Previous Exes?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Has anyone ever contacted one of their previous exes to see if their Borderline traits expressed itself in that relationship too? Or know history about previous relationships that would indicate that this is a pattern beyond just your one relationship?

[UmbrellaBoy]

Has anyone ever contacted one of their previous exes to see if their Borderline traits expressed itself in that relationship too? Or know history about previous relationships that would indicate that this is a pattern beyond just your one relationship?

[DragoN]

Yes, the patterns were well ingrained. The next will enjoy the same dysfunction.

[Take2]

I haven't done that personally, but I do remember when my ex-BPD-bf's two ex-girlfriends wound up getting in touch with one another... .  at the time, I had no idea he had any issues other than a really bad temper... .  and of course his version of their story was that one was crazy and the other just mad that he wasn't taking care of her financially anymore... .   no doubt - both of them and every single one of his other r/s in the past and future will go thru this... .   

[Mazda]

Yes, my ex-fiance is my best friend's ex.  They were dating 10 years ago and I was convinced by him and his charms that he had changed, he had really beat himself up about how he treated her and "regretted it" and "made himself suffer" for 8 years.  He couldn't lie to me about how he treated her because she's my best friend, but instead used this tactic and made himself the victim in their and every other relationship.  The patterns are deeply ingrained, the abuse is in every long lasting relationship and the recycling sucks in everyone.  I don't agree with having to "look within yourself" to see why you would fall for a BPD... .they initially make us so happy that someone would love us and appreciate us and feel as intensely about us as they do when we are painted white, what human being would not want to be felt about that way?  It is a vortex that would suck anyone in, and as for the recycling, my exBPD knew exactly when I was about to walk away and then would go back to being the most amazing person in the world and worshipping me again to completely manipulate me.  Now I am left with the remnants of my life after he abused me on Valentine's day and then called off our wedding, for me to have to cancel everything.  I have literally had the worst year of my life this past year because of him and I'm sorry that I ever met him.  Sorry to vent, but I need people who understand

[Octoberfest]

Yes, my ex-fiance is my best friend's ex.  They were dating 10 years ago and I was convinced by him and his charms that he had changed, he had really beat himself up about how he treated her and "regretted it" and "made himself suffer" for 8 years.  He couldn't lie to me about how he treated her because she's my best friend, but instead used this tactic and made himself the victim in their and every other relationship.  The patterns are deeply ingrained, the abuse is in every long lasting relationship and the recycleing sucks in everyone.  I don't agree with having to "look within yourself" to see why you would fall for a BPD... .they initially make us so happy that someone would love us and appreciate us and feel as intensely about us as they do when we are painted white, what human being would not want to be felt about that way?  It is a vortex that would suck anyone in, and as for the recycleing, my exBPD knew exactly when I was about to walk away and then would go back to being the most amazing person in the world and worshipping me again to completely manipulate me.  Now I am left with the remnants of my life after he abused me on Valentine's day and then called off our wedding, for me to have to cancel everything.  I have literally had the worst year of my life this past year because of him and I'm sorry that I ever met him.  Sorry to vent, but I need people who understand

Hi Mazda-

You are in good hands here! 

I will agree with you- initially, when all seems awesome and the honeymoon phase is in full swing, who wouldn't be captivated by our BPDex's?  But you said something very telling, which I have bolded above.

Does good behavior ever really make up for bad behavior? Does behaving for x amount of time take away the fact that someone breached your trust? Betrayed you? Took advantage of you? Manipulated your emotions? It does not. Certainly people make mistakes; and many people learn from them.  But the pattern of repeated ups and downs is NOT normal.  It is NOT healthy.  Notice how you phrased that sentence: "it was him who went back to being amazing and being able to manipulate me".  I think something that has to be mentioned is the fact that you were able to be manipulated by him.  People stay through the awful things that pwBPD put them through for a reason.  "Looking within yourself" is not to suggest that there is something "wrong" with you; it is to suggest that there are things you can learn about yourself so that you can avoid the same trap again.  Along the same lines of "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".  Does that make any sense?

[simplyasiam]

yes my ex had same r/s with me that she had with her ex husband and now shes having it with the guy she left me for. as far as i can tell its the same r/s shes been having from the time she frist started dating. only diff is im the only person she ever recycled with... .lucky me

[triangleheart]

Ugh, Mazda, I've had the worst three plus years of my life because of my BPD ex. Also have a called off engagement. I too feel like I have been left with the remnants of my life to pick up. All I can say is, no one deserves that and we will be better off without them.

I never dated a BPD before, or even close to it, before my ex. I dated lots before I got married and then was married for more than 10 years. I have to say that no previous relationship or breakup, not even my divorce, had any such drama, chaos, and pain like my relationship with my BPD ex. I am friendly with my ex husband (we have kids) and yet I cannot imagine ever being friends with the BPD ex. What he did to me is so hurtful, I will never fully be able to wrap my mind around it.

Was there a history? Yes. I am the third woman in a five year period that he has moved in with and then dumped out of the blue. The second woman with children he's done this to. Also the second fiance he's dumped. Basically, I am the latest woman in a string of women that he has abandoned over the past 20 years. He has never been married or had kids and is middle aged. He has ended all of his relationships and they've all played out and ended the same: he promises marriage and then strings them along until he has to make a committment or he just gets tired of them. He picks women with family money because he is poor and in financial trouble. He leaves very suddenly and the woman has no idea it's about to happen. With me and the last two women, I know he verbally and emotionally abused all of us. Me physcially was well, I don't know about the others.

I guess because all of my other relationships, including marriage, have not been that  chaotic and disorienting, the BPD relationship stands out as being a truly awful experience that I don't take responsibility for in terms of it happening because I was naive and never saw it coming. But... .I have gone on a few dates with a few guys since the break up and I have cut and run quickly when I see signs of problems like I did with the BPD ex. I would be happily single forever rather than have another experience like that again. I now know to ask men things like what were their previous relationships likes, etc.

[Mazda]

Thanks to all for your responses.  I have been reading this forum for quite some time, but never posted myself.  I guess I thought that posting here would confirm the finality of the end of that relationhit. 

I was an idiot to keep going back to him, especially after the stunts that he pulled and the indecent things both he and his family did.  I bought into that whole "fairytale" idea and thought I finally found my happy ending and he exploited it.  I myself have bipolar so the rollercoaster ride was extremely trying on myself and wreaked havoc with my own mental health.  While it was on-going, I wasn't aware that it could be borderline until my psychiatrist mentioned that his actions sounded like it (she's incredibly gifted and one of the top psychiatrists in the world).  I am going to share with everyone the advice that she gave me when she said there's a possibility that he was borderline, because now that I look back I realize I should have listened to her then and there, as a mental health expert was telling me this.

Her advice was:

"RUN"

I hope that gives you all as much solace as it now gives me.  I am not missing out on anything.  The truth is, as both my psych and therapist have pointed out to me, that BPD is extremely hard to treat, with most mental health practitioners hesitant to treat them.  They are so good at manipulation that even mental health professionals who are aware of the signs and have years of experience can get sucked in.  It takes many years to treat, and even then, improvement is not guaranteed. 

He drove me to madness myself, and then played on my bipolar and wouldn't listen to me when I insisted that ANYONE would act irrationally had they been subjected to the treatment and experience I had been through.  I am so insecure now as a result of all of his constant projecting and criticizing.  I am a shadow of the person I was before I met him, and had my dream wedding shattered in front of my eyes.  I have cried more at his hands than I have ever cried before in my life, and so many times he would hang up the phone when I was sobbing and then ignore my calls for hours, switching his phone off and falling asleep.  I wonder how anyone could treat another person like that?

Sorry again for the rant

[Ironmanrises]

I had actually thought of contacting my exUBPDgf previous ex before me... .

He actually works on one of the 25 blocks I walk through to get to work(how crazy is that?)... .

Mind you she lives in Boston and we both live in NYC... .

But since she made me feel so unsure of myself towards the end... .

I didn't know if she still kept in contact with him(she become secretive in devaluation phase in round 2)... .

And I didn't want to risk contacting him and this guy possibly turning around and telling her that I reached out to him.

So I took the less risky route and did not contact him.

Sometimes I think of contacting him still... .

But I usually put a stop to that complusion right away.

[happylogist]

I think the fact that in an early stages of any relationship (be it before you or after you) they proclaim their eternal love says something about the same pattern.

How many of you really believed that this is the ONE and the ONLY in the beginning of the relationship? I remember only two times, two were with men who either had BPD or strong BPD traits. The problem is that I behaved the same with them and this is something I need to work on.

[Ironmanrises]

Happy,

That proclaiming eternal love that is exhibited... .

Thing is... .

The pwBPD actually means it... .

Problem is... .

It lasts only in a certain time period... .

Which is idealization.

And then it stops.

And more times then not... .

They return... .

To proclaim yet again... .

That same exact eternal love.

It is no wonder us Nons become so discombobulated after repeated trips through this.

[ts919]

This is very interesting - my uBPDw's ex is actually my former best friend and I've thought of contacting him several times!  While they were dating, probably the last year of their 4 year r/s, he did one of the biggest 180's in personality I've ever seen a human do.  Went from being everyone's best friend, someone people just loved to be around, to one of the biggest pothead losers I've ever been around.  Started cheating on her, doing drugs, just totally changed.  At the time, in our large group of friends, we just thought he was a jerk and couldn't believe how he was treating this nice, beautiful girl we'd all come to love.

Fast forward 4 years later and her and I start dating.  We get married.

Now I know exactly why he did the 180 and exactly why I saw my best friend throw his life down the toilet. 

It was her all along.

I think I need to make a phone call   Maybe just to compare notes?  I'm very curious as to what he'll say... .

[Ironmanrises]

This is very interesting - my uBPDw's ex is actually my former best friend and I've thought of contacting him several times!  While they were dating, probably the last year of their 4 year r/s, he did one of the biggest 180's in personality I've ever seen a human do.  Went from being everyone's best friend, someone people just loved to be around, to one of the biggest pothead losers I've ever been around.  Started cheating on her, doing drugs, just totally changed.  At the time, in our large group of friends, we just thought he was a jerk and couldn't believe how he was treating this nice, beautiful girl we'd all come to love.

Fast forward 4 years later and her and I start dating.  We get married.

Now I know exactly why he did the 180 and exactly why I saw my best friend throw his life down the toilet. 

It was her all along.

I think I need to make a phone call   Maybe just to compare notes?  I'm very curious as to what he'll say... .

In bold.

Very sad to see that happen to another person... .

But is so telling of how much damage someone with BPD can do to those who are closest to them.

I can imagine the thought processes in his head... .

For someone to become like that.

Saddens me.

[ts919]

I had actually thought of contacting my exUBPDgf previous ex before me... .

He actually works on one of the 25 blocks I walk through to get to work(how crazy is that?)... .

Mind you she lives in Boston and we both live in NYC... .

Ironman... .I found this strange... .that you both were from NYC while she was from Boston.

The buddy I was speaking of in my last post... .we're both from the same small town.  Her?  Lived over an hour away.  Funny thing is... .in between her r/s with my old friend and our r/s she dated another guy briefly - from the same small town.   

How weird is that?

[Lady31]

I talked to his ex wife during the last year or so of the marriage.  AMAZING stuff I tell you.  He treated her the same way he treated me of course.  So interesting how they twist the stories of what happened to make themselves the victim and us feel sorry for them.

He always said how his ex wife was materialistic, was never satisfied, etc.  She told me that when she met him he had no car, was living in a motel, and had just lost his job!  That she paid for her own engagement ring.  Now - what materialistic woman does that?  It was his own sense of worthlessness... . And of course so many other things - the cycles of highs and lows constantly going from this new thing/lifestyle/hobby whatever that brought him hope and excitement in life back to the depressed emptiness.  The verbal abuse, the cutting her down.  The crazy mind games, the lies.  She was 20 at the time.  She went into a severe depression and became a heavy drinker.

I also became friends with one of his friends from high school/early 20's.  She dated his friend, and he lived with her at one point too so she was very aware of his personal life.  He had tons of women, lots of one night stands and the ones that lasted longer than that usually only lasted a few months.  Each time this was the ONE - and then within a short time they were "evil f*ing b*tches".  Excuse the language - that was his common term for them.  Because he had dated a few of her personal friends, she also was very aware of the specific episodes of abuse, verbal abuse and mind games as well as all the lies he would tell.

He's 40 now, this goes back from high school to now.  Same old story.

[hopealways]

Their patterns are the same. They have treated you the same as those who came before you, and those that will come after you (as well as those they were with while with you).

[fromheeltoheal]

I am so insecure now as a result of all of his constant projecting and criticizing.  I am a shadow of the person I was before I met him, and had my dream wedding shattered in front of my eyes. 

That wasn't a rant Mazda, it was honest sharing.  I too ended up with completely trashed self esteem and self confidence, along with PTSD, after my BPD 'experience'.  The good news is I just kept putting one foot in front of the other, doing what I needed to do, reading and writing a lot here, and it gets better, a lot better; don't ever think it's anywhere near permanent.

One thing that happened for me as the emotions subsided, the FOG cleared, and I began to process what went down more objectively, is the ridiculousness and complete unacceptability of most of her actions.  Forget the words, the actions were what was real.  Sure I, like you, labelled myself an idiot for a while, but you know what, we were emotionally enmeshed with a serious mental illness, and we really need to cut ourselves some slack.  Anyway, much more became clear to me, I looked at most of the things that happened differently given some time and some space, and all of the processing ended up making me feel pretty damn good about myself, so good in fact, that she screwed up badly by chasing such an awesome guy away, and a healthy girl is about to meet the man of her dreams.  Hang in there.

[Ironmanrises]

I had actually thought of contacting my exUBPDgf previous ex before me... .

He actually works on one of the 25 blocks I walk through to get to work(how crazy is that?)... .

Mind you she lives in Boston and we both live in NYC... .

Ironman... .I found this strange... .that you both were from NYC while she was from Boston.

The buddy I was speaking of in my last post... .we're both from the same small town.  Her?  Lived over an hour away.  Funny thing is... .in between her r/s with my old friend and our r/s she dated another guy briefly - from the same small town.   

How weird is that?

Very strange.

Sorry for my late response... .

I didnt notice it till now.

[GreenMango]

I had ex's and other people I didn't know outside of their name try to contact me to compare stories, try to warn me, or find out more.

You think I listened or took them up on the offer to talk.  Nope.  I believed the confabulations and bizarre explanations of a mentally ill person instead and didn't believe in getting in between other peoples conflicts/business

Lesson here - we all are ready to face and accept our reality/experience in our own time and pace.

[DownandOut]

Funny, she constantly talked about her exes and what went wrong, but she always made it like it was a mutual thing. Her reasons for breaking up with the prior 3 boyfriends were, in order, 1) he had another girlfriend the whole time they were dating, 2) she moved in with him after 2 months and they started fighting all the time (most likely over things she started); and 3) they just grew apart (reading between the lines he was probably being devalued at that point). She actually never talked bad about any of them except the first one who she dated for a very long time. I believe she did this to keep up the front that she always dated great guys they just weren't for her and how I was the ONE. The more I thought about it though she seemed to have an MO with all of them and the stories didn't match up to some of the things that were occurring. First of all, boyfriend 3 would always try to contact her on social media and text and she would always let me know about it. All this did was make me realize that she must have left him confused and wanting more and the whole "they grew apart" thing was nonsense. She booked vacations with all of the exes and then didn't follow up or, in one instance, had to leave the trip early because they were fighting too much. The other guy she just left with the bill for the flight. She told me about grand plans she had with boyfriend #2 and how some of those plans were scheduled during the time we were dating. I didn't know about BPD before and all of this sounded strange to me. I should've trusted my intuition because all of these oddities were classic BPD.

[GreenMango]

You know that old saying

When its always everyone else you are the common denominator. 

If the pattern is there and all you hear is how its always everyone else or someone is always the victim - they are the only common denominator.

[blurry]

My pwBPDs ex, immediately before me lasted 5 years, we had a fling during one of her breakups with him about 4 or 5 months into their relationship, then she reached out to me about 4 times over the next 4 years during subsequent breakups (I was in another relationship, so I didn't get sucked in till the last time, where I was single again). Plus I know of another breakup between them that didnt include her throwing a hook my way, plus left me for him once since we started and more recently tried going back to him 3 weeks after we got married. So what's the total recycles for him... .? 7 or 8 that I know of, id easily bet 10+ recycles if I had to guesstimate and include recycles I don't know of, especially since I'm at 7 or 8 in 16 months and their relationship was 5 years.

Her ex prior to him, she never gave me details why they broke up except basically pointed fault towards him, said something about him being tight with money (imagine that, one of the least trustworthy people I've ever met, complaining that one of her exes didn't trust her with his financial situation).

Well, when we finally met, me and him, she wasn't home and didn't know he was gonna stop by to pick his daughter up, but I was home. I'm pretty sure that if she was there, he probably wouldn't of informed me that she had cheated on him repeatedly, and tell me that I seem like a pretty decent guy and that he's only warning me for my own sake to get the hell out asap. Funny thing, looking back, I totally believed him, I just didn't believe she would try to hurt me so bad, mind you she had already went back the the ex I first mentioned above once already. Anyway, taking advice from a gfs ex isn't something I had been through before but definitely proved right, every word he said.

Ex prior to him (she has kids with all 3 of these guys), father of the first three of her 5 children, she left him at some point for 2 weeks before going back to him... .pregnant, and had an abortion. That was probably 15 years ago, and I told myself not to judge when I found out from her about this. More recently, I talked to this guys current wife and found out that was just the tip of the iceberg, that she had actually cheated on him repeatedly with multiple people. My pwBPD told me she broke if off with him because he started staying out at the bar after work. She definitely didn't include the part about her infidelity.

What's scary, that's the stuff I KNOW about. God knows what else shes done, I can't picture too much going on behind my back the year and a half we were off and on together, but anything is possible. What's even scarier, I still love the psycho, I just can't picture any possible way it can play out to where we can make this work now. I don't see it.

[Octoberfest]

I had ex's and other people I didn't know outside of their name try to contact me to compare stories, try to warn me, or find out more.

You think I listened or took them up on the offer to talk.  Nope.  I believed the confabulations and bizarre explanations of a mentally ill person instead and didn't believe in getting in between other peoples conflicts/business



Lesson here - we all are ready to face and accept our reality/experience in our own time and pace.

INCREDIBLY true.  And a critical realization. I think (well, I know... .) a lot of shame comes from Non's asking themselves "why did I stay for so long? Why did i put up with this for so long?".  You put up with it until you get to a point where it is too much.  Everyone can tolerate different levels of abuse. 

[findingmyselfagain]

Umbrella,

The pattern is repeated until the pwBPD experiences so much pain or hit rock bottom and wake up and smell the coffee.

I emailed some people who worked with her when we started dating and at different points in the r/s. They confirmed that they were really surprised at how fast she fell for me. She pretty much said I was wonderful, according to one of them. They confirmed that her past r/s's were "EXTREME" and they felt sorry for her at first until they found contradictions in her stories. Sure enough it was "topsy-turvy" and "full of chaos" with the guy right after me. I actually found her blog and it's a good reflection of her, high, depressed, and immature/child-like. This is who she really is/was. She was never the person I thought she was and likely never will be anyone I'd want to spend the rest of my life with. Crazy, isn't it?

I should have known better though. She was divorced twice at the age of 24 and had an infant daughter. Can you say MOVE SLOW?

But I ate up the love bombs like candy while ignoring some seriously strange behavior. The question for us is why did we jump in so quickly? Why didn't we walk sooner? We deserve much better and much healthier.

[DownandOut]

But I ate up the love bombs like candy while ignoring some seriously strange behavior. The question for us is why did we jump in so quickly? Why didn't we walk sooner? We deserve much better and much healthier.

We jumped in so quickly because these people are master manipulators. They used what they were able to discern from us against us. They knew what we wanted and became that. I have no other explanation because I, myself, and usually extremely guarded in my relationships.

[eeyore]

I know both of the ex's before me.  Both only speak highly of him openly.  But both drop clues behind the scene.  I believe they are in fear of any retaliations from him.  I now completely understand why.  He gathers information on you that is personal and if you don't hide his poor behavior he'll use it against you.  For me he didn't gather anything on me that could be used against me so he's creating/fabricating things and letting me know (threatening) what they are as to never talk to anyone about his behavior.

[fromheeltoheal]

But I ate up the love bombs like candy while ignoring some seriously strange behavior. The question for us is why did we jump in so quickly? Why didn't we walk sooner? We deserve much better and much healthier.

We jumped in so quickly because these people are master manipulators. They used what they were able to discern from us against us. They knew what we wanted and became that. I have no other explanation because I, myself, and usually extremely guarded in my relationships.

A BPD mirrors us to make themselves feel good.  They take what they see as our good and assimilate it, making them 'good' temporarily, until the fantasy caves in, then they're back to all bad, and project it on us.  It's not malicious, in fact it has nothing to do with us.

But yes, a BPD has great radar, and those of us who are susceptible for whatever reason might as well paint a target on our forehead.  That's because a BPD's come-ons are choreographed and forced, based in fantasy, and a healthy person wouldn't buy it.  We don't buy it either after a while, but by then we're enmeshed and seduced by a person with a serious mental illness, hard to climb out of, as we know.

[DragoN]

But I ate up the love bombs like candy while ignoring some seriously strange behavior. The question for us is why did we jump in so quickly? Why didn't we walk sooner? We deserve much better and much healthier.

We jumped in so quickly because these people are master manipulators. They used what they were able to discern from us against us. They knew what we wanted and became that. I have no other explanation because I, myself, and usually extremely guarded in my relationships.

A BPD mirrors us to make themselves feel good.  They take what they see as our good and assimilate it, making them 'good' temporarily, until the fantasy caves in, then they're back to all bad, and project it on us.  It's not malicious, in fact it has nothing to do with us.

But yes, a BPD has great radar, and those of us who are susceptible for whatever reason might as well paint a target on our forehead.  That's because a BPD's come-ons are choreographed and forced, based in fantasy, and a healthy person wouldn't buy it.  We don't buy it either after a while, but by then we're enmeshed and seduced by a person with a serious mental illness, hard to climb out of, as we know.

That ^^^ and I was lonely at the time. He was nice, but then he was Casanova as well and it's really on my head regardless. I knew better and should have left, but circumstances made it very difficult. Then the Push/ Pull and the rest. My own error.

[fromheeltoheal]

My own error.

Yeah, mine too, so let's spend 12 and a half seconds beating ourselves up, and then get on with the detachment and growth, yes?  What if our BPD came into our lives at a point where we had lessons to learn, and got them as a teacher?  Mine sure didn't feel like a teacher, more like a warlord, but in the end there were many lessons, borne out of the searching I needed to do to quell the pain.  And I'm better or it, and honestly don't think some of the mistakes of my past I will ever repeat.  Thanks BPD.

[DragoN]

Yeah, mine too, so let's spend 12 and a half seconds beating ourselves up, and then get on with the detachment and growth, yes?

Yes Sir!