I am the ex mil of a BPD woman

[mother in law]

I am the ex mil of a BPD Asian woman. While ethnicity should not come into the BPD equation I have been asked 3 times in the last 2 Weeks if I thought my xdil behaviour was homesickness and cultural. My answer had always been no she had mental health issues but I want to say NO she is and had been verbally emotionally and physically abusive to her parents and her husband (my son) and is verbally and

emotionally abusive to my gd. I know there is probably no point inexplaining exactly what had happened in the last 10 years to others as it sounds like an unbelievable horror story but venting it here makes feel a little better! Do others ever feel like this?

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, mother in law... .I'm truly sorry for all the trauma and pain your family is suffering with your ex-D-I-L; it's so sad and difficult when family members are estranged and/or living with fear of the next blow-up. I'm so sorry for your son and granddaughter; it's got to be so hard dealing with all of that!

I am also the M-I-L to a D-I-L who is of a different country than our family (though she and my son are happily married; her BPD behaviors are directed usually at myself, my husband, and my other son who lives with us). She has from time to time (maybe once/year? Some years more often) initiated no contact or at least an edgy alienation of herself and my son from the 3 of us, who live in the family home about 5 hours away from them.

Before learning about BPD from this site, about 6 months ago, I'd always attributed her actions and behaviors to the cultural differences; she'd even at times mention that the feelings she had about things--that caused the alienation--were "normal" in her country, and were correct as compared to the feelings our family (including her husband, actually) had. We've been navigating this "cultural difference" for quite a few years now, and when other extended family members and people who knew us had questions regarding some strange occurrences with her relationship with us, we did always refer to the cultural differences. What did we know? We had no other explanation.

Now that I've learned about BPD, I truly believe that the problems are not cultural, but from a personality disorder that she probably has (she is undiagnosed). Every book I've read (from "Stop Walking on Eggshells" to "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" describes her to a T, as a high-functioning Borderline. Would she be diagnosed? I don't know... .but, now that I understand the emotions behind the behaviors, and use the validation and S.E.T. and Radical Acceptance techniques I've learned from those books, and on this site, our relationship with her is so much better!

I cannot tell you how much things have changed since my first "Acceptance-Acknowledgment Declaration" email to her about 5 months ago, addressing specific issues that my reply was demanded of, using the formula and insights gained from Valerie Porr's "Understand BPD" (page 331), and all of the validation and S.E.T. techniques learned from this site. We do know that when her relationship with her is smooth and happy, it helps my son (her husband) out, too. Win/win   

[louise 716]

Omg ... .I feel like I'm looking in the mirror. My dil also is from another country and we thought for years what we were witnessing was a cultural thing. Finally figured out 9 mo ago it was NOT a cultural thing it was a BPD thing!

To "ex mother in law", the first thing that comes to mind is "congratulations!" I'm sure both of you ladies understand why I write that.

[mother in law]

Thank you both for your answers, while it is horrible to know others are experiencing this garbage it is kind of nice to know I am not alone. I guess the one shining light in all of this is that our son who is a very gentle soul has never rejected us on her behalf. The ex DiL is till VERY troublesome and nasty. She has always hated me, I think in hindsight cause I was a reasonably successful working woman (she has never had any desire or will to work) and is possibly threatened by me (goodness knows why as I have come through the ranks also).

I now feel like saying to people who obviously think we are hard on her that if throwing thermos flasks full of boiling tea at people, locking your husband in a room for 3 hours at a time (frequently) and telling him repeatedly that he is useless (until he eventually cries), not talking or participating in family life for up to 8 days at a time, punching and hitting her parents and husband, raging endlessly if things did not suit her, not attending family functions and sometimes her daughters functions, isolating him from his friends, gaslighting him and I (all horrible and hurtful lies)  (to name just a few things) is cultural then yes I agree, but it is insulting to her fellow country members. You can see how over it I am and one day I will get up the courage to say it as it is to some of these people! However I do feel much better to have said it here! Do either of you have people/friends who say that perhaps it is cultural and if so what do you say?

Really we are not horrible people we have given her free holidays, lots of babysitting (we love and worry about our granddaughter), free accommodation for a year, lovely gifts and welcomed her into our house when she 1st came to this country (not America). Her family are very nice and were very welcoming to us and our son when he lived in their country. I have no answers to the whole problem except to try to protect our granddaughter who is still exposed to her mother's behaviour and to advise our son who is still reeling from the last 12 years. Thank you for listening and I wish you both well.

[louise 716]

mother in law,

It is horrible to know we aren't alone, isn't it?

Regarding your ex DIL who is troublesome and nasty ... .like my husband says "don't shake a stick at a mad dog."

I think with women like this it's more a case of that we are our son's mothers ... .it's as simple as that.  Years ago my dil said to me "i'm not trying to take your son away" ... .oh no you say?

My SIL said my DIL is "immature" ... .now I say "it is not simply a case of immaturity. She has a serious mental health issue."  Sometimes I have to even add in the part about living it is a whole other story.

For years we tried to cut DIL some slack saying it was a "cultural" thing, but we finally woke up and smelled the coffee.

[mother in law]

Thank you once again I feel so much better for having explained the situation in this forum. I laughed at your husbands saying don't shake a stick at a mad dog and believe me we have learned not to do that. We to cut lots of slack it took a separation and divorce for us to really understand the situation.  Luckily although he is like a person with PTSD he is slowly coming right so there is light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck and thank you for understanding.

[louise 716]

mother in law,

I hope someday, I am able to be an ex MIL to the uBPD DIL I have at the moment. Professionals tell me this situation "won't last." My prayer for son and uBPD is that together they are not able to make any children. We are not in their life now and I know that will not change with children in the picture.

We are hopeful, eventually, our DIL will need to move on to another energy supply since we are trying hard not to provide any source of fuel for her. And actually, as the days turn into weeks, months, and soon to be a year with virtually NC with DIL, it's super easy to not have contact with her. It's hard, but none of us, per his request, initiate contact with son.

I thought I read somewhere, it is not uncommon for BPD to have affairs. That will/would be devastating to son and I can't even go down the path of those ramifications for him.

[Krudula]

Hi mil

Sounds so familiar, you are certainly not the only one in this situation.

We too have a uDIL, who has walked out on her children and husband (our nonDPBson)

The situation is still quite recent in its development of separation, but we haven't seen her for years, her choice, she didn't want any contact. It almost change from one day to the next. We tried to find out what was bothering her, or did we offend in some way, but the more we tried the angrier and volatile she became. We kept contact with our son but not as often as we would have liked, we said we wouldn 't rock the boat and put any pressure on him. Anyway we are now seeing more of each other in the last few months than we have done since they got married. There are two lovely grandchildren involved and our son is caring for them, while mum is living the highlife at the moment.

We are so pleased that we have kept the contact with him, for himself but also for the grkiddos.

Our other son has ended a relationship some time ago with his now ex,  who has been dx with BPD. They have a lovely child, who now lives with us with his dad. there is plenty of drama to deal with, almost on a daily basis, as the mother comes to visit, or picks up her son for overnight stays. She is in complete denial of her (twice) diagnosis and the blame for everything lies always elsewhere. I have been putting firm boundaries in place concerning her behaviour, but I can tell you it has not been an easy road.

Keep loving your son, isolation is a killer for those who live with BPDers.

Hang in there 

[survivor123]

BPD is BPD.  Unfortunately, it is everywhere.  My mother is Korean and has undiagnosed BPD with Narcissistic features.  Have not seen her since 1997 and have no regrets.  But make no mistake about it, she is definitely BPD and clearly falls under the descriptions of the "Witch" and "Queen" subtypes of the BPD mother.  I would imagine even in the unlikely event she seek help, unless she were seeing a highly trained/skilled BPD professional, her disturbing symptoms could lazily be written off as "cultural."  I had one inept therapist suggest to me that perhaps she was simply an overzealous "tiger mom."  LOL.

[mil2bpd]

Hello fellow MILs. I've not been on the board in quite awhile but find myself at home on a rainy Sat. night for a change. And a lot has indeed changed since I was last here back when this shockingly hit my husband and me like a ton of bricks in June of this year.

Our DIL, who we embraced and joyfully welcomed into family 4 years ago, is also a different race/culture/religion; some of the elements my son initially found so exotic. She readily accepted our faith, was enamored of our nuclear family as she never had one and expressed her gratefulness on numerous occasions. We were with our son and DIL when our GS was born, they accompanied us on a family vacation in the spring; we thought everything was fairly idyllic. I had seen some cracks in the foundation - DIL never wanted to be seen as less than perfect, would often stretch the truth, started to become much more involved with her mother (who has some definite mental issues) with whom she'd always had a strained relationship and then I started to feel some distance from her -- which all came to a head during a family meeting we agreed to have in June following an "accidental" email she had sent me intended, she claimed, for someone else.  Personally, I don't buy into such so-called accidents, and when she was here I let her know that.

The discussion was calm but I set my boundaries clearly with her. That as the last contact we had with her. Fortunately, it was not the last we had with our son - who subsequently told us of the issues he'd been having with her, which was far worse than we'd suspected. After spending a month with us, where our GS would come on weekends, DS decided to give it a solid try with DIL.  I supported his decision. He was aware of my concerns about BPD and the work involved in therapy; he was willing to do what it took and I expressed my understanding of his desire to do so. Of course I was apprehensive but I have confidence in my son's intelligence and self-confidence. If he felt his wife was not capable of making the changes required to begin a path of self-reflection and acceptance of her own uncomfortable feelings, I knew he'd realize in time this was not a situation that could be salvaged. And as much as he wanted to raise his own child in a two parent family as he had been, he knew that raising a child in a tense home was not a healthy alternative.

I've not asked too many questions. But I've come to learn that counseling was not successful. He realizes this is not the life for him. Personally, I have to say I am pleased with his decision - his life would likely have been miserable had he chosen to stay. And our relationship with him would likely have gotten more strained as well. I can only hope that we maintain a healthy, close and loving relationship with our dGS as we have from the day he was born. He means the world to us.

And, as strange as this sounds, my DIL will always have a special place in my heart as well. For a time, she was like a daughter to me. I tried to give her some of what had been missing in her life. But I can never give her the self-confidence and self-respect she has so clearly been lacking since the time of her childhood. I can't recreate something that had never been created.  I can't totally grieve that which was never there to have been lost. She was never a whole person in that sense; I got to know the illusion; and that, in a very real sense, is contributing to the loss of the DIL I'm grieving as the marriage dissolves.

I'm not sure if this is ending - or if it's only beginning. Child custody and rearing is not going to be easy. I'm trying to set my sights on living in the moment, and giving my precious GS all the love in my heart, so for what memories he does carry of his own childhood, I hope he always carries that.

Best to all of you as you work on your relationships with your DS's, DILs, GC and future GC,

MIL

[Pilpel]

MIL,

Interesting about your DIL.  My uSIL is also from another country. She's Russian.  And I've heard that, too, where people wonder if it's a cultural difference.  There might be some cultural difference.  But I've met SIL's parents and sister, and I really like them.  Not only are they nothing like her, but they're very open and honest about how difficult she is.  In his work, my husband has interacted with people from all sorts of cultures, and he's experienced the Russians to be pretty abrassive.  My SIL is also pretty shameless about asking my mom to promise her things in her will.  I don't know if that's sort of a cultural thing.  In my culture, it would be shameful to look at another person's things and look foward to owning those things when they die.  I have NEVER looked at my MIL and FIL's things and wondered what would some day be mine when they died.  And if I ever had a DIL that did that to me, I'd be horrified and would tell her to mind her own things. 

I talked to someone who knew a Russian who did something similar.   But I've known many Russians who were very nice. And like I said, SIL's family is nothing like her.  SIL is very religiously rigid, controlling, always expects people to serve her, alternates between waif queen witch.  Her sister is the complete opposite of her --she's thoughtful, hospitable, and has a very modern, easy-going sensibility.  SIL's sister and parents are the few people in the world that don't bother walking on eggshells around her.   

[mil2bpd]

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this, Pilpel. Personally, I think when dealing with BPD it really doesn't have a thing to do with religion, race, national origin. It's a personality/behavioral/mental health disorder that can and does strike anyone regardless of background.  I've read comments that a relative wouldn't do this or that because of their religious background and then gone on to read that a person of this or that background has done that very thing. In fact, there was a recent article in Psychology Today written by an anonymous author who is very active in their faith and was almost defiant about the acts that she committed that were in direct opposition to the tenants of her religion. Perhaps it's simply part of this disorder those who suffer from it share - they cannot or will not see what they are doing as "wrong" or "bad" and can find ways to justify their behaviors that others, even within their own families, would find offensive but have put up with it for so long.  I can't say - I don't know what goes on behind closed doors or in other people's lives. I know I was surprised to learn how my DIL had treated my son while she had been condemning some of her friends for the very things she herself had apparently been engaging in.

That said, there certainly are cultural differences and norms; i.e. it's common to kiss after even informal greetings in some South American countries like Argentina but if one to do that in a Buddhist country it would be a grievous error. So certainly there are those differences. The ones many of us encountered, from what I've read, are generally more subtle. It's usually the ones of a small perceived slight that have caught us off guard, or ones that have gradually built up leading to the the son- or daughter-in-laws creating such a wedge between families. The fact that two people may come from such disparate backgrounds probably pulls in a additional marital obstacle that makes even the strongest of bonds a bit more challenging - it's simply harder to remain united when backgrounds have been so diverse in terms not only of religion, but of socioeconomic status, societal customs, family dynamics and ethical mores.

I understand your concerns and the need for you to try to understand your SIL. I totally get it. It's hard to comprehend the impact of BPD as well as the other components piling on top of it.

But to clarify: I hope the slant of my post didn't take on the additional sub-text that I fault my DIL's differing religion, culture or race as the cause per se of this rift. Again, it's not so much that aspect -- as many such marriages do thrive -- as it's been the surprising but very real surfacing of some BPD traits that have caused some heavy examination of my son's part to lead him to his ultimate conclusion to not continue his marriage in this manner. 

I hope, someday, to somehow communicate a healthier closure with my DIL but I do realize that certainly now is not the time - and I'm remaining open as to any timing in the future as to when... .if ever... .that may be. If anyone has ever achieved such a conclusion, I'd be anxious to hear.

MIL