Does anyone else's BPDs hate being in a team? Mine does - why is it a trigger?

[toomanytears]

Its funny you should say that I would always find myself saying to my ex "we are supposed to be a team" she just never got that concept.

Just reading this recent post from snappafcw - it struck a chord. My BPDh hated the idea of our partnership being a team. When we went to marriage counselling several years ago now, he got really riled when the MC raised the fact that as a family we had to co-operate as a team. In our recent breakdown, among the other slights he said were inflicted on him by the whole counselling experience, he raised this one - being in a team - as being a distasteful, almost repulsive concept.

I just don't get it. Surely if you had a fear of abandonment, being closely linked to another would be a comfort. But the whole idea seems to act as a trigger. What is going on in their heads here?

[GreenMango]

Expectations seem to throw things off. Maybe its the possibility of not performing and disappointment. 

[Reg]

Hi toomanytears,

What you're saying is that if we would have a fear of abandonment, we would feel good closely linked to another.  Someone with borderline has however also serious intimacy problems... .Plus the shame, fears, etc.  They seem to be unable to be close to someone, as they seem convinced that, that someone will leave them, as everybody has left them in their lives relationship wise (that was a fact in the case of my ex) and this will not change without help and therapy... .

My former partner couldn't either handle the word 'we'.  That should have been a red flag that there was no we, just her and her needs... .  It is all about them, very little about us.

She was also doing everything on that matter not to be a team, there was never a joint account at the bank for example, she didn't want that.

[MammaMia]

Very simply put, pwBPD do not trust anyone.  

My dBPDs often tells me he cannot stand to be around people.  They are morons. If you do not think exactly like he does, you are a moron.  

Yes, pwBPD fear abandonment, but they also fear being connected to anyone.  They are lonely.

They also fear loss of control.  On the other hand, they want us to take care of them.

They are in constant conflict with themselves.  

[toomanytears]

Thanks everyone.

Your suggestions all make sense - in the context of my BPDh's fears. His sister died when he was just ten years old (she was one year older). His parents quickly replaced her with a baby brother. The feelings of abandonment but not wishing to be close to someone would seem entirely understandable give that early experience. He won't acknowledge that this shattering event had any impact on his behaviour or our relationship. In fact he's had several sessions of counselling to prove to himself that it was quite irrelevant and the fault lay with me. His self destruct mechanism is overriding. We've got a wonderful family life and he's just secured a dream job. What's not to like: Everything, if you are emotionally disregulated... .

[musicfan42]

I don't like being in a team either and I don't have BPD. I don't think this is just a BPD issue. And I don't think it's such a weird thing to be honest either...

I don't like being in a team because:

-what if the other person lets me down? I know that I can only really rely on myself. I've had that feeling of aloneness/alienation, whatever you want to call it since childhood. When I rely on other people, I'm inevitably disappointed whereas when I just do it myself, I come out on tops. Other people are selfish, out for themselves, not out for me and if I'm in a team, then they'll suck me dry/use me then dump me.

-No one understands me. They say they do but when it comes down to it, they don't.

-Sure people say "we're in a team" but do they really mean that? Words do not equal actions. I don't trust other people... .anyone really. I don't trust myself either so the whole issue of trust is incredibly problematic for me. If I trusted myself, then I would probably trust other people more but as I don't, I judge other people as harshly as I judge myself. I'm judgmental but I try to keep my judgments to myself now because I've been told that I'm "negative" before and I don't want to listen to that nonsense again!

-I kind of operate by the motto "hope for the best, prepare for the worst". Most relationships don't work out in the long run... the high rate of divorce etc etc. Whilst I'd like a relationship to work out, I know that realistically it won't so basically I need a contingency plan/plan B to fall back on. Plus relationship break ups get very nasty-people say lovely crap at the start but it all gets thrown out the window by the end. As I said before, words are meaningless... .I always take them with a pinch of salt/don't believe them.

-I've never really had anyone offer me the level of emotional support that I would like so no, they didn't really love me at all... they never really saw us as a "team"... they just thought of themselves so why can't I think of myself? I'm just protecting myself really at the end of the day-it's nothing against the other person... I'd be the same with anyone... not just them. It's like getting a pre-nup before marriage... it just gives the person peace of mind... .insurance against the worst almost.

I don't like teamwork in any context though. I definitely work best ALONE. Teamwork seems so contrived and artificial to me... .people that secretly hate each others' guts being forced to team up together on a project or something. Maybe it's because my family was unhappy yet had to project this image of being an united team? I'm sure that if I was from a really happy home, then I'd love the idea of teamwork but I'm not naive... I know better.

[DragoN]

Very simply put, pwBPD do not trust anyone.  

My dBPDs often tells me he cannot stand to be around people.  They are morons. If you do not think exactly like he does, you are a moron.  

This also ties into control. If you cannot control the thoughts of another either through manipulation, Gas lighting or intimidation, what's a BPD to do? In a team environment they cannot practice their isolation tactics. They will get called out on it. Same thing can be said for the extreme co dependents as well.

Much like musicfan42, I prefer to work Alone. Any errors/ failures are my errors / failures and responsibility.

[Ironmanrises]

Accountability... .

That is why.

If they are not part of your team... .

They are not held accountable to you.

All that horrible behavior they know will arise in devaluation... .

If they are not part of your team... .

In their mind... .

Allows them to do that to you... .

Minus repercussion.

Minus accountability.

[DragoN]

True. Accountability. That is the very last thing a PD will assume/accept. Let alone responsibility for their actions and their impact on another.

Smoke and mirrors of plausible deniability is the PD maneuver of choice.

Gas lighting: I don't what you mean? I never said that.

[Ironmanrises]

True. Accountability. That is the very last thing a PD will assume/accept. Let alone responsibility for their actions and their impact on another.

Smoke and mirrors of plausible deniability is the PD maneuver of choice.

Gas lighting: I don't what you mean? I never said that.

Good description.

In bold.

I heard that from my ex on far too many occasions.

It got to the point where i had to almost convince myself that... .

That is what she actually said.

I get a brain cramp even remembering those periods.

Smoke and mirrors in a maze of hell.

[DragoN]

I get a brain cramp even remembering those periods.

Me too.

Along with : That's not what I meant. You heard me wrong. You should know what I mean if you loved me.


Waste of energy and life.

[fromheeltoheal]

My experience is a BPD doesn't think highly enough of themselves to operate as a team member.  Teammates are autonomous individuals who hold up their end of the deal, and a BPD, a half-baked self, does not have their own identity, they must attach to feel whole, and that doesn't mean form a partnership with someone else, it means attach to someone to become one person.  Hard to get your head around.  In a 'team' a BPD will always feel less than, so they opt for more than, the boss, in total control, because the other extreme is just too painful.  There are also waif BPD's who attain control by being weak and needy, but the underlying motivation is the same, a lack of self, a lack of ability to connect, so rise above it all or perish.  There could never be an 'us', they just aren't capable.

[toomanytears]

Hi musicfan42.  

You've set me thinking. I also hated being in teams (at school) and much preferred to working on my own - and creating on my own. Ironically I now work in a large creative team  - not by my own choosing but it's come about that way. I actually quite enjoy it and bouncing ideas off each other is very productive.  Although I love retreating to my own little space and doing my own artwork when I get home.

I wonder, the word 'team' could sound a bit threatening to some people as it has sporting/aggressive resonances.

To me, for a couple, the word partnership is better... .and if you add children in that, well, you have a family... .

But I think fromhealtoheel has a point too. Even being in a partnership could mean a lack of control if the other person is allowed to have their own thoughts... .Yes my head is slowly getting round it... hard... .

[DragoN]

My experience is a BPD doesn't think highly enough of themselves to operate as a team member.  Teammates are autonomous individuals who hold up their end of the deal, and a BPD, a half-baked self, does not have their own identity, they must attach to feel whole, and that doesn't mean form a partnership with someone else, it means attach to someone to become one person.  Hard to get your head around.  In a 'team' a BPD will always feel less than, so they opt for more than, the boss, in total control, because the other extreme is just too painful.  There are also waif BPD's who attain control by being weak and needy, but the underlying motivation is the same, a lack of self, a lack of ability to connect, so rise above it all or perish.  There could never be an 'us', they just aren't capable.

Really good way of putting it.

Perhaps that is where the : " You are nothing without me!" Projection comes into play? Not sure, but heard it enough times. 

I am very much someone without her!

[fromheeltoheal]

I am very much someone without her!

Yes you are, and she literally does not exist without attaching to someone else, the core of the disorder.  Getting your head around that and the way it manifests, along with the push away when they feel engulfed, really helped me make sense of what happened.  The crazy that makes you feel gives you a hint to how they feel full time.

[pari]

My exBPDbf always wanted us to be team mates, which I also believed in. But his definition of team mate was different from mine.

His definition: I want to be a part of your life, for every small and big thing.

My definition: I am so glad you want to be there for me. I can do my things on my own and will definitely ask you if I need help. I am so happy I have someone to count on.

This difference often triggered arguments between us. An example, He wanted to pick me from work and I preferred to use public transport. This triggered feeling of abandonment in him, making him feel I don't want to include him in my life. Whereas, I don't like the idea of troubling anyone for small thing when I am perfectly capable of doing it myself.

I have always been independent woman and prefer to do things on my own. Very rarely do I ask for help and over decades this has become a habit. ExBPDbf wanted me to include him in my every action. He wanted me to rely on him for small things, which I could not.

[musicfan42]

You've set me thinking. I also hated being in teams (at school) and much preferred to working on my own - and creating on my own. Ironically I now work in a large creative team  - not by my own choosing but it's come about that way. I actually quite enjoy it and bouncing ideas off each other is very productive.  Although I love retreating to my own little space and doing my own artwork when I get home.

Yes-I didn't like being in teams in school. I felt that I was the hardest working person on the team. I felt that I was the leader-having to micromanage all these other lazy people to make sure they had done the work.

I wonder, the word 'team' could sound a bit threatening to some people as it has sporting/aggressive resonances.

Yeah-I wasn't really sporty in school. I still dislike anything macho as it's too aggressive for my liking.

To me, for a couple, the word partnership is better... .and if you add children in that, well, you have a family... .

I'm reluctant to use the word "partnership"... maybe when I'm older, I might come around to it but I doubt it somehow. Men are just so different to women. I'm really emotional and I find that men never listen to me or validate me when I'm struggling with a problem. No-it's all about problem solving. I accept it now but it means there's this innate distance between me and any man. I resent it. I never feel heard in relationships-that sometimes I have to act in a very emotional manner before I get any attention at all. It probably is attention-seeking but honestly, I think that people look at me and think "oh she's so together, she doesn't need any reassurance" whereas in reality, I need emotional support just like anyone else! Some people are so dim-witted at times. I feel that I had to act out to get any attention growing up too-that I was just fobbed off the whole time! So that's why I don't like the term "family" either... .it brings up mixed emotions within me.

I used to lose my temper in relationships and I think I did that just to get the other person's attention-to say "look, I'm struggling here... I need comfort, I need reassurance". I didn't have the communication skills to just ask for those things directly so I'd lose my cool instead and just pushed people away. I can understand other peoples' viewpoint too-I try to project a strong image... this image of me as a wise, intelligent person really. And sure, that's one side of me but then on the other side, I'm this vulnerable girl only I don't want anyone to know that! What if they reject me if they know how vulnerable I actually feel? I'm very sensitive deep down but I try to act like I'm not basically in case someone tries to take advantage of me.

I'm getting a bit better with this. I can ask for things like a hug now if I feel upset and that's normally worked out well. I've realized that if I want support, I need to ask for something tangible and specific... that it can't just be a rant about how upset I feel.

But I think fromhealtoheel has a point too. Even being in a partnership could mean a lack of control if the other person is allowed to have their own thoughts... .Yes my head is slowly getting round it... hard... .

Yes-the lack of control is a part of it for me too. I'm codependent so I crave enmeshment with another person. I want the other person to be the same as me. I'm learning about boundaries etc however I still feel secretly annoyed if they have a different opinion to me or if they don't understand my viewpoint.

I think the control ensures that I don't get too vulnerable... that I don't completely let my guard down and get hurt/abandoned/rejected.