Lies Lies Lies... then how does he make them seem so truthful?

[Newkate]

My head is in quite a funk. Really bad today.

I know I should not have looked for closure, because I don't think closure exists when it comes to someone with pwBPD. But stupidly, I thought I could try to understand a bit more. Now I am here, feeling heartbroken all over again.

Nothing makes sense. There were not any problems in our relationship except when he would dysregulate and break up with me. Be a completely different person for months at a time. This is the only problem I was aware of. When he was not dysregulated, he would constantly tell me he wanted to be with my for the rest of his life, that he wanted to marry me, that he wanted a family with me, that I was the best thing to ever happen to him. Constantly. Every day I felt so in love. Every day I felt he was so happy with us. Then the outside stress came. Then I was discarded, like a piece of trash. I was made to believe everything was good. There was never an issue that was brought up to me.

Today he told me that we return to solve problems the same way we created them and that infuriates him. I told him that the only problem is him pushing me away when he is stressed. He keeps turning everything around. Saying I watched him bleed out, and did nothing. I did so much. I always did everything I could to try to make him happy. It was never enough. He just told me that I was the one who made him miserable. That I was the trigger. That without me, there would be no misery.

This is breaking my heart all over again. Why am I letting myself believe these lies? I know the truth. But still I am so hurt.

[Just Stumbling Along]

I am sorry that you are going through this!

I believe that you are mostly right when you say that there is no closure from a relationship with a pwBPD.  Whatever closure you get will come from yourself; not from the pwBPD.  I found that the more contact that I had with my stb xW uBPD, the more confused I became.  But once I realized that she was BPD, I began to realize that nothing she says is true.  None of the actions that seem "normal" or caring are real.  One day I am the most wonderful man, the love of her life, the best thing that ever happened to her, etc.  The next day, I am evil incarnate.  The inability to be wrong or at fault and the projection makes reality turn upside down.  Every bizarre thing that they did is now what you did.  Or it is your fault, because they would not have done this if you hadn't made them do it. 

I don't know how they make the lies seem so believable.  My xW could look you in the eye and absolutely sincerely tell a complete lie about anything.  I finally realized this and realized that I could not believe anything.  I had to learn to disregard anything she said.  this is unbelievably emotionally painful, but for me the only way out to sanity.

Hope you are doing better

Best wishes     

[Reg]

Hi Newkate,

Sorry to hear of what you've been through.  I know how you feel and have been there myself.

There's nothing wrong with being hurt.  It is a very human and normal reaction.

It is not the person, it is nothing personal, it is all the borderline.  It is important to remind yourself of that as it is the truth.

Borderline is not about the truth, borderline is about what they think and believe on that specific moment.  For us the truth is the truth, for them the truth can become what is indeed a lie to us, but they don't grasp that due to the BPD.

They are so scared that we will leave them, that the most irrational thing can trigger their greatest fear of abandonment.  A very good example from my past situation was not answering a text within minutes, or not directly answering a phone call when I was for example at work or in a meeting.

It was enough to trigger that fear.

They do not lie intentionally, it is just normal borderline behavior.  And their mistakes become yours, they are projecting them on you.  Why ?  Because they can not cope with guilt, shame, anger, fears... .

It is very hard in or after a relationship to know what you can still believe of what they have said, as Just Stumbling Along mentioned as well.

I know there's one thing I could believe, these rare moments where the scared person came to the surface, and told how she really felt.

Understanding borderline as good as possible, and understanding myself and my own issues and past unsolved trauma's, did help me a lot.

Take care, better days will come, it sounds like a cliché, but I speak from my own experience. 

Reg

[Learning_curve74]

Hi Newkate, sounds like you are feeling particularly bad today, it's okay because we all have days like that. Days where we really need a hug. 

There were not any problems in our relationship except when he would dysregulate and break up with me. Be a completely different person for months at a time. This is the only problem I was aware of.

This sounds like a pretty big problem, definitely one you cannot just happily ignore. It might possibly be a problem that will never go away. Can you live with that? Is that what you really want? Some people can deal with this type of on/off relationship, some people can't.

Today he told me that we return to solve problems the same way we created them and that infuriates him. I told him that the only problem is him pushing me away when he is stressed. He keeps turning everything around. Saying I watched him bleed out, and did nothing. I did so much. I always did everything I could to try to make him happy. It was never enough. He just told me that I was the one who made him miserable. That I was the trigger. That without me, there would be no misery.

I know you are feeling hurt, any normal person would feel devastated to hear these things from somebody they love. Not that it will take away your hurt, but to him, in the moment his feelings are facts, so when he feels bad about your relationship he believes you hurt him and made him miserable and acts upon those feelings in the moment. He doesn't have the filter or the patience to process through his feelings, to remember that you actually loved and cared for him so much in the past; his intense fear and pain blocks that out.

The only way to get through your hurt, and it really truly hurts because I have felt the same pain as you Newkate, is to come to the realization that what he says is his world, there is literally nothing you can do to change it because he is the only person that has power over that. He is both the good things and the bad things. Your choice is whether you can accept that or not. If you really want to be with somebody who has these huge problems, then you have to figure out why and that means looking very deeply within yourself. Hang in there, it's tough but you are strong enough.

[Ironmanrises]

Newkate,

The lies... . I can relate.

I noticed my exUBPDgf would begin to omit information in devaluation.

Now I will never know if anything she said to me was ever 100% truth.

I know exactly how you feel.

So hurtful.

I am truly sorry you have experienced that.

The whole not taking it personal... . I understand they are disordered... .

However... . How can you not take it personal when ALL of their words, behavior... . Atrocious and venomous... . Is aimed only at you?

It is not easy.

[NiceGuy83]

Newkate, I think you're starting to see the reasons why No Contact is advocated for so strongly when separating from a pwBPD. 

The urge to engage in further contact can be huge, but it's like kicking an addiction.  Struggle through it, and the urge will pass for a while.  Then come back, then pass, etc, etc, etc.  Eventually, it'll stop feeling nearly so strong, and finally, disappear.  But you have to not let them initiate either.  Delete texts and emails without reading them.  Politely disengage if they call, and for heavens sake change your number if you need to. 

We will often allow any excuse to enable the possibility of further contact to remain.  It's like an alcoholic having a bottle in the house, though.  We're just torturing ourselves, and eventually, we will probably drink. 

[fromheeltoheal]

The hardest part to accept is that we were emotionally enmeshed with a mentally disordered person, scary when you think about it.  Although we parse and reparse the words that were said, it's not about the words, it's about the actions, all of them, they are the truth.  It doesn't matter how awesome and selfless we were either, it will never be enough, and we cannot fix it.  And they lose too, the only winner is the disorder.

In fact, ignore the words that were said when the BPD is triggered; BPD is a shame-based disorder, and when the shame comes, so does the projection, and you will be the scum of the earth, you have to be, or else their head will explode.  And it has absolutely nothing to do with you.

You probably know all this, but maybe get some value?  Be strong, heal, and good luck making it through!  Things get better, a lot better.

[toomanytears]

[quote author=fromheeltoheal link=topic=209012.msg12309360#msg12309360 date=1378434559

In fact, ignore the words that were said when the BPD is triggered; BPD is a shame-based disorder, and when the shame comes, so does the projection, and you will be the scum of the earth, you have to be, or else their head will explode.  And it has absolutely nothing to do with you.[/quote]
Yes this is so helpful hh (love your name). My BPDh is coming home for the weekend after walking out (he says I threw him out) a few weeks ago. I'm longing to see him on the one hand but dreading the reattachment on the other and what it will do to me. 

I know NC is the only way to get over him but I am thinking up all kinds of excuses to keep him coming home. It's quite unhealthy isn't it. But we've been married 30 years and there's a lot to untangle. I'm kidding myself he was the love of my life but actually, if I'm honest, I have spent alot of the last ten years trying to work out how to extricate myself. Now I have the chance I've allowed the BPD drug to take hold and I think about him every waking moment.Looking at photos of BPDh just now is quite good therapy as I can see the unengaged look in his eyes and it reminds me of how he really is. 

I can't stop myself seeing him this weekend but I am going to concentrate on 'hearing' his actions not his words. I'm going to validate but not in an apologising way, as I have done in the past. Let's see how it goes... .

[patientandclear]

Nothing makes sense. There were not any problems in our relationship except when he would dysregulate and break up with me. Be a completely different person for months at a time. This is the only problem I was aware of. When he was not dysregulated, he would constantly tell me he wanted to be with my for the rest of his life, that he wanted to marry me, that he wanted a family with me, that I was the best thing to ever happen to him. Constantly. Every day I felt so in love. Every day I felt he was so happy with us. Then the outside stress came. Then I was discarded, like a piece of trash. I was made to believe everything was good. There was never an issue that was brought up to me.

Me, too.  Everything was wonderful, until it wasn't.  The identified problem made no sense, I was given no chance to address it before he ended things, and a few months later it evaporated in a few minutes' talk when we finally did get together again to talk.  I know how wrenching it is to lose so much for no identifiable reason that arose between you.  Of course, the reason does exist -- it is just internal to his emotional makeup.

He keeps turning everything around. Saying I watched him bleed out, and did nothing. I did so much. I always did everything I could to try to make him happy. It was never enough. He just told me that I was the one who made him miserable. That I was the trigger. That without me, there would be no misery.

Not that it would represent "the truth," but did he explain what he meant by you "watched him bleed out?"

It is clear from all you've written how loving toward him & committed to him you were (are).  So whatever the "bleed out" scenario was, it's undoubtedly an instance like one time when I didn't text back right away the day after I had a particularly close session with my uBPDexbf.  He was feeling intensely connected to me and then there was a little gap in responding while I was in a meeting.  He immediately emailed about the "text silence" and assumed it happened because I was offended by something completely nice that he'd texted.  The ways in which we can not provide enough attention/responsiveness/validation are endless and unavoidable.  If I were a more dedicated gf & friend, I'd have been a smothering mess.  I loved him so much and paid so much attention to him, his thoughts, his issues.  Even now he comments on that.  Yet, he still couldn't trust me to take care of his feelings & had to leave.  It is an iron-clad trap they are in mentally, one that doesn't allow for facts and experience to override their certainty that they will be hurt by those closest to them.

[Ironmanrises]

Nothing makes sense. There were not any problems in our relationship except when he would dysregulate and break up with me. Be a completely different person for months at a time. This is the only problem I was aware of. When he was not dysregulated, he would constantly tell me he wanted to be with my for the rest of his life, that he wanted to marry me, that he wanted a family with me, that I was the best thing to ever happen to him. Constantly. Every day I felt so in love. Every day I felt he was so happy with us. Then the outside stress came. Then I was discarded, like a piece of trash. I was made to believe everything was good. There was never an issue that was brought up to me.

Me, too.  Everything was wonderful, until it wasn't.  The identified problem made no sense, I was given no chance to address it before he ended things, and a few months later it evaporated in a few minutes' talk when we finally did get together again to talk.  I know how wrenching it is to lose so much for no identifiable reason that arose between you.  Of course, the reason does exist -- it is just internal to his emotional makeup.

He keeps turning everything around. Saying I watched him bleed out, and did nothing. I did so much. I always did everything I could to try to make him happy. It was never enough. He just told me that I was the one who made him miserable. That I was the trigger. That without me, there would be no misery.

Not that it would represent "the truth," but did he explain what he meant by you "watched him bleed out?"

It is clear from all you've written how loving toward him & committed to him you were (are).  So whatever the "bleed out" scenario was, it's undoubtedly an instance like one time when I didn't text back right away the day after I had a particularly close session with my uBPDexbf.  He was feeling intensely connected to me and then there was a little gap in responding while I was in a meeting.  He immediately emailed about the "text silence" and assumed it happened because I was offended by something completely nice that he'd texted.  The ways in which we can not provide enough attention/responsiveness/validation are endless and unavoidable.  If I were a more dedicated gf & friend, I'd have been a smothering mess.  I loved him so much and paid so much attention to him, his thoughts, his issues.  Even now he comments on that.  Yet, he still couldn't trust me to take care of his feelings & had to leave.  It is an iron-clad trap they are in mentally, one that doesn't allow for facts and experience to override their certainty that they will be hurt by those closest to them.

Everything in bold.

That.

That is what hurts.

I experienced that twice.

My attempting to address it... . Only annoyed her.

[Moonie75]

Emotions run VERY HIGH at the end of any relationship, even break ups between two healthy people!

But when dealing with BPD you can 'up' those emotional levels to absolute flat out top gear.

Anything other than NC is poking a very hungry angry bear with a stick. The bear gets more angry, and we get (at best) mauled but more likely, eaten alive!

I've realized from my own experience & those of others that NC sadly, is the only tool we have which can keep us from further pain. And NC time used to read, learn & accept can actually make NC a very productive healthy time.

Leave the hungry angry bears busy with someone else who's still yet to put their stick down!

[Newkate]

Hi Newkate, sounds like you are feeling particularly bad today, it's okay because we all have days like that. Days where we really need a hug. 

This sounds like a pretty big problem, definitely one you cannot just happily ignore. It might possibly be a problem that will never go away. Can you live with that? Is that what you really want? Some people can deal with this type of on/off relationship, some people can't.

Thank you for the hug, learning. It was much needed.   

It is a big problem-him leaving out of nowhere. I've gotten to the point where I don't think I can live with his problem anymore. What I meant by saying this, though, was that he is now trying to say our relationship was full of problems... . and that we kept going back to address the problem in the same way. There were not any problems except his issue... . and my issue of taking him back over and over when he did this.

In fact, ignore the words that were said when the BPD is triggered; BPD is a shame-based disorder, and when the shame comes, so does the projection, and you will be the scum of the earth, you have to be, or else their head will explode.  And it has absolutely nothing to do with you.

It's like deep down I know this, but I keep getting sucked back in. I keep doubting my thoughts. I keep trying to find truth in what he says. I keep feeling guilty. I hate it. I'm trying so hard.

Not that it would represent "the truth," but did he explain what he meant by you "watched him bleed out?"

No, he never explains. He never ever can say anything concrete that I've done or failed to do. He uses metaphors. "I watched him bleed out. He needs a climbing partner, not a safety net. We've ridden the wheels off. You're a cause not a solution." There is nothing he can ever say to back things up. He just uses more flowery words to twist my mind into a deeper and deeper confusion.

Me, too.  Everything was wonderful, until it wasn't.  The identified problem made no sense, I was given no chance to address it before he ended things, and a few months later it evaporated in a few minutes' talk when we finally did get together again to talk.  I know how wrenching it is to lose so much for no identifiable reason that arose between you.  Of course, the reason does exist -- it is just internal to his emotional makeup.

God, this is so exactly how I feel. Everything. It would evaporate in a few minutes because there was so much confusion, I would take any answer. Things would be all good, all light again... . when really, deep down I felt unanswered, still confused.


Thank you all so much for replying. I am doing a little better today. I have therapy in a few hours; so hopefully it will only go up from here... .

[MaybeSo]

PwBPD ARE triggered by intimacy. We trigger their worst symptoms. This is not a lie, it's how the disorder works.

His attribution is distorted (of course). He thinks he is triggered because his dysregulation is always externalized as having to do with someone else; especially someone he is the closest to.

If he could get outside the illness, he would see that he has an attachment disorder that flares up when he feels he needs someone.

But, he can't get outside the illness.

So tag, you are it... . you are externalized as the problem.

He is not lying. He's just disordered.

I'm sorry.

[Ironmanrises]

PwBPD ARE triggered by intimacy. We trigger their worst symptoms. This is not a lie, it's how the disorder works.

His attribution is distorted (of course). He thinks he is triggered because his dysregulation is always externalized as having to do with someone else; especially someone he is the closest to.

If he could get outside the illness, he would see that he has an attachment disorder that flares up when he feels he needs someone.

But, he can't get outside the illness.

So tag, you are it... . you are externalized as the problem.

He is not lying. He's just disordered.

I'm sorry.

That.

That is BPD in its simplest form.

[blurry]

I totally relate to everything " seeming" absolutely perfect and then all of a sudden, its over. Never saw anything like it in my entire life. Im actually jealous of anyone who speaks of their pwBPD dysregulating over the course of months and raging off and on during that time, I feel like if I had that "luxury", maybe it would of bought me time to correct my own reactions/responses to her behavior. That's what I keep thinking was that we had no conflict during our relationship except for the ten minutes or an hour prior to her ending it. Absolutely heartbreaking. I love my wife so much and we can't be together

[Ironmanrises]

Blurry,

I experienced the dysregulating... .

It was not pleasant.

i experienced the raging... .

It was not pleasant.

At all.

Even if you were able to correct your reactions/responses to her... .

It would have only delayed the inevitable outcome... .

I knew of her disorder when i let her back in... .

I tried modifying my reactions/responses to her throughout the second round... .

I tried to be more understanding... .

End result... .

She left.

Again.

You are not alone.

I am so sorry you are hurting.

[blurry]

That makes sense Ironman, plus deep down, I know I'm not disciplined enough to ever sustain whatever is is id have to sustain, to keep the inevitable from happening, hell, I think I read somewhere that even therapists will give up on certain BPD patients. Will see what happens, praying she heeded my warning and gets in therapy, ill keep hoping. Can't stand the thought of her suffering, and I think she is at some level.

Just occured to me maybe I need to get to church and start praying, somethings gotta be wrong with me, maybe I need religion in my life.