A movie quote and devaluation... A visualization.

[Depression = 72% of members]

A visual of how i experienced devaluation in round 2 and the eventual discard... .

This is a line from the movie Last of the Mohicans(with Daniel Day Lewis)... . An excellent movie surrounding The French and Indian War... .

"The situation is that his guns are bigger than mine and he has more of them. We keep our heads down while his troops dig 30 yards of trench a day. When those trenches are 200 yards from the fort and within range, he'll bring in his 15-inch mortars, lob explosive rounds over our walls, and pound us to dust."

This was how devaluation progressed for me.

I watched it all unfold.

The way the attacks intensified.

All aimed at me.

As the last of the missiles were inbound... . I told her, "i am not your enemy."

Made no difference.

Her targeting lens had painted me black.

I wanted to scream.

[Ironmanrises]

A visual of how i experienced devaluation in round 2 and the eventual discard... .

This is a line from the movie Last of the Mohicans(with Daniel Day Lewis)... . An excellent movie surrounding The French and Indian War... .

"The situation is that his guns are bigger than mine and he has more of them. We keep our heads down while his troops dig 30 yards of trench a day. When those trenches are 200 yards from the fort and within range, he'll bring in his 15-inch mortars, lob explosive rounds over our walls, and pound us to dust."

This was how devaluation progressed for me.

I watched it all unfold.

The way the attacks intensified.

All aimed at me.

As the last of the missiles were inbound... . I told her, "i am not your enemy."

Made no difference.

Her targeting lens had painted me black.

I wanted to scream.

[VeryFree]

Nice visualisation.

In my case it went on precisely this way, but with one special thing:

she denied she attacked me.

The boobytraps, the stealing of my stuff, the waking up in the middle of the night, the painting black were all part of my fantasy... . according to her.

[Aussie0zborn]

Same here. I often told her, "I am not your enemy" because I never was.

She could not comprehend this because what I was trying to do was protect her from herself. I soon reaslised that you can protect them from the world but you cant protect them from themselves so you end up being the target.

All very sad really.

[Ironmanrises]

Veryscared,

Thank you.

The denial... . How hurtful of her.

Must have made you feel even more isolated and targeted at the same time.

Aussie,

You were telling her that because she was targeting you specifically... . and only you.

You were justified in telling her that.

I know how damaging that must have felt.

There was so many times i literally wished i could have somehow reached inside her mind... . to the area where this targeting originated... .

Just to gently take her hand off of the fire button...

Almost like to tell her, "Its me, Ironmanfalls, the person you love, do you not remember?"... .

A foolish dream... . I know.

Under a rain of fire... . Desperation surfaced.

As my CIWS guns ran out of ammo... .

And all the missiles started impacting... .

There were further inbound missiles on the horizon... .

I was a burning wreck at that point.

I never felt more alone in my life.

[sunshinegrrrl]

I beat my pwBPD to the punch this time. He has been devaluing, ignoring and insulting me for over 3 weeks now. This go around I knew he has BPD and knew his insults were just part of his disordered thinking.  He is now infatuated and stalking some oxy addicted felon who just got out of jail after being locked up for 12 months. He has a real thing for drug addicts  He thinks they are exciting  I think he likes them because they are easier to control than me. This time I saw the onslaught coming. I put the kibosh on his little plan to discard me and changed my number   I kicked him to the curb this time before he could do it to me. I got to admit that feels pretty damn good

[Ironmanrises]

Sunshine,

I can imagine how damaging the devaluation must have been.

Even though you changed your number which is good... .

Stay NC.

So you never have to experience such horrible behavior like that again.

I could never do that if I have feelings invested.

It isn't in my personality makeup.

My only defense is to not have let her back onto my life that second time.

I failed at that.

[LetItBe]

That is pretty much how devaluation unfolded for me, too. 

I remember telling my ex, "I'm not your adversary," and he was speechless.  He just looked at me like he was confused.

It's so painful, being devalued, in spite of your best, most faithful, loving intentions and efforts.  Once it starts, it's like watching a train wreck.  You can't stop it.

A visual of how i experienced devaluation in round 2 and the eventual discard... .

This is a line from the movie Last of the Mohicans(with Daniel Day Lewis)... . An excellent movie surrounding The French and Indian War... .

"The situation is that his guns are bigger than mine and he has more of them. We keep our heads down while his troops dig 30 yards of trench a day. When those trenches are 200 yards from the fort and within range, he'll bring in his 15-inch mortars, lob explosive rounds over our walls, and pound us to dust."

This was how devaluation progressed for me.

I watched it all unfold.

The way the attacks intensified.

All aimed at me.

As the last of the missiles were inbound... . I told her, "i am not your enemy."

Made no difference.

Her targeting lens had painted me black.

I wanted to scream.

[Ironmanrises]

Letitbe,

I am truly sorry you underwent devaluation too.

I wouldnt wish this on my worse enemy.

The pain it inflicts... . Penetrates deep.

And spreads.

So awful.

When i was telling my exUBPDgf, "i am not your enemy."... .

It was literally like the words would not register.

At all.

It was like anything that came from me... . In that phase... . held no value.

I might as well have said nothing to her.

I cannot interact with that aspect of her ever again.

[LetItBe]

Thank you, Ironmanfalls.  I can relate so much to your experience and appreciate you sharing so much of your healing process with all of us.  I could have written exactly the part of your post that I bolded below (except I'd say "him" instead of "her"  ). 

I've been broken up w/my ex for a little over 5 months now... . still healing but gaining more clarity and strength gradually.  Recently, I've found that contrasting that r/s to others in my life really helps, especially asking myself if hit__ ever devalued me.  NO ONE has EVER devalued me the way that my recent BPDxbf did.  It really helps knowing that others have treated me respectfully, and I have made some wise choices in my life.  Even though I lost sight of it for a bit, I know how to treat myself well and will make more wise choices.

Letitbe,

I am truly sorry you underwent devaluation too.

I wouldnt wish this on my worse enemy.

The pain it inflicts... . Penetrates deep.

And spreads.

So awful.

When i was telling my exUBPDgf, "i am not your enemy."... .

It was literally like the words would not register.

At all.

It was like anything that came from me... . In that phase... . held no value.

I might as well have said nothing to her.

I cannot interact with that aspect of her ever again.

[Ironmanrises]

Letitbe,

Welcome.

Devaluation... . Hell on earth.

I share my horrific story so that others who have undergone/are undergoing the same do not feel alone and/or feel like they are losing their mind in the process.

All my time I spent lurking on here, all the accounts I read... . Is what made me see that what I experienced was actually real.

It is only thing that has helped me in any real sense.

I tried explaining this to my closest friends... . after a while they either told me "move on" "she is just an a$$hole" and what not.

No matter how precisely I showed them via things she would post on Facebook and Instagram that were aimed at me... .

Their response, "but she seems coherent and normal and happy in the stuff she is posting"... .

I wanted to SCREAM.

They couldn't see anything.

I felt utterly alone.

I no longer speak to them about this.

They have asked me recently, "how are you feeling?"... .

I simply reply "not good."

And I leave it at that.

Their invalidation(intentional or not) only hurt me further.

I cannot tolerate any more invalidation.

I tolerated far too much invalidation from my exUBPDgf.

Enough to almost kill me.

[Emelie Emelie]

I'm so sorry Ironman.  The devaluation is horrific.  I mean here we are with the person who is supposed to love us and they are ripping us to shreds.  The worst of it is then they'll suddenly be all "good" again and our heads are spinning off our bodies.  My BPDx got it about his anger issues, his jealousy issues... . but he seemed to have no awareness of the "devaluation" process.  He always felt justifiably "annoyed" about whatever he was tearing into me about.  Other people just don't understand.  I don't think you can unless you've been there.  It's been good for me to read your posts about this.  I'm missing him a lot and this helps me remember how much that hurt.

[Ironmanrises]

Emelie,

Sends you a  !

As you can see, I struggle with the devaluation.

I have endured it twice.

Second time knowingly... . which only made it far worse.

I compromised myself.

A deep betrayal to myself.

Attempting to repair that damage... . I don't even know how deep it goes.

Along with all the other damage... .

Seems so very daunting.

You mention justifiably annoyed... .

I can relate in that is what I detected from my ex too.

So hurtful.

Makes you feel even more worthless.

They can't/won't see this... .

Only compounds the hurt.

No realization of that.

The hurt spreads as a result.

[Learning_curve74]

I am a living, breathing, thinking, feeling human being, and as such, I am inherently worthy, valuable, and special. Nobody else can live my life, nobody else will touch the world and its people exactly in the way that I have and will continue to do in my life. As long as I personally try to live up to my values and conduct my life in a manner that I believe in, then nobody, and I mean nobody, has the power to devalue me!

Maybe there will be times that I feel devalued because of somebody else's actions or words, but when I examine the facts, that dark feeling will be erased by the shining light of clarity.

 to all

[LetItBe]

Amen! I wasn't sure I'd ever feel this way, but finally, I do feel worthy and very clear.  If I can get here, you can, too.

I am a living, breathing, thinking, feeling human being, and as such, I am inherently worthy, valuable, and special. Nobody else can live my life, nobody else will touch the world and its people exactly in the way that I have and will continue to do in my life. As long as I personally try to live up to my values and conduct my life in a manner that I believe in, then nobody, and I mean nobody, has the power to devalue me!

Maybe there will be times that I feel devalued because of somebody else's actions or words, but when I examine the facts, that dark feeling will be erased by the shining light of clarity.

 to all

[Clearmind]

Ironman, I can see you struggle with devaluation. Its part of the BPD cycle. What about it bothers you so much? Can you pinpoint it so you can begin to move through and not dwell on it?

To be impacted by devaluation the idealization must have been good. The two are linked so devaluation cannot be looked at in isolation. If you are placed on a high pedestal its a long way to fall - sounds like you fell hard. What was it about being idealized that you loved so much?

[Ironmanrises]

Clearmind,

What bothers me is the complete reversal in her feelings towards me.

She initiated the relationship with me first time.

Tells me that she loves everything about me(would constantly refer to my caring ways for example)... .

As we got closer, that triggered her into devaluation.

When she left, told me "there is nothing about you that i really like."

Left me.

Comes back 3 months later.

Begs and cries for me to let her back in.

Tells me, "i want my man back."

Apologizes profusely for her treatment of me when she devalued me and abruptly left.

Introduces me to her 2 sons(this was huge for me, tells me they are her weakness)... .

As we get even closer then first time, her sons start to bond with me... .

That triggers her again.

When she left again, tells me "there was nothing about you that i really liked."

Word for word exactly what she said first time.

I brought that to her attention.

Why did you come back to me if there was nothing about me that you really liked?

Why did you buy me an ipad mini if there was nothing about me that you really liked?

Why would you introduce me into your kids lives if there was nothing about me that you really liked?

My mind went haywire at that point.

She had no answer.

All of that.

That is what hurts.

Reversal.

My feelings are real. They do not reverse themselves like that.

[Clearmind]

Ironman, I completely get personalizing the devaluation stage - however my friend it was not about you yet you are very caught up in the fact that it is your fault. You are laying blame on yourself and believing what a disordered person is telling you about you - this speak volumes about how you feel about yourself.

We drag ourselves under further with self blame and when we self blame we cast blame at the other party when it was our business being there in the first place.

OK she initiated! You accepted. And while she was telling you she loved you she was likely to be showing all kinds of signs of instability, possibly raging, small digs, accusations, blame, isolation etc etc - you fill in the blanks. You were listening to the words spoken and not the actions.

Why did you come back to me if there was nothing about me that you really liked?

Why did ironman take a woman back who was showing signs the first time of being unstable and not being to provide what I need?

Why did you buy me an ipad mini if there was nothing about me that you really liked?

It’s a gift not a declaration of love. Again look at the actions.

Why would you introduce me into your kids lives if there was nothing about me that you really liked?

Introducing kids to partners really is a boundary issue. If the relationship is not stabilized and have been together for at least a good while – introducing kids early or when the r/s is not established is a boundary buster.

______

Establishing a healthy relationship is much more than iPads, introducing kids. The idealization phase is intense - why do we mistake intensity for love? Why do we not look at the actions and listen only for the words? Why do we sweep their behavior under the carpet and ignore it? Why don't we see the red flags? Why are we intent on "making it work" at the expense of our happiness.

I encourage you to start looking at these questions about you rather than concentrating on her. She is who she is, she showed you so many times who she was - we choose not to take any notice - why?

[Ironmanrises]

Clearmind,

Valid questions.

I have no answers currently.

[Clearmind]

Ironman, we bring our set of issues to relationships - this one, past ones. It really helps to start digging down to see why we were attracted to this particular relationship. You are new here I get that - we all find our space to explore us in our own time.

I strongly encourage you to see out some help/therapist - seeing a therapist is not a sign of weakness - I have read your history, I know what you been through and it would be great to gain the help of a professional. I see one! I like her so much after two years I am still exploring me - vulnerable? Yes but so worth it.

It helps in the interim to pull our partners apart why they did things - learning a little about BPD helps us to understand why they do what they do. For us - picking apart our ex's actually feeds the self blame/shame cycle. We all find the right time when we need to step out of that role.

We all learn our relationship skills from our primary care givers - always a good place to start!

[Ironmanrises]

Clearmind,

I cant afford a T.

I know it isnt a sign of weakness... .

Primary care givers... .

My mother is deaf(possible NPD)

Dad(doesnt display any disorders that i can detect)... .

At an early age, i had to learn to be very accommodating to by disabled mother... .

In turn... . She has always been overly critical on everything i do/dont do... .

Perhaps this is where i picked up my caretaking role... .

[Learning_curve74]

I cant afford a T.

I'm not sure of the right resource to search online, but there are counselors/therapists who charge on a sliding scale depending on ability to pay. And some municipalities may even have a free mental health clinic. It's worth checking out. The forums and the people who participate here are awesome, but therapy is a different thing from what we get here and well worth it in my opinion. I see it as an investment in myself.

Primary care givers... .

My mother is deaf(possible NPD)

Dad(doesnt display any disorders that i can detect)... .

At an early age, i had to learn to be very accommodating to by disabled mother... .

In turn... . She has always been overly critical on everything i do/dont do... .

Perhaps this is where i picked up my caretaking role... .

I know you like movies, have you ever heard this quote from "The Crow":

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Ironman, I have come to believe that our childhood traumas do help shape our behaviors as adults. But as adults we also can follow a path of self-discovery and learn from our past. For example, my father was very critical and never showed any outward displays of love whatsoever to anybody. As a son, my dad was my hero, I so wanted to be loved by him of course, but he rarely spent any time on me, and in general the only times he spoke to me were to criticize me and tell me how big a disappointment I was. He was extremely self centered and all his interpersonal relationships were extremely shallow, surface only. It is only in the wake of my failed BPD relationship that I recognized all these things even though they were staring me in the face all these years!

My BPDex gave me validation by loving me so intensely in the idealization phase -- the opposite of what I received from my father. She was also always extremely grateful to have me be her rescuer, it gave me a sense of worth that what I did for her mattered -- the opposite of how nothing I ever did was good enough for my father, who thought I was s**t and a huge disappointment. So basically, my BPDex fed me exactly what I've always craved for but never received as a child from my father. It was a highly charged extremely intense feeling of fulfilling my deepest cravings such that I also took the lying, cheating, BS that she dispensed as side dishes to me as well. 

For a long time I wanted to please my father, to try and gain his love and respect. And I see now that is part of why I stuck around trying to "fix" my BPDex, as I was used to trying and trying my hardest to get or fix something that was never within my power to begin with. And as an adult, I can recognize that now and work towards healing and growing from the pain and suffering of both of these relationships in my life. I know it might be controversial around here to say it, but in a way my unhealthy relationship with my BPDex was a gift. Through our struggles, I have been forced to look within myself and to grow, to reach towards a greater fulfillment of who I am.

I don't know if any of this resonates at all with you, Ironman. I was hoping that maybe it touched on your experiences in some small way to open yourself up to self-examination and a path towards healing. 

[LetItBe]

Ironman, I bet you're onto something and that it's highly probable that you picked up your care-taking role from your r/s with your mother.  I, too, learned to be very accommodating to my mother.  She was diagnosed bipolar by the family doctor, but I believe after learning about BPD, that she likely had BPD, too.  I survived my childhood by trying to soothe and protect her in hopes that she would stop raging, that I would win her consistent affection, and she would protect me from my sexually abusive father.  She failed to protect me, and he was only removed from our household when I was 13 by CPS when they were given a tip by my sister's exbf.  Somehow, I still viewed my mom as a victim, trying to rescue her, until I was in my 30's.  Like learning_curve said, I didn't have all of this insight about my care-taking tendencies until I was healing in the aftermath of my r/s with my BPDxbf.

My BPDxbf put me up on such a pedestal.  He was so grateful for my efforts to help him.  In the beginning, I received so much affection from him, and we did activities together (like cooking) that my mom would never do with me.  He seemed to know exactly what I was missing, and he filled that empty spot.  It was a highly charged fulfillment of my deepest cravings (as learning_curve so eloquently explained).  Usually.  Then, even more sporadically, until the pain outweighed the "love."  Just like my mom.  It really hurt to lose the "love" I thought I'd finally "earned."  The thing is, though, we don't have to do anything to be truly loved.  We are all inherently worthy of love, even if our BPDx's aren't treating us lovingly, even after we've fallen so hard off the pedestal.

I echo learning_curve's encouragement to seek out some affordable therapy.  I myself would never have gotten this far without therapy.  The boards here are an excellent resource, but I've found them even more helpful as a supplement to therapy.

I hope some of this resonates with you, Ironman.

[Ironmanrises]

Learning,

I will check that out, thank you.

Nice movie quote reference, i saw that movie long ago.

Your reference to childhood trauma does resonate with me... .

My exUBPDgf morph into that monster full of insults, criticisms, and what not... .

Mimics my mothers not too dissimilar criticisms.

It hurts to even make that connection.

I tried to cater to both of them.

Letitbe,

I am so sorry that you experienced such trauma throughout.

Saddens me.

Your words resonate with me as well.

[HappilyNeverAfter]

So based on the quote, what do we do.  I am not an inherently combative person.  But, in this case, with my two sons caught in the carnage, do I dig my own trench and fight back, or turn and head for the hills as she mortars me?

I want to attack... .verbally, socially, in the court system, but how?  How can I take this person that I loved, idealized, cherished, and destroy her.  I know I would only be destroying her existence in "my world" as she has other worlds, but I still am so uneasy about it.

[Ironmanrises]

Happily... .

I am truly sorry for the position... .

That you are placed in... .

With your 2 sons.

I can't... .

Even fathom... .

How difficult that must be.

I feel for you.

The quote is more... .

On the inevitable... .

Outcome... .

Of the devaluation phase... .

That leads to the final discard.

The constant firing... .

Of the bigger guns... .

While you keep your head down... .

Is the projectiles launched... .

(The insults, put downs, what not)... .

Coming from the person you love... .

And as they amp up the firing... .

They dig the trenches... .

To bring in the mortars... .

(The more lethal weapons)... .

And once they are in range... .

Which is the day of discard... .

That is when they launch... .

Those shells... .

Over your walls... .

And pound us(the non)... .

To dust.

My visual of what I experienced.

Twice.

My only advice... .

As I have no kids... .

Is to protect yourself... .

And your kids... .

And get out of her firing range... .

As best as you can.

Hang in there Happily.

We are here for you.

[DragoN]

HappilyNeverAfter

So based on the quote, what do we do.  I am not an inherently combative person.  But, in this case, with my two sons caught in the carnage, do I dig my own trench and fight back, or turn and head for the hills as she mortars me?

You have your boys 50/50 and more as she is not too interested in really taking care of them.  She can toss bombs, and she will. To avoid them, suggest you find out what your legal rights are. Protect yourself financially for yours and the boys sakes. Be recording and logging all instances of verbal abuse. You may or may not be able to use it in court, but your lawyer can always give it a listen.

I want to attack... .verbally, socially, in the court system, but how?  How can I take this person that I loved, idealized, cherished, and destroy her.  I know I would only be destroying her existence in "my world" as she has other worlds, but I still am so uneasy about it.

Destruction is not necessary. Removal. She can be removed, or you remove yourself. Either way the outcome is the same. Log and record all incidents, Record where/ when possible. Keep all communications for back up. You don't want to catch yourself in a he said she said dispute. Have evidence.

PD's don't "fight fair" . The sense of entitlement is gargantuan and without precedence.