My List

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I made a list this morning... .My conversation with my T yesterday sparked something.  He asked me "what is the pay off? Every addiction has a pay off so what is it?"  He talked about the bad outweighing the good - and that is why we need to keep ourselves in check - like an alcoholic who needs meetings to stay sober - they need constant reminders WHY they got to where they are... .to hear stories and tell their story... .otherwise we get amnesia and forget.  This board is my daily meeting... .I read and read and am reminded that I didn't fail... .I did put my all into this... .Here is my list for what its worth:

The Good

I really enjoyed her company when she would give it

She made me laugh

She made me cry good tears

She made me feel loved

She made me feel trusted

She made me feel special

She made me feel needed

(this period would hast about 3-4 days in a row) then silence would come and then... .

The Bad

Unable to talk to her if something bothered me

She angered easily

Cut me out easily and coldly

Spoke harsh mean words to me

Called me names

Persued others behind my back

Changed her mind often about me

Changed her mind and would not tell me

Silent treatment - often

Made me feel inadiquate

Made me feel I didn't do enough

Made me feel bad for loving her

Acted as if I were her enemy

Broke prior engagements 4 out of 5 times

Withheld sex and intimacy

Hardly ever asked to see me in person

Was VERY jealous

Made me feel replaceable

Made me feel used

Confused me

Took away my freedom to speak my heart

I walked on eggshells

The pace of relationship was all in her control

I had no say in the twists and turns

Never felt like a 2 way street


(this could last weeks... .at the worst it was 6 weeks of what I came to call a "Cold War" where we were "friends" - sort of... .)

[bauers220]

I made a list this morning... .My conversation with my T yesterday sparked something.  He asked me "what is the pay off? Every addiction has a pay off so what is it?"  He talked about the bad outweighing the good - and that is why we need to keep ourselves in check - like an alcoholic who needs meetings to stay sober - they need constant reminders WHY they got to where they are... .to hear stories and tell their story... .otherwise we get amnesia and forget.  This board is my daily meeting... .I read and read and am reminded that I didn't fail... .I did put my all into this... .Here is my list for what its worth:

The Good

I really enjoyed her company when she would give it

She made me laugh

She made me cry good tears

She made me feel loved

She made me feel trusted

She made me feel special

She made me feel needed

(this period would hast about 3-4 days in a row) then silence would come and then... .

The Bad

Unable to talk to her if something bothered me

She angered easily

Cut me out easily and coldly

Spoke harsh mean words to me

Called me names

Persued others behind my back

Changed her mind often about me

Changed her mind and would not tell me

Silent treatment - often

Made me feel inadiquate

Made me feel I didn't do enough

Made me feel bad for loving her

Acted as if I were her enemy

Broke prior engagements 4 out of 5 times

Withheld sex and intimacy

Hardly ever asked to see me in person

Was VERY jealous

Made me feel replaceable

Made me feel used

Confused me

Took away my freedom to speak my heart

I walked on eggshells

The pace of relationship was all in her control

I had no say in the twists and turns

Never felt like a 2 way street


(this could last weeks... .at the worst it was 6 weeks of what I came to call a "Cold War" where we were "friends" - sort of... .)

[winston72]

Thank you, Bauers220!  Your perspectives on recovery and the need to "keep ourselves in check" are really helpful.  I was just having my morning coffee and thinking I need to spend some quiet time reflecting and some time on this site.  Your message and your list were a great moment of affirmation for me.  And you list is pretty similar to what mine would be... .just reminding me, for the zillionith time, how costly and painful the relationship was.  I marvel at how willing I was to absorb the suffering.  Indeed, I thought that getting hurt but continuing forward was the way to really earn love.  I am still vulnerable, even eager, to do this again.  That vulnerability, that "pull", is the booze I need to avoid.

Thanks, B!  See you at the next meeting!

[bauers220]

Thank you, Bauers220!  Your perspectives on recovery and the need to "keep ourselves in check" are really helpful.  I was just having my morning coffee and thinking I need to spend some quiet time reflecting and some time on this site.  Your message and your list were a great moment of affirmation for me.  And you list is pretty similar to what mine would be... .just reminding me, for the zillionith time, how costly and painful the relationship was.  I marvel at how willing I was to absorb the suffering.  Indeed, I thought that getting hurt but continuing forward was the way to really earn love.  I am still vulnerable, even eager, to do this again.  That vulnerability, that "pull", is the booze I need to avoid.

Thanks, B!  See you at the next meeting!

I'm glad I could help - I have saved this list - I feel I'm going to need it when contact happens.  I fear and long for it all at the same time so I understand the "pull".  She has even described it to me that way as well... .What took me so long to break free was my belief that we had this "spiritual" connection - it made me feel bound - and made me feel that the reasons things failed were things in me that needed fixing... .ugh... .so glad to see you here today... .keep coming back 

[winston72]

Hey Bauers220... .have you read this article?  My mind flashed on it when you mentioned the spiritual connnection.  I find this article to be very helpful... .

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

b]Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder [NEW][/b]

[bauers220]

Hey Bauers220... .have you read this article?  My mind flashed on it when you mentioned the spiritual connnection.  I find this article to be very helpful... .

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

b]Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder [NEW][/b]

Awesome winston72 - I have been reading everything I can on this subject - immersing myself especially when I have those "pings" in my chest.  It serves to slap me back into reality and to ask myself "what is the pay off if you were to talk to her today? 3 days of bliss followed by weeks of pain?"  Stability is my goal - and I know ANY break up, ANY growth inside of me... .is all going to be painful... .but I have to face it - now, later - it has to happen and the sooner the better.

They say it take a person an average of 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship before they are successful... .Now I know what that is all about.  They return so loving - and in my case there was no physical violence (though I wonder what living 1 on 1 with her would actually be like) ... .us both being women I did excuse so much of her behavior.  Originally I excused it by saying - she is confused, she's never loved a woman before, the sexuality issue is TOUGH (I know it was for me too), we have families, she doesn't want to hurt anyone, she's trying to be a good person... .I had a TON of them.  Then one day about 14 months ago a psychic told me about BPD.  I researched and was floored.  But when my ex returned, amnesia set in... .until December last year ANOTHER psychic said it AGAIN... .and I bought Stop Walking on Eggshells... .Again amnesia... .until this summer - I was so destroyed by one of the splits because the reunion we had held SO much promise - it felt like we were FINALLY communicating and sorting through things like adults - like I know HOW to do.  And then I was dropped on my head so violently I didn't get out of bed for 3 days... .I HAD to call a therapist... .or I may have ended up in a treatment facility - it was BAD.

[DragoN]

She made me feel needed

Examine that one more closely. The difference between need and want. They are very very different.

[fiddlestix]

Bauer... .it is uncanny how similar all of our BPD loved ones behave.  Your list is my list. More and more case studies solidify the predictability of BPD.   As in your list, my ex would want me in the morning... .then by evening she had changed her mind (at least toward the end).  Weird.   And when she was good to me I was in heaven.  The brief stints in "heaven" made the intolerable a bit easier.  My therapist says it is "intermittent positive re-enforcement" like one uses when training a dog.  Give the dog a treat every now and then and it will learn to obediently stick around.  I guess I was a dog for many years LOL. 

Fiddlestix

[nevaeh]

She made me feel needed

Examine that one more closely. The difference between need and want. They are very very different.

This comment made me remember a conversation uBPDh and I had about 3 years ago when he found out that I was thinking about leaving him.  He was upset, very upset.  I tried explaining to him where I was at, emotionally, etc.  He told me that me and our kids are the only thing in his life that makes him happy, that if we leave he will have nothing left.  I told him that was part of the problem... .that he needed to be able to be happy without us to be happy with us. It isn't healthy for him to only be happy because he is with someone or because others around him are happy.  He completely did not get it, and I realized there was no way I could explain it in a way that would make sense to him, because of his BPD. 

By leaving, I will take away the only things that H cares about in this world, or so he says.  We are also the only people that he treats like crap and he doesn't seem to understand how those things are directly in conflict with each other.  I have this horrible guilt about wanting to leave him and feel like I will be ruining his only chance for happiness; however, in the past several months I have really realized that I am putting his "happiness" before mine and the kids, despite the fact that my H is really incapable of being truly happy.  I honestly don't think he really has a clue what that means. 

Another part of that conversation had to do with need vs. want.  When I told H that I don't NEED him, he was visibly upset that I could say that to him.  I explained that I don't need him to lead my life, to be happy, to be a good mom, or to be a good employee at my job.  I also don't need him to feel like a good person or to feel loved.  I said, on the other hand, that I WANT him in my life if we could fix the issues in our marriage.  I told him at the time that it seemed to be the opposite for him... .he NEEDS me (and the kids) in his life, but often his attitude doesn't portray that he WANTS us to be there.  My H NEEDS to have a family to show in public that makes him appear the good guy with the normal life.  H NEEDS to feel like he is loved and that he is important to someone.  He NEEDS to feel like he is needed and that if not for him providing for us, we would be lost.  Marek, you are correct that although it seems like NEED and WANT are similar, they are very different! 

I also had started a list of the benefits of staying vs. leaving.  Many of my items were similar to yours.  I am hoping to leave soon, but am torn as to timing - tell him when he is being "good" and not raging every other hour... .or wait until he is being "bad" so that I have a reason/incident to point to as "the straw that broke the camel's back".  I'm leaning towards the latter, so right now I'm just feeling like I'm in a holding pattern.

I am going to revisit my list and edit it to reflect the current state of my marriage.  A good reminder for me as to why I should stay vs. why I should go.

Thanks... .

[DragoN]

Javamom, glad you found that examination helpful as I have.

I too am divorcing. There is not a "good" time, there is doing it once and for all. It doesn't change for the better, but gets worse over time.

By leaving, I will take away the only things that H cares about in this world, or so he says. We are also the only people that he treats like crap and he doesn't seem to understand how those things are directly in conflict with each other.  I have this horrible guilt about wanting to leave him and feel like I will be ruining his only chance for happiness; however, in the past several months I have really realized that I am putting his "happiness" before mine and the kids, despite the fact that my H is really incapable of being truly happy. I honestly don't think he really has a clue what that means.



Another part of that conversation had to do with need vs. want.  When I told H that I don't NEED him, he was visibly upset that I could say that to him. I explained that I don't need him to lead my life, to be happy, to be a good mom, or to be a good employee at my job.  I also don't need him to feel like a good person or to feel loved. I said, on the other hand, that I WANT him in my life if we could fix the issues in our marriage.  I told him at the time that it seemed to be the opposite for him... .he NEEDS me (and the kids) in his life, but often his attitude doesn't portray that he WANTS us to be there.  My H NEEDS to have a family to show in public that makes him appear the good guy with the normal life.  H NEEDS to feel like he is loved and that he is important to someone.  He NEEDS to feel like he is needed and that if not for him providing for us, we would be lost.  Marek, you are correct that although it seems like NEED and WANT are similar, they are very different! 

Yes, very much the same.

Need vs want. He can provide the Needs of the family and create the facade. But he Needs the facade.

Want, is the love, empathy, compassion, intimacy, trust , security. That which his behaviors destroy in the marriage.

The Good

I really enjoyed her company when she would give it

She made me laugh

She made me cry good tears

She made me feel loved

She made me feel trusted

She made me feel special

She made me feel needed

(this period would hast about 3-4 days in a row) then silence would come and then... .

The Bad

Unable to talk to her if something bothered me

She angered easily

Cut me out easily and coldly

Spoke harsh mean words to me

Called me names

Persued others behind my back

Changed her mind often about me

Changed her mind and would not tell me

Silent treatment - often

Made me feel inadiquate

Made me feel I didn't do enough

Made me feel bad for loving her

Acted as if I were her enemy

Broke prior engagements 4 out of 5 times

Withheld sex and intimacy

Hardly ever asked to see me in person

Was VERY jealous

Made me feel replaceable

Made me feel used

Confused me

Took away my freedom to speak my heart

I walked on eggshells

The pace of relationship was all in her control

I had no say in the twists and turns

Never felt like a 2 way street

There is little consistency with the Good. But a great deal of consistency with the Bad and far more of it. Falling into love, is a wonderful feeling, falling out of love with a pwBPD is excruciating. Leaving them is traumatic to your own psyche as they are still in your mind through emotional black mail, trauma/ betrayal bonding and pulling at your heart strings. I Hate You, Don't Leave Me.

All the promises in the world for counseling no longer matter, too little too late and I have nothing left to give to anymore.