, we was looking at wedding rings. and we agreed that we should start saving money to pay for wedding, enegagement ring and honeymoon. we had agreed after our last vaction that we wouldnt take anymore until we got money saved for our plans. about 3 days before the break up she popped up at the last minute wanting us to take a trip. Trip would have cost us about $800.00 not going to break the bank but still. we had just taken a vaction 3 weeks earlier. I reminded her of our plans not to spend money to save up for our wedding and honeymoon. She agreed but with in 3 days she picked a fight, I left and she broke up with me. the fight was ridculous, didnt make sense at all. So i think she relized that I was taking the wedding serious and she had to push away again or it made her mad becasue I didnt give into her she wanted to go another trip and I stood my ground and I didnt let her bully me into doing something that didnt make finacial sense.

[j4c]

I agree that its fear of engulfment & intimacy as well as abandonment that causes them to leave us so abruptly.

There are quite a few comments about pwBPD calling everything off when they're due to be married, which brings me to my ex as she is due to be wed this October in Vegas apparently. Having already dumped the father of her first child 3 weeks before what would've been their big day, I'm fully expecting her to do the same this time too! And although they've only been together 8 months, they've been engaged for at least 5 of those so she's had plenty of time for her fears to build within.

I honestly think she's done a pretty good job of convincing her friends that she's been a victim of circumstance & bad luck throughout her life, but if she were to ditch yet another guy just weeks before the wedding I think people might start to realise where the REAL problem lies.     

[Scout99]

Peas: My ex seemed hell bent on getting me pregnant. During sex he would tell me he hoped I was getting pregnant, tell me he fantasized about me carrying his child because then I would be "his"... . it was almost kinda creepy. One day during sex he kept saying "You are mine,  you are mine, you are mine"... over and over... He would keep track of my cycles even and tell me when he thought we should be doing it... but he still dumped me the whole time over and over... soo messed up... .

As much as we all look for signs confirming our partners borderline behavior, I think it is important to understand that not everything is necessarily a borderline trait... . This example here is actually a very common as well as primal fantasy among men, impregnating the woman and sort of sealing the deal of the two of them... . Making her his... . carrying his offspring.

In some ways it is the male equivalent to women's fantasies of the knight in shining armor on the white horse that whisks us off into the sunset and then "we lived happily ever after in his castle"... . That too is a primary gender based fantasy... .

However if the relationship is not of a sound mind to begin with, having a man say to you, that now you are his, can sound creepy... . Yet to another woman and under the right circumstances it would be enticing to hear that you evoke the primal raw expressions in your man... . it is all relative... . And it is personal.

On the opposite I think we can find plenty of men finding the female happily ever after fantasies rather creepy too, if the relationship is not sound to begin with... . If the relationship is sound the man in love will find his woman's fantasies about the happily ever after cute and trusting... . (Making him want to make her his... .  )

IMO this is not a borderline trait. However the sexual act is often, (not always, there are exceptions), very important to the borderline since they live pretty much solely by their feelings... . And in the act of intercourse is sometimes the only situation in which they truly can feel just one emotion, love and get some quiet to all the rest of the chaos and turmoil that goes on in their mind and their feelings... . Sex is soothing to a borderline, and the only true intimacy many of them are capable of... . It is the only times I believe they can forget the fear of being abandoned... . However once the act is over the fears return, usually with a vengeance... .

Whenever my ex bf and I had had a great time in bed, he would often get a headache or wake up in the middle of the night all sweaty in anxiety. And the more intimate our sexual encounters were, the more anxiety he experienced afterwards... . Sad really... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[Blaise]

My dBPDexgf realized that I was not happy about our r/s and probably felt that I was about to end it. Fear of abandonment. So she set me an ultimatum, asking me to commit more to the r/s or she would leave (I was not yet divorced from my wife). I said I am not ready to commit more -- i.e. to divorce my wife -- and she left, rightly so. A few months later, I told her that I was ready to commit more and would divorce my wife. I expected that she would be happy as this is what she had been asking for for a long time. She responded: "Am I supposed to be happy?". Fear of intimacy/engulfment.

[Scout99]

My dBPDexgf realized that I was not happy about our r/s and probably felt that I was about to end it. Fear of abandonment. So she set me an ultimatum, asking me to commit more to the r/s or she would leave (I was not yet divorced from my wife). I said I am not ready to commit more -- i.e. to divorce my wife -- and she left, rightly so. A few months later, I told her that I was ready to commit more and would divorce my wife. I expected that she would be happy as this is what she had been asking for for a long time. She responded: "Am I supposed to be happy?". Fear of intimacy/engulfment.

And also fear of abandonment since in her mind you have already showed her that you are capable of abandoning her by not divorcing your wife in the first place... . Disordered thinking, not logical and not realistic but typical borderline fear of abandonment... .

IMO the fear of abandonment together with the belief "I am not lovable or worthy of someones unconditional love" are the keys to all the other fears. (engulfment, intimacy, getting bored, loosing passion and so on). They all come from the fear of abandonment, that in turn stems from the self belief of not being loved... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[Blaise]

I totally agree with Scout99. It probably comes from a real abandonnment in childhood. I understand that for children, the only explanation when a caretaker leaves is that they are not lovable. I think that me not divorcing showed her ... . that she was not loveable. I kept telling her that this had nothing to do with her and it was my own issues, to no avail.

[Scout99]

I totally agree with Scout99. It probably comes from a real abandonnment in childhood. I understand that for children, the only explanation when a caretaker leaves is that they are not lovable. I think that me not divorcing showed her ... . that she was not loveable. I kept telling her that this had nothing to do with her and it was my own issues, to no avail.

The important thing tough to understand as a NON is that they will always find some thing in our behaviors or acts that resonates to them as a capability to abandon them. There is really nothing we can say or do to prevent that from happening! No matter how hard we try.

Even in relationships that for some reason lasts through time, the fear will still be present to some degree. And it will then play out in acts of rage, infidelity or continuous attempts to break up the relationship.

The only way out of that is if the borderline by themselves come to the conclusion that they need help and find motivation in themselves and a strong willingness to submit to long term treatment. And like we see here on the board, some of them do and some don't. I believe to a large extent the ones who do harbor some faith in the possibility for change that too somehow stems from an early stage in their lives... . That there somewhere in all the fear also shines a tiny bit of hope... . Some small embryo of self worth... .

In essence I believe it depends on how deep the childhood wound that caused the disorder is.

Some are more wounded than others. And that too will determine the capability to change and develop a new and more stable sense of self... .

Again, there is nothing we as partners can do or say or act in accordance with that in any way can affect that. It has to be found in them.

There is however also some evidence pointing towards some kind of self healing in the borderline disorder at least in some cases when reaching older ages... . That is an interesting fact but one still unexplained by science... .

Best Wishes

Scout99