the "all good" child is my dad

[livednlearned]

I just read The Borderline Mother by Christine Lawson and it describes my grandmother. I think my dad was the "all good" child. My brother is BPD, and I married someone who is N/BPD, and see now that I have had r/s with other men who exhibit BPD and narcissistic traits. I'm trying to understand the script.

Where can I learn more about the "all good" child? Did anyone here experience being "all good" growing up with a BPD mother? Or have a sibling who is "all good"? What is it like for you (or for your sibling?)

My grandmother had 3 kids 20 years apart. My dad is the middle child and was raised the golden boy. My aunt was the youngest and had a terrible childhood. She was 8 years younger than my dad, and he went away to college at age 15 (skipped two grades), so she was pretty much on her own after age 7.

When my grandmother died, I was asked to write the obituary, and referred to my grandmother's "lovable eccentricities." My aunt was so upset by that, and said she didn't want that phrase in there, so I took it out. When I asked people in my family about it, people hushed up. I later found out that my aunt confronted my grandmother later in her life, but don't know much about what she said, just that she expressed her rage and hurt toward my grandmother. My aunt said she never wanted kids because my grandmother was such an awful mother.

My dad isn't talking to me right now (whole other story). Meanwhile, I feel this urge to reach out to my aunt. I think she feels very alone in the family, no one has ever validated her, especially my dad. I grew up believing his version of everything, so much so that I became my grandmother's favorite grandchild.

I want to know more about my aunt's childhood and what my grandmother was like, and how my aunt felt about living in the shadow of my dad. Why? Why do I feel the need to know this? Will anything good come of me reaching out to her? My dad is a very frightened man underneath what seems to me like a very brittle, fragile shell of narcissism. I don't know if he's NPD, but he is definitely emotionally stunted, and an alcoholic. I think if he finds out I talked to my aunt, it will make him feel very insecure and angry that I did something without asking him first. I imagine my aunt must feel very bitter -- I haven't seen her for about 5 or 6 years. Maybe she will use our conversation to try and "get even" with my dad? Or use our conversation to kind of validate her experience to my dad?

Thanks. I'm divorced from N/BPDx now, and have been chipping away at my stuff with my dad. Sometimes it leaves me feeling lightheaded and dizzy. It's so exhausting.

[PrettyPlease]

I just read The Borderline Mother by Christine Lawson... .

Hi livenlearned,

I read that book recently also, and your situation is familiar to me, so I'll try to answer some of your questions from my experience.

Did anyone here experience being "all good" growing up with a BPD mother? Or have a sibling who is "all good"? What is it like for you (or for your sibling?)

I believe my mother was a uBPD/NPD, my father uNPD and I was the golden child (to my mother); my sister the bad child. Answering what that was like for her is perhaps not my place, beyond saying "not very nice"; I think she may have BPD also, and some co-morbid conditions (she was molested by my father).

I can answer for myself most succinctly by saying that I've very recently worked through the diagnostic questions in "Reinventing Your Life" by Young and Klosko, and found I scored outside the normal range (high) in the Emotional Deprivation, Social Exclusion, and Unrelenting Standards 'schemas' (or 'lifetraps' as they also call them).

On reading the chapter for each of these, I found they describe me accurately. As 'golden child' I was expected to perform to a high standard (implicitly), and I did so in the hopes of reversing the Emotional Deprivation (lack of 'good enough mothering'. The combination of these two things was like a cat chasing its own tail; and add in some unusual physical traits and I got Social Exclusion (weird little geeky kid who got the highest marks in the class and always wanted to please people in authority. I did have friends, but even with them I was noticed as being more different than most, so I felt different in general).

I internalized this configuration, and, even after splitting from my family, I didn't see over the following three decades that through this system of Unrelenting Standards and (now self-imposed) Social Exclusion I was attempting to solve my original Emotional Deprivation, or, in other words, trying to get something that was never there from someone who was no longer there by doing something that wouldn't have gotten it for me anyway.  

And following this path often made me seem unemotional (cold), judgmental, or arrogant (according to the statistics I've gathered from my many failed relationships.    . Whereas, to me it seemed like I was being logical and rational and was working very hard at what I badly needed to do ("if you'll just get out of my face and let me"   ).

I want to know more about my aunt's childhood and what my grandmother was like, and how my aunt felt about living in the shadow of my dad. Why? Why do I feel the need to know this? Will anything good come of me reaching out to her?

Tough question and situation. My dad's family had an aunt I never got to know, and wondered about, and he was the golden boy in that family also.

But here I think it might be wise to recall something I got from one or more of 2010's posts, and other places too I think, which is that children of BPDs or BPD/NPD couples often grow up as enablers who deeply need to understand what our parents (/partners) want of us. We are so concerned with our belief that this understanding will give us what we lack that we become covert narcissists ourselves -- really in the same way that my Unrelenting Standards is a form of covert narcissism whose goal is recovering from Emotional Deprivation. Similarly, this attempt at understanding them is doomed to fail.

All we can really do is figure out that we are in this pattern, and then take steps to break it. The steps to breaking it are in "Reinventing Your Life" also. I don't think that book is the be-all and end-all of what those steps might consist of, but that's secondary; what's primary is recognizing that understanding ourselves is the way out of the drama; whereas understanding our parents/partners -- beyond the major realization that they had a PD -- is irrelevant, and trying to do it, beyond a certain point, is part of our trap.


I don't know if this matches your situation, but I hope it will help in some way.

PP

[GeekyGirl]

That book was absolutely life-changing for me, and it sounds like you got a lot from it, livednlearned. Finding out that your father was the "all good" child may help you understand his upbringing (and your aunt's as well) better.It's not uncommon for children of BPD parents to develop BPD/NPD themselves.

When someone (or something) is "all good" or "all bad," it's referred to as "splitting." That's very common in people with BPD, and as you've discovered, parents can split their children. There's some information about splitting here: BPD BEHAVIORS: Splitting

You'll find stories here from folks who were labeled all-good golden children and all-bad children by their parents. My mother would switch it up periodically: sometimes I was the "all-good" kid and sometimes I was the "all-bad" kid. It really seemed to depend on which way the wind was blowing.

Your aunt may foster some jealousy, anger, or other feelings of resentment towards your dad, and you're seeing that now. It's very painful to feel like your parent is favoring one child over the other. It's neither child's fault, but it's hard to not be jealous when you feel like your parent loves your sibling more than you. Sometimes that can pit siblings against each other--do you think that's what's going on between your aunt and your father?

Both all-good and all-bad children can have issues. The all-good children often lose their own identities to please their parents, and they're often more at risk for NPD. The all-bad children struggle with self-esteem issues, have a higher risk for BPD, and can become estranged.

You could also try Surviving a Borderline Parent. There's some good information there about what it's like to grow up with a borderline parent and how to recover.

Do you have specific questions about what it's like to be the "all-good" child vs. the "all-bad" child?

[mizdanielle72]

I was the "all Good" child for my BPD mother growing up. I was the one with the good grades who never got I trouble and my brothers definitely acted out.

It's difficult to be the all good one when life really hits you. It feels lonely and it's hard to relate with people sometimes. I fell out of the good graces with my mom when I finally stood up to her. It helped me tremendously at the time. That was in my 20s and since then I have gone back and forth as good... . or the bad one. Currently I am the bad one because I have decided to go NC.

I think you might want to consider talking to your aunt. Maybe she doesn't understand what was going on with her mother and she might benefit from becoming educated. I definitely have.

Knowing that you are not alone is such an amazing, healing, and wonderful feeling. Maybe your aunt needs that. 

[livednlearned]

I can answer for myself most succinctly by saying that I've very recently worked through the diagnostic questions in "Reinventing Your Life" by Young and Klosko, and found I scored outside the normal range (high) in the Emotional Deprivation, Social Exclusion, and Unrelenting Standards 'schemas' (or 'lifetraps' as they also call them).

Is this related to the Young Schema Questionnaire that was posted here on bpdfamily.com? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=202548.0

I think that questionnaire is to evaluate how we're doing now. I'll look for Reinventing Your Life because it sounds like it helps characterize childhood experiences when one or both parents is BPD. Thanks for mentioning it.

I internalized this configuration, and, even after splitting from my family, I didn't see over the following three decades that through this system of Unrelenting Standards and (now self-imposed) Social Exclusion I was attempting to solve my original Emotional Deprivation, or, in other words, trying to get something that was never there from someone who was no longer there by doing something that wouldn't have gotten it for me anyway.  

I deeply identify with this. Well said.   :'(

Children of BPDs or BPD/NPD couples often grow up as enablers who deeply need to understand what our parents (/partners) want of us. We are so concerned with our belief that this understanding will give us what we lack that we become covert narcissists ourselves -- really in the same way that my Unrelenting Standards is a form of covert narcissism whose goal is recovering from Emotional Deprivation. Similarly, this attempt at understanding them is doomed to fail.

I think I'm at a point in my healing where I'm able so see both perspectives simultaneously. Meaning, wanting to understand, and knowing why I want to understand. Does that make sense? The gain I'm seeking is not to repair a bond, or fill my cup, or improve the r/s with my dad. It's wanting to know where the booby traps are, in case I go ahead and reach out to my aunt. I can see that it won't change how vulnerable I feel, and it won't prevent the danger, and I know I'm doing it as a fall-back to old habits. It's like having a blanky. Doesn't really help, but it feels good to have one.

All we can really do is figure out that we are in this pattern, and then take steps to break it. The steps to breaking it are in "Reinventing Your Life" also. I don't think that book is the be-all and end-all of what those steps might consist of, but that's secondary; what's primary is recognizing that understanding ourselves is the way out of the drama; whereas understanding our parents/partners -- beyond the major realization that they had a PD -- is irrelevant, and trying to do it, beyond a certain point, is part of our trap.

Your comment made me realize that I need to evaluate my motives for reaching out to my aunt. I'm still puzzling through that, but I think what motivates me is the desire to connect with someone else in my family who felt lonely and isolated and invalidated. Wanting to understand how my dad will respond to that -- definitely rooted in decades of trying to predict harm and avoid it. I know that reaching out to her will be healing for me, and hopefully for her, but I have avoided it because I know it could be triggering for my dad.

[livednlearned]

Your aunt may foster some jealousy, anger, or other feelings of resentment towards your dad, and you're seeing that now. It's very painful to feel like your parent is favoring one child over the other. Sometimes that can pit siblings against each other--do you think that's what's going on between your aunt and your father?

She is respectful to my dad, and they have a relationship, but my dad is a very invalidating person and she probably experiences the pain from that. It wasn't mild or subtle favoritism either. My grandmother called my dad her number #1 son (she has two), and would say, "He's the child every mother wants."

Both all-good and all-bad children can have issues. The all-good children often lose their own identities to please their parents, and they're often more at risk for NPD. [/quote]
That is spot-on. I don't know if he's NPD, but he is definitely narcissistic. He might not be full-blown NPD, not like my ex, but he's in the ballpark. My mother is flying codependent, and my brother displays BPD traits. Still trying to unpack all this dynamic and understand how my patterns are connected.

Do you have specific questions about what it's like to be the "all-good" child vs. the "all-bad" child?

What I really want is a book about being the daughter of an all-good son of a BPD hermit/waif mother    while being the sister of a BPD brother. If anyone knows of such a book, please let me know  

My dad is the kind of all-good child that was always all-good. It didn't change. Why is the all-good child more at risk of being narcissistic? If he was all-good, and saw that his son was all-bad, does that mean he couldn't acknowledge it because it threatened his perception of himself as all-good? Do all-good children tend to view their own children as all-good or all-bad?

[livednlearned]

It's difficult to be the all good one when life really hits you. It feels lonely and it's hard to relate with people sometimes.

If you don't mind me asking, why is it harder to relate to people sometimes?

I think you might want to consider talking to your aunt. Maybe she doesn't understand what was going on with her mother and she might benefit from becoming educated. I definitely have.

Knowing that you are not alone is such an amazing, healing, and wonderful feeling. Maybe your aunt needs that. 

That's what I'm thinking. I'm trying to be very clear about my motivations in reaching out to her. I'm so hurt about my dad right now, and want to make sure I'm not purposefully trying to triangulate.

[PrettyPlease]

I can answer for myself most succinctly by saying that I've very recently worked through the diagnostic questions in "Reinventing Your Life" by Young and Klosko, and found I scored outside the normal range (high) in the Emotional Deprivation, Social Exclusion, and Unrelenting Standards 'schemas' (or 'lifetraps' as they also call them).

Is this related to the Young Schema Questionnaire that was posted here on bpdfamily.com? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=202548.0

Interesting question; I did the Schema Questionnaire a few months ago, and that's how I ended up attracted to "Reinventing Your Life", since it's also by Young as one of the authors. But the formulation and naming and layout of the system is significantly different, in four ways at least:

 1. The RYL and "lifetraps" is ten years earlier (1998 vs 2008, by a quick check of the dates).

 2. The later one appears to be primarily for therapists; it's a system for them to use in evaluating clients; whereas the earlier book is directly for the lay reader.

 3. The names of the categories are all different.

 4. The early book asks you to answer both for your present and your child self (separately) and then uses both answers; the later Schema Questionnaire asks questions only about what you feel/believe in the present.

It's tempting to assume that the later one is the 'new and improved version', but I don't think that's necessarily accurate; at least for me. I had a more direct   moment with the earlier book than I did with the Schema Questionnaire.

I think I'm at a point in my healing where I'm able so see both perspectives simultaneously. Meaning, wanting to understand, and knowing why I want to understand. Does that make sense? The gain I'm seeking is not to repair a bond, or fill my cup, or improve the r/s with my dad. It's wanting to know where the booby traps are, in case I go ahead and reach out to my aunt.

I know that reaching out to [my aunt] will be healing for me, and hopefully for her, but I have avoided it because I know it could be triggering for my dad.

Yes, it does make sense to me. As long as you prepare yourself for the worst possibilities (such as maybe both your aunt and father will be triggered, against each other and you). If you still see value in doing it even if this (or the worst you can think of) happens, because you have to do it for your own reasons, then good. But if not, you might want to talk it over with a therapist, or do it on paper and tuck it away in a drawer, or ritually burn it, or something.  

I can see that it won't change how vulnerable I feel, and it won't prevent the danger, and I know I'm doing it as a fall-back to old habits. It's like having a blanky. Doesn't really help, but it feels good to have one.

Or be one.   Another   moment I had a couple of months ago relates directly to the blanky, so I'll share it here. I did some reading on the 'transitional object', as originally formulated by Winnicott, and also some about narcissistic supply, and came to this, which I repeat to myself (when I need to) as a form of meta-transitional object:

 "I am my own transitional object.

  Narcissistic supply is a red herring.

  And I'm as close to the womb as I'm ever going to get."

What this means to me is that insofar as I'm a healthy person I've internalized the transitional object early on, and become capable of going to myself (internally) to get comfort. If, however, part of what I use to generate that comfort is "narcissistic supply" -- (wikipedia def: "... . a type of admiration, interpersonal support or sustenance drawn by an individual from his or her environment" -- then I'm in trouble, because my most reliable and natural self-soothing is, like the blanky, a representation of my mother's care; and I believe that to me as a child the mother was herself a metaphor for the womb, which had somehow unaccountably disappeared. Hence, there's no point in narcissistic supply (red herring) since my ability to represent the womb to myself is already learned and I have full control over it (unlike my narcissistic supply, which is always dicey and involves controlling or manipulating other people) and I'm as close to the womb as I'll ever be (this is partly a joke and partly not -- as is a blanky   ).

My apologies if I've gone over the top and around the bend here. Perhaps we can chalk it up to my "good child" need to understand + need to get appreciated/heard. And you did say you wanted some examples of what this means.  

PP