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Caretaking - What is it all about?
Margalis Fjelstad, PhD
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Brené Brown, PhD
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
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Author Topic: Christianity and BPD and Marriage...  (Read 4925 times)
AliveButBeatup
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« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2013, 07:51:30 PM »

To ClearMind

When I first posted, I was moving in the direction of detachment. NC. Preparing for a single life. Etc.  I met with a pastor and he gave me pause. However, with more reading on here, it seems the inevitable is detachment.

ABB
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« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2013, 09:07:02 PM »

God speaks through your gut ... .listen to it. Let go or get dragged.
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AliveButBeatup
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« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2013, 09:18:57 PM »

God speaks through your gut ... .listen to it. Let go or get dragged.

Simple words, but powerful. I suspect I am over thinking this. My gut tells me it is time to detach.
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« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2013, 01:43:42 AM »

Time to roll up the sleeves and move on with detachment.  She ended up with a few of my personal possessions, but I was to get the items which had sentimental attachment.

This has been such a test of my spirituality. I got involved with this woman partly because she was a Christian --- or at least she was able to recite scripture and talk about the Bible. I was drawn into this has my spirituality had weakened through the years.  I married her because if you are a Christian, that is the right thing.

Now I feel very spiritually beat up wondering how God fits into me being married such a short time and moving on with a divorce.

All of the posts and responses here have been great. They give you clarity when you think there seems to be no clarity.  It is very much appreciated.

ABB
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« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2013, 04:59:04 AM »

It certainly IS a test in that aspect! I questioned my Faith very deeply for a long time.


Mine was a very 'Godly' woman when I met her. Or so I thought. I am not trying to judge but she could not walk the walk in the end. Sad but on the other hand her 'pretending' for so long to be something she is not must have been a hard thing to do. I even told her that once and she looked so deeply pained when I did tell her. I was not trying to be mean but it was merely an acknowledgement.

She stopped all church attendance when she began cheating on me. Now she is beginning to attend again and taking the kids some. I think she is trying to acclimate the new bf into church. Maybe trying to legitimize it, I dont know

It helps me when I think of what a friend told me once, 'there are good people who do bad things (make honest mistakes, we are all sinners) and then there are bad people pretending to be good'. I do not want to think of a BPD as being bad but they do do bad things, (hurt people) even if they dont mean to. But mine has meant to hurt me. Probably so I would hate/leave her :'(

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« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2013, 06:48:04 AM »

It helps me when I think of what a friend told me once, 'there are good people who do bad things (make honest mistakes, we are all sinners) and then there are bad people pretending to be good'. I do not want to think of a BPD as being bad but they do do bad things, (hurt people) even if they dont mean to. But mine has meant to hurt me. Probably so I would hate/leave her :'(

Remember Bad things happen to good people.  Case in point I have a hs friend dx with Stage 4 Pancreatic cancer.  She's a good person who didn't deserve to have something bad happen to her.  And there was nothing she could have done to not get Cancer.  She deals  with what God has put in her life with grace and humility.  I find her to be inspirational.  A pwBPD is a person that has their own healing to do.  The BPD may or may not be able to over come it just like a person may or may not go in to remission of cancer.  I believe the difference is GOD does not want anyone to be abused.  He wants love.  I find it helpful to separate the issue into categories.  Bad things happen.  People do bad actions.  Abuse is bad.  We can live with bad things happen such as cancer. We can live with other people do bad things to a point.  We can't live with abuse. 

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ENG89

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« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2022, 11:39:50 PM »

This is my first post. I have been encouraged by what I have read here, in that I am not alone.

I have been married to my pwBPD wife, although it is undiagnosed, for 32 years. It has been 32 years of torture with the continued effort to be better and to do better. It is apparent that it does not matter what I do, there is always something I should have done.
If I do not respond properly then I am not listening to her, no one listens to her. If she does not understand something then I did not give her all the words. Any and all communication problems are my fault. I then get the lecture of you do not admit that you are wrong when you are wrong. The ensuing rage that lasts anywhere from 2 hours to 4 days are complete with derogatory remarks and put downs that is "how anyone would react" to being mistreated, as she is. I have left 6 times over the past 7 years. She has never apologized for her behavior or actions once in 32 years. Her actions are justified by how she has been treated.

We separated for 10 days in 2021 and reconciled with a list of things to work on that included prayer and bible study together. That did not last and my list was quickly weaponized in that I never did any of them. There was no mention of her items to work on, as all her actions are my fault!

This week, after I had put the toothpaste back in the holder in the improper location, a two day rage ensued where I am irresponsible and a number of other expletives.  I forgot to turn off the Christmas lights last night, which I found out at 3 AM, when she leaned up to my ear and screamed at me while I was sleeping. My response was Really?, I am sorry, I will turn them off now. All she heard was "really" and she proceeded to hit me and call me all kinds of awful things. I had not even been awake for 30 seconds. She threw my luggage in the family room and said that I have to leave. I told her that will never happen. I left 6 times and anyone leaving now is going to be you. She vowed to make me leave.

I am now in the process preparing for the pending legal separation that will likely happen. It has been 32 years and this will never be any different. I have met with a lawyer and I am getting a valuation on our home. I created a separate bank account last month to prepare for a divide. She has yelled at me that she wants a divorce on multiple occasions.

Why have I endured this for 32 years? We had a daughter the first year we were married and I committed to making sure our daughter did not have baggage from this woman. It was a full time job to explain and interpret the avalanche of negativity that my wife would hurl at our daughter. I made sure that our daughter understood that she was a kid and had to learn how to live her life and her mother's intentions were good, but she did not have the ability to communicate it properly. Our daughter is now amazing with a family and a career. We have an excellent relationship.

My pwBPD wife has alienated her family and her parents have passed away and her one sibling, she has not spoken to in years. My wife has no friends and no one to talk to, but me. She has alienated and driven out every other person in her life. She is now full court press on driving me out. She is only satisfied when she is alone. We have been to therapy with 5 separate counselors over the years. She has never worked on anything the therapists have told her. The last psychologist we saw 5 years ago told me that she suspected my wife had BPD. She went on to tell me that unless my wife admits she has a problem and works on it, our marriage will last as long as I can take it!

I have reached the end. My thought now is that I do not want to be in a vulnerable situation where I am incapacitated and would have to rely on my wife to care for me. I had hernia surgery 4 years ago and I was such a burden and I never appreciated all that she did for me when I could not care for myself. I can only imagine if I had a serious issue! I need to detach while I am still able to manage myself.

I thought I was being a good Christian in remaining married out of obligation to my commitment to God. I am seeing this relationship in a different light and understanding that honoring the wife of my youth is not what it means, when she is abusive in so many ways.
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2022, 12:54:51 AM »

I am now in the process preparing for the pending legal separation that will likely happen. It has been 32 years and this will never be any different. I have met with a lawyer and I am getting a valuation on our home. I created a separate bank account last month to prepare for a divide. She has yelled at me that she wants a divorce on multiple occasions...

I thought I was being a good Christian in remaining married out of obligation to my commitment to God.

There is an obvious reason to divorce, namely infidelity.  However there are other reasons to separate and/or divorce.  A few others that come to mind are willful nonsupport and abuse.  Back in Bible times there were divorces.  Even Jesus and the Apostles spoke on the matter.  It was a reality of life then, just as it is now.

One observation I'd like to make.  Separation when dealing with BPD and similar acting-out personality disorders is too often a half-measure, you're still connected.  That's why so many here end up Divorced.  I too separated but it was only a few months later when I filed for divorce.  There was no other option left.  My lawyer said that when there is conflict, separation doesn't work long term.

Remember Bad things happen to good people.  She's a good person who didn't deserve to have something bad happen to her.  And there was nothing she could have done to not get Cancer.  She deals with what God has put in her life with grace and humility.  Bad things happen.  People do bad actions.  Abuse is bad... We can live with other people do bad things to a point.  We can't live with abuse.

That post from 2013... Concerning that sentence I've italicized... "what God has put in her life" is not my perspective.  Better written would be "what God has allowed in her life".  Our life consists of both joy and pain.  Sure, it is fine to give credit to God for the good things.

A similar expression I think to be avoided is "the child suffered and died because God wanted the child to be an angel in heaven".  Again, it is meant well but not phrased well.

God doesn't cause bad things.  As James 1:13 says, "For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."  Rather, the cause of our pain is sometimes our human imperfection or the bad things other people do, not God.
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ENG89

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« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2022, 10:29:56 PM »

Forever Dad,
Thanks for your response. Our brief separation, almost 2 years ago, was reconciled with a plan and commitment that my pwBPD used to point out what I was supposed to do, totally ignoring her commitments.

Last week she did not feel heard or responded to properly. A rage commenced that culminated in physical abuse for an hour and a half, that I continually walked away from and ultimately left for the night.  No separation is going to change this and her behavior continues to get worse. I am meeting with my attorney tomorrow to fully understand the next steps in the divorce process.

I should have read and joined this group a long time ago! Instead, I felt that I was fulfilling my obligation to God. I am now unsure of my safety in regard to rages and have real concern if I am ever in a vulnerable health situation. That is no way to live.

I am still learning this group, which is why I posted in a site that is 9 years old. Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2022, 11:50:21 PM »

BPDFamily goes back long before 2013.  I lurked here in 2005 before registering in 2006.  Members joined as far back as 2002, back in the days it was under the care of Randi Kreger, author of Stop Walking on Eggshells.

Be alert that the greatest danger of conflict is when the relationship fails and the couple separates.  So understand that separating can trigger even more poor behaviors, the other spouse feels compelled to lash out and, if not quite punish, then to make you appear worse than her.

It's a "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" scenario.  It's a period where you metaphorically "batten down the hatches to weather the looming storm".

If your children are grown, then the person you need to protect is... yourself.  Tell your lawyer everything, well, as time allows.  Don't hide any of stbEx's poor behaviors.  That would only be sabotaging yourself.  This is not a time to be 'nice', lay it all out on the table.  Have you read William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 11:55:39 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

Pook075
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« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2022, 12:16:14 PM »

My BPD wife and I have been separated for four months now after 24 years of marriage.  No big fights, no blow outs, nothing...she just got super depressed, shut me out, and eventually left.  Then the anger and hatred came a few days later- I never loved her, never cared about her family, etc.  That first week literally broke me.

On day six, I woke up after maybe 2 hours of sleep and had to get out of the house.  I ended up driving up into the Blue Ridge mountains because I felt a calling, God was telling me to go up the mountain and I wouldn't come down with all the pain in my heart.  It was a three-hour drive and I cried hysterically the entire way, I was so completely broken that I didn't know if I'd come off that mountain alive.  Note, I wasn't suicidal...but I was being called.

Up on that mountain, God redeemed me and completely changed my heart.  I thought I was saved my entire life and I don't have words to express what I went through that night, but the Lord stripped away all my pain, depression, anger, etc. and left me with a clear heart and a clear mind.  At that moment, I loved my wife more than ever before and all I felt for her was compassion...just overwhelming compassion.

In the days that followed, I studied my Bible, prayed almost non-stop, and asked the Lord for guidance.  He told me to be patient, and that's what I'm still doing 4 months later.  Some days are really tough, but most of the time I'm able to stay upbeat and focus on what's best for my life.  My wife and I now communicate a little bit, mainly short emails, and I pray every day for her and our marriage.  

I don't know if we'll ever reconcile but for now, God is still telling me to wait and walk by faith.  I can't name how many people God has brought into my life to witness to these last 4 months, and he's completely changed my heart and how I view the world.  I rarely get stressed anymore and I take most days in stride...but maybe once a week it's a really tough day.  I've also had temptation thrown my way several times and I managed to remain faithful, because that's what God has called me to do.

Again, I don't know how this story ends.  My wife still doesn't have an official diagnosis and doesn't want one (our family doc said it is clearly high-functioning BPD).  But what I do know is that if we keep walking God's path for our lives, things will turn out exactly as the Lord intends.  

I guess my advice here is that if you're a believer, don't let your spouse's dysfunction dictate how you live your life.  This is not your fault and you can't change the past.  Instead, focus on today and tomorrow, ask God to guide you, and eventually you'll realize that you're okay with or without your spouse.  If we do reconcile, it will be because I choose her and she chooses me, and we both choose to build a healthy Christian relationship together.  

As badly as I want this to work, that may not be God's ultimate plan and I am slowly learning to accept that.  He'll either fix our marriage or he won't, but I know that he has something planned for my life that's going to be spectacular.  I hope that helps!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2022, 12:23:00 PM by Pook075 » Logged
ENG89

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« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2023, 11:28:40 AM »

I guess my advice here is that if you're a believer, don't let your spouse's dysfunction dictate how you live your life.  This is not your fault and you can't change the past.  Instead, focus on today and tomorrow, ask God to guide you, and eventually you'll realize that you're okay with or without your spouse.  If we do reconcile, it will be because I choose her and she chooses me, and we both choose to build a healthy Christian relationship together.  

As badly as I want this to work, that may not be God's ultimate plan and I am slowly learning to accept that.  He'll either fix our marriage or he won't, but I know that he has something planned for my life that's going to be spectacular.  I hope that helps!
[/quote]

Very compelling response from God!

Praying for you and understanding God's plan!

I remain at a crossroad. We have gotten along ok for one week now without a rage or blow up. Only the criticisms and put downs remain. I am praying about discussing future plans of how to separate before the next explosion, while we are both in a non-fighting state of mind. I intend to use the discussion for setting boundaries and what will happen if boundaries are disregarded. I am prepared to take the actions. I am hopeful that her responses will be positive; however, I am not optimistic. Something must change, as it has been 32 years of horrible and not what marriage is supposed to be. I am simply going to ask if she chooses me or not. I am fine with either response, but I need to know.

I am praying for clarity and encouragement to do what I am supposed to do.
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ENG89

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« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2023, 12:50:14 PM »

BPDFamily goes back long before 2013.  I lurked here in 2005 before registering in 2006.  Members joined as far back as 2002, back in the days it was under the care of Randi Kreger, author of Stop Walking on Eggshells.

Be alert that the greatest danger of conflict is when the relationship fails and the couple separates.  So understand that separating can trigger even more poor behaviors, the other spouse feels compelled to lash out and, if not quite punish, then to make you appear worse than her.

It's a "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" scenario.  It's a period where you metaphorically "batten down the hatches to weather the looming storm".
If your children are grown, then the person you need to protect is... yourself.  Tell your lawyer everything, well, as time allows.  Don't hide any of stbEx's poor behaviors.  That would only be sabotaging yourself.  This is not a time to be 'nice', lay it all out on the table.  Have you read William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

Our daughter is grown and aware of the whole BPD issue. I have well documented incidents of the rages on video. My lawyer is aware.
I have not read that, thanks for the tip. 
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Pook075
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« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2023, 02:50:50 PM »

Very compelling response from God!

Praying for you and understanding God's plan!

I remain at a crossroad. We have gotten along ok for one week now without a rage or blow up. Only the criticisms and put downs remain. I am praying about discussing future plans of how to separate before the next explosion, while we are both in a non-fighting state of mind. I intend to use the discussion for setting boundaries and what will happen if boundaries are disregarded. I am prepared to take the actions. I am hopeful that her responses will be positive; however, I am not optimistic. Something must change, as it has been 32 years of horrible and not what marriage is supposed to be. I am simply going to ask if she chooses me or not. I am fine with either response, but I need to know.

I am praying for clarity and encouragement to do what I am supposed to do.

Just keep leaning on your faith- it unfortunately gets worse before it gets better.  My 24 years of marriage wasn't horrible by any means, but it certainly wasn't a Christian marriage either.  And I never had any idea why we couldn't come together as one until now- my wife always had one foot out the door due to BPD.

As far as the boundaries go, that's a really tough conversation that can (and likely will) go sideways very easily.  I wish you luck and hope that you're able to stick to your guns!  Just try to be as cool, calm, and collected as possible so you'll be able to get your points across in a positive way.
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PearlsBefore
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« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2023, 10:10:49 PM »

"BPDFamily goes back long before 2013.  I lurked here in 2005 before registering in 2006.  Members joined as far back as 2002, back in the days it was under the care of Randi Kreger, author of Stop Walking on Eggshells."

I remember that, I lurked circa 2006 and Randi Kreger was still actively posting and engaging users here - not sure whether she was running it or not. At that time I'd only read 2-3 books on BPD, hers, the "Hate you don't leave me" one and...one I'm forgetting at the moment. Honestly all three were kinda disappointments, "gateway books" as I call them now in hindsight - they'll walk you down the garden path but are too vague and not solution-oriented enough. I'm not looking for how to "understand the struggles and internal dialogues of your pwBPD" I'm looking to fix them, save me, save the kids, etc. Dr. Christine Lawson still the best book I've read on BPD, though sadly she was the last of an era.

ButAlive, if you're still active on the site, I'll send you a PM with my best advice and experiences having been through nearly-identical. Hang in there.
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Outdorenthusiast
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« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2023, 10:40:16 PM »

My two cents and why I felt justified to sleep in the upstairs guest bedroom when making healthy boundaries for myself…

Proverbs 21:9 — 'Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.
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« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2023, 09:24:54 PM »

I understand you're Christian and wish to honor your vows, but who was it that married you, and are you legally married?  Which god was it under who's authority you were married? 
Did a minister, reverend, priest say "by the power invested in me by the State of Utah/California/Texas/etc. i now pronounce you man and wife"?  What god granted him the power there?  Did you sign a marriage license to beg you god to give you permission to marry? Was that license signed by YHVH or some clerk in Utah/California/Texas/etc.?
If you're legally married, your legal person is married under the laws of the State.  That's the god that married your legal fiction.  It's fraud.  It's never lawful.  It's not a true marriage under the Creator.  Besides, look at Deuteronomy 24:1.  She's not fulfilling the contract.  It's void.  Send her out.
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« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2023, 10:11:19 PM »

Being a Christian, the belief is you must honor your vows and be married forever. My wife has physically abused me. Hitting, slapping and scratching.  I have filed for divorce, but still pause with moving forward with the divorce. I met with a pastor and as you might expect, his view is to keep the marriage intact through prayer and asking for God to heal the person with BPD.

Since sometimes discussing religious concepts can get some members sensitized, I did not mention much before.  But here goes:

My story... my son's an adult now but before my son was a preschooler we went to the pediatrician.  The very experienced pediatrician suggested my then-spouse have some counseling sessions.  Her response?  "I have the Bible!"  She's my ex-spouse so obviously that didn't work.

Nearly 50 years ago I read the entire Bible.  Every book and chapter.  It was a challenge then, now I have access to both audio recordings as well as a link to 66 short videos on each book of the Bible.  (In case anyone would like to have a stress-free way to get an overview without all the tedium of such a thick volume.)

Nowhere did I find the phrase "mental health disorder" or similar.  Yes, there are principles expressed (some noted above) that can guide us, but the decisions are left to us.

So for that person to state "keep the marriage intact through prayer and asking for God to heal the person" might be a good starting point but if that attempt fails, then what?  Both the Old Testament (for the Hebrews/Jews) and the New Testament (for Christians) co-exist in harmony mentioning divorce.  It wasn't advocated, in fact it was discouraged, but was recognized as sometimes appropriate, even necessary.
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« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2023, 10:59:16 PM »

Nowhere did I find the phrase "mental health disorder" or similar.  Yes, there are principles expressed (some noted above) that can guide us, but the decisions are left to us.

I believe that Hosea Chapter 1 describes something 'similar' to a borderline-like relationship.

Also, the Bible was mistranslated from 1611 until 2003, almost 400 years where it said "God hates divorce" in Malachi 2:16, when it should have said "man who hates his wife and divorces"  source:  https://lifesavingdivorce.com/malachi/, go to the root of that site for a lot more scripture that supports divorce when abuse is occuring.
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« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2023, 12:41:53 AM »

I read the entire Bible.  Every book and chapter.  It was a challenge then, now I have access to both audio recordings as well as a link to 66 short videos on each book of the Bible.  (In case anyone would like to have a stress-free way to get an overview without all the tedium of such a thick volume.)

Nowhere did I find the phrase "mental health disorder" or similar.  Yes, there are principles expressed (some noted above) that can guide us, but the decisions are left to us.


I'm just saying, last year I snuck this anonymously into a certain family member's stocking:
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