Similarities to Primary Relationships

[Hazelrah]

I have read a number of times that the relationship we nons have with our pwBPD is similar to the type we have with a parent, and that losing the r/s is much like the loss of said parent.  The more I analyze my r/s with my separated BPDw, the more I tend to understand and accept this concept.   

Growing up, I had a terrible relationship with my step-father.  He was an alcoholic, married my mom way too young, and often told me he was going to divorce her because of me.  He was verbally abusive much of the time, and physically abusive on rare occasions.  Even rarer were the times where he showed any sort of kindness or anything resembling unconditional love... . yet those fleeting moments were incredibly special to me, and when he was in a caring or loving mood the world felt much safer and more comfortable for that period of time. 

In my relationship with my BPDw, although the dynamics weren’t nearly as dramatic, I, like most of us, was always chasing the idealization phase, or aching to be painted white, etc.—and that was before she’d been officially diagnosed with BPD!  It was like my step-dad all over again.  The love she showed when in these phases really felt like that unconditional love I’d always been lacking as a child, at least from my step-father.  The world would feel right, and that empty hole in my soul was filled temporarily.  And when the inevitable split would occur, I’d re-live the confusion, shame, and helplessness I’d experienced through most of my formative years.  Like my step-dad, no amount of reason or logic could ever be used to help explain or defend myself—and since my W wasn’t diagnosed until the latter stages of our relationship, I didn’t start to learn the value of validation until it was likely too late. 

Interestingly enough, as an adult, my relationship with my step-father has done a complete 180, and I count him as a key member of my support system as I struggle through the nightmare of a marriage trudging along a Bataan Death March to divorce.  Unfortunately, I can’t envision a similar turnaround ever occurring with my W, no matter how much I might want it sometimes…I don’t know that I’ll ever be ‘white’ again, and it is a really hard thing to have to accept.

   

So if losing a BPD is like losing a parent, then I’ve been hit with a double-whammy in a short period of time, having recently lost a mother to cancer and now a beloved wife to mental illness and a recycled dysfunctional boyfriend. 

I’ve actually been coping (somewhat) okay of late…but today I’m in a self-reflective phase and it feels like a real setback, emotionally speaking.   

[Lao Tzu]

Dear Hazelrah,

     This is a very hard realization to come to (most people never get there, as far as I can see) and even harder to share.  Congratulations on your willingness to plumb your own soul.  It's my opinion that while we can't go back and change things in our past (boy would I like to!), this exercise in understanding has almost the same result as doing that.  After a lifetime of driving myself and having the constant voice in my head berating me, I've learned to like myself a whole lot more.  This seems like very little improvement but I think it's the key as accepting you fully is the only thing the pwBPD ever really did for us.  When we are able to do that for ourselves, they have no power over us.

LT 

[Hazelrah]

Thanks, Lao Tzu.  How nice it is to converse with one of the ancient masters... .

Good insight--my pwBPD really did fully accept me for who I am (at least for a period of time), and it was/is an addictive feeling since I could never get that 'fix' for myself.  It's one of many things that have been ripped away too fast and too soon into our marriage, yet it drives home the fact that we are all responsible for establishing our own feelings of self-worth.

[Lao Tzu]

Dear Hazelrah,

     By the way, being in a reflective mood is a good thing.  You're doing work rather than just trying to wall off the pain you are experiencing.  You've suffered and are still suffering great loss and you will get "over it" only by engaging it as you are doing.  I told someone here once that it takes a lot more strength to cry a lot than it does to play a Clint Eastwood character in your own life story.  Take your time and expect that you will have days where you seem to be back to square one.  Don't let this fluster you; you're clearly making really good prgress despite the multiplicity of challenges you're facing! 

     Also, thanks for knowing about my importance in founding Taoism, but I must confess that I really just used this name because I discovered that in Chinese it meant "Old Man" and have been feeling pretty old lately. 

LT

[Learning_curve74]

So if losing a BPD is like losing a parent, then I’ve been hit with a double-whammy in a short period of time, having recently lost a mother to cancer and now a beloved wife to mental illness and a recycled dysfunctional boyfriend. 

I’ve actually been coping (somewhat) okay of late…but today I’m in a self-reflective phase and it feels like a real setback, emotionally speaking.   

Hey Hazelrah, condolences to you on losing your mother. That is tough. 

Reflecting on everything that has been happening and looking inwards at yourself is important, even if it does feel like a setback. Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better, y'know? The path is not relentlessly forwards and upwards, we sometimes slide back, go in circles, find ourselves lost for a bit. But if we are headed in the right general direction, then that's enough, it has to be.

Best wishes to you on your journey. 

[Hazelrah]

Thanks LC,

I expect the ups and downs--it doesn't surprise me.  I think the valleys creep back when I have to be in contact with her.  This is a woman I'm still married to, and although we aren't living in our home together I am still forced to have some e-mail/text communications on an LC basis.  I wish I was able to go completely NC as her communication is generally nasty or demanding, yet she projects and accuses me of being uncivil when I'm really trying to do the best I can in spite of my breaking heart.  I don't know if her anger is a mechanism of defense to protect her from her feelings of shame and guilt, or if she really does see me as black as it seems.  I can honestly say I've done nothing to merit such venom, and it hurts to have to be on the receiving end of it on a continuing basis. 

Like I mentioned in the original post, it really still re-opens a bunch of childhood scars of shame and confusion concerning things that I really never felt I deserved.

[Surnia]

Very interesting and important topic, Hazelrah!

My view on my FOO and my role in it has quite changed since my rs with my now xh. I think we tend to recreate some of the constellations of our primary relationships with our partners.

I always knew I had a difficult childhood with my bipolar mother. I realized for the first time, what huge impact it had on my own behavior.

Realizing this  we can step out of the victim role and we can grow.

It is painful, Hazelrah, it needs courage and it is worthwhile! 

[Learning_curve74]

I don't know if her anger is a mechanism of defense to protect her from her feelings of shame and guilt, or if she really does see me as black as it seems.  I can honestly say I've done nothing to merit such venom, and it hurts to have to be on the receiving end of it on a continuing basis.

 

It's possibly a little of both? And as you said, even though you don't deserve it, you still feel hurt to be hit by her words and actions. It's hard to deal with when you're in the middle of it all, but that's really her deal, unfortunately you are being hit with the fallout. I can't remember, do you two have children together?

Like I mentioned in the original post, it really still re-opens a bunch of childhood scars of shame and confusion concerning things that I really never felt I deserved.

It's good to face these things, sometimes it takes a crisis to make us examine ourselves in this way. You are lucky in a way. Also, from your stepfather's example, the takeaway lesson might be that you can see there is real hope for you to grow and change as well.

[Hazelrah]

Surnia,

Stepping out of the victim role is definitely my full intention; I have made strides in doing so, though it still does little to take away the shock and hurt of the situation.  Baby steps, I suppose.

LC,

No, we don't have children... . she has a serious heart defect and doctors advised her against ever getting pregnant.  She often vacillated between wanting to adopt and conversely admitting to herself she'd make an awful mother... . it was hard for me to keep up with from week to week!  In any event, having no kids makes things a little simpler I suppose.

I have been trying to make the best out of a situation I still consider my worst nightmare come true.  ACT therapy is helping to deal with some of my issues of self-esteem, codependcy, etc.  I sometimes find myself holding out hope that my W makes strides as well, as she has been in DBT for a couple of months--but I have to catch myself and remember the focus needs to be on me for now.

[musicfan42]

I sometimes find myself holding out hope that my W makes strides as well, as she has been in DBT for a couple of months--but I have to catch myself and remember the focus needs to be on me for now.

I think that you have a lot of self-awareness and courage... I definitely like how you say "the focus needs to be on me". Maybe scratch the "for now" bit though?

[ucmeicu2]

I have read a number of times that the relationship we nons have with our pwBPD is similar to the type we have with a parent, and that losing the r/s is much like the loss of said parent.

i've been reading this concept a lot, too but i can't quite wrap around it.

both of my parents have died.  i was close to both of them, loved them, had good r/s's w/them, etc.  and while those deaths created much pain i have to honestly say that breaking with my BPDgf was worse.   a lot worse.  i have never felt such excruciating or long lasting pain. 

i thought it was love, that she was the person i've loved the most deeply, intensely, truely, selflessly, etc.  but everything i read here at BPDfam is contrary to that and indicates it was NOT love.  that it was something much more sinister and mentally ill on my part. 

i am confoozled and feel at an impass.

icu2

[Hazelrah]

I have read a number of times that the relationship we nons have with our pwBPD is similar to the type we have with a parent, and that losing the r/s is much like the loss of said parent.

i've been reading this concept a lot, too but i can't quite wrap around it.

both of my parents have died.  i was close to both of them, loved them, had good r/s's w/them, etc.  and while those deaths created much pain i have to honestly say that breaking with my BPDgf was worse.   a lot worse.  i have never felt such excruciating or long lasting pain. 

i thought it was love, that she was the person i've loved the most deeply, intensely, truely, selflessly, etc.  but everything i read here at BPDfam is contrary to that and indicates it was NOT love.  that it was something much more sinister and mentally ill on my part. 

i am confoozled and feel at an impass.

icu2

ucmeicu2 ,

I will agree with you 100% that the level of pain I'm going through now is definitely much worse than what I experienced when my mom passed.  First off, there was nothing I could do to reverse the chronic illness she experienced--it was something I simply had to accept.  Of course, I know I have to accept the likely dissolution of my marriage as well, but these feelings are much more complicated... . sifting through them is posing the single greatest challenge of my life to this point.

Secondly, and most ironically, the support of my W at the time actually eased a lot of the pain of losing my mom.  Having her support was paramount to me coping with the death in a healthy way.  And it's those fleeting examples of her ability to be a good person that make it so hard to let go, despite her other tendencies to destroy everything and everyone in her wake.

[Lao Tzu]

Dear ucmeicu2,

     The parental r/s that the pwBPD mimics isn't the mature, logical one that we have as adults (or even mature children) when our parents pass.  It is the fairly 'primordial' one that is established while we are infants and it is thus completely impervious to logic.  As an infant our parent(s) are rather god-like, in a way.  The r/s we have with them is hard-wired into our brains to assist in survival and it's as basic a response as anything can be in our lives.  You can't compare it to the r/s after we mature a bit and most experts in the area describe this kind of bond as always being formed prior to age six.  The sad disaster of these BPD 'r/s' is that they are able to simulate this ancient link so closely. 

LT

[ucmeicu2]

Dear ucmeicu2,

     The parental r/s that the pwBPD mimics isn't the mature, logical one that we have as adults (or even mature children) when our parents pass.  It is the fairly 'primordial' one that is established while we are infants and it is thus completely impervious to logic.  As an infant our parent(s) are rather god-like, in a way.  The r/s we have with them is hard-wired into our brains to assist in survival and it's as basic a response as anything can be in our lives.  You can't compare it to the r/s after we mature a bit and most experts in the area describe this kind of bond as always being formed prior to age six.  The sad disaster of these BPD 'r/s' is that they are able to simulate this ancient link so closely. 

lao tzu i must thank you for somehow phrasing that in a way that made it more understandable to me than anything else i've read.

it strikes me that these BPD r/s are like our 2 inner children having the r/s, not us as the chronological adults in grown-up bodies.  i'm sure that's at least part of why i felt so out of control and so unable to break away in neither a timely nor graceful fashion.

icu2

[myself]

it really still re-opens a bunch of childhood scars of shame and confusion concerning things that I really never felt I deserved.

yet it drives home the fact that we are all responsible for establishing our own feelings of self-worth.

Problem/ Situation (This is how it used to be, it's changing)

Solution/ Future (This is who you are right now, and will be)

The deeper we dive, the more roots we find.

The more light we bring with us, better healing will occur.

[livednlearned]

I have read a number of times that the relationship we nons have with our pwBPD is similar to the type we have with a parent, and that losing the r/s is much like the loss of said parent.

i've been reading this concept a lot, too but i can't quite wrap around it.

By any chance did you have a parent who told you how to perceive him or her?

That's what was so confusing for me. My whole life, my father told me what to believe, and i did. I never questioned his view of anything, including himself. But what I was told to believe, and what was true didn't match. Didn't figure that out until my T helped me unravel it.

I'm not sure if my father is NPD. He might just be an "all good" child with strong narcissistic traits. Not an evil man, at least not compared to some stories here. But he can skitter away from difficult feelings like a pro, and that was a chronic, insidious way to invalidate. That, plus a BPD brother, and I can see how my FOO was a set-up for my N/BPD marriage.

Invalidation can be remarkably well masked.

[Hazelrah]

Livednlearned,

I can't say either parent ever overtly told me how to perceive them.  Rather, I feel it was turned around on me--my step-dad's irrational anger made me perceive myself as bad, wrong, or always at fault for something or other.  The crazy thing is that I was a really good kid--I was enrolled in a school for gifted children, got good grades, was well-behaved, and never really engaged in any sort of rebellious behavior, even through my teen years.  Yet through my teens, and even into my early twenties, the resentment I had for him made our relationship even more contentious, to the point where we actually became involved in a pretty serious physical altercation at one point.

The fact is that he carried his own baggage from a truly horrible upbringing, and ended up unleashing much of it on me.  For some reason, my brother (my step-dad's biological son) seemed to escape all this unscathed, which only served to make me devalue myself further.  It took me a long time to understand that I wasn't responsible for my step-father's childhood and didn't deserve much of the treatment I received all those years.  It's gone a long way towards helping us achieve a much more peaceful, fulfilling relationship... .that, and the fact he's mellowed considerably with age.

As far as your upbringing goes, it's pretty common for children to accept most everything their parents tell them, especially during those crucial formative years.  And it can be a slippery slope if they display any sort of avoidant traits, as you hint your father did.  It teaches us poor lessons in how to deal with difficult emotions, situations, etc., which often leads to dysfunctional traits in our adult years. 

[ucmeicu2]

I have read a number of times that the relationship we nons have with our pwBPD is similar to the type we have with a parent, and that losing the r/s is much like the loss of said parent.

i've been reading this concept a lot, too but i can't quite wrap around it.

By any chance did you have a parent who told you how to perceive him or her? ... .That's what was so confusing for me. My whole life, my father told me what to believe, and i did. I never questioned his view of anything, including himself. But what I was told to believe, and what was true didn't match. Didn't figure that out until my T helped me unravel it. <cut> Invalidation can be remarkably well masked.

hmmm, well as hazelrah said, i don't think my parents told me how to perceive them directly.   but i've always been a trusting person and accept people at face value... .and and even tho i KNOW intellectually that actions speak louder than words, i have always put almost all the emphasis on what they say.  so that left me being a person who questioned very little, just accepted whatever they said, and then of course have been left confused/hurt by the discrepancy - and in the case of my xBPDgf, multiply that pain exponentially.

so when you say "Invalidation can be remarkably well masked"  i just don't even know where to begin to remember/unravel/re-interpret my childhood.  between their part and my part i feel like i have permanent blinders on. 

thank you,

icu2