Why is it that I'm always wrong and I'm always expected to apologise?

[Mr Mom...]

Hi Everyone,

Was wondering... .

Why is it that whenever there is a problem in our relationship, it's always my fault and my udBPD g/f always insists that I apologise to her, and she's not talking or saying anything or moving anywhere or acknowledging anything until I do?

Geez... .I feel like I'm just spinning around in circles here... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[momtara]

that's what BPD is!

occasionally you may be able to force some sort of admission, if the facts are clear, but often they will just give an alternative version that makes your head spin. 

hang in there.

[nevaeh]

We had a huge disagreement a few months ago over an issue regarding a situation with one of my daughter's sports coaches.  The coach and I had a big misunderstanding regarding my daughter's status on the team.  Bottom line was that the assumption the coach made was incorrect as he had not read my email carefully.  I had made an incorrect assumption and although I had read his email and the statements in it, I assumed she was on the team and he said she was not on the team.  By the time the coach and I realized there had even been a misunderstanding it was too late to get my daughter on the team.  I was furious at the coach.  When I explained the situation to my H, instead of listening to me and being even minimally supportive of my side of the story, he instead screamed at me for a good 1-2 hours, calling me stupid and incapable of being able to show enough common sense to understand even the simplest of emails.  We didn't speak for at least 4-5 days after that argument (I finally left the house as I was sick of being told I was stupid and that it was my fault). 

H seemingly calmed down a few days later and after we went to bed he started to apologize by saying... ."I'm sorry I flew off the handle about the issue the other day, BUT I just can't believe that you were so stupid to not understand what the coach was saying in his email".  That triggered ME and I told him that while I appreciated his attempt at apologizing, he really needed to learn how to actually apologize, and that an apology doesn't involve saying you're sorry and then proceeding to repeat all of the reasons why the other person was wrong again.  Another argument ensued and I received another 1-2 weeks of silence.  That's what happens when I try to stick up for myself.  At least I enjoyed those several days of silence.   

Anyway, in the process of making our pwBPD "feel" better when they are dysregulated, at least for me it seems like I just take on more of the blame so that it is removed from his shoulders so that HE can feel better and not be so dysregulated.  I'm left feeling like crap because I just took responsibility for his behavior.  However, I did that to myself and I try really hard to not do that anymore.  I have become resentful over the years that I have tried to make him feel better at my own expense.  IT hasn't gotten me anywhere and my H surely hasn't improved his behavior, so why do it?

I agree 100% that it just feels like you're constantly spinning in circles and it's not a good way to live. 

[briefcase]

Well, they really need to learn a lot of things . . . apologizing being only one them.  Here's the problem, they aren't going to learn anything they don't want to learn.  That leaves us with us. 

We make a choice everytime they demand an apology of us, call us stupid, or otherwise engage in abusive behaviors.  We can just sit there and take it, or scramble around trying to make them feel better.  Or we can get in touch with our own boundaries and leave the room or the house until things calm down.  We teach people how they can treat us.  It's a choice we make. 

I only apologize when I feel its justified now - not when my wife thinks I should.  Name calling ("stupid," or worse) is an automatic conversation ender for me.  I disengage and walk away, every time.  I don't get called names anymore.   

[downandin]

Hi Everyone,

Was wondering... .

Why is it that whenever there is a problem in our relationship, it's always my fault and my udBPD g/f always insists that I apologise to her, and she's not talking or saying anything or moving anywhere or acknowledging anything until I do?

Geez... .I feel like I'm just spinning around in circles here... .

I don't know if you've read my recent posts, but my wife hit me yesterday with a note saying she wants to separate.  While I lay on the couch last night, between nightmares, and cold chills, I kept thinking to myself:  I wish I could just make a list of the things I know I've done wrong in our marriage and then present it to her and ask her to do the same.  The only problem is that she would have nothing to list, because, in her eyes, she never does anything wrong.  I know I've made mistakes, and I feel incredible guilt for those mistakes; she does not even know she's made mistakes.  If somehow, on some subconscious level she does know, she certainly cannot allow herself to admit any.

[nevaeh]

We make a choice everytime they demand an apology of us, call us stupid, or otherwise engage in abusive behaviors.  We can just sit there and take it, or scramble around trying to make them feel better.  Or we can get in touch with our own boundaries and leave the room or the house until things calm down.  We teach people how they can treat us.  It's a choice we make. 

I only apologize when I feel its justified now - not when my wife thinks I should.  Name calling ("stupid," or worse) is an automatic conversation ender for me.  I disengage and walk away, every time.  I don't get called names anymore.   

I would agree with your last statement especially.  When things start getting out of hand I try really hard to disengage and not add to the drama.  I walk a fine line when it comes to anything involving H's inappropriate treatment of kids but generally find it is much better if I just walk away.  I rarely apologize anymore either.  If you are trying to stay with a pwBPD I think that is really the only way to survive.

[Mr Mom...]

Thanks for your viewpoints, I do appreciate it. It's good to know that someone understands what it's like.

I just feel so incredibly frustrated about this... .I know I could have handled some of these situations better than I did. I know I've made mistakes. I'm not perfect.

She listed 3 things that she wants me to apologise for... .1 of them happened 6 months ago and yes, maybe I could have handled it better (validated her feelings first, talked it over several times beforehand... .) but I didn't do anything 'wrong', I just could have done it better. But so could she also... .

Item #2 on the list is insane! (no pun intended) we were due to go on an evening boat cruise 2 weeks ago with a club that she is a member of. She told me it's 'no shoes'. So I dressed in shorts (clean & pressed) and a polo shirt (also clean & pressed) and some suede sandals that I could easily remove once on the boat. When I get on the boat, everyone is dressed up more than me, (long pants & shirt etc., and they all had on shoes... .) and she had a fit at me, shouted at me under her breath "why are you dressed so casual" to which I replied "you told me it was no shoes - what does it matter? it's no big deal, we're on a boat"   ... .so she walked off and ignored me for the first 15 minutes, leaving me in a crowd of people I don't know (incidentally, the club ex-president was there dressed in shorts and an old T-shirt) When she came back over to me, she berated me some more and wouldn't let me speak, just gave me continuous verbal abuse, so I said 'if that's the way you're going to treat me, I'm just going to get off the boat and go home'. She said "OK", and so I did. Now she says I treated her very badly and she wants an apology for it... .What?

Item #3 on the list says "the way I behaved in front of her friends when they were visiting". I'm at a loss for this one, I really don't know what she's talking about. I could take a guess, but that's all it would be - a guess. Her friends came to visit and we all had a great week. I felt like they were my good friends by the time they left to go home. We all had a great week sightseeing and going out to dinner etc... .

What do I have to do here?

Apologise for something I don't think I should have to, just to keep the peace (which means I will always have to do this) or we go for weeks or longer not speaking... .the usual torture or worse - the relationship ends (again). She's extremely stubborn and I just want to enjoy our relationship... .

Uggghhhhhhh... .frustrating.

[nevaeh]

Wow... .trying to put myself in your shoes if it were my husband.  I don't think my H would demand apologies for these kinds of things but if he did, given the current dynamic in our marriage, I would have to say that the things you listed would probably not rise to the level of me actually apologizing.

However, I might say something like... ."I'm sorry if I embarrassed you at the boat party for being underdressed.  I had dressed like you told me to and was a little embarrassed myself when I got there and realized that I was so underdressed.  I'm also sorry that it hurt your feelings that I left, but at that point our lines of communication were so messed up that I was afraid if I stayed we would have gotten in a bigger fight and would have ended up embarrassing each other even more.  Can we just move past this since it has already happened and there is nothing we can do to change it at this point?"  I don't think I would apologize for "doing" what you did; instead you are justifying what you did while at the same time recognizing that even though it may have hurt her feelings (and you acknowledge that), you still felt that it was in everyone's best interest to take that course of action at that time.

It may be that when her friends were visiting that she felt like they liked you a little too much or perhaps you got "more" attention than her, making her feel a bit insecure.  Not sure, but again, I probably wouldn't go so far as to apologize for anything you did "wrong" but instead tell her that you're sorry that she feels like you treated her badly but that you really don't understand what it was that you did wrong and perhaps she could try and explain it to you. 

I have tried really hard in the past several years to shift my apologizing from something that H thinks I did  "wrong" or a way in which I "wronged" him, to apologizing for the fact that my behavior made him feel a particular way while explaining why I did what I did and trying to illustrate that I didn't have ill-intentions in my actions. 

Not sure if that helps you at all but it has helped me in terms of trying to keep my sanity and not allow him to make me feel like I am the reason for every problem in the world, or at least in our marriage.

Good luck!

[briefcase]

These examples say a lot about her anxieties and insecurities.  

Remember, for her, feelings = facts.  She was feeling very ill at ease on that board and blamed you for her feelings.  The actual facts didn't really matter, or even register with her.  The best thing to do in these situations is to validate her feelings ("you sound upset.", hold onto your reality (you weren't the only one a little under dressed, and most likely no one really cared about your shorts and sandals anyway), and respect your own boundaries if she gets abusive (I suppose you could walk to the other side of the boat   ).

 

[briefcase]

However, I might say something like... ."I'm sorry if I embarrassed you at the boat party for being underdressed.  I had dressed like you told me to and was a little embarrassed myself when I got there and realized that I was so underdressed.  I'm also sorry that it hurt your feelings that I left, but at that point our lines of communication were so messed up that I was afraid if I stayed we would have gotten in a bigger fight and would have ended up embarrassing each other even more.  Can we just move past this since it has already happened and there is nothing we can do to change it at this point?"  I don't think I would apologize for "doing" what you did; instead you are justifying what you did while at the same time recognizing that even though it may have hurt her feelings (and you acknowledge that), you still felt that it was in everyone's best interest to take that course of action at that time.

. . . .

I have tried really hard in the past several years to shift my apologizing from something that H thinks I did  "wrong" or a way in which I "wronged" him, to apologizing for the fact that my behavior made him feel a particular way while explaining why I did what I did and trying to illustrate that I didn't have ill-intentions in my actions.  

It works even better to leave out the apology altogether and just validate!  You seemed embarrassed on the boat.    Apologizing for the way they feel isn't really an apology at all (which they usually recognize) and it encourages them to believe that you really are in control over their emotions.  

[waverider]

Problem is in most "differences" everyone contributes in part. But BPD does not allow for these shared responsibilities, it is all or nothing. They are entirely responsible or not at all. Accepting full responsibility is too harsh on them so they have to validate their total innocence by having you accept full responsibility.

So your options are

1 Roll over take it all on and given them the easy way out. This will encourage to keep doing it and build resentment in you. Walking on eggshells. It creates big problems for you

2 Try to convince them of their part using logic. But you cant debate illogical thinking with logic, things are likely to escalate. Resentment plus anger. It is now your problem again as you are still inputing into it

3. State your own version of the truth, without trying to convince anyone else of it, only exercising your right to your own truth. If that goes down like a lead balloon then you disengage and get on with your own stuff. The poo may still hit the fan but you dont feel resentment over it, it is not your problem and you have not made it worse. It was a loose/loose situation anyway, you have simply salvaged your own rights.

[Mr Mom...]

Thanks for all your comments and advise. I really do appreciate it.

I've been trying not to come to terms with the fact that this relationship is going nowhere but downhill, fast. I just don't think that any progress can be made unless she can at least see that she has some level of responsibility, which she obviously can't. I think I just have to come to terms with the fact that this relationship is going nowhere but downhill, fast.

Although every bone in my body wants to hold on to this relationship, it's plainly pointless and frustrating. I've tried so much for so long and got nowhere. I've poured 3+ years of emotions and understanding and trying, and I feel like I'm just running around in circles and trying to fill an endless black-hole... .I'm tired and it hurts... .

Underneath all her issues there's a great person and I love her and miss her. But I think, for now, it's time to let go. If she decides to talk to someone professional/accept responsibility for her behavior etc then maybe we can pick up again, but for now it's time for me to take a step back and look after myself.

[Grey Kitty]

Setting and holding to boundaries in this sort of situation... .i.e. removing yourself from the abuse when it starts, and not apologizing when you did nothing you should apologize for isn't going to make your r/s worse.

If your r/s is currently going nowhere, that is most likely because you are voluntarily taking a bunch of crap, and not getting much positive.

Once you get this sort of boundary working, you may see huge improvements in your r/s. They are pretty much guaranteed to improve things for you. I know my wife eventually came to like the new version better than the old one, and even thanked me for the sort of hard stuff I did when I started enforcing my boundaries.

What I'm trying to say here is that when you start taking care of yourself, you ARE working for your relationship in the right way. So do keep on focusing on taking good care of yourself. It will serve you well in any outcome.