No Contact making them want you even more?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Obviously NC is extremely important for us to heal and help us eventually fully detach from the pain of a BPD relationship however the actual act of NC, ignoring, blocking moving on etc - from what I have read anyway - makes them crave and want you back even more? Hence the reason you get bombarded with calls texts etc at some point down the line from as breakup?

The best way forward therefore would be to change numbers and block any emails or facebook.

[strikeforce]

Obviously NC is extremely important for us to heal and help us eventually fully detach from the pain of a BPD relationship however the actual act of NC, ignoring, blocking moving on etc - from what I have read anyway - makes them crave and want you back even more? Hence the reason you get bombarded with calls texts etc at some point down the line from as breakup?

The best way forward therefore would be to change numbers and block any emails or facebook.

[Ironmanrises]

The NC is for you to have that buffer space to begin to heal.

Think of it as a last ditch forcefield to protect you from further toxic missiles coming your way.

Not for the pwBPD to want you more.

They are going to crave you again... .Regardless.

NC is to give you the time to heal and resist that eventual contact(crave)... .

that will come again.

[Reg]

Hi strikeforce,

As Ironmanfalls said it.  Block them any way you can, change number, I did all that.

But also yes, the NC sometimes makes them want you more.  In the case of my former partner it is also not to have to face reality, as it always is with borderline behavior.  To ease the pain, the shame, the fears, the guilt.  She would love to be at least friends with me.  Just to find confirmation that it was not mostly her problem we broke up.  Because that looks bad to the world outside for her.

She always said that she was still friends with all of her exes.  When I confronted her with the reality, not knowing about borderline at that moment, it was as an explosive device detonating.  From 7 she still was friends with her "I'm going to divorce my husband since 5 years", and she had accidental contact with one other ex partner.  With the rest she didn't want any contact or they didn't want any contact.

Reg

[xPaintedBlackx]

I think that's ALL people, though. Human nature. We want more the things we can't/shouldn't have.

[Relentless]

I sent my ex an honest email 23 days ago. She left and cut me out July 20th... .I went no for 3-8 days at a time then 12 days... .Then her dad called the police... .Not sure if she asked him to or not. Anyways... .My email wasn't harassing... .But I was asked kindly (nice officer) to not contact her anymore. I often wonder if she will try to contact me one day... .I still hope she does... .But I'm much better and care less overall. Either way... .I willALWAYS wonder off and on what she thinks etc... .I doubt she cares... .I'm a horrible person to her based on false beliefs... .After a 13 year friendship and 7 months relationship... .I went from white knight to the darkest of dark.

[Ironmanrises]

I sent my ex an honest email 23 days ago. She left and cut me out July 20th... .I went no for 3-8 days at a time then 12 days... .Then her dad called the police... .Not sure if she asked him to or not. Anyways... .My email wasn't harassing... .But I was asked kindly (nice officer) to not contact her anymore. I often wonder if she will try to contact me one day... .I still hope she does... .But I'm much better and care less overall. Either way... .I willALWAYS wonder off and on what she thinks etc... .I doubt she cares... .I'm a horrible person to her based on false beliefs... .After a 13 year friendship and 7 months relationship... . I went from white knight to the darkest of dark.

In bold.

All of us here can relate.

I know it sucks.

Hurts beyond.

The horrible person she thinks you are is a projection of how she really feels about herself.

Her disorder does not allow her to admit to herself that... .

So projects that onto the person closest to her... .

Which was you.

You know within yourself you are not that horrible person.

You wouldnt be posting here on this forum... .

Trying to make sense of such an insidious disorder as BPD... .

If you were that horrible person your ex painted you out to be.

The pwBPD thinking is so disordered we make our ordered minds literally disordered trying to understand it... .

My mind would spiral out of control wondering what her thought processes were.


Trust me... .

You do not want her coming back to you.

She will hurt you even more viciously the next time around.

That is what mine did to me.

See how much damage i have to repair now because of that?

Hang in there Relentless

[DragoN]

   Think About It... .Break-up/Make-up Cycles; sixty-two percent (62%) of relationships do not end at the first breakup. Reconnecting with a person after a split is perfectly normal - many of us have done it. It becomes a problem when there are many breakup/makeup cycles and when we repeatedly return. ~ Skip

NC is for us. To heal. Be careful not to get sniffed out by a PD'd individual. Our pain is blood in the water.

[Ironmanrises]

   Think About It... .Break-up/Make-up Cycles; sixty-two percent (62%) of relationships do not end at the first breakup. Reconnecting with a person after a split is perfectly normal - many of us have done it. It becomes a problem when there are many breakup/makeup cycles and when we repeatedly return. ~ Skip

NC is for us. To heal. Be careful not to get sniffed out by a PD'd individual. Our pain is blood in the water.

In italics.

[thisyoungdad]

Interesting to read others comments here. NC from what I can tell has never brought her around "wanting me" or "missing me" that I have seen at least not in the ways I would expect to see it. I suppose instead of the more obvious ways she will do things like ask for my help or one night she had a bunch of police on her street for a DV situation and was scared and asked me to come over. I did go over, after all my daughter was there. Then I mentioned something about how I appreciated she reached out to someone in that situation if she was feeling that way and she got upset and swore never to do it again. But there are lots of small examples like that where I think she is hiding behind the daughter or something. Last night in fact she wanted to call and talk about bedtime with our daughter. It turned out it wasn't anything I had not heard before and nothing she couldn't have emailed me about but she stayed on the phone for 15+ minutes. That is how my ex does things. She can't come out to me and tell me she misses me, or anything like that which may or may not be a godsend. She just reaches out in other ways. Since there has been ZERO make up/break up cycles and only one in the 5 years we were together initiated by me, I don't think she is ever going to initiate that with me. Part of me feels sad about that. Part of me feels relief.

[Relentless]

Thanks IMF. I hope she comes back still... .But less for the reasons I initially wanted it... .And more now for validation. If she doesn't... .The 13 years I was a loyal and caring friend... .And the 7 months she "never knew she could love like she loved me" (and a ton more like that)... .All in one night of misunderstanding and subsequently a fight where I FINALLY snapped back (she had cursed me out many times and even hit me a couple times)... .But heaven forbid I lose it and push her to the couch out if fear of being hit and tell her to STFU... Yep I snapped after eggshell walking for 6 months and just taking it... .

Writing this makes me miss her less... .But after all I did... .To be painted black and not even heard... .I still want her to try to contact me... .Idk what I'd do... .Not anymore... .For the first month I'd have done anything she asked... .Anyways ya... .

I worry she won't ever try especially after how bad she painted me to who knows who and her dad calling the police. Rambling more... .Day 24 of NC (attempt, she's ignored me for over 2 months)... .It sure does suck.

[Ironmanrises]

Relentless,

Welcome.

I totally get that you want the validation from her in her just contacting you.

The danger is... .

Your ex will not contact you just to give you that validation... .

She will contact you with selfish motives... .

Meaning... .

She will contact you to try and get you to forgive her(to relieve her of her shame)... .

And at the same time to get back into your life... .

Her apologies... .

Her feelings for you... .

That she will say and exhibit... .

Will only be to get back within your walls... .

And last only until she gets triggered again.

Meanwhile... .

Your feelings for her are going to increase... .

And you will invest even more of your heart and love into her... .

And when the trigger into devaluation comes... .

And it will... .

The devaluation you will experience with the final discard will be far more hurtful... .

She will hurt you again like she did the first time.

That is the pattern if the disorder.

What I wrote is also what happened to me.

I know you miss her.

Your feelings are genuine.

Constant.

Hers are not.

They turn on... .

And off.

And on... .

And off.

Hell on earth... .

Even in idealization... .

Because devaluation follows right behind it.

This is why NC is vital.

You do not want to expose yourself... .

If you don't have to... .

At all to such a person.

They will only bring pain and tragedy to you.

Hang in there.

[DragoN]

Writing this makes me miss her less... .

That is where you need to focus your thoughts, as that was the reality of the r/s. Verbally abusing you is not ok. Pushing you around and being abusive? This is "love?" No. It's mental illness and the symptoms of a person that is incapable of love.

To be painted black and not even heard... .I still want her to try to contact me... .

Ask yourself, why do you wish to seek validation from a clearly disordered person who did not respect you when you were present in her life?

NC is painful. Time will lessen that pain if you focus on your self, your friends and healing.

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm at the point now where I find it fascinating how the pathology works.  Before and a little after we are born we cannot differentiate between ourselves and our mother; we are one.  At some point, lying there in our crib, our mother leaves the room, it becomes clear that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities, and there's no guarantee she's coming back.  Most of us go through that, abandonment trauma as it's called, and the subsequent depression, we make it through, and the experience becomes a vital part of the development of our 'self', and autonomous individual.  

A BPD never goes through that, the separation anxiety and abandonment trauma are just too great to face, so they get stuck, which then sets up a lifelong pattern of attaching, reattaching to their mother at its core, to feel whole again; they literally do not exist without that attachment.  And then the attachment gets too extreme, they start feeling engulfed, losing themselves, so the push starts, then the abandonment trauma, followed by the pull, over and over, continually waffling between 'one' with a surrogate mother and breaking free, freaking out, scrambling back to the attachment.  Could you imagine living like that?  And of course it's subconscious, and we're all aware of how it manifests as they get older; clearly nobody wins but the disorder.

And to me that explains the extinction burst of contact attempts after we go NC; we're the mother who left the room, and there's no guarantee we're coming back.  But then someone else walks in the room, the attachment repeats, and it's off to the races again.

[Ironmanrises]

I'm at the point now where I find it fascinating how the pathology works.  Before and a little after we are born we cannot differentiate between ourselves and our mother; we are one.  At some point, lying there in our crib, our mother leaves the room, it becomes clear that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities, and there's no guarantee she's coming back.  Most of us go through that, abandonment trauma as it's called, and the subsequent depression, we make it through, and the experience becomes a vital part of the development of our 'self', and autonomous individual.  

A BPD never goes through that, the separation anxiety and abandonment trauma are just too great to face, so they get stuck, which then sets up a lifelong pattern of attaching, reattaching to their mother at its core, to feel whole again; they literally do not exist without that attachment.  And then the attachment gets too extreme, they start feeling engulfed, losing themselves, so the push starts, then the abandonment trauma, followed by the pull, over and over, continually waffling between 'one' with a surrogate mother and breaking free, freaking out, scrambling back to the attachment. Could you imagine living like that?  And of course it's subconscious, and we're all aware of how it manifests as they get older; clearly nobody wins but the disorder.

And to me that explains the extinction burst of contact attempts after we go NC; we're the mother who left the room, and there's no guarantee we're coming back.  But then someone else walks in the room, the attachment repeats, and it's off to the races again.

Interesting post.

In bold.

That is hell on earth for us.

You ask can you imagine living like that?

We do live it.

During devaluation.

In that time period.

We experience it in the most brutal way what they feel.

It is hurled at the one closest to them.

Each one of us.

[fromheeltoheal]

That is hell on earth for us.

Yes, and it's hell on earth for them too, the difference being we can leave it, they can't, they don't know why they do what they do, not at the core, and they can't change it.  Everyone loses but the disorder.

[fiddlestix]

I have received three texts from my diagnosed BPD ex wife (divorce pending) in the last month.  I have not responded to them and she figured out that I wasn't going to.  In the third text she said that I did not have to text her back but that I should email her and she would text me back.  What's the difference if I text back a response or email? I would still be re-engaging her.

In the third text this month she also informed me that she just lost one of her jobs (again) and money will be tight.  I did send a brief return email to that news (maybe I shouldn't have?). I said I was sorry to hear that and I imagine it must be stressful. I was her "whipping boy" for many years, always responding to her needs and requests on demand.  Now that I am 98% NC it is hard for her to process the idea that I am gone.  We have a 13 year old child who lives with me so total NC is not possible, but almost.  The ex pulls up out in front of the house and our daughter goes out.  The ex does not come in at all.

She still wants to be friends, joke around... .even while she is bedding down with her next guy.  In a text last spring she said I am "her best friend, and I have always been there for her." She doesn't seem to grasp that I can never be her friend after the way she discarded me so many times.  It amazes me that this woman, with a gifted IQ level, and a marriage and family therapist herself!, is still so clueless!  I think she is very bothered that her old "whipping boy" is no longer available. I don't know if this means she is "attracted" to me.  But she is extremely competitive and hates to lose, whether it's a game of cards or a man who ignores her (she stalked many of her online losers who lost interest in her). 

And speaking of texts, facebook, dating sites, email... .  I wonder how much these modern social conveniences have contributed to the problem of BPD?  These tools offer many more ways for a BPD person to act out and indulge in their impulses.  And they make going No Contact much harder. Going No Contact 100 or more years ago would have been much easier. Perhaps this would be an interesting post to pursue on this board. 

Fiddlestix

[Ironmanrises]

I have received three texts from my diagnosed BPD ex wife (divorce pending) in the last month.  I have not responded to them and she figured out that I wasn't going to.  In the third text she said that I did not have to text her back but that I should email her and she would text me back.  What's the difference if I text back a response or email? I would still be re-engaging her.

In the third text this month she also informed me that she just lost one of her jobs (again) and money will be tight.  I did send a brief return email to that news (maybe I shouldn't have?). I said I was sorry to hear that and I imagine it must be stressful. I was her "whipping boy" for many years, always responding to her needs and requests on demand.  Now that I am 98% NC it is hard for her to process the idea that I am gone.  We have a 13 year old child who lives with me so total NC is not possible, but almost.  The ex pulls up out in front of the house and our daughter goes out.  The ex does not come in at all.

She still wants to be friends, joke around... .even while she is bedding down with her next guy.  In a text last spring she said I am "her best friend, and I have always been there for her." She doesn't seem to grasp that I can never be her friend after the way she discarded me so many times.  It amazes me that this woman, with a gifted IQ level, and a marriage and family therapist herself!, is still so clueless!  I think she is very bothered that her old "whipping boy" is no longer available. I don't know if this means she is "attracted" to me.  But she is extremely competitive and hates to lose, whether it's a game of cards or a man who ignores her (she stalked many of her online losers who lost interest in her). 

And speaking of texts, facebook, dating sites, email... .  I wonder how much these modern social conveniences have contributed to the problem of BPD?  These tools offer many more ways for a BPD person to act out and indulge in their impulses.  And they make going No Contact much harder. Going No Contact 100 or more years ago would have been much easier. Perhaps this would be an interesting post to pursue on this board. 

Fiddlestix

In bold.

They certainly have not helped matters... .

As someone with BPD can easily have a throng of enablers via social media all feeding their destructive behavior.

To protect myself... .

I have closed both my facebook and instagram permanently... .

Both of which i was a heavy user of... .

Because of the portals they presented to my exUBPDgf to stalk me... .

All in the while she is pretending to be this marvelous person to her circle of enabling family and sycophantic/pretend friends on that very social media... .

And their enabling of her... .

Props her up more and more... .

Literally causing a feedback loop of... .

"I will never need to get help... .All these people give me attention and love me... ."

They love the pretend her.

Not the real her.

All thanks to social media... .

Which made it such a breeze for her.

[bpdspell]

I'm a seventies baby and I remember a time when the biggest advances in technology was everyone having a color TV in their homes. What I don't like about technology is how easily accessible everyone expects you to be and sometimes I really consider giving up my cell phone all together.

With that being said I can't waste my time with what ifs and why our BPD's use technology to exacerbate their mental illness cause the bottom line is their mentally ill and technology didn't cause it. They may be able to hide behind a fake persona to survive through technology but at the end of the day they still have to live with themselves and technology will never replace that. Avoidance of who they are is a survival tactic but who they are always catches up with them.

As for them wanting us more when NC is in effect... .this may hold true... .it depends on who they are now engaging with in terms of supply. They need supply and if they're getting attention from somewhere else then you will not be on their radar. It's the harsh truth of being split black. I suspect that most of us want that superpower to be able to read their minds and hearts... .we want to know weather they miss us and weather they care and I do really get that desire... .

However. Whether they want us or not they're still mentally ill and lack the capacity to love us in the way we deserve to be loved.  This is where our focus must dwell; not on the what ifs but on the acceptance of their mental illness.

Everything else will keep us stuck in neutral.

Spell

[blurry]

 Relentless,  be careful with wanting that validation stuff. Basically if they call back to apologize, it can basically either be a lie or they can simply forget it the very next day and all empathy on their part is gone again. What good is anything that a liar says? Or what good is promise from someone who can wake up the next day and simply break it? We have to remember, these people with BPD are psychopaths, they have no empathy whatsoever, except for brief moments when it suits  them to fulfill a need of theirs.

Pretty scary when someone behaves a certain way that hurts others and have zero empathy for what they did. Even felons, really bad criminals get a second chance sometimes when they show remorse and empathy, our BPDs have neither except for fleeting moments. That's the part that's helping me detatch now more than anything is reminding myself that all promises are gone every time I go back, all remorse and empathy are gone as well.

If they cared, first thing they'd do would be get themselves in theray, and some do I guess, but seems like very few.

[Learning_curve74]

Before and a little after we are born we cannot differentiate between ourselves and our mother; we are one.  At some point, lying there in our crib, our mother leaves the room, it becomes clear that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities, and there's no guarantee she's coming back.  Most of us go through that, abandonment trauma as it's called, and the subsequent depression, we make it through, and the experience becomes a vital part of the development of our 'self', and autonomous individual.  

A BPD never goes through that, the separation anxiety and abandonment trauma are just too great to face, so they get stuck, which then sets up a lifelong pattern of attaching, reattaching to their mother at its core, to feel whole again; they literally do not exist without that attachment.  And then the attachment gets too extreme, they start feeling engulfed, losing themselves, so the push starts, then the abandonment trauma, followed by the pull, over and over, continually waffling between 'one' with a surrogate mother and breaking free, freaking out, scrambling back to the attachment. Could you imagine living like that?  And of course it's subconscious, and we're all aware of how it manifests as they get older; clearly nobody wins but the disorder.

Interesting post.

In bold.

That is hell on earth for us.

It's "hell on earth" for the pwBPD. I'm not sure why it needs to be hell for us unless we ourselves have attachment issues as well. The breakup of any serious relationship has the potential to feel devastating, but for most people that feeling will pass naturally with the passing of time.

I think it's charred who's been mentioning the theory about BPD relationships being felt like a primary parental relationship. We only have one mother and one father, and when we mistakenly feel like our pwBPD is "the ONE" and get attached to them like a parent, then we open ourselves up to being traumatized.

In reality, as an adult we do not have to choose to continue a relationship with an abusive parent or abusive partner. Whether or not they want us or will contact us is not a choice under our control. It's okay to want things that we can't control. I want it to be snow today but I won't necessarily have my wish granted!

Do we recognize that we may never get or keep these things that we want so badly? Is what we want in the moment always good for us in the long term? And is it even any good for us in the short term?

[Ironmanrises]

It's hell on earth for us... .

In terms of the cycle of idealization... .

Devaluation... .

Push/pull behavior... .

Gas lighting... .

Projections... .

Raging... .

That other side... .

Constant reversal of position... .

Silent treatment... .

In essence what we experience with a pwBPD.

[fromheeltoheal]

It's hell on earth for us... .

In terms of the cycle of idealization... .

Devaluation... .

Push/pull behavior... .

Gas lighting... .

Projections... .

Raging... .

That other side... .

Constant reversal of position... .

Silent treatment... .

In essence what we experience with a pwBPD.

Yes it is iron, and as we heal, it can become clear that they do all those things not because they are bad people, but because they are sick people doing the best they can to survive.  Unfortunately BPD being an attachment disorder, they are extremely good at getting their hooks in our psyche early, and even before that are very good at pegging us as susceptible.  The pain we feel they feel full time, and once we detach enough and get on with our lives, we can even develop compassion for them, real compassion, because they've given us a glimpse of what it's like for them, a hell on earth.

[Clearmind]

Obviously NC is extremely important for us to heal and help us eventually fully detach from the pain of a BPD relationship however the actual act of NC, ignoring, blocking moving on etc - from what I have read anyway - makes them crave and want you back even more? Hence the reason you get bombarded with calls texts etc at some point down the line from as breakup?

The best way forward therefore would be to change numbers and block any emails or facebook.

Best way forward is to protect yourself. Put your hand in the fire and you will get burnt. Its a choice just as the relationship with this person was a choice.

Borderlines lack object constancy and if out of sight we are out of mind. The contact from our ex's after the fact has more to do with relinquishing shame than wanting us back - we need to be mindful that our ex's don't think like we do and while its tempting to use rationale to explain behaviors it really does not work.

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - see #8

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

We often think that by holding back or depriving our “BPD” partner of “our love” – that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed how special we were and how incredible the relationship was.

Absence may makes the heart grow fonder when a relationship is healthy – but this is often not the case when the relationship is breaking down.

People with BPD traits often have object permanence issues – “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six.

Distancing can also trigger all kinds of abandonment and trust issues for the “BPD” partner (as described in #4).

Absence generally makes the heart grow colder.

The sooner we learn more about BPD and why they do the things they do the sooner we can begin to focus on why we got into the relationship to begin with. Acceptance!

[MammaMia]

Once you have been hurt to the point that the r/s is REALLY OVER, it is imperative to stand your ground.  No back and forth... .no maybe, maybe not... .no self torture.

NC means exactly that.  NO CONTACT.  It is not a game, it is a survival tool. Once the decision is made to go NC, it requires personal strength and commitment to your own wellbeing.  

It is all about empowering yourself, regardless of what your BPD ex does.

 

[fiddlestix]

Survival Tool!  Yes!  As I type I am in the lobby of a hotel.  We are here for my nephew's birthday party.  Someone, who should know better, invited my diagnosed bipolar/borderline ex wife.  I doubt she will show up, but I am at the ready to get the h*ll out of here.  My very well being depends on not seeing her for a long time.  The grief and pain she caused me by her unending lies, betrayals, affairs, verbal assaults, put-downs, and ultimate discard mandate that I do not see her.  How many war veterans want to revisit the battlefield?  Many people no not understand the unique torment of a breakup with a BPD person.  No Contact must abide!  Who cares if it hurts his/her feelings!  It's our time to be healthy, and firm boundaries are non-negotiable. 

Fiddlestix

[MammaMia]

You go Fiddlestix!

You know, I never looked at ending a BPD relationship as causing PTSD, but I think you may be on to something there... .

[fromheeltoheal]

You know, I never looked at ending a BPD relationship as causing PTSD, but I think you may be on to something there... .

I was diagnosed with PTSD after I ended the relationship, and have learned that the trauma came from what went on during it, not the ending of it, in fact a T gave me credit for having the strength to end it.  I didn't see it as strength at the time, I saw it as pain that had gotten so great it was time to bail, no other choice, but turns out it probably saved my life, or at least my sanity.

[DragoN]

6) Clinging to the words that were said

We often cling to the positive words and promises that were voiced and ignore or minimalize the negative actions.



“But she said she would love me forever”

Many wonderful and expressive things may have been said during the course of the relationship, but people suffering with BPD traits are dreamers, they can be fickle, and they over-express emotions like young children – often with little thought for long term implications.

You must let go of the words. It may break your heart to do so. But the fact is, the actions - all of them - are the truth.

I have come to the conclusion that when my PD spouse is speaking, she is lying.

Idealized, devalued , discarded. The discard doesn't happen until there is another to take your place. Then the devaluation ramps up. Not that the abuse all along wasn't devaluing to begin with either.

As for them wanting us more when NC is in effect... .this may hold true... .it depends on who they are now engaging with in terms of supply. They need supply and if they're getting attention from somewhere else then you will not be on their radar. It's the harsh truth of being split black.

If you were split black or not, it won't really matter, as long as they have someone else , a shiny new toy, you will eventually be split black.

[MammaMia]

Fromheel

Yes, what I actually meant was that the BPD relationship causes PTSD that continues after the relationship ends.  Like a soldier with PTSD during and after combat. 

Sorry if I did not state that clearly. 

[Ironmanrises]

The out of sight... .Out of mind... .I disagree with.

It goes hand in hand with the way they go about their business like everything is fine and dandy with them when they are devaluing us and discard that comes.

It is all an appearance.

You are always on their mind.

They will not admit to that.

It is a form of control.

And power.

Look at how many accounts on here of them coming back... .

Again and again.

Out of sight... .

Out of mind... .

Would not apply to that.

Truly out of sight, out of mind would be if most of the accounts on here were stating that they left and never came back.

I'm not saying that we are on their minds as a good thing... .

Obviously we are only viewed as something they need.

Once in a relationship with a pwBPD... .

They don't forget you.