'Stealing the joy' qu about not being influenced by others emotions

[PeppermintTea]

Hi All,

I've been posting recently on the 'undecided' board but I think I'm more inclined to try to make things work... . I wondered if I could ask advice from those of you who are committed to staying?

My H is dBPD and has recently started therapy. He says he is 'committed to change' but I am unsure because when I have asked him about this his answers are ambivalent at best.

I would like to hear that he feels strongly about being able to live with me and our children and to build a life together that's as happy and content as possible. What I actually hear is 'this therapy is a last resort I can't live another 40 years like the last 40'.

Maybe I'm being unfair but I can't see any particular change going on in his thought process or behaviour and I am worried that the above statement isn't a very strong motivator... . it doesn't sound to me as though the discomfort of the previous 40 years is worse than the discomfort of change... .

In your experience how have you known when your BPD loved one is truely motivated and ready to work in therapy rather than just go thruogh the motions?

Secondly I am working really hard not to let my H 'steal the joy' from my life and our daughters lives. However this is hard. I know that I don't need to be influenced by his emotions but man I am tired of the constant negativity.

I aksed yesterday 'would you like to come shopping with me and the girls?' I got 'suppose so' . I then said 'no really if you would like to come please do but if you dont' want to then don't we don't mind either way' (as if he's in a bad mood / doesn't really want to do something we all suffer with his snappy attitude and miserable face). He came but was miserable.

This is his constant setting - miserable / irritable. He is miserable if we do stuff without him but miserable if he joins in. I try to explore with him if there is something underlying this but he just cuts me off. If I just do things that the girls and I like to do and don't even mention it to him he says I'm excluding him but when I invite him he clearly doesn't want to be around. And he never arranges anything at all himself. 

So people who are committed to staying how do you manage not to be affected by your BPD persons emotions? I have had 3 years of almost constant miserable face, snapping, apathy and anger... . I don't want to be influced by this but it's hard when it's in my face all the time and I feel I can't get away other than when I'm at work. When I take time away by going to friends etc he says I'm excluding him.

Is it possibe to set a boundary around this? I want to say that I understand he feels miserable and that he feels everything in life is negative however this is not my reality nor is it our childrens realities. I would like to say that we welcome him joining us in activites and around the house when he does so with genuine desire to be with us and/or genuine affection. I hate it when he comes along but just drags behind us with a face that looks as though he'd rather be anywhere else on the planet. I want to scream at him 'you chose to be here, get involved or leave but stop dragging us all down'!

What is detaching with love. Whenever I try to step back he says I've excluded him or abandoned him. How do I do this 'with love' ?

Sorry this is so long. I really would value ideas .

PT x

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[MaybeSo]

Therapy has a better chance if the person is invested for their own reasons, including their own pain. There are no guarantees, though, either way. But if he were saying he is going for you and the kids, I'd think his commitment it less his and more about avoiding abandonment for a short time, or placating someone else. If he says he is going because he has been in too much pain and can't stand it anymore, good. That's a good sign.

I don't have much time, others will no doubt jump in here.

But you may want to read up on boundaries, and do some reading on codependence.

He sounds very depressed.

[Cloudy Days]

From my experience my husband sort of started going for me, so he wouldn't loose me. He had a really bad episode and I finally said enough is enough, your getting treatment or I'm done. I even had to go to the first few appointments with him until he would go by himself. With that said, once he started going to therapy he started to understand things a little better and he actually started doing the work. He comes home some days all amped up wanting to tell me what he learned. He tells me some pretty wacky stories from his group sessions too. I think going to group makes him feel less crazy... . . So it started out with him going to make me happy but he's actually accepted that he may have to go to therapy for the rest of his life. He's been going for a year and he's not 100% better by any means but things are better than they were a year ago by far!

[PeppermintTea]

Thanks Maybeso and Cloudydays.

My H is very depressed. He has been through may diagnoses before they settled on BPD. First it was depression, then anxiety, then bipolar disorder, then eventually BPD (which they settled on about a year ago).

I have done quite a bit of reading about boundaries but I'm struggling to implement one around this issue.

When we do things together his low mood brings me down. When I do things just me and the kids he says I have  excluded him.

EG this weekend we're invited to stay at a friends house. I really really want to go just me and the kids but H wants to come too and will be upset if I said I wanted to go without him. However, the reason I want to go without him is that for the last 6 weeks he has been so miserable that I feel close to depression myself. I want a break to just be happy and carefree having some fun.

Anytime I say I will go somewhere or do something he wants to come too and yet when he is there he is miserable and doesn't engage.

He says I don't spend as much time with him anymore but this is a direct result of his negative attitude and emotions. I find it too stressful to be around him too much. I genuinely feel that if I spend anymore time with him I am in danger of becoming depressed myself.

I took him out to dinner just the two of us the other week thinking we could spend quality time together. He was really quiet and withdrawn even though he had said he wanted to go.

I ask him what he would like to do together that  he would enjoy. He says he doesn't know or that we wouldn't have time anyway (time is difficult with 2 kids but I could make time and he knows it).

How do I go about setting a boundary around this without invalidating his emotions? I understand he is entitled to feel how he feels  and I don't have to feel the same way but his miserableness affects the whole atmosphere.

Any thoughts?

[briefcase]

There really isn't a boundary that will make him a happier person.  Your boundaries around this issue are about protecting you and taking care of your needs.  If you need a day off from him, you take that time, being loving and respectful to him while doing it.  "I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and down right now and really just need to go out shopping today to clear my own head.  I'll see you at dinner." Or something along those lines. 

[MaybeSo]

You will need to strengthen your own boundaries.

Therapists sit with morose, depressed people all day. They have good boundary bubbles... . the depression belongs to the other person. It's not yours to merge with or to own.

And you take the breaks you need. Yes he may be upset. That's his emotion, too. Let him handle his stuff, you handle your stuff. That's what a boundary is; it is a separation between two distinct entities, not a merger. If you merge with his depression, of course you will feel depressed.

[lostandunsure]

One thing I'm learning, and I'm very new to learning about BPD, we've only just started researching it a couple of weeks ago, is that I have to protect myself and my emotions. No one else will. I have to be responsible for my own emotions. No one else can be. This doesn't mean my wife doesn't love me or doesn't care about my emotions, but they aren't hers.

My wife isn't diagnosed at this point, we're seeing a new psychiatrist on Monday and I have hopes that we can get a proper diagnosis then. (I keep telling myself that I'm not a doctor, but every last symptom fits and I understand how my wife thinks and processes emotion better now than I have for the last 17 years of our marriage)... .

Anyway... . I have run into the same problem from time to time. Either I'll want to do something and she won't, but comes anyway, or she wants to do something that I don't, but if I don't go, then that causes a problem. I think it's part of the deep seated abandonment component of BPD, that every chance we have to be together, we MUST be together.

So, I try to remind myself that I am responsible for my own emotions. And, what's more, is that I am not responsible for hers. If I need a break because her emotions are becoming overwhelming, then I take a break. I have to. If I don't, I won't be able to be the support that she needs when she needs it most. Sometimes, it's going shopping, just to get out of the house. Sometimes it's enjoying a book whenever she's sleeping in late or taking a nap.

I used to feel guilty for doing this, it sounds silly, I know, why should I feel guilty for taking an hour or two here and there all for myself? I think because I've been trained over several years of marriage that I should put myself second that "WE" should come first, and really that means that my wife would come first. I've learned that's wrong. I don't feel guilty anymore.

He may be upset, or not understand why you want to do something without him. You may have been "trained" to ask if he would like to go along. The reality is that he doesn't need to be with you constantly. You and quite honestly, he deserves some time individually to recharge and clear your heads. If you don't want him along, you don't have to ask. If he asks about it, you have a myriad of answers that you can give. "I don't think you'd be interested." "Oh, I'm just taking time to myself, why don't you take that time to do {insert thing he likes to do that you don't here} while I'm out".

Having free individual time can actually help your relationship as it gives you time to remember who you are and not be constantly overwhelmed with the other person. It is far too easy to burn out when you are overwhelmed with trying to control your own emotions and trying to deal with someone elses.