Mother and Daughter- Ground Rules

[bluebell7]

Hello-  I'm grateful to have found this site today.  I am eager to hear from others who have been down this road. 

My daughter is 20, and we have a difficult relationship.  She is the youngest of 3 girls.  We need ground rules-for adults living together, but she doesn't take responsibility for anything.  It's difficult to live in chaos and at the mercy of her outbursts.  More civility would be nice, but that's tolerable right now.  She wants to move out in June but I don't know if I can continue to live this way. 

I love my daughter very much.  She deserves the best chance to be healthy.  I know that needs to be balanced with what is healthy for me and the family.  She is in therapy and I (now) have a therapist so we can have sessions where we are each supported.  My therapist suggests that I focus on my priorities - since she is planning to move out- and that she needs to experience the consequences of her choices.  Moving out (even though she lacks the maturity) will benefit both of us.  It is a difficult situation.  Her therapist is helping, and things are getting better but she's not diagnosed with BPD.  Sometimes I think we need to live separately now.  I don't argue with her anymore, but I'm unhappy.  This doesn't feel like a home, we are truly "walking on eggshells".  Some strategies work very well, and that's great, but so many things remain unresolved. 

What would you do?  Live with the chaos and outbursts?  Insist that she follow household rules?  Is there a way to do both?  Thanks.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hello Bluebell7,

and the Parenting a Son or Daughter Board.  We are very pleased to have you here and want to be a source of information and support for you.

I'm sorry to hear that your home is not one of peace and respect... .that is a common theme for all of us who have a child that suffers from BPD and BPD traits.

I'm glad to hear that your unBPD20 (undiagnosed with BPD daughter, 20 years old) is in therapy and that you also have a t (therapist).  What type of therapy is your unBPD20 in?  Do you know?

You say she is the youngest of 3 girls, do any of your other children still live at home?  How are they coping?

You didn't mention the girls Dad in your post, does he have a relationship (r/s) with her?

So very promising to hear that you are benefiting from some of the strategies you have learned.  I would be interested to know what strategies you find helpful. 

I can recall sitting in family t with my daughter and telling the t we have not solved any problems because she refuses to discuss things and come to a resolution.  His reply was basically that my d set a boundary that she didn't want to talk about it so that boundary needed to be respected.  Huh?  I realized that she didn't have the skills to talk about it in a helpful way.  Our children need to learn coping skills to be able to resolve issues and so do we.

The good news is that she did learn and so did her dad and I. 

I look forward to hearing back from you and learning how to best support you going forward.

lbjnltx

[Being Mindful]

Hello Bluebell7,

Welcome!

Your situation sounds very familiar to what we went through with my BPD.d20. It is not easy to live on eggshells 24/7. I'm so glad you are here. This site has been a life saver for me in education and support. Lbj has asked some very good questions. I look forward to reading your response to see how we can help.

Being Mindful

[bluebell7]

Good Afternoon,

It is comforting to receive replies so quickly.  This is the first time I've received sympathy for my home situation.  I appreciate having support and I know I have a lot to learn.

Your use of the term "boundaries" is appealing to me.  If I think of some of D's reactions as boundaries, I can deal with them much better.  Thanks for that.

I will try to answer your questions without going on too long.

I was married for 17 years and had 3 children.  Both myself and my exH have a family history of mental illness and experienced physical/emotional abuse in our childhood.  

I haven't been diagnosed with Mental Illness, but my x and his parents suffer.  I have been in counseling (as needed) over the past 20 years.  I ended the marriage because my exH became abusive as the children grew.  He was estranged from them, while we lived as a family.  As he became violent, I got a temporary restraining order.  My d's were (7, 11, 13 for the r/o, then 9, 13, 15 at the divorce). He attended some counseling but couldn't accept what was needed to heal relationships.  He agreed for the girls to move out of State with me after the divorce (I needed to be near family).  The girls were pleased about the divorce and had relatively little contact with him.

For my uBPDd, this means that she grew up in chaos.  So sad.  She was devastated by her F's actions, afraid, anxious and ignored.  She and one sister had visitations for 2 weeks/year until she was 14.  This upset and confused her.  She has been in counseling and on meds since age 7.  A few months after moving, my middle D was diagnosed with BiPolar Disorder type 2.  They were all depressed and angry.  The older 2 needed a lot of attention and I worked long hours.  Luckily I worked from home, but that meant that she didn't have the nurturing she deserved... .and that I was stressed out.  At age 14, my uBPDd was hospitalized (she was overly anxious and mildly self harming).  This confirmed her diagnosis - BiPolar Disorder NOS and Anxiety Disorder with depression, but something about it didn't seem to fit, even the psychiatrist agreed.  She had behavioral and emotional problems since she was very young and had little growth in those areas.

Since HS graduation, she has been in emotional turmoil.  Mostly angry, isolated and blaming, but also avoiding responsibility and stuck in the same patterns and doing nothing to make changes.  She describes herself as a victim, so sad.

What do her S's think?  Well, it's stormy.  The oldest says she is just so hard to like.  She is age 26 and independent.  But also that we shouldn't give up on her.  The middle sister lives with us and learned to walk on eggshells, avoiding all contact at times.  I've shared what I've learned with her.  She has been emotionally stable for quite a while.  We both agree that SET techniques and Validation work best.  She is sensitive to her S. Both believe she has great potential, but are distant and guarded about the relationship.

What counseling is she in?  She sees a young PhD.  I attended a few sessions and they went badly.  I was hurt and angry and didn't understand.  In March I asked for Ground Rules so we could reduce stress and build trust.  The PhD asked me to get a therapist so we could have 4 way conversations.  It took me until May to understand why this was necessary, but we only just had our first 4 way session last week.  My D's PhD said that they had been working on her relationship with me for the past year.  

When I met my T (LISW who does not treat BPD by choice) I described my D, she said I was describing BPD very well even though I hadn't mentioned it.  She recommended the book "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me".  That led me to find 2 other books "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and "Loving Someone with BPD", but I have only just begun those 2.  These books describe my situation very well.  My T helped me see my  anxiety and pointed out that I was feeling shame and blaming my self too much.  Also that I was enabling even though I was trying not to.  She spoke to my D's PhD and let me know that D is not in treatment for BPD, says the diagnosis could be Anxiety/depression.  Also said that we would proceed as if D has BPD because those are the features we are seeing.  She sees this as a situation of adults living together, but the PhD's point of view is that this M/D relationship problem.  After our 4 way session, my T observed that my D is afraid to fail and will not take ownership of anything-she refused to commit to any one household chore- and that stands in the way of making an agreement.

I try to be well informed and hopeful.  We've participated in a Family Study at the University.  I've tried to support her therapy.  I've attended lectures by Mental Health experts and attended a 12 week Family Education program from NAMI.  About 2 years ago I finished a hear of weekly counseling of my own so I can learn to heal from my own past.

So that's my story.  :)o you want to share yours?

[pessim-optimist]

 

Hi bluebell7!

I wanted to say WELCOME to this board!

It sounds like you already have collected a lot of good resources and the therapy situation also sounds promising... .

The two books that you are currently reading are great (Stop Walking on Eggshells is an excellent 'starter resource' that describes BPD in conscise and understandable way; Loving Someone w/BPD is one of my favorite books - it does a wonderful job describing the BPD behaviors in ways that both give us more compassion for the ill person, and offers suggestions on how to practically help them)

Our family situation is somewhat different in that our undiagnosed daughter (my step-daughter) is an adult, and married with 3 children. We did live with her a couple of times when her husband was deployed abroad, and the atmosphere that you describe was very similar... .

Then, later on, we had a very turbulent year and a half with almost a year of no communication (N/C). That was the time when we discovered BPD and started educating ourselves on BPD.

It has made all the difference. We now better undestand her behaviors, and are better able to be compassionate and not take things personally. The combination of the SET technique, validation and boundaries have been crucial in shifting the communication into a much more healthy territory.

[lbjnltx]

Hello again bluebell,

You sure sound like you are moving in the right direction. The skills you refer to are the cornerstone of good communication which leads to better relationships.

The next step might be to focus on some skills for yourself to help you be under less stress and have a greater sense of inner peace.  Are you familiar with DBT (dialectical behavior therapy)?  It was developed by a recovered borderline, Marsha Linehan.  Mindfulness, wisemind, and radical acceptance are highly beneficial for our kids to learn as well as ourselves.

As far as my story... .I have been here for 4 years more or less.  My d is almost 17 and has been in therapy of one sort or another since she was 10.  Outpatient wasn't working so we did almost a year of RTC.  She graduated from the RTC 2 years ago and is doing well still. 

lbjnltx

[qcarolr]

Hi Bluebell,

Thank you for sharing your story with us. It is great that your D is willing to be in therapy, and that this 4 way approach is available. Many of us here with adult kids struggle with limits on our connections to our kids therapy. They never get our side of the story.

Here is a bit of my story:

The version of reality shared by my BPDDD27 is often skewed. My DD also accepts that her issues center around anxiety, depression and perhaps some PTSD. She and I also have a very conflicted relationship. My dh and I have had custody of our gd8 (granddaughter, age 8) since she was a baby. DD basically abandoned her to us at 9 months, though she claims we 'stole her'.

My DD living away from our home has been difficult, though her living here is very troubled too. Some of this is because I struggle so to manage my own mental health issues and be consistent with DD in using the skills. Dh has been one to just withdraw, holding all his anger and resentments deep under the surface.

Our family needs space from her to feel safe at this point - she wants to be here yet will not accept that any house rules apply to her. This leads to continuous conflict with lots of threats. Most of this conflict this year is about having her homeless friends in our home. This has created a lot of trauma for gd. I am deeply sad that my inconsistency did not shield her from the chaos of the relationship between her mom, dh and I.

DD has refused to participate in therapy most of her life, even when she went as a child because I took her there. This is seen as abuse to her - making her take meds. (bipolar dx at age 6) and making her go to 'pointless' sessions to 'brain wash' her. When she turned 16 she signed herself out of everything.

Currently DD is in jail for probation violations on DWAI-drug conviction (pot), and two harassment charges with exbf. She seems to be moving toward accepting a new probation option that includes mental health treatment along with the drug/alcohol treatment. I have to make myself get out of her way. This PACE program will only help her if she comes to participate of her own free will, not due to my desires and expectations. She is not going to be allowed to return to our home and we hope she accepts a transitional housing option at the homeless shelter. Her other option is to return to the homeless community she has been attached to for the past 4 years.

I have a lot of HOPE, always. My love will never cease for my DD. I am back to a place where I have the support I need with a T, support group, unity with my dh at last, and support for my gd in T and at school -- I think I can put the many skills I have in my toolbag to work more consistently.

The support I get daily from this board is my sanity. I can see the hope and love you have for your D. If she can find a supportive place to live away from you home, this might be a good thing. It has certainly been helpful for others here with young adult BPD kids.

qcr

[Being Mindful]

Hi Bluebell,

My d. is almost 21. We started seeking services for her when she was about 6. She has had years of interventions and therapy, including 14 continuous months of residential, followed by 7 months of a therapeutic foster care home, several hospitalizations, out patient treatment, multiple therapists, medications etc. etc. Our significant improvement came with an adolescent/parent DBT skills course, not that our d. made much improvement, but it opened my eyes to how I can change. When we changed ourselves is when we started to see very slow changes over time with our d. She has been living separate from us for about 2 years and is doing fairly well. She certainly isn't in recovery or even close to it, but she is exceeding what we imagined. We provide typical emotional, family support to her and our relationship with her is really, really good. It is not the life I dreamed for her but I have learned a far more valuable lesson in that I still have her and we have a relationship that is growing and growing. I hold onto this when I grieve the losses associated with BPD.

[bluebell7]

Hello to you all-  Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.  I appreciate you for taking the time and it helps to know that you are speaking from this shared experience, although a difficult one.  I'm starting to think of this in terms of what our new "normal" will be.  I realize more than ever that I can only continue to live in a way that is true to myself and that includes the tools that I'm learning.  I need to let go of "needing" a certain solution or a few specific changes.  The "normal" of the past 3 months has been better than before so that's good.  It helps me to see your perspective. 

You've each helped me to realize that- when I can live in a better "normal" for a while, I'll be able to see things with more hope, as  you do.  My d's emotional storms will continue to come, but I need remain true to myself throughout... .more than I need some things to change.

[pessim-optimist]

Hi bluebell!

It sounds like you are moving in a very good direction.