is procrastination somehow connected to living with pwBPD?

[livednlearned]

I have a big goal I've been working toward for the past 4 years, and now that the really awful custody stuff is over, I have no excuses for working toward my goal. But I'm really struggling to get things done. Including things I like and want to do.

My goal involves writing, and sometimes it will take me 4 hours to write a paragraph. Sometimes it will take me 3 hours to sit down to start writing, and then another two hours to focus on what I came there to do.

I don't really understand it, but it seems like there is a negative tape in my head about achieving my goal, and I'm wondering if others here make a connection between procrastination and having BPD people in their life, particularly parents, but spouses or siblings too.

[myself]

Maybe it has to do with that feeling of no matter how much you put into it it isn't going to turn out well? Which keeps your focus off track, your expectations muddied, and your energy to get up and get the job done lacking.

[Forward2free]

I was consistently berated and my efforts were always met with negative feedback.

For me, I think procrastination becoame a defensive position - if I didn't try/have time/didn't finish/didn't start, I couldn't be shot down.

Where I felt confident, in my career, I succeeded, but I lost the desire for so many things I was passionate about.

Unfortunately, I think you might be right and even though I am out of the relationship with BPD/Nxh, I still procrasinate about so much.

Can you redefine what you want out of this goal? Perhaps the desire has been muddled and by redefining your vision through to completion, you might be able to get back on track and will yourself to succeed.

Dream board?

[DeRetour]

livednlearned,

Hm. This is an interesting thought. I totally know how frustrating this is - to struggle to get yourself to write. You know, just thinking about my own BPD relationship, I can say that she really required a lot of my headspace. Even when she wasn't with me, she had me well trained to wait for her texts. And all that in-between time was just filled with anxiety. Ughhh. So glad I don't have to deal with that anymore.

So yes, I think having a BPD partner really takes a lot of focus away from your own interests. Creative pursuits sort of take a backseat. That's been my experience.

-deretour

[DeRetour]

livednlearned,

I meant to ask you: How long have you had this negative tape you mention? Was this something you've had since living with pwBPD?

-deretour

[whirlpoollife]

Does it take you that long to write your posts here?  I find it so surprising that it takes you that long to think of what to say.

If I could  write in detail the way you and other senior members do  I would write a lot more.

You have been consistent of your posts through and out of a bad r/s that it doesn't seem like you procrastinate (I feel it is book material)

When I was living with stb NPD h I wrote (with pencil and paper) endlessly on his behaviors.  When he left I felt a relief not to. Writing then was my security .    I need to still document a lot on what he does and I find that very hard to sit down and do.

On other things, I do what has to be done everyday. But on things I want to do, I procrastinate.  When I do them, I feel guilty for doing something for me or full of anxiety when I venture out for fun. Prior to H I wasn't like this.

(40 min to type this)

[livednlearned]

livednlearned,

I meant to ask you: How long have you had this negative tape you mention? Was this something you've had since living with pwBPD?

-deretour

The negative tape goes back to childhood, altho I'm still figuring it all out. My dad, who has NPD traits, was the first in his family to go to college. He skipped two grades so was 15 when he started university, and he continued on to get an MBA, and is now very well off. He's either NPD or the "all good" child with strong narcissistic traits, and he's by far the most financially successful in his family. I was accelerated as a kid, too, but he never acknowledged it. My brother barely finished high school and my dad bought him a house. But me? I've always been the good student and all I get is radio silence. He has never offered to pay for any of my education, but he did for my BPD brother.  :'(

Like a lot of people with PD traits, I get conflicting messages -- he clearly values education and is impressed with his own achievements, but it's almost like he resents me for getting a phd. Everyone I know encourages me to finish my phd (the goal I'm working on), except for him.

I'm also dyslexic, and wasn't assessed for it until after graduating from high school. Like a lot of dyslexics, I struggle with basic stuff, and that makes me feel stupid. My impostor syndrome is fierce.

@DeRetour -- N/BPDx used to tell me I was selfish because school took up so much of my time, and when I said I would quit because I didn't want to ruin our marriage, he would get angry and say that I was spoiled.   So he rented space in my head no matter what I did about school. And then when we divorced, the custody battle took a lot of effort and money. I almost dropped out, but people really pulled for me, and now I'm half way done and really want to finish. But finishing is beginning to seem impossible, mostly for psychological reasons.

@kormilda -- what I want out of this goal? I don't know anymore. Maybe deep down I want to upstage my dad. Or get recognition from him. But I also love doing research, so maybe it's a combination. I want it for myself, and can't finish it because of the dad tape in my head. And I want it for him, but can't finish because of the dad tape in my head.  

[livednlearned]

Does it take you that long to write your posts here?  I find it so surprising that it takes you that long to think of what to say.

If I could  write in detail the way you and other senior members do  I would write a lot more.

You have been consistent of your posts through and out of a bad r/s that it doesn't seem like you procrastinate (I feel it is book material)

When I was living with stb NPD h I wrote (with pencil and paper) endlessly on his behaviors.  When he left I felt a relief not to. Writing then was my security .    I need to still document a lot on what he does and I find that very hard to sit down and do.

On other things, I do what has to be done everyday. But on things I want to do, I procrastinate.  When I do them, I feel guilty for doing something for me or full of anxiety when I venture out for fun. Prior to H I wasn't like this.

(40 min to type this)

I type fast! And people here aren't judgmental like they are in academia, so I don't feel paralyzed about making mistakes. I can be vulnerable here, and that's therapeutic. I'm actually procrastinating right now by typing this 

What you say about feeling guilty for doing something for you -- I think a lot of us here feel that way. When you feel guilty or anxious, what do you do to help work through it?

[Rose Tiger]

I don't think a lot of us got much encouragement growing up.  I'm different with my kiddo, I sing high praises over her accomplishments.  She took her first driver training lesson and I had a candy bar for her when she got back, gave her a high five and said, you did it!  One down, three to go!  I never got anything like that.  I feel like when we reward and praise our kids, it will become intrinsic or so I hope.  I do things out of fear of homelessness.  I am working on the house because messiness is so draining and depressing.  It is hard to start a project, maybe because I don't reward myself enough? 

[seeking balance]

Great insight thus far in the thread

I think it was in The Road Less Traveled that I read on this subject... .

Self-Worth - people with self worth tend not to procrastinate and tend to have discipline - because they know they are worth it not to prove worth to someone else. 

Procrastination can reinforce our tapes that "we don't matter". 

How do we change it?  Awareness, changing the self-talk tapes, being kind to ourselves when we do it... .radical acceptance

[DesertChild]

I have a big goal I've been working toward for the past 4 years, and now that the really awful custody stuff is over, I have no excuses for working toward my goal. But I'm really struggling to get things done. Including things I like and want to do.

My goal involves writing, and sometimes it will take me 4 hours to write a paragraph. Sometimes it will take me 3 hours to sit down to start writing, and then another two hours to focus on what I came there to do.

I don't really understand it, but it seems like there is a negative tape in my head about achieving my goal, and I'm wondering if others here make a connection between procrastination and having BPD people in their life, particularly parents, but spouses or siblings too.

Concentration problems are often linked with depression. I know because it happened to me recently too.

I had a uBPDmom who told me I wasn't good enough for anything I did, I conquered a lot of it. (I'm getting published soon~~) The acting classes also paid off. (I got some of my confidence back and am starting to move forward again).

If you did accomplish something, then she would find something new to berate you on.

My concentration level has increased somewhat after that. The depression and anxiety still haven't disappeared though.

I put myself in an environment where I knew I could get immediate positive feedback. (though I'm not saying this will work for you). Also sought therapy.

I definitely qualify for being prone for depression. I lost jobs repeatedly because of it. I couldn't concentrate, got bored, started self-doubting, undervalued my own work, etc. My writing, which is the core of how I survived also plummeted. I couldn't write much. Creativity, which is also a core also plummeted uncomfortably.

You might want to explore that possibility if it was recent... .how about other activities? The things you hate, do you neglect even more?

If not that, you may have to overcome it with force. This usually means getting an Alpha to read your stuff that's not from your core group of family and friends, find other writers to help you out through your crises, and learn how a real writer procrastinates. (Such as mindless research.) Or you can try the crazy thing called Nanowrimo coming up, which will put a deadline on you and you can test yourself for yourself along with a lot of newbie writers. Sometimes it's not internalization, it's the need to prove yourself worthy of the challenge and that you are allowed to suck in the first place. (Something my uBPD mom, unfortunately, will never get.)

[Clearmind]

Lived, for me it was not linked to my pwBPD it was a form of cognitive distortion (faulty thinking) I carried all on my own - definitely from childhood.

I had perfectionist expectations of myself because although I was a good kid I was punished often with put downs, physical abuse and emotional invalidation. As an adult I thought why start if I know for certain I'll messed it up - I didn't take risks because I had a deep disdain for expressing vulnerabilities ----> delayed gratification of pleasure and a form of self sabotage!

Thanks for this topic. I had to really think about where my proceasination sat back then. I jumped out of a plane about 5 years ago whih lead to a world wide solo tour of the world. I have not procrastinated since - I think I proved my worth in those two events, that I can do anything I put my mind to and you only fail if you don't try.

[livednlearned]

I read something interesting about the Karpman Drama Triangle that I think connects to my procrastination.

There are many variations (of being on the Karpman Triangle), and each case needs to be individually considered. We not only act out these triangular distortions in our everyday relations with others, but we also play out the victim triangle internally. We move around the triangle as rapidly inside our own minds as we do out in the world. We ensnare ourselves on the triangle with dishonest and dysfunctional internal dialogue. For example, we may come down hard on ourselves for not completing a project. Perhaps we lambaste ourselves as being lazy, inadequate or defective (P), causing us to spiral into feelings of anger and self-worthlessness. Inwardly, we cower to this persecutory voice, fearing it may be right (V). Finally when we can’t bear it anymore, we take ourselves off the hook by justifying, minimizing or indulging in some form of escape. This is how we rescue ourselves. This could go on for minutes, hours or days.

I'm thinking about doing some cognitive-based therapy to help me with the internal dialog. Does anyone have experience with this?

[Clearmind]

Not sure if its Karpman related! However yes CBT would certainly help - CBT untwists our thinking.

If you search for thought monitoring work sheets and CBT you will get a heap to get you started.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Sometimes for me it can be as simple as an underlying fear of change.  I've become comfortable being uncomfortable.  The only way through fear is to start walking right into it head on.

[whirlpoollife]

What you say about feeling guilty for doing something for you -- I think a lot of us here feel that way. When you feel guilty or anxious, what do you do to help work through it?

I consider myself weak but strong willed.

The only way through fear is to start walking right into it head on.

That's it. I just take my anxiety with me when I go.

[SeekerofTruth]

I have very significant issues, somewhat crippling, pertaining to procrastionation.  And loss of discipline, determination, and follow-thru.  Something is distrubing me.  I am a person who takes things to heart.  Its tough to let go, even let go of the dysfunction we've become accostomed to.

I definitely think it is a residual collateral damage to self ripple effect of having our hearts and minds wounded.  We have to learn to just let go of that stuff and move on in reality real time.

Otherwise It's self-defeating and we get stuck, or worse regress. ugly stuff. Was our relationship with pwBPD, self-defeating?  I say yes on two accounts. 1.  Yes. Many of us stayed in a relationship far too long, took on far too much damage, ignored the signs, our internal cues, for what ever reason and as a result/consequence we lost some our functionality we had going on prior to the onset of pwBPD relationship going haywire.  Sure i had issues/weaknesses related to procrastination and time management prior to relationship I WAS WORKING on, sometimes with success, but they got worse inside relationship and I really got thrown from my A game.  I use to desire and crave for my A-game.  Now its become more of a "meh... ." game.  So the motivation is a little cloudy and not crisp in terms of its inner connection to me.

2.  I'm not sure how many others also had to deal with massive passive-aggressiveness wBPD.  But, in my r/s after so much denial, projection, andundermining in so many little and big ways (imagine the cummulative stress, displace that, and imagine more cummulative stress adding on), it became a very simple observation for a wise and neutral person to comment upon the r/s saying "you guys are working against each other".  I also believe it is natural to see your family and SO as an extension of your Self-Identity.  In the context of being with pwBPD who is undermining or passive-aggressive, or acting out negatively, in a sense, it is also acting against the r/s, AND by extension working against me.  The inverse would be working with, working together on, playing nice, getting it on, being a team, etc. (heck i haven't even got to getting out of my own way)


My take is our r/s with pwBPD became self defeating, just as how we became involved with pwBPD in the first place.  The "why" we became involved in the first place, well, was unconsciousness.  I say that because I believe most of us are members of the "If I had known then what I know now" club.

And i do think there is definitely a triangle going on in either a karpmanian way or some other way... .and victim becomes the operative schema/ shackle / layer of resistance.

So for example, I think when we make some some connection with our (a) previously hidden stuff and (b) our r/s wpwBPD (c) and our own developmental thinking/feeling/sensing levels within our FOO AT THE TIME when we also experienced some core wounds... .and often "CHRONIC core wounds" that persisted... .we are reintegrating some broken piece inside of us from area (c), and then putting it up in comparison to (b) our r/s with pwBPD (a) we make some very SIMPLE yet powerful insight and connection; wow - my dad was a chronic invalidator.  OKAY- so then 'the one' comes along, and she's adoring, supportive, encouraging and "great"--- our connection is special--- but then, BPD comes in; and holy begeemoos what do i know, this person becomes my tormentor, i am to blame for being her tormentee... .and i have a case of chronic re-enactment and chronic invalidation all over again.  Heck, i thought i was marrying someone different than my Dad.  So rather than getting out sooner, just as in family we stay in (for those of us who stayed), we stayed in the r/s too long in the sense of EXPOSURE to traumatic stuff, however subtle or gross, not knowing we were... .and became nonconsciously attached.  ATTACHED. We're used to the dysfunction.  And we kind of take it and keep it going all on our own that gets manifested in self-defeating ways.

How else can i explain precisely the same procrastination dynamic as it pertains to avoidance / anxiety / fear of something that is a very important goal of mine?  There's a connection there.  I had procrastinatin b4, mind u, a type of rise to the occassion back to wall kind of performer under pressure attitude, or in my more creative outlets things simply flowed.  But that was my previous self.  Previous to pwBPD r/s.  And then i became a late arriver.  (perfectionsim, fear of success, fear of failure, okay sure maybe)  But also , depression comes into play as a demotivator to something we really do care about, but yet don't step up to address, for whatever reason.

Not sure how the mirroring takes place or the psychologial-physical mirroring takes place, but i think we internalized/introjected / got infected with another bout of dysfunction in terms of working against ourself (maybe even passive-aggressive) and took on some stuff as a result of our r/s that's lingering there in need of release.

Maybe that's where the befriending with oneself is key. Or having that body double there in terms of our hidden observer or an actual helpful person who is reallly there for us in a good way that helps us over the hurdle.  Yes, we mirrored so much.  We may have a sense of learned helplessness that's in play as a result of negative mirroring where it requires our hand being held (i'm the crack the whip kind of guy-to get tough, but that voice has gone into hiding) and really nurtured, loved, encouraged, and inspired to take action, especially when it comes to harder stuff that might not even be fun but its part of life.

Basically, i am not able to do for myself, that which i previously was able to do.  Hence, a regression.

At some point it is about letting go of that stuff.  And get something going in real time reality.

Modelling is so key for me now.  Where maybe i successfully modelled and mirrorred good things for my pwBPD, i also became a grostegue, distorted, and shattered unloving mirror.  So maybe, i have some loss of confidence about being able to see myself do it , which in the past was often a sufficient catylyst to take action, constructive action in terms of objectives and goal attainment.  Since that part is shaky, for whatever reason, i find a benifit from modelling from someone whose more advanced in my goal area than am i.  Thats the inspiration to address the procrastination... .to engage, to keep my head down, and grind. otherwise i'm too loosey goosey or complacent. 

I think we have to go back to where we where before the trauma bond and  befriend that part of our self and make peace and get reconnected bonded and build from there.  Taking action from that place and making a pact about not getting hooked into some kind of triangulation regressive dysfunction again because now we are aware and able to beware and take protective action.  But those inner healing links between our unfinished business parts ourselves need to make up and be made whole.  REcover those previous strenghts, transfer some that good stuff and apply to the tasks at hand on a day in and day out basis in terms of what we say to ourselves in the morning upon rising and what we say to ourselves before lying down are important moments to implement some loving self-acceptance, and encouraging self-talk.  Then it's a bit easier to approach that which i avoid.  And self-talk that says i am deserving and really is congruent with self-worth, self-belief, self-esteem really needs to be polished up a bit.

The wounded victim inside of me, definitely definitely needs to be sat down and talked to from a wonderful healthy connected internal family, becauise i think the procrastionation part is acting out, and no one cares, or notices, because to do some might be uncomforable. You know? I dunno.  I'm procrastinating posting here this evening.  Soo, just had to get it out.

[livednlearned]

Wow, SoT. Your post really resonated with me.

I think I'm getting a lot of positive strokes for being the hero mom, the ultimate rescuer, and the procrastination stuff is the tip of the iceberg of my avoidance/anxiety/fear dynamic. It's what is really going on right now. I'm so much better because I'm out of the r/s, and I've learned a lot, but I'm also kinda stuck on autopilot.

Something is disturbing me too. Just as N/BPDx was the symptom of my own codependent FOO dysfunction, I think the procrastination is too. I've "fixed" my N/BPDx symptom (as much as that's even possible) and now there is this other layer and it's manifesting as procrastination. But like you wrote, it's like a layer of resistance.

I just don't know how to work through it. I don't know where else to turn.

[P.F.Change]

For me, procrastination went hand in hand with perfectionism.

I expected myself to be perfect at everything because I would get in trouble if I wasn't. So I put a lot of pressure on myself in school (especially long-term assignments), which would lead to me feeling overwhelmed and unsure of myself. Did I choose the "right" topic? Was I making the "best" observations? Etc. It could create a block that made me feel stuck.

Procrastinating also served as an excuse for not being perfect. If I got an A- on a paper instead of an A+, I could blame the fact that I had thrown it together in the wee hours of the night or had points off for its being turned in late. If it wasn't perfect, it could be because I was "lazy" and didn't plan ahead instead of because I wasn't "good enough." I could say to myself, "Hey, not bad for something I didn't even work that hard on. I'm sure I could have gotten a perfect score if I put more time into it."

And at the same time, that right there could also make me feel shame. Perfect people don't procrastinate. They plan perfectly. They manage their time perfectly. They get perfect scores on perfect work that they executed effortlessly without feeling the slightest stress. So even when I needed to tell myself that I could be capable of perfect performance , I also made sure I didn't give myself the chance to prove that wrong. And I felt shame for being "not good enough" at that.

But the truth is, there's no such thing as perfect. I have learned that I am fine just the way I am, and it's ok to make mistakes.  Contrary to the messages I got from BPDm, I don't have to perform perfectly in order to be worth loving, and being mediocre at something really wouldn't kill me. It takes a lot of the pressure off to know I am already good enough. My self-worth is no longer performance-based. Of course I am not in school anymore, and I do not really miss that environment. But in other areas of my life I have been able to let go.

Do you struggle with perfectionism along with your procrastination?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[livednlearned]

Do you struggle with perfectionism along with your procrastination?

YES. Mine is mixed up with dyslexia. I wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult, so I spent most of K-12 feeling shame that I couldn't do simple things that other kids could do. I so desperately tried to be perfect, but I don't have a brain that organizes information the way non-dyslexic brains do. It took me forever to learn how to tell time, and I'm still terrible at it. I struggle with calendars, forms, directions, can't alphabetize, and forget trying to put anything in chronological order.

Plus like you, growing up in a home where I had to be perfect. And you know the drill -- the rules always changed, so I could never hit the target even when I tried because it was always moving.

And talk about picking the wrong thing to do with this kind of issue. Going for a phd? It's like signing up to relive the pressure and pain from childhood with no end in sight   

[Phoenix.Rising]

Mine is mixed up with dyslexia. I wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult, so I spent most of K-12 feeling shame that I couldn't do simple things that other kids could do. I so desperately tried to be perfect, but I don't have a brain that organizes information the way non-dyslexic brains do. It took me forever to learn how to tell time, and I'm still terrible at it. I struggle with calendars, forms, directions, can't alphabetize, and forget trying to put anything in chronological order.

That sounds frustrating, Livedandlearned.

I, too, struggle with perfectionism, but it is not as bad as it used to be.  A phrase I remember that helps me from time to time is "I was created perfectly imperfect".   

[livednlearned]

Mine is mixed up with dyslexia. I wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult, so I spent most of K-12 feeling shame that I couldn't do simple things that other kids could do. I so desperately tried to be perfect, but I don't have a brain that organizes information the way non-dyslexic brains do. It took me forever to learn how to tell time, and I'm still terrible at it. I struggle with calendars, forms, directions, can't alphabetize, and forget trying to put anything in chronological order.

That sounds frustrating, Livedandlearned.

I, too, struggle with perfectionism, but it is not as bad as it used to be.  A phrase I remember that helps me from time to time is "I was created perfectly imperfect".   

Just telling people I'm dyslexic has helped. I can now tell people, You might want to check those numbers. In my workplace, people help me with forms, and I help them with things they struggle with.

It's so rooted in FOO, though. I was awesome at making mistakes  And my dad and brother were intolerant of that. I'm going to try CBT. I think that might help me with the negative tape, both around dyslexia and setting goals.

[Phoenix.Rising]

It's so rooted in FOO, though. And my dad and brother were intolerant of that.

My dad was intolerant of mistakes as well.  He has lightened up a bit in his older age, but he used to be extremely rigid.  I felt like I couldn't be 'perfect' enough, so I went through a period of many years where I basically said 'screw it' and just went a bit wild.  It is good to be looking for the middle ground, although I'm still trying to find it.