Reconciling the fragmented/split personas in your mind

[Ironmanrises]

This has been one of the hardest things for me to come to grips with. The 2 different personas exhibited by my exUBPDgf. The "nice" side. And that other side. Polar opposites. 1 person. And that happens to be the person that you end up letting inside your sacred walls. The nice side gains entrance. As soon as entrance is given... . the inevitable occurs. The other side appears. And now that side is within your sacred walls. My mind cannot link the 2. You search for that nice side. But all that you see is the other. Where did that nice side go? Sometimes it feels like my mind splits trying to understand this. Not even my Ironman suit was able to protect me from the inevitable outcome... . Idealize. devalue. Discard. Round and round. Like a circle. Two personas. Running rings around me.

I tumble still.

[Ittookthislong]

i literally had the same. exact. thought. earlier today.

its so wierd, it feels like a con they pull. get you to open up the gates to your heart while they appear to do the same, then they project or dump all their bad stuff into yours and shut themselves off so nothing you say hurts them.

its frustrating.

its like the emotional/psychological equivalent of leaving a flaming bag of dog poop on your front door step for you to put out.

i get the two people thing in theory. i understand the idea now, but i know what you mean. i understand that their personality is just built that way, for protection. its hardwired. what i dont understand is how much they do or dont enjoy the torture they inflict.


i also am curious, if they are so acustom to shut off, run, split people black before someone can hurt them, what the heck are they scared of. if theyve numbed themselves to the pain, how is it even considerred pain? I know I never could really really really love until i felt heartbreak because it was the appreciation of the act of being with someone and not ever wanting them to feel that heartbreak that made me realize that was love, and the appreciation that another protects me from heartbreak in every moment. but if you never let people break you- then what are you scared of?

not sure im making sense, maybe because it just doesnt make sense to me.

good post though. take care

[snappafcw]

This is a great thread. The post of mine above this is very similar. I would also love some insight on this matter

[Ironmanrises]

Ittookthislong,

I think they seem to enjoy the pain they lash out onto us when they are in the devalue phase. On the very day 43 days ago, that my exUBPDgf left me for the 2nd time, i had told her multiple times(she had been giving me silent treatment for 1 plus month, reduced our contact to just texting)... . "You are hurting me. You are hurting me the same way you did the first time you left me."... . Her reaction was literally... . Silence. No empathy. None. The shockwaves of her silence destroyed the remnants of what little confidence and self esteem i had left at that point. The only "apology" i got was on the day she she re-engaged me when she was begging andcryingfor me totake her back. She had apologized profusely for her rotten treatment of me from before. So much for all of that. That might has well been a completely different person who apologized and wanted "her man back." Those words echo in my mind.    :'(

Snappafew,

Thanks. I will look into your thread. I had to power down my Ironman suit. All of this has exhausted me.

[babyducks]

I think they seem to enjoy the pain they lash out onto us when they are in the devalue phase.

Ironman,

I can definitely see your point here.  Sometimes it does appear that to us that they lash out deliberately and on purpose.

I would suggest that when they project onto us, what they feel is relief.   The pain and anger boiling inside them is so intense, that when they release the pressure by dumping it on us, they do feel better.

It appears to be one of the inappropriate coping mechanism of the illness.   

babyducks

[Ironmanrises]

Baby ducks,

I can understand that. It hurts nonetheless. I consider myself a very empathetic person, so I literally felt her pain... . It is what she left me with on my lap both times she left me. Almost like, here, you deal with it. It leaves you feeling completely corrupted and tainted. I tried so hard to show her what she was doing to me. The easiest thing for her to do was to abandon me. She already successfully re-engaged me once. It is only a matter of time before she tries again. I can no longer allow her to further destroy me. So I remain in complete radio silence. No Facebook. No Instagram. I cannot swallow anymore of her pain. It would only kill me in the end.

[babyducks]

so I literally felt her pain... . It is what she left me with on my lap both times she left me. Almost like, here, you deal with it. It leaves you feeling completely corrupted and tainted. ... . I cannot swallow anymore of her pain. It would only kill me in the end.

You are exactly right.  I really like the phrase 'it leaves you feeling completely corrupted and tainted'.  Exactly so.  You nailed it for me.   Thanks.

It does create pain for me,  in us, I guess.   

I suspect the next question is how do we deal with the pain we are left with?   

babyducks

[Ironmanrises]

Baby ducks,

Welcome. How do we deal with the pain? For me, I have basically closed myself off to most of the outside world with the exception of this forum because I no longer have the energy to deal with anything else until I somehow come to terms with this. My profession is selling watches for a living, and as a result of all of this, I can no longer even look people in the eye. I no longer like what I see around me. I feel hyper vigilant. Exposed. I draw people's faces as a hobby, since the devaluation phase started with the eventual discard... . I no longer draw. No energy to do so. Sad, I know. But that is how I feel. Whether or not my exUBPDgf left me for someone else, I do not know... . but I feel betrayed nonetheless. A feeling that ripples all around. Abandoned. Again. I know she is sick. My compassion for her had no effect. She left regardless. Far too many things one has to deal with.

[willtimeheal]

Ironman

My ex BPD would take all her frustration out on me. I think she felt safe with me. So when she got angry or upset with her family she would take all that anger out on me. Her father was abusive and an alcoholic but she was terrified of speaking her mind to him. So she would vent and abuse me instead of him. That is how she coped. She just figured I would always be there and that I loved her and if she told me she loved me I would just put up with it. Even when I would tell her that what she was doing was  hurtful and I didn't deserve the treatment. Finally I had enough and entered therapy. I started to get stronger and realize that no matter how much someone claims to love you those are just words... . their actions also speak volumes.

[Emelie Emelie]

I was just talking to my T about this last week.  There are two of him.  One is the best guy I've ever met.  We all know who the other one is.  He said you have to bring them together in your mind.  Realize they are the same person.  You don't get one without the other.  That's really, really hard for some reason.

And yes.  He took all of his anger and frustration out on me too.  I was the one he was closest to. 

[talithacumi]

Two words, my friend: radical acceptance.

There are not two sides. There is no Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. They are not two completely different people.

This is IS who they REALLY are. This is how they REALLY experience/perceive the things that happen around and to them. This is what they REALLY think/feel. ALL of it just as real and intense as everything that both came before, and will come after. NOTHING for them EVER remains the same. NOTHING. EVER.

And you think it's confusing/scary to look at? Imagine living that way. Imagine getting exactly the reaction YOU have to seeing it from EVERYONE they've ever known/met EVERY TIME they've gotten overwhelmed, lost control, and NOT been able to PRETEND to be just like everyone else so people will understand, empathize, like, love, and accept them.

It's a disorder. They have absolutely no control over the way they experience, perceive, understand, react to, or act upon ANYTHING. They need/want most what EVERYONE needs/wants most - to feel noticed, important, liked, and loved simply for being who they are. What they UNDERSTAND is that they cannot get ANY of those things BEING who/what they REALLY are. What they've LEARNED is that the very best, if not ONLY way to actually get what they need/want most - even for just a little while - is to consciously/intentionally PRETEND to be more emotionally consistent than they actually are - to lie about, deny, gaslight, JADE, distract/deflect, and blame others when they're caught acting on feelings/thoughts they're not SUPPOSED to have - and, when they're finally no longer able to do even that, to reject/abandon before BEING rejected/abandoned themselves.

If you're anything like me, you saw signs that there was more going on with your ex as far as what they really felt/thought LONG before your relationship came to whatever sudden, blistering end it did - and I'm betting you, like me, probably made dang sure, EVERY time that happened, that they KNEW you didn't like it very much at all - thus inadvertently reinforcing their belief that they dang sure had to hide those feelings/thoughts from you at all costs.

You may not have been aware that you were an active participant in this little dance of disorder, but the fact is, you DID play your part.

It's a disorder. It doesn't operate/work in a vacuum. You acted, and were acted upon by it JUST as much as your ex was/still is.

Mine did a really good job of pretending to be someone I could actually love for over 12 years. I genuinely BELIEVED that love was completely unconditional. What I've realized is that my ex was PERFECTLY aware the entire time that it WASN'T unconditional in his case AT ALL. That I not only WOULDN'T, but, as I've since discovered, actually COULDN'T love the person he REALLY was very much AT ALL, let alone as UNCONDITIONALLY as I would ever so much STILL like to at least claim I did/do.

It sounds to me like you still want to be able to love your ex the way you once did/always have by characterizing the thoughts/feelings they've expressed since everything fell apart between the two of you as belonging to a different person or persona altogether. Still want to believe that what you offered was the best and most enduring of all unconditional kinds of love. Still want to believe that's what kind of person you were/are.

I ask you to do better than that. To look at all the things you said/did that made it clear that this was not actually what you felt or were capable of feeling. To admit that your ex knew this, and responded to it in a way that may have been dishonest but was certainly not unappropriate or inexplicable under the circumstances. To reconcile yourself to how YOU really feel about the kind of person your ex REALLY is/has ALWAYS been. To accept that this disorder doesn't make it POSSIBLE for you to love/trust them the way you needed/wanted/believed/felt/thought/said you did all this time. To try NOW to do ACTUALLY do that - accept/love them as much/best as you CAN given the fact THAT they're disordered.

They are what they are, ironmanfalls, and - as confusing, frustrating, unstable, untrustworthy, and frightening as they may be - as resolutely doomed by their disorder to continue being disordered as they so unmistakeably seem to be - you cannot change them. You can only change yourself. And you cannot do that unless you're willing to see the ways in which this experience may have shown you where you might need/want to change in the first place.

Don't mean to sound harsh about it, but framing your perception of your ex this way is doing no one any good. Just keeps you stuck in the same old mindset that led to your relationship with her being what it was, and ending as abruptly/badly as it did for both of you.

My thoughts today for whatever they're worth anyway.

TC

[Ironmanrises]

Emelie,

I can totally relate to you. I know how hurtful that must have been for you. She took her frustration out on me too.


Willtimeheal,

My exUBPDgf mother was same way with her. Instead of defending herself against her mother, she would take that out on me... . she once told she feared her mother would "totally cut her out of her life and abandon her"... . I shuddered when she told me that. I am sure this is how her mother has always treated her leading to all of this at present day. Of course, I paid the price for that. So damaging.

Talithacumi,

Powerful words. You were not harsh at all. I have read a lot about radical acceptance on my many months of lurking on here. The first go around in the relationship, I was only aware towards the very end that something was really wrong with her behavior towards me. I only linked BPD after she left me first time when I found this board. When she successfully re-engaged me and I caved and let her back in(first confirmation of the very real fact that she has BPD)... . I closely watched as the relationship progressed and clearly saw each phase of the spiral upward and then downward. I was present in her house the very day she was triggered and the devaluation started. I know I played my part knowingly by staying, my feelings for her by that point were really deep, I couldn't walk away. I literally saw and watched her regression into that other side of her(further confirming her illness). It was horrifying and sad. I knew I couldn't stop any of it. I knew what the outcome was going to be. I knew I was only compromising myself by staying. What does that say about me? Codependent? The answer scares me. Nonetheless, great post talith. I will digest it as much as I can.

I tumble still.

[willtimeheal]

Talithacumi

That was a very powerful post. It really got me thinking and put a lot into perspective.  What you said about being with them now... . That we never could because they are disordered. I thought about this a lot and it is just sitting in my head. It doesn't bother me that they have a disorder I would still love  them. It is the refusal to seek help for themselves. Also the treatment I received from my ex BPD the cheating lying abuse ... . I will never go back to that.  I could never trust her again because of what she did to me not because of the disorder. Even though I know  the disorder I  the underlying factor of why she did what she did. I will never allow anyone to treat me like that again... . BPD or not. I don't know if that makes sense but I was just thinking about it a lot. Great post and great words of advice.

[talithacumi]

Thanks ironman and willtime for reading through that post. Like a lot of the ones I seem to write, it ended up being something I actually needed to really hear as well because I'm not always so good, apparently, at recognizing what I already know and listening to my own advice.

Talk about your self-esteem issues.

Ay yi yi - it just never ends this recovery thing!

LOL .

[Ittookthislong]

Ironman, the apology thing is so frustrating i know. I understand wanting so bad for AT LEAST an apology for him coming in, festerring up the worst emotions, slanderring my character and making me feel too insecure to pick myself up again.

Get this mindbender of an apology for closure:

I asked for an apology and he said in a very annoid tone(almost admitting he knows what he was doing was wrong) I will apolagize... . but i will when IM ready, not when YOU tell me too. so i wait and wait, nothing. a year later im still hurt and wanting some sort of idea what he was thinking so i contact and catch up, basically apolagize for my end and wait for him to. He says and notice how they throw in the "BUTS" rendering there apology basically nonexistent, and the apology is about how he feels anyway) "Im sorry but I was younger and im a different person now. I feel bad for the way I was then, but honestly Im confused about this, that was so long ago I hope you  find peace and realise its not important to think about anymore  so you should stop thinking about me.

So, Ironman, and anyone else who still wants someone to take responsibility... . thats totally reasonable "BUT" , i know, but even when they say sorry and you feel releif finally, its like a timebomb and you realise its not an apology at all. your ex will most likely find an apology that will somehow release her from being as responsible than she really is and make you feel like a loser for wanting it. Notice above how mine was basically saying sorry from a "version" of himself that is no longer the person who did the wrong. he is beyond those things he did, and im still stuck in that version of me that wants closure. ITS INFURIATING. so I promise you, you can look for it, but it will never come, not in any form that is meaningful or that will take away your pain.

The only thing I can say, as that here where people know that pain, and I do, I can honestly say to you , and anyone else in that pain that I am so sorry for what this person has brought into your life, the way that they have brought you into their illusion, and left you seeing things from their distorted view. You are not the person you are left believing you are. Nobody is perfect however nobody deserves what you have been through.

[Ironmanrises]

Talith,

Welcome.

Ittookthislong,

That is so terrible if your ex to try and apologize like that. So distorted. I am sorry that you had to undergo that. The apologies are only to gain entrance back inside your sacred walls. The closure that is presented when they re-engage and if successful is negated because the inevitable will occur. They will leave. Round and round. Like a circle.

[Lady31]

talithacumi - amazingly written.  Thanks for the mind probe.

[goldylamont]

... . I am so sorry for what this person has brought into your life, the way that they have brought you into their illusion, and left you seeing things from their distorted view. You are not the person you are left believing you are. Nobody is perfect however nobody deserves what you have been through.

Ittookthislong, that was a really nice and true thing to say. thank you for that! this actually got me b/c while i do kind of know this just hearing it again felt nice. so thanks 


and, i wish there was a rule book for dealing with leaving an exBPD that just flat out states ":)o NOT ask for any Apologies"! my god, to think how many people want apologies from my ex, it's staggering. she gets off on being cruel and then any form of apology or acknowledgement given to her is just a reason for her to be more snotty and cruel. i somehow managed to stop apologizing for anything she may have perceived me doing until i got at least some compliance from her first, which was rare. and i think this kept me in tact to some degree. i'm so glad i wasn't treating her like i would a decent person; because her intentions were to inflict pain passively so as to be undetected. but i knew, even if i wasn't consciously aware, that she was playing games.

here's the thing--everything they did to you they did it on purpose, because they feel like you deserve to be treated horribly. cheating, lying, manipulating--please this is just a way of life for them. i mean, why would they ever apologize to the person who put them through years of child abuse... . ehr, um, i mean apologize to you?

the growth for me is truly being able to see this big pile of flaming poo on the doorstep and realize it won't smell forever!   after all is said and done, i survived this ordeal and proud of my recovery. it's becoming easier to see the BS for what it was while still maintaining a growing feeling of "who cares? it's ok. isht happens. i want ice cream. ex who?" 

[Ironmanrises]

Goldy,

The apologies are only said in the moment. To regain access within your sacred walls. Intentional or not, it still is a difficult thing for me to come to terms with.

[clairedair]

The apologies are only said in the moment. To regain access within your sacred walls. Intentional or not, it still is a difficult thing for me to come to terms with.

I too struggle with this.  I can't believe that someone who loved me could use what I shared with him to regain my trust and reconcile only to then use what I shared with him to hurt me again.

One of the things I shared with him was that his apologies actually really hurt because they always had a 'but' and the bit after the but brought me down all over again (it was usually a reminder of something I had 'done wrong'.  The worst was the line about always loving me BUT life with me was not fulfilling enough for him - perfect for tapping into my deep fears about 'not being good enough'.  I told him how destroyed I'd been by those words then he repeated them almost verbatim next time he left... . really does a number on your heart, body and soul.

I'm still trying to work out why I would reconcile after that happened the first time let alone several times.  Partly, I needed to keep trying in the hope that he would really accept me and that I would finally feel good enough in his eyes.  I knew, rationally, that I was a good enough human being and that he was insecure but it's amazing the power of our own core wounds!

You are not the person you are left believing you are. Nobody is perfect however nobody deserves what you have been through.

Itookthislong - thanks for this

[Jep]

Talith,

That was amazing!  What you wrote is truly heartfelt. I knew after the first betrayals that things would never be the same between us. I withdrew, and held back affection. I didn't trust, or treat her with the same respect anymore. I couldn't... . It went on like this for years. This gave her the validation, the ammo so to speak, to leave me in a terrible way. After all, who wouldn't?  So simple. I put up with the abuse and dealt with it passively. Perhaps a few lessons in being assertive are in order. Of course I didn't know she was ill at the time.  Just thought she was a decent person who turned into an a hole when she was angry. I now know she couldn't control that, and I will treat her with love, but at arms length. I must because we have a child together, but your post has done wonders to dissipate my anger. It really was 1/2 my own fault. Thank you so much

Jp

[ucmeicu2]

I think they seem to enjoy the pain they lash out onto us when they are in the devalue phase.

unfortunately i think you might be right, ironman.  after we were sufficiently set in the "idealization" phase, my xBPDgf told me she was ashamed of this but that she was addicted to pain/suffering/and sadness.

i need to bone up on my fact checking skills b/c i made the assumption   she was talking about 'within herself'.  but after enormous amounts of pain/suffering/and sadness heaped on to me,     i realize she meant something totally different.   

icu2

[Ironmanrises]

Icu2,

Trying to understand this disorder literally fries my brain.

So chaotic.

Damaging.

Maddening.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Trying to understand this disorder literally fries my brain.

So chaotic.

Damaging.

Maddening.

Ironmanfalls, It will fry your brain if you don't eventually let go because there is no understanding it.  There is no logic to it because it is a disorder.  A lot of the nons I've encountered on here want to dissect and figure it all out.  I don't think there is anything wrong with this... to a point.  I am the same way.  I still find myself trying to make sense of some of it, and I keep hitting a wall, because it does not make sense other than, again, it is disordered thinking and behavior we are trying to make sense of!

It is tragic, and I understand your pain all too well.  I will say that it does ease up after a bit of time, but it takes time.  I am not out of the woods, but the woods are not as thick as they were.  Someone mentioned radical acceptance earlier.  That was a wise comment.  My thoughts and feelings are scrambled at the moment because I recently found out my ex is now married to some guy she dated for 3 months. 

Best to you.

[Ironmanrises]

Phoenix,

There are times when i do accept it.

My pain resurfaces shortly afterwards... .

That is when my mind splits.

I get what you are saying.

Radical acceptance is not easy to fully process.

I am terribly sorry that you had to find out information like that of your ex.

How incredibly hurtful.

My pysche would have gone nuclear at that point.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Thanks for the kind words.  I knew it was only a matter of time.  Take it easy.

[delgato]

my god, to think how many people want apologies from my ex, it's staggering.

I never really thought about that before, but it's most certainly true with mine, as well.

Creepy.