BPD and when or if they leave the relationship

[Cipher13]

I remeber reading somthing some time ago when I first learned about BPD that sometimes there is a period of time that BPDers end the realtionship... . I am currious of how true this might be.  I have heard the magic number is around 12 years.  For the life of me I can't remeber where I read this. It could be complete hog wash.  If any one has heard of this or experienced this I'd liek to know if there are warning signs or anything that can be seen as a red flag.

I'm at that threshold and I have noticed a few changes over the last year but I don't know if they are just an evolvment of current situation or what.

[Validation78]

Hi Cipher!

The answer to your question will vary from one relationship to another. There is no predetermined period of time in which BPD relationships end whether by the pwBPD or the partner. In fact, as you know, some of them don't end, as we have some members who choose to stay in their relationships.

What changes are you seeing, and why does it make you think they could be indicative of the relationship ending?

Best Wishes,

Val78

[Cipher13]

What changes are you seeing, and why does it make you think they could be indicative of the relationship ending?

I don't think the changes are specific to leaving. She has often times in an argument stated it was over and she was done... . The changes are she is being a lot more clingy and needy. She will constantly say "I miss you" I'll be in the next room or the same room for that matter. This has been happening alot more the last few months. Any comment less than total 100% complimentary is treated as a "being mean"... This to is way more frequent.  Daily even.  The converstion that she says I need to be more loving is happening near everyday.  Basically nearly everything that used to happen ever 3 to 8 weeks is almost daily or everyother day with more and more becaome a daily fixture.

[Validation78]

Have you tried validating her feelings and gently asking her why she is feeling the way she does?

Often pwBPD have more going on than meets the eye and they just need to know that you understand and are listening to the feelings.

[Surnia]

I'm at that threshold and I have noticed a few changes over the last year but I don't know if they are just an evolvment of current situation or what.

Can you tell a bit more which changes you have noticed?

[Cipher13]

I have tried validation. It jas not been succesfull. She sees it as manipulation.  As far as specifcs of changes I would maybe say they are not so much changes in somethign different so much as they are way more extremely frequent and repdative.   I don't mind being told I was missed but within under a minute several times its getting beuyond what has been the norm. She will ask if i miss her... . I want say I have to be gone to miss you and I haven't left you side.

I guess  am sort of getting off topic.  So I might be looking ito this a littel too hard.  There isn't a range that some leave a realtionship then.  I wonder where I saw that? 

[Surnia]

Okay, I get that validation is not working. This is possible.

Than you have to think about other options.

I don't know which resource you are referring to. I have my doubts about predicting if someone would leave or not.

Given she would leave, how do you feel about this?

[dotSlash]

What changes are you seeing, and why does it make you think they could be indicative of the relationship ending?

I don't think the changes are specific to leaving. She has often times in an argument stated it was over and she was done... . The changes are she is being a lot more clingy and needy. She will constantly say "I miss you" I'll be in the next room or the same room for that matter. This has been happening alot more the last few months. Any comment less than total 100% complimentary is treated as a "being mean"... This to is way more frequent.  Daily even.  The converstion that she says I need to be more loving is happening near everyday.  Basically nearly everything that used to happen ever 3 to 8 weeks is almost daily or everyother day with more and more becaome a daily fixture.

I feel you. When I first started seeing my BPD gf she had related outbursts maybe once a month. Then 4 months in it turned to once a week or two. And now the pattern is she blows up about something, questions or tries to end the relationship, then the next day apologizes and everything is great, but within 24 hours she has blown up again. It is seemingly endless and more frequent with time, at least in my case. It also seems like when she gets into that state, all the previous times she has get pulled out of her memory and she uses those to validate her anger as well, so it's been getting subsequently more aggressive each time. Very exhausting...

[Cipher13]

It also seems like when she gets into that state, all the previous times she has get pulled out of her memory and she uses those to validate her anger as well, so it's been getting subsequently more aggressive each time. Very exhausting...

Thats extremely exhausting. It is almost liek the past is so vivid in her mind she can recall anything and everything that is negative. What i was saying how I was saying it all that kind of stuff... The ask about some other positive memories she doesn't recall them so clearly.  It like when she really gets upset she gets into a different state of mind that she stays trapt into mentally for a period of time.  I usually try to weather out the storm as best I can.  But yes "exhausting" is the word.

I tried to look that up again about a mental timeline in a relationship and could find anything... . I know i saw someplace before I found bpdfamily.  Well thanks for the posts anyway.

dotSlash does she tend to dwell or go back to 1 particulare thing in the past? Like she wont let that truely go?  Thats what I am dealing with so thats why I ask. 

[Scout99]

I know how frustrating it is when we have some kind of feeling at the back of our head that we have read something and then something happens in life that sort of brings back a recollection of what we have read, and then the worry tumbler is all set loose... .

However when it comes to this, even if there would be such an article written it is to use your excellent expression plain hog-wash!

There is no biological clock attached to pw BPD telling them when to do anything... . Instead what would be more true about a pw BPD is that making any relationship last is more uncommon than making one last, generally speaking... .

Instead I would say that if you have made it so far as 12 years, then there is a lot more working for you than against you, since most relationships if you just look at this site doesn't make it past even a few years... .

But if we isolate the cause behind your worry instead of finding the answer in some hog wash article. What you are experiencing and the changes you see in her and the effect it has on you and your relationship are real for you. And it is a good thing that you notice the changes and also good that you choose to bring that up here in your post and express a wish for some reflections and thoughts. It gives you some time to reflect and think instead of jumping to conclusions too fast!  

I agree with Validation78 that trying to ask her about whats on her mind and what she thinks might be the cause for some of the things she might be feeling, will not just validate her in an unprovocative way. It will also showing her you care and are concerned with her.

Maybe she will not be in the mood at the time willing (or able) to disclose her thoughts right away... . But if you give it a bit of time and patience she might open up about it in a more honest way when she can... . when she begins to feel that you do care?

PwBPD often collect all things that has happened to them in their past since it "helps" maintain their dysfunctional negative thought patterns that are engraved in their life rules if you will... . It works as a fuel on the fear of abandonment fire they never let go of... .

It is hard, I think to be a partner in times when that at more normal times slow burning abandonment fire in times of dysregulation begins to flare up... . Since it is really a thin line to walk on between ignoring it and acknowledging it, that at times, even when knowing how to communicate constructively, is truly tricky to navigate... .

I understand that it is exhausting for you, and frustrating as well I presume!

Usually the flames subsides with a bit of time and things go back to your mutual normal. But if not then it can sometimes help to just softly ask and show a bit of understanding, while not at the same time let her run all over you or like force you to do unreasonable things like being in the same room with her at all times... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[Cipher13]

Scout thanks for that. The more I read other posts the more I realize maybe it was just something that mabe happened to that particualr person and I am just remebering it wrong.  It makes sense that it would be hog wash since nearly everyones expereicens however similar at times are very different personaly. 

Instead I would say that if you have made it so far as 12 years, then there is a lot more working for you than against you, since most relationships if you just look at this site doesn't make it past even a few years

I don't know if its anythign other than myself that is working for me. Don't get em wrong there ate plenty of good times.  They are fewer in number these days and feel like more of mini vacations.

It just feels like I could be happier in my life if I could have done somethign sooner or gotten out at the first sign that I ignored... . In 12 years I have never yelled in a way that was threatening. Raised my voice yes and that very very very rairly. I have never called her names or spoke ill of her to her face to or to anyone else in any way.  I do not and have not ever cursed at her. During most episodes I am either quiet and not speaking or using a quite tone and tryin to be as soothign as possible.  I try to remeber to use all the tools I have learned from here.

Were I fail is in conversing with her.  I try to explain my feelings and try to show her I understand hers and acknowledge them. So trying to open up in an honest way is not a strong suit of mine. I have tried at times but end up lost and not even on topic by some point in the conversation.

[SadWifeofBPD]

I've never heard of the magic number 12, but maybe the theory is that at that point, the Non is no longer wanting to be so "parenting" (tired of it), and begins to set boundaries that the BPD doesn't like.

Or, children are now in the family and they're requiring a lot of time and energy... . and the BPD doesn't like the diversion. 

Or, at around that point in time, the BPD now has a fantasy laundry list of "sins" committed by the Non.   I would also suggest that some/most of those perceived "sins" are often just normal responses to ridiculous behavior committed by the BPD! 

Or, after about 12 years, the BPD may be in their mid-to-late 30's (or older) and going thru a midlife crisis?

[Cipher13]

I don't quite remeber it as being exactly 12 years but I thought the reason behind it was that over that amount of time  (10 to 15 years) they realize they can't fix there partner or that they leave before the non decides to leave them... Like i said I can;te remeber where I say this or if I am remebering it all correctly.

I don't want ot make somethign out of nothing. So if Iam wrong about this I can accept it and move on. Just wondered if anypne else hadrun across this.

[Scout99]

Scout thanks for that. The more I read other posts the more I realize maybe it was just something that mabe happened to that particualr person and I am just remebering it wrong.  It makes sense that it would be hog wash since nearly everyones expereicens however similar at times are very different personaly. 

Instead I would say that if you have made it so far as 12 years, then there is a lot more working for you than against you, since most relationships if you just look at this site doesn't make it past even a few years

I don't know if its anythign other than myself that is working for me. Don't get em wrong there ate plenty of good times.  They are fewer in number these days and feel like more of mini vacations.

It just feels like I could be happier in my life if I could have done somethign sooner or gotten out at the first sign that I ignored... . In 12 years I have never yelled in a way that was threatening. Raised my voice yes and that very very very rairly. I have never called her names or spoke ill of her to her face to or to anyone else in any way.  I do not and have not ever cursed at her. During most episodes I am either quiet and not speaking or using a quite tone and tryin to be as soothign as possible.  I try to remeber to use all the tools I have learned from here.

Were I fail is in conversing with her.  I try to explain my feelings and try to show her I understand hers and acknowledge them. So trying to open up in an honest way is not a strong suit of mine. I have tried at times but end up lost and not even on topic by some point in the conversation.

It sounds to me as if your way of being with her and the way you handle her, being able to keep your calm, I would say is the very reason your relationship has been working so well as it has! So you are obviously doing things very well! Most people have a very hard time keeping their cool when the borderline starts to dysregulate and act out. So kudos to you for that!

However it is also very good that you seem to be able to look after you in the relationship and begin to feel when their behavior is becoming a bit too all consuming... . After all, we are not just supposed to "make it" or "handle things" within the realm of the relationship. You are supposed to thrive in it too. And the fact that you nowadays feel more like the good times feel more like little mini-vacations is a bit of a  ... .

When you say you wish you could have done something sooner... . Would you like to elaborate a bit on that? Do you mean work on communication or do you mean leave the relationship? Just so we don't get you wrong... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[Cipher13]

When you say you wish you could have done something sooner... . Would you like to elaborate a bit on that? Do you mean work on communication or do you mean leave the relationship? Just so we don't get you wrong... .

I actually mean alot by that... . I mean communication. I mean leaving. I mean staying assertive and standing up for me when I need to.  If I had known about BPD years ago I think I wouldn't have struggled mentally for so long.  The  were there fromthe start I just din't know what hter were... . when you break up with someone so many times for reasons no greater than you are not mature enough or you voice doesn't have the assertive quallity to it... . a trait she no longer likes might I say... . then you wish you could have done things sooner. So many times when things get bad I look back at all the opportunites I could have had to just accept she broke things off and move on... . Now she says it and I continue the same way... I want it to happen in my head but fight tooth and nail to stay verbally to her face. I just don't know why other than I know I will feel guilt and she will feel alone. The feeling she constantly fears.

[Scout99]

When you say you wish you could have done something sooner... . Would you like to elaborate a bit on that? Do you mean work on communication or do you mean leave the relationship? Just so we don't get you wrong... .

I actually mean alot by that... . I mean communication. I mean leaving. I mean staying assertive and standing up for me when I need to.  If I had known about BPD years ago I think I wouldn't have struggled mentally for so long.  The  were there fromthe start I just din't know what hter were... . when you break up with someone so many times for reasons no greater than you are not mature enough or you voice doesn't have the assertive quallity to it... . a trait she no longer likes might I say... . then you wish you could have done things sooner. So many times when things get bad I look back at all the opportunites I could have had to just accept she broke things off and move on... . Now she says it and I continue the same way... I want it to happen in my head but fight tooth and nail to stay verbally to her face. I just don't know why other than I know I will feel guilt and she will feel alone. The feeling she constantly fears.

Seems to me that you have reached a place where you are questioning the value of the relationship for you. And that is a very sound thought! Remember, there is no right or wrong here... . There is only you and how you feel and what you want out of life and what you want or expect from a relationship. And when in a relationship with someone who is very good at consuming most of our energy with their feelings and their behaviors, then it can be hard at times to even remember what your core values and your wishes and wants even were, to begin with!

Taking some time to ponder over those issues is probably a good place to start... . Once you know the answers to some of those questions it will be easier to assess whether or not you like to continue in the relationship and also assess if some of the things you feel need to change are achievable or not... .

It seems to me that you are still of a very sound mind, and that will be a good "friend" to you in this process... .

Living with a person suffering from a severe mental disorder, that borderline really is, and especially if still undiagnosed and/or untreated is hard! It takes a lot of toll on the non partner so to speak. And at the end of the day you need to feel ok with what you get out of the relationship or it will erode you. The positives somewhat need to add up to the challenges or the hard times. And only you can know, when the balance gets too shifted in the wrong direction... .

We often take on a lot of responsibility for their well being and their fears and adjust accordingly. But that is really not our job to do... . Simply put - we can't make them happy all the time and we can't make them get better in their condition. They are adults and need to own up to that themselves... . That is really the only way they can be helped, since any form of treatment needs their motivation and their willingness to work. And we can't get them to that point no matter what we do... .

But I know too well the sense of guilt that fills us up... .

When you say you need to fight tooth and nail to stay verbally in her face... . Does that mean you feel that it is getting harder for you to keep your calm?

Best Wishes

Scout99

[Cipher13]

When you say you need to fight tooth and nail to stay verbally in her face... . Does that mean you feel that it is getting harder for you to keep your calm?

No not at all. I have rarely ever lost my cool. I stay in check and I constantly remind myself to do so. In fact I don't find it hard to stay that way since I am not a confrontational person anyway. What I mean by that is mentally I fight the eurge and desire to say "I quit, I'm done I can't do this." I fight to stay in the relationship. Maybe fight isn't the correct word. Maybe struggle is better.

[blurry]

I think there are people out there who naturally manage a relationship with a BPD partner naturally without even knowing they're doing it, and neither partner may even know there is BPD involved. Its not out of the question that some people react according to a lot of the lessons here unknowlingly and effortlessly because that's their natural response to the issues at hand, in my opinion anyway. I think its those of us who are co- dependant or alcoholic and have lower levels of patience or whatever, all three in my case, who get caught in these severly toxic relationships. My first thoughts on your post were that id love to have one massive blowout per 12 years, but mines more like 12 massive blowouts per year, never leaving me with enough time to even correct my initial response to her dysregulation.

[Cipher13]

My first thoughts on your post were that id love to have one massive blowout per 12 years, but mines more like 12 massive blowouts per year, never leaving me with enough time to even correct my initial response to her dysregulation.

Ha that would be better. I'd settle even for the 12 massive per year... .

[momtara]

I think I read somewhere that people stay with a BPD partner either 5 years, or 15... . or something like that. 

[Narina]

Yes, I read somewhere too that at some point, when they are done, they take off. I don't recall it giving a specific year. I don't know how valid that is either considering that many so called normal relationships don't even last 12 years, so I wouldn't be so hung up on that. I'd be more concerned about where you are now? Are you happy now?

I also want to mention that BPD's tend to be very sensitive. Even if you think you are on the undecided board in secret, she may pick up on your  feelings. You clearly said she has been asking ,":)o you miss me?" more frequently. I don't think it is a sign she will take off, but rather a sign that she fears you will. I am not BPD, but my husband is (and no, I didn't know the signs either before I got married). I can tell you as a Non, I have asked my husband, ":)o you miss me", even when we are in the same room. I don't think this question is a BPD issue. Of course, I can't tell you what your girlfriend thinks, but I can tell you why I ask this and maybe it will open your eyes to your own situation. I ask, because I feel him more distant lately and I miss how close we were. I miss how I felt he loved me even before he said it. I miss that desire and intimacy. If you are undecided, you might not be putting in the same level of desire towards her that you used to and she feels it. Therefore, do you miss me, doesn't refer to a physcal presence in the room, but an emotional presence.

[toomanytears]

I've never heard of the magic number 12, but maybe the theory is that at that point, the Non is no longer wanting to be so "parenting" (tired of it), and begins to set boundaries that the BPD doesn't like.

Or, children are now in the family and they're requiring a lot of time and energy... . and the BPD doesn't like the diversion. 

Or, at around that point in time, the BPD now has a fantasy laundry list of "sins" committed by the Non.   I would also suggest that some/most of those perceived "sins" are often just normal responses to ridiculous behavior committed by the BPD! 

Or, after about 12 years, the BPD may be in their mid-to-late 30's (or older) and going thru a midlife crisis?

So true.

My laundry list  of 'sins' is not 12 years long but 30 years long after our 30 year marriage. Beware, the list just gets longer and longer and there is nothing you can do about it.

[Cipher13]

Do you miss me", even when we are in the same room. I don't think this question is a BPD issue.

Normally I do not flat out reject a persons coments without taking them to heart. So I will think about this also. There may be some point to what you said. Now I must put it into context. It's all the time. Even after spending alot of good fun quallity meaningful time together. Almost like she feels that now that that time is over I will leave.  Its not always easy to do but I try to put myslef in her position and how it must feel. I don't want to just cast judgement knowing that BPD is affecting things in away even she doen't want.  I have been better at this lately but by no means is it fun as it can be draining work.

If she knew how much I actually am putting into this she it woudl surprise her but having BPD i don't think she sees all of the effort all the time.

[popeye6031]

Yes, the regular emotional talks of "do you miss me" or "do you love me" are a very draining.  And it is perfectly normal, as Narina says, for someone to say "do you miss me", but it is not perfectly normal when this occurs every couple of days and happens when you have had a great day or days together and suddenly comes out of nowhere.  That is the difference between when a non says it and someone possibly sufferenig from BPD.  The non might say it once a month when they feel down or things have been strained in the relationship (i.e. there is a logical reason for asking it).  Logic is certainly not something I have expereinced with my fiance.

[Cipher13]

If it were every couple of days it would be more rare than every few hours. It can go a coupe days in between sometimes but on the days it happens its every time I leave the room or even get up to move even if I don't leave the room.

[popeye6031]

So, sounds like it just gets worse as time goes by.  I am only 2 years into my relationship.

[Cipher13]

It does get worse as time goes by if nothing is done about it for years. I may bq 12 years into the releationship but I'm barely 1 year into trying to get myself better in the snese that I can have a voice and an opinion again.  I  spent almost 12 years unknowinlgly eroding that part of  my life.