Loss of Dignity and Value

[mary_sunshine]

I don't know what it's going to take for me to realize that I have to stop contacting my UBPD ex-so. My mind knows a million ways he hurts me, but my heart keeps right on loving him and wanting him back. The worst part is I feel demeaned and humiliated for begging and contacting him over and over, when he ignores me. I get so upset and I write the stupidest emails-- long rambling love letters reminding him of how special we were together and of the good times and trying to convince him I could do better. ME! The one who was ALWAYS good to him, who did everything in the world to make things better, who paid for us to go to counseling, who was ALWAYS emotionally and physically available. I tell him I will do better! Make things nicer for him. Be gentler so he won't get so upset. And he often will respond with a one sentence email saying he doesn't feel good and all this is too overwhelming to talk about. When I have asked if he's stopped loving me, he always says he loves me just like always. I think that is what keeps me hooked. He claims he is just scared. But this has gone on for months, and he seems to be doing just fine moving ahead with his life and socializing with other people. I just feel so stupid for clinging on and begging. I was the person everyone thought he was lucky to have! I was on a pedestal. And now I feel like a complete joke. I feel that I have been reduced in his eyes to the lowliest person. And I feel like the lowliest person.

[Ironmanrises]

I don't know what it's going to take for me to realize that I have to stop contacting my UBPD ex-so. My mind knows a million ways he hurts me, but my heart keeps right on loving him and wanting him back. The worst part is I feel demeaned and humiliated for begging and contacting him over and over, when he ignores me. I get so upset and I write the stupidest emails-- long rambling love letters reminding him of how special we were together and of the good times and trying to convince him I could do better. ME! The one who was ALWAYS good to him, who did everything in the world to make things better, who paid for us to go to counseling, who was ALWAYS emotionally and physically available. I tell him I will do better! Make things nicer for him. Be gentler so he won't get so upset. And he often will respond with a one sentence email saying he doesn't feel good and all this is too overwhelming to talk about. When I have asked if he's stopped loving me, he always says he loves me just like always. I think that is what keeps me hooked. He claims he is just scared. But this has gone on for months, and he seems to be doing just fine moving ahead with his life and socializing with other people. I just feel so stupid for clinging on and begging. I was the person everyone thought he was lucky to have! I was on a pedestal. And now I feel like a complete joke. I feel that I have been reduced in his eyes to the lowliest person. And I feel like the lowliest person.

In bold.

In devaluation... .

My exUBPDgf was interacting with everyone else... .

Except for me.

She would only text me one or two words... .

Literally.

I would go on facebook/instagram... .

And she would be replying with paragraphs to everyone else.

It saddened me to see that... .

But it was further affirmation... .

That she is mentally disordered.

She had done the same exact thing in round 1 of the relationship as well.

She would barely interact with me... .

But interact normally with everyone else.

A pattern of behavior.

It does not stop.

A cycle.

From hell.

Who acts this way my friends would ask me at the time?... .

Someone with BPD.

I know how you feel.

It hurts.

The more you attempt to contact him... .

The more you feed into his already awful behavior.

You are longing for the idealization... .

It is not worth it.

Even when you get the idealization back... .

Hell will follow in its wake.

And he will hurt you again.

Hang in there.

[mary_sunshine]

She would only text me one or two words... .

Literally.

I would go on facebook/instagram... .

And she would be replying with paragraphs to everyone else.

OMG! Yes! He could always pour on the charm for everyone but me. And Facebook really illuminates the problem. Yesterday he was wishing some woman happy birthday on FB, and on my birthday it never even occurred to him.

It seems like there is no end to the ways he is able to hurt me. Just when I think it couldn't get any worse, he is able to twist the knife. And we're not even together! But I know he can only hurt me if I stay attached and have contact. That is why I have to stop! And I have to stop worrying/thinking about what he does now that he's gone because it makes me feel so horrible.

[Ironmanrises]

She would only text me one or two words... .

Literally.

I would go on facebook/instagram... .

And she would be replying with paragraphs to everyone else.

OMG! Yes! He could always pour on the charm for everyone but me. And Facebook really illuminates the problem. Yesterday he was wishing some woman happy birthday on FB, and on my birthday it never even occurred to him.

It seems like there is no end to the ways he is able to hurt me. Just when I think it couldn't get any worse, he is able to twist the knife. And we're not even together! But I know he can only hurt me if I stay attached and have contact. That is why I have to stop! And I have to stop worrying/thinking about what he does now that he's gone because it makes me feel so horrible.

In bold.

It was the same exact thing for me too.

On facebook... .

She did not write happy birthday on my wall... .

All my friends did.

I had not responded to any of their posts because i was already a shell of myself... .

Due to the devaluation.

She actually asked me... .

"Why did you not respond to the people who wished you happy birthday on your wall... .?"

Mind you... .

She was putting me through hell... .

She did not wish me that.

And is asking me that... .

I never responded to her question... .

I just remember thinking... .

":)oes she not hear or see what she is doing?... ."

It didnt matter at that point... .

The discard was days away.

NC is only option for you.

It hurts.

But it hurts far less then further contact with that person.

If you were to allow that person back into your life... .

You would experience the same exact pattern of behavior.

Again.

When i saw my ex interacting with everyone else in round 2... .

I literally wanted to scream... .

":)o you not see that you are acting the same f¥cking way you did the first time too?"

Had i even said something like that to her... .

It would have made no difference.

The behavior would have continued.

There was no stopping it.

[Bananas]

Hi mary_sunshine!

I am so sorry you are feeling this way and I can relate!  I could have written your post.  I did the exact same thing many times in my r/s when my ex was pushing me away and at the end of the relationship.  It only stops until you stop it.  It is the hardest thing to do, believe me. 

And I know exactly how you feel, my ex is super charming and has most of the women in my office fooled.  It makes me sick to my stomach.  But I really think they are able to be this way only to people they are NOT close to.  Once you get close the image starts to crack. 

You are not the lowliest person.  That I know.  You are someone that has a lot of emapthy and compassion and cares a great deal for others.  You are like me and so many of the others on this board.  These relationships do a number on our self esteem. 

I am reading this book right now, The Betrayal Bond, and it is helping me maintain nc, not an easy task as I work with my ex.  You can read more about it here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=77344.0

Be good to yourself.   

[Octoberfest]

Hi Mary_Sunshine 

Going No Contact is a very personal decision; there is no one end-all-save-all way to go about ending and detaching from a BPD relationship.  I found that I tried to go NC MANY times, failing each time.  At the beginning I could last a few hours.  Then a day.  Then two.  All the way up to a week.  Then a month, and now, almost 2.5 months.  What I discovered is that for me, NC happened finally when I was ready for it.  I firmly believe that I was only torturing myself by trying to force myself to quit talking to my BPDex before I was ready. I had to come to BELIEVE for myself that talking to her was going to bring nothing positive or productive to my life.  What did it was her going and telling my friends, knowing that they would tell me, that she was engaged to the guy she cheated on me with most recently (who she had known for 2.5 months at that point) the same night that she asked to come over and party with my friends and I when I was in town this summer (I told her no).  I was so mad that she found a way to ruin my trip to my college town, which was supposed to be a fun summer night with my friends.  The next morning I sent her a text that said something to the following: "It's F*cked up that you still found a way to ruin my night.  I'm done having you drag me down.  Go live your own ___ty live with the ___ty people in it.  Leave me alone and stay away from my friends", and then blocked her number.  It remains blocked.

Don't feel like you are alone... .detaching from a pwBPD that you have formed an attachment with is oftentimes on par with breaking an addiction.  It is hard as hell.  It is an uphill battle every day, and it is very easy to slide backwards.  But you, just like so many here already have, can do it.

Hang in there.

[mary_sunshine]

Thank you all for your kind responses! I feel very sad today, but reading your messages made it more bearable, and the similarities only confirm the kind of person I am dealing with. But again, my crazy   still adores him.

Ironmanfalls-

I so relate to your wanting to scream at your ex. I was thinking something like that today after being hurt yet again finding out the attention he is paying to someone else, even though he claims he doesn't want to be with anyone ever again. I wanted to shout, "F YOU!" at the top of my lungs. I do have anger, tons of it. It's all been suppressed. I've never dared to be anything but gentle and kind with him, so as not to upset his delicate psyche. And if I did let loose and say what an ass he has been at times, he would use that as evidence that he was right to leave me, because I am mean.

Bananas-

Thanks for you words of encouragement. My ex has so many friends and they all think he is the sweetest, most wonderful guy in the world. Even MY friends do! It's amazing how he can control his irrational behavior in social settings, but at home he seems to have no control and no consideration for my feelings ever. And thanks for the book suggestion. I will check it out.

Octoberfest-

I really appreciate what you said about NC. It is the hardest thing in the world for me. I'm no good at it at all. I can't even stop writing to him when he is ignoring me, so I can't imagine ignoring him if he contacted me. I've never done that to anyone I've loved. It never came to that. I was always able to be kind. And I think it's so true that it's something you can't force. Or maybe some people can. But I don't  think I'm to that point yet. At the same time, I know as long I engage with him he will still be able to hurt me, and the pain he inflicts is just as intense as when we were together. I guess all I can do is try to focus on other things in my life and keep reminding myself that I am so much better off without him. It's hard for me though.

[Ironmanrises]

Thank you all for your kind responses! I feel very sad today, but reading your messages made it more bearable, and the similarities only confirm the kind of person I am dealing with. But again, my crazy   still adores him.

Ironmanfalls-

I so relate to your wanting to scream at your ex. I was thinking something like that today after being hurt yet again finding out the attention he is paying to someone else, even though he claims he doesn't want to be with anyone ever again. I wanted to shout, "F YOU!" at the top of my lungs. I do have anger, tons of it. It's all been suppressed. I've never dared to be anything but gentle and kind with him, so as not to upset his delicate psyche. And if I did let loose and say what an ass he has been at times, he would use that as evidence that he was right to leave me, because I am mean.

Bananas-

Thanks for you words of encouragement. My ex has so many friends and they all think he is the sweetest, most wonderful guy in the world. Even MY friends do! It's amazing how he can control his irrational behavior in social settings, but at home he seems to have no control and no consideration for my feelings ever. And thanks for the book suggestion. I will check it out.

Octoberfest-

I really appreciate what you said about NC. It is the hardest thing in the world for me. I'm no good at it at all. I can't even stop writing to him when he is ignoring me, so I can't imagine ignoring him if he contacted me. I've never done that to anyone I've loved. It never came to that. I was always able to be kind. And I think it's so true that it's something you can't force. Or maybe some people can. But I don't  think I'm to that point yet. At the same time, I know as long I engage with him he will still be able to hurt me, and the pain he inflicts is just as intense as when we were together. I guess all I can do is try to focus on other things in my life and keep reminding myself that I am so much better off without him. It's hard for me though.

In bold.

The catch-22 of BPD... .

It would have been the same with me too.

No self reflection on their part.

Now that i am no longer on facebook/instagram... .

Permanently... .

Whatever bad things she has/or continues to say about me... .

To others... .

If there is/was someone else(i do not know)... .

Actually renders her painting of me black... .

Moot.

All they have to do is see... .

That i am no longer on there... .

And a  should appear over their heads... .

If Ironmanfalls was so bad... .

Why is he no longer on these 2 social sites he so heavily used... .?

What would make him disappear like that... .?

Their actions have consequences.

Sooner or later... .

All of that surfaces.

[bpdspell]

Mary Sunshine,

I've been in your shoes of desperation before and it's the most shame filled embarrassing feeling to be so rejected by someone who once who had us on the high stool of idealization. When my ex showed his true colors I felt like I had been dropped off the highest point of the Brooklyn Bridge. I was so devastated in the loss. It was like my ex had dropped me like a half-eaten sandwich in the middle of the street and all I could wish for was the earth to open up and swallow me whole. This is what it feels like to toss all dignity and self-respect out of the nearest window when we don't get that we're dealing with a person who is extremely sick in the head and heart.

It's recommended on BPD family that you seek some form of therapy. You will need this for catharsis as well as helping in understanding the toxic bond you have with your ex. I understand your feelings of addiction but you've got to come up with a way to stop contacting your ex. The more you contact him the more power and control you give him to hurt and invalidate you.

Read all you can about BPD, toxic bonds, and understand that your ex is living with a cruel disorder that gives him very little emotional capacity to feel empathy for others. The begging and pleading will only feed your ex's ego. It will not make him want you back and he will only use this to emotionally abuse you.

BPD breakups really hurt but you owe it to yourself to take a step back and recalibrate. See your ex for the person he truly is and not the person you wish he were. Ignoring you and invalidating your feelings are a far cry from a person who's nice, empathetic or considerate of your feelings.

Spell

[mary_sunshine]

Thanks again, Ironmanfalls. You are correct that nothing I say will impact him. He colors the world not how it is, but through some twisted lens that serves his purpose. I still don't know what that could be. But I will never be able to make him see how much I gave of myself, and how he has broken me down. He, in his mind, is always the victim, in all situations of his life.

Bpdspell- Thank you for such an eloquent description of the feeling of the fall from grace to desperation! I'm so sorry you felt like this too. No one should ever be made to go through such agony. And you're right, I do have to stop writing and begging. I just now came up with a great plan. I have decided that whenever I have this flood of feelings I need to share that I (illogically) think THIS time will make a difference: make him go back to treating me like he did in the beginning, make him see the error of his ways, etc. When my brain starts churning out this rubbish and I immediately want to write it all down, I'm not going to stop myself. But rather than writing a text or email, I will write it as a Word document. And I will allow myself to send it to him only AFTER a 24 hour waiting period. If after 24 hours I still think it is a good idea and I still want to send it, I can. But it is highly unlikely that would be the case. I always feel stupid after just a few hours, sometimes just a few minutes after sending. His behavior has brought out the most neurotic side of me, and I feel ashamed of that. If I slow myself down, instead of impulsively writing to him when the urge strikes, I think I will feel much better about everything. I even wrote little signs to remind me of the 24 hour waiting period and taped them around my house. As much as he put me through, I don't want to keep bothering him. I really don't. I would like to be able to let him ignore me and disappear from my life if that is indeed what he chooses to do. He has every right to do so.

[starshine]

Wow!  Great thread! 

My bet?  That if you start sending the emails to yourself, (like, set up a whole new account) and you start responding to them, you might really work out some of the crazy!        I like the idea of writing stuff out in a word document.  A digital diary- I have not written much during my healing process.  I think I am afraid that someone will get ahold of my writing and use it against me somehow.  That's left over from my FOO reading my stuff as a teen.  (Which also means I never really had much documentation of the crazy behavior... .and re-writing of history sometimes really made me feel nuts! )

That being said, feeling so low and unvalued is really painful.  Talk therapy is great.  So is massage.  I have found that healthy non-sexual therapeutic touch can be very healing, very reinforcing that I have to be in my body.  It helps me ground back into myself.   

You know, it helps me to "play the tape forward", when I think of contacting my ex. 

As much as I missed him desperately, living with that kind of toxicity was making me physically sick.

Now, I'm working on healing.

[GlennT]

How would you feel if everytime they hurt you bad,and they knew it, and you cried,and did'nt feel like you had a life at all, that they let out a big victory woo-hoo partying with their new one or friends, knowing about your pain and sadness. That is the reality of what they actually feel.  They want you to lose and hurt. They get their sick jollys from it believe me. Everytime you contact them, and they know,,yes... they do know you are hurting baaddd... .they feel great! Especially if their with a new one. Please do NC.  :'(

[winston72]

This is a terrific thread!  Each post was so helpful to me.  Mary_Sunshine, there is a wonderful kind of grace that flows from your pain and your candor, because it brings light and healing to so many others.  Thank you.

I could have written your original post over and over for a year or so.  I generated so much pain, shame and grief for myself.  For me, the gradual exit was the result of focusing on and living within my own feelings, desires, boundaries.  If it hurt me to contact her and I had come to the place that I did not want to hurt any longer... .than I did not contact her.  Sounds ridiculously simple, but it took me a long time to connect with myself.

I have copied below a section from one of your posts.  You make an interesting transition from your feelings to care-taking his feelings.  You do not need to and should not define his "rights".  It is not your place to "let him ignore me... .if that is what he chooses to do."  In this situation, and in any healthy relationship in the future, you should act in accordance with your needs, desires and boundaries... .of course informed by care, compassion and consideration of others, but not controlled by those impulses.  You owe it to yourself and to people in your life to take care of yourself and to be fully alive and "human" in the way that you care for yourself and protect your own life.  

As much as he put me through, I don't want to keep bothering him. I really don't. I would like to be able to let him ignore me and disappear from my life if that is indeed what he chooses to do. He has every right to do so.

Doesn't it make more sense to say, "As much as he put me through, I... .(something about yourself!... .I need to withdraw... .I am so angry with him... .I will never be able to trust him again... .I am hurt but willing to try again).  He hurts you... .and you are worried about bothering him?  It does not respect your own feelings, your hurt, and it does not hold him accountable for his actions.  Both things erode a healthy, respectful relationship.

[Clearmind]

Mary, can you begin to really re-think what love is what it isn’t? Respect, admiration and friendship are three key words to really think whether they exist.

Its also helpful to understand that we also have a past and that past dictates our triggers and reactions to perceived threats – it could be one of those times.

Using terms like “ALWAYS” usually also is closely followed by lack of boundaries and bending to please and walking on eggshells. We can rely on a disordered person to provide us with validation – we fix therefore we are of value. When they devalue us while we are fixing/helping we spiral.

We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

Mary, what is the hook with this man? Any ideas why you keep contacting him despite your better judgment? Turn the focus on you for a moment – cause the answer has nothing to do with him – he is who he is and we choose not to accept it.

To build self worth we need to first identify the reasons behind the negative self talk.

[mary_sunshine]

While I really appreciate all the great advice and comments, I have to say that I disagree with some of what's been said.

I do not feel my UBPD ex-so feels glad when he hurts me. In fact, I feel that it upsets him very much and he shuts down and doesn't want to face it. He is childlike and avoidant, but not gleeful.He just isn't a vindictive or sadistic type person.

I also stand by my ending comment that he has every right to cut ties and move on, and I have felt at times like a crazy stalker who won't leave him alone. He did leave for reasons he felt were valid, because our relationship was tumultuous due to his erratic moods and inability to control them. And yes, he is very selfish and likes to do exactly what he wants without any consideration for another person. He has lived alone so long, and is set in his ways. I honestly believe if I would just stop contacting him, I would never hear from him again. We weren't married, and although he said he wanted to be with me forever, he was unhappy, so yes, he had every "right" to leave. And yes, I do feel sometimes that I have been wrong to keep "bothering" him.

Of course the times when I have asked for closure, or said I should disappear from his life, he did say that's not what he wants. There was always this lingering possibility that we could get back together in time. But I think in all fairness to him, he is also confused. Bottom line he runs away when things are hard. But he knows I love him, and he is needy enough to be afraid to let that go completely.

As far as my rethinking what love is. I don't have any confusion there. My UBPD ex is someone I admire and respect and we were best friends. In the first months we were together we told each other all our deepest darkest secrets. That's why it is so unbelievable to me that he could walk away and not look back. But even though I loved him, and still do, he had the most uncanny ability to devalue me in the relationship, to put me last, and to hurt me in ways no one else ever has or ever could. And that is what I need to remember when I want to reach out to him.

[Ironmanrises]

While I really appreciate all the great advice and comments, I have to say that I disagree with some of what's been said.

I do not feel my UBPD ex-so feels glad when he hurts me. In fact, I feel that it upsets him very much and he shuts down and doesn't want to face it. He is childlike and avoidant, but not gleeful.He just isn't a vindictive or sadistic type person.

I also stand by my ending comment that he has every right to cut ties and move on, and I have felt at times like a crazy stalker who won't leave him alone. He did leave for reasons he felt were valid, because our relationship was tumultuous due to his erratic moods and inability to control them. And yes, he is very selfish and likes to do exactly what he wants without any consideration for another person. He has lived alone so long, and is set in his ways. I honestly believe if I would just stop contacting him, I would never hear from him again. We weren't married, and although he said he wanted to be with me forever, he was unhappy, so yes, he had every "right" to leave. And yes, I do feel sometimes that I have been wrong to keep "bothering" him.

Of course the times when I have asked for closure, or said I should disappear from his life, he did say that's not what he wants. There was always this lingering possibility that we could get back together in time. But I think in all fairness to him, he is also confused. Bottom line he runs away when things are hard. But he knows I love him, and he is needy enough to be afraid to let that go completely.

As far as my rethinking what love is. I don't have any confusion there. My UBPD ex is someone I admire and respect and we were best friends. In the first months we were together we told each other all our deepest darkest secrets. That's why it is so unbelievable to me that he could walk away and not look back. But even though I loved him, and still do, he had the most uncanny ability to devalue me in the relationship, to put me last, and to hurt me in ways no one else ever has or ever could. And that is what I need to remember when I want to reach out to him.

In bold.

That is a forewarning of future recycles.

That is a glimpse of further hurt you will experience... .

If/when your ex returns.

More times then not... .

They do return.

To restart the cycle of hell.

With the end goal of hurting the non.

Read some of the older accounts on here.

You will see the same pattern play out... .

And each time... .

The non... .

Is further destroyed in the process.

Please stay NC.

It is for your well being.

[Clearmind]

mary_sunshine, everyone has different views based on their experience and it's quite natural to not agree with all that is written. We don't know you or your husband.

The leaving board is for detaching and it really is a process - we need to take it within our own stride as to how long that process takes - no one can tell you move on when you are not ready.

What path do you see yourself on over the few months? In what direction would you like to head?  

You mention a loss of dignity and value - how you begin to regain your footing?

[mary_sunshine]

Clearmind, I do appreciate everyone's thoughts, even the ones that do not necessarily apply to me and my situation. A person is more than their disorder, and although I do believe my ex suffers from BPD, it is not a cookie cutter presentation. I do think he has a good heart, and I do think he left because he was making us both unhappy. But did I beg him to get help? Yes. Was he unwilling to get help? Yes. Do I feel like I should have meant more to him if he loved me as he said? Yes.

So although I am here because I believe ending this relationship is the only healthy answer for me, I don't want to give the impression that my ex was a horrible person, a cheat, or a psychopath. He is none of those things. He is someone who is unable to regulate his emotions, is very self-centered, and has never been able to achieve true intimacy for a sustained period of time. In many ways, he is like a small child, and in many ways I feel very sad for him. But I do care about myself, and I do not want to allow him to continue hurting me.

[Clearmind]

A person is more than their disorder, and although I do believe my ex suffers from BPD, it is not a cookie cutter presentation.

Totally agree and its great you see it that way!

I do think he has a good heart, and I do think he left because he was making us both unhappy. But did I beg him to get help? Yes. Was he unwilling to get help? Yes. Do I feel like I should have meant more to him if he loved me as he said? Yes.

My ex has a great heart to - it was just unfortunate that the two of us together were not a good combination - we triggered one another.

Its hard for me to accept that while my ex knows he needs help - he needs to seek it out himself. That is the point that I had to leave the relationship.

But I do care about myself, and I do not want to allow him to continue hurting me.

[Jbt857]

I don't know what it's going to take for me to realize that I have to stop contacting my UBPD ex-so. My mind knows a million ways he hurts me, but my heart keeps right on loving him and wanting him back. The worst part is I feel demeaned and humiliated for begging and contacting him over and over, when he ignores me. I get so upset and I write the stupidest emails-- long rambling love letters reminding him of how special we were together and of the good times and trying to convince him I could do better. ME! The one who was ALWAYS good to him, who did everything in the world to make things better, who paid for us to go to counseling, who was ALWAYS emotionally and physically available. I tell him I will do better! Make things nicer for him. Be gentler so he won't get so upset. And he often will respond with a one sentence email saying he doesn't feel good and all this is too overwhelming to talk about. When I have asked if he's stopped loving me, he always says he loves me just like always. I think that is what keeps me hooked. He claims he is just scared. But this has gone on for months, and he seems to be doing just fine moving ahead with his life and socializing with other people. I just feel so stupid for clinging on and begging. I was the person everyone thought he was lucky to have! I was on a pedestal. And now I feel like a complete joke. I feel that I have been reduced in his eyes to the lowliest person. And I feel like the lowliest person.

Oh Mary,

I did that too. I was with my BPDexh nearly 10 years. Even when I caught him cheating online when I was working 70 hours a week to support us both, because his work as a tradesman was patchy (eg, he wasn't proactively pursuing it) it was my fault.

His family and friends thought he hit the jackpot with me. Not being modest, he did. I'm very successful, very educated, and very loving and caring. (Of course I have my faults too). He was a poor immigrant. I helped him educate himself, paid for him to travel the world with me, heck, he drove my brand new Mercedes most days - more than I did.

Once, I was his queen. That wore off pretty fast.

Now he's with someone who (get this) is 'really good to him' - not like me. All that, everything I did, everything I gave - it's forgotten already.

I begged him not to be so awful. He'd take of his wedding ring, stay out all night and tell me he was going to cheat on me. Out of nothing, he'd create a fight. Lying in bed, ready to sleep, he'd pick a fight from nothing. (And it was nothing). Just an excuse for more bad behaviour so he could feel better about himself by demeaning me.

And yet, I still love him in some ___ed up way. I don't like him. At all. I see his disorder. I'm NC with him. But I'm not NC at the stage where I don't care. I sunk lower than I ever dreamed in terms of trying to 'fix' my marriage. But even though he's with someone else, if he came back crying and begging, I can't say I'd show him the door. I like to think I would now. I hope I would. But I couldn't promise that I would.

To the outside world, I'm this fierce, feisty, successful career woman with a great life. I'd never take that crap off anyone in my professional life. Period. In my head, I make excuses *because* he's my husband. The truth (when I'm objective enough to see it) is that because he's my husband (almost divorced) - there's no way either of us should have ever allowed or enabled any of that to happen. That it did = dysfunctional. On both sides.

Pick yourself up. Dust yourself down. Don't let this define you.

[eeyore]

So although I am here because I believe ending this relationship is the only healthy answer for me, I don't want to give the impression that my ex was a horrible person, a cheat, or a psychopath. He is none of those things. He is someone who is unable to regulate his emotions, is very self-centered, and has never been able to achieve true intimacy for a sustained period of time. In many ways, he is like a small child, and in many ways I feel very sad for him. But I do care about myself, and I do not want to allow him to continue hurting me.

Similarly mine never cheated on me, was high functioning, and was in a prior relationship for 17 years.  But true intimacy, I don't think in all those years he was capable of true intimacy.  It was all intimidation and manipulation. 

[happylogist]

mary_sunshine,

do you think that he has also strong traits of Avoidant Personality Disorder?

I read this sentence of your post and it made me think that not many uBPDs manage to make a conscious choice to live alone without having a replacement ready... .

He has lived alone so long, and is set in his ways

I know there is not much in your post that is "diagnostic" enough, and this is no way a professional diagnosis, but it might help for you to realize in this case also at this moment your way of  reaching out to him is "ineffective".

[Ironmanrises]

mary_sunshine,

do you think that he has also strong traits of Avoidant Personality Disorder?

I read this sentence of your post and it made me think that not many uBPDs manage to make a conscious choice to live alone without having a replacement ready... .

He has lived alone so long, and is set in his ways

I know there is not much in your post that is "diagnostic" enough, and this is no way a professional diagnosis, but it might help for you to realize in this case also at this moment your way of  reaching out to him is "ineffective".

In bold.

Not all PwBPD leave you for another replacement in the sense of romantic partner... .

The emotional needs/ validation they were getting from you... .

They can also replace that with friends, family members... .

[happylogist]

Ironmanfalls,

My comment was not about him leaving Mary_sunshine, but as she mentioned in her post and assuming I understood her correctly about him being alone (read = not with someone) for a long prior to meeting her.   

[curlybob]

Im no pro to this I can only use my own experience with 1 BPD person. My understanding for me was that I saw there vulnerability and needyness early on. And a part of you is pleased because your cutting the crap and getting right to it, you feel comfortable showing your vulnerability. Which in theory would make a great connection with both of you.

And then what should happen is that a trust boundary develop and a protection to one another is formed.

But what happens is you build that bubble of protection for them and more... .yet they see the vulnerbility in you as something to be exploited which in turn is damaging non BPD because the trust element hasn't been reciprocated.

I believe everybody is capable of love and I believe he does love you. But those relationship boundaries that should develop don't develop and that is why you hurt and they don't see it.

In am ideal world the only way you could stay is to be soo thick skinned and have so much confidence in yourself that you could accept they can't build the boundaries of the relationship.

Its just so hard, I am sorry that is what you havebeen going through good luck 

[curlybob]

Sorry... .I meant to add... (Again my experience is only of 1 BPD individual)... .

Take out the equation of Love and emotion and just ask yourself what values you require from not this relationship but generally speaking A relationship.

Again speaking from my individual experience at that point in the relationship is where all those trust, respect, care, kindness boundaries should be developing and Its only 1 person the Non BPD who is working on those boundaries, and I honestly believe the BPD individual cannot comprehend why they need to, or actually see the need to do the same back.

And if the BPD individual could identify those boundaries but still had the rages and the cycles there would be more success stories of BPD relationships. We can do it automatically without thinking it is a learned process for us.

But somewhere for them it hasn't been learned therefore not necessary.

Until Psychologists can really identify those exact crucial moments in childhood where at those points a child identifies boundaries of trust and respect and can apply them, to then use that knowledge for BPD adults and create a learning process for them so that boundaries could form part of their own thought processes. That is when true growth can occur.

I think there is an attachment too distorted emotional thinking and failure in learned processes. And I think if the Learned process was combated and could achieve great success in BPD adults there would be significant improvement in a BPD and a non BPD intimate relationship.

Sorry for rambling